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QB Lamar Jackson, BAL


massraider

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He has silenced the “he can’t throw” and “he can’t run an nfl offense” critics. The sad part is at some point he will get hurt because every NFL player gets hurt and all those “he can’t hold up physically” critics will come out. The fact for fantasy is he could get hurt and never play another NFL season and every dynasty players already got a great ROI on their Lamar pick.

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3 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Zach smith, always a class act...

That's wretched. To Tweet that is sort of violative of private conversations had between adults. Zach Smith needs to grow up. The other guy was wrong and made a mistake. He doesn't need to mea culpa a private conversation over the inevitable Twitter mob sure to follow. People ought to know better.

5 hours ago, The_Man said:

Did a little more research on this - Lamar's passer rating over the last 8 games is 130.9. I've found only 3 other QBs who ever put up a QB rating of more than 130 during any 8-game stretch.

Brady, 2007 - in Games 1-8 and 3-10
Manning, 2004 - Games 6-13
Montana, 1989 - Games 3-10, 5-12, and 6-13

Those are all regarded among the greatest QB seasons of all time. If you expand the QB rating to 125 over an 8-game stretch, you get a lot more

Rodgers in 2011, Games 1-8
Brees last year from Games 3-10 and also Wilson last year, Games 5-12
Steve Young in 94 and Brady in 2010
and then two big surprises to me: Kirk Cousins the last 8 games of 2015 and Nick Foles the last 8 games of 2013

10 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

He has silenced the “he can’t throw” and “he can’t run an nfl offense” critics. The sad part is at some point he will get hurt because every NFL player gets hurt and all those “he can’t hold up physically” critics will come out. The fact for fantasy is he could get hurt and never play another NFL season and every dynasty players already got a great ROI on their Lamar pick.

Fascinating stuff, The_Man. I'm having trouble formatting here, so I'll just leave it at that. 

And to ilov80s, yup. But a caveat to that: I think the whole "he can't do that forever" critics have a much better leg to stand on. He just won't be to handle it, IMO. That criticism isn't a dog whistle for everything we want to step around when we talk about "throwing" or "running an offense" criticisms. It's not couched remotely in the human bias realm of intelligence, skill or racism, but in actual observance of physical phenomena. That hit he took in the Jets game at the eight yard line in the second quarter was bone-shattering, and it was just another play in the life of Lamar.  To hold race constant: I can't imagine CMC at RB can hold up at his rate of usage, either, and worry about it just as much. I just hope they both get theirs before it catches up with them (I mean money as "theirs").

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53 minutes ago, rockaction said:

That's wretched. To Tweet that is sort of violative of private conversations had between adults. Zach Smith needs to grow up. The other guy was wrong and made a mistake. He doesn't need to mea culpa a private conversation over the inevitable Twitter mob sure to follow. People ought to know better.

Fascinating stuff, The_Man. I'm having trouble formatting here, so I'll just leave it at that. 

And to ilov80s, yup. But a caveat to that: I think the whole "he can't do that forever" critics have a much better leg to stand on. He just won't be to handle it, IMO. That criticism isn't a dog whistle for everything we want to step around when we talk about "throwing" or "running an offense" criticisms. It's not couched remotely in the human bias realm of intelligence, skill or racism, but in actual observance of physical phenomena. That hit he took in the Jets game at the eight yard line in the second quarter was bone-shattering, and it was just another play in the life of Lamar.  To hold race constant: I can't imagine CMC at RB can hold up at his rate of usage, either, and worry about it just as much. I just hope they both get theirs before it catches up with them (I mean money as "theirs").

I don't think he can do it for as long as someone like Brees or Brady. The injury rate for RB is higher than QB so he does have an added risk. I am not sure how much that difference matters given the small sample size of NFL seasons but it does have some effect. So the end result will be based on what kind of injuries he gets, how well he trains to stay in top shape, his genetic ability to age and recover well, effectiveness of the medical care, etc. There are guys like Lesean McCoy, Frank Gore, Curtis Martin, etc. who are able to retain their juice for 10 or so seasons and even into their 30s retained NFL RB caliber athleticism. They all surely took a ton more physical punishment that Jackson does and are smaller (thicker frames) players than Jackson.  The other factor we can't account for is how much he will continue to develop as a passer. In a couple years, we might him rushing more like 80-100 times instead of 178 and replacing those rushes with more passes. I would say if Lamar can maintain even average starting QB NFL passing ability and has the athleticism of 31 year old Lesean McCoy, than I don't see why he can't still be a very good QB for fantasy and real life until he at least 32-33. 

As for CMC, IDK. He looks well built, seems to be in absolute peak shape, has no signs yet of any degenerative issues. Marshall Faulk played until he was 32 and at age 30 had 1100 yards and 11 TDs. During Faulk's prime, he was averaging 360 touches a game which is right in line with what CMC is averaging. 

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26 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I don't think he can do it for as long as someone like Brees or Brady. The injury rate for RB is higher than QB so he does have an added risk. I am not sure how much that difference matters given the small sample size of NFL seasons but it does have some effect. So the end result will be based on what kind of injuries he gets, how well he trains to stay in top shape, his genetic ability to age and recover well, effectiveness of the medical care, etc. There are guys like Lesean McCoy, Frank Gore, Curtis Martin, etc. who are able to retain their juice for 10 or so seasons and even into their 30s retained NFL RB caliber athleticism. They all surely took a ton more physical punishment that Jackson does and are smaller (thicker frames) players than Jackson.  The other factor we can't account for is how much he will continue to develop as a passer. In a couple years, we might him rushing more like 80-100 times instead of 178 and replacing those rushes with more passes. I would say if Lamar can maintain even average starting QB NFL passing ability and has the athleticism of 31 year old Lesean McCoy, than I don't see why he can't still be a very good QB for fantasy and real life until he at least 32-33.

This is all very true. I'm just saying that physically being able to succeed out of the pocket for that long is something I'm dubious about, and that it has nothing to do with skin color. That's really the nub of it. So many dog whistles in the world it's hard to get past the real and the true for what is biased. Every time I hear "can't read the field" and problems with the aerial game for a quarterback who is a person of color, I hear those old shades. They were around when I was a kid and Warren Moon was relegated to the CFL. Just insane. Times are different, but to step around the elephant in the room here is a mistake that leads to coded words and coded concepts.

That's all, really.  

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

This is all very true. I'm just saying that physically being able to succeed out of the pocket for that long is something I'm dubious about, and that it has nothing to do with skin color. That's really the nub of it. So many dog whistles in the world it's hard to get past the real and the true for what is biased. Every time I hear "can't read the field" and problems with the aerial game for a quarterback who is a person of color, I hear those old shades. They were around when I was a kid and Warren Moon was relegated to the CFL. Just insane. Times are different, but to step around the elephant in the room here is a mistake that leads to coded words and coded concepts.

That's all, really.  

Like this lady named Karen who wrote a letter critical of Lamar to the Baltimore Sun where she said instead of buying watches for his offensive linemen, Lamar should have given the money to charity. 

Quote

 

It just flaunts the amount of money they make and don’t know what to do with. Sorry, Lamar, I am not such a big fan now.

Karen Price

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/readers-respond/bs-ed-rr-jackson-rolex-20191226-ijsooyn64fgrtp2vmb66myer6i-story.html

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8 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Like this lady named Karen who wrote a letter critical of Lamar to the Baltimore Sun where she said instead of buying watches for his offensive linemen, Lamar should have given the money to charity. 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/readers-respond/bs-ed-rr-jackson-rolex-20191226-ijsooyn64fgrtp2vmb66myer6i-story.html

Has there even been a child named Karen or are they all just born mid 40s soccer moms finding things to complain about? Get back in your minivan and stay in your lane Karen.

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13 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

Has there even been a child named Karen or are they all just born mid 40s soccer moms finding things to complain about? Get back in your minivan and stay in your lane Karen.

My serious ex-girlfriend twenty years ago was named Karen. I loved her. In retrospect, she was a vegan with scoldy sort of typical leftist trope complaints about the world. So yeah, about that. Nice observation.

eta* You'll note there are no songs about girls named Karen, aside from a Beach Boys' television intro that lasted thirty seconds and wound up on TeeVee Toons (I know, believe me, I tried to to find one). So yeah, again, not a name you're noticing until there's a complaint being lodged in your housing association about the ornaments you've hung or something. 

Unless you're Karen O. of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Then all bets are off. That's a wild one. 

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21 minutes ago, rockaction said:

My serious ex-girlfriend twenty years ago was named Karen. I loved her. In retrospect, she was a vegan with scoldy sort of typical leftist trope complaints about the world. So yeah, about that. Nice observation.

eta* You'll note there are no songs about girls named Karen, aside from a Beach Boys' television intro that lasted thirty seconds and wound up on TeeVee Toons (I know, believe me, I tried to to find one). So yeah, again, not a name you're noticing until there's a complaint being lodged in your housing association about the ornaments you've hung or something. 

Unless you're Karen O. of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Then all bets are off. That's a wild one. 

The memes exist for a reason.
 

“Excuse me I’d like to speak to the manager”

sincerely every Karen ever

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28 minutes ago, Faust said:

"After knocking Tom Brady and the defending champion New England Patriots out of the playoffs, the Tennessee Titans face what might be a tougher task: slowing down quarterback Lamar Jackson and the Baltimore Ravens' offense, which leads the league at 33.2 points per game."

Hmm, might it be a tougher task to slow the offense that crushed the NFL's 41-year-old single-season rushing record and has a QB who posted a 130 passer rating over his last 8 games? Pretty bold statement

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2 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

Yep my facebook is blowing up with how overrated he is. Haters out in full force

Well, I think those who were declaring him the best QB in the league already did overrate him, but I think it's fair to say that there is still much improvement that can be made by Jackson as a passer, and I was a little concerned about his body language tonight.  Smiling and laughing after throwing a pick on your first possession is a bad look, and he seemed to be annoyed with teammates way too often tonight.  He is a special talent for sure, and if he can improve on those things, he could be scary good. 

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Quote

Lamar Jackson completed 31-of-59 passes for 365 yards, one touchdown, and two picks, adding 20 carries for 143 yards on the ground in Baltimore's Divisional Round loss to the Titans.

Jackson pieced together one of the all-time great regular seasons in just his second year in the league, garnering a first-team All-Pro selection and becoming the first player in league history to throw for 3,000 yards and rush for another 1,000. Jackson not only broke Michael Vick’s single-season rushing mark (1,039) for a quarterback with 1,206 yards on the ground, the 23-year-old did so in the same year he led the league with 36 touchdown passes through the air. It’s not all bad news as the Ravens, barring a drastic chain of events, will return all 11 starters on offense and both OC Greg Roman and DC Don Martindale for another shot at history. Having said that, there’s a terrific chance Jackson becomes the first NFL MVP to lose his first playoff game since Adrian Peterson did so in 2012. There will be loads of drivel shouted about Jackson’s five turnovers and 0-2 record in the postseason this spring, but none of it should discount the Ravens' football renaissance in 2019.

Jan 12, 2020, 1:06 AM ET

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

His floor for fantasy is high because of the rushing. If he cant win football games that can become an issue of job security far down the road, but the future for fantasy looks bright. 

After a season where they wen 14-2, I don't think anyone in the Ravens organziation is worrying about Lamar being able to win games

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8 hours ago, shadyridr said:

Prepare to be bored until September

Probably was the last NFL game I will watch until September. With the Saints and now Ravens out, I am struggling to find something interesting. 

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15 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

His floor for fantasy is high because of the rushing. If he cant win football games that can become an issue of job security far down the road, but the future for fantasy looks bright. 

🙄 He's - what? - 20-4 as a starter. I think his job security isn't an issue.

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5 hours ago, Leroy Hoard said:

500 total yards. As someone who has him in a keeper league, I hope all his future bad days are that awful.

I love how the haters are like Lamar played awful or he struggled yet he put up massive numbers.  Dude can’t do it all himself.  He needs a dependable possession wr that’s for sure.  But throwing 59 times was never a recipe for success.  He will be fine and he played well for his first postseason action.

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16 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

I love how the haters are like Lamar played awful or he struggled yet he put up massive numbers.  Dude can’t do it all himself.  He needs a dependable possession wr that’s for sure.  But throwing 59 times was never a recipe for success.  He will be fine and he played well for his first postseason action.

Last night was not his first postseason action.  It was a good game by fantasy standards, despite the three turnovers, but I am not sure how anyone could have watched that and think he played well.  In the playoffs, you have to finish possessions, and he was unable to do so all night (1 TD, 2 field goals, several big 4th down failures, etc.).  Sure, he threw for a lot of yards, but many would call those empty, inefficient yards; it took him nearly 60 attempts, he barely cracked 6 YPA, and had 3 times as many turnovers as touchdowns. 

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6 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Last night was not his first postseason action.  It was a good game by fantasy standards, despite the three turnovers, but I am not sure how anyone could have watched that and think he played well.  In the playoffs, you have to finish possessions, and he was unable to do so all night (1 TD, 2 field goals, several big 4th down failures, etc.).  Sure, he threw for a lot of yards, but many would call those empty, inefficient yards; it took him nearly 60 attempts, he barely cracked 6 YPA, and had 3 times as many turnovers as touchdowns. 

All of this. The Ravens as a whole (including coaching) were awful last night, and Lamar was off on a bunch of his passes. He had a few nice runs, but he played poorly and they got beat. 

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2 minutes ago, Man In The Box said:

All of this. The Ravens as a whole (including coaching) were awful last night, and Lamar was off on a bunch of his passes. He had a few nice runs, but he played poorly and they got beat. 

The whole team stunk. Bad throws by Lamar, receivers dropping passes, etc. Ingram and Andrews hurt, then more WRs hurt as the game went on. Balitmore definitely needs to add some help as WR. 

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1 minute ago, Dr. Dan said:

playoff games 

I knew people would focus on the wrong point of that post...

So if they keeping getting making the playoffs, winning 12ish games and losing playoff games Baltimore will do what? Release him?

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2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Agreed.  The Ravens as a whole didn't look great, and when that happens, I put that on coaching.  

They got outplayed & outcoached across the board. I can't think of one Ravens player or coach who had a better game than his Titans counterpart - I guess, maybe, Hollywood Brown? 

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

no, but they should reevaluate the position, if indeed it's due to his mental and/or physical ineptitudes. the point is to win super bowls

This Titans team is legendary, first they ended the Patriots dynasty and now they have put a 23 year old MVP on the bubble. 

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19 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

They got outplayed & outcoached across the board. I can't think of one Ravens player or coach who had a better game than his Titans counterpart - I guess, maybe, Hollywood Brown? 

This. They just flat got beat and in a pummeling sort of way. Henry and Vrabel and the rest of the personnel pummeled these guys, much like they pummeled the Patriots.Tannehill was as opportune as he needed to be. He made a big throw after the turnover on downs.

Baltimore had a great year. I don't see where now Lamar Jackson and running comes into question because of viability. They almost viabilitied his ### all the way to the Super Bowl. But, and I know ilov is being tongue-in-cheek, the Titans have been something else these past two games.

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1 minute ago, rockaction said:

This. They just flat got beat and in a pummeling sort of way. Henry and Vrabel and the rest of the personnel pummeled these guys, much like they pummeled the Patriots.Tannehill was as opportune as he needed to be. He made a big throw after the turnover on downs.

Baltimore had a great year. I don't see where now Lamar Jackson and running comes into question because of viability. They almost viabilitied his ### all the way to the Super Bowl. But, and I know ilov is being tongue-in-cheek, the Titans have been something else these past two games.

Titans are playing great. I wasn't taking a shot at them, just how crazy it is to even be talking about Lamar Jackson potentially losing his job. I guarantee you not a single Ravens personnel guy is even thinking about moving on. Lamar has been a godsend to them and they are going to be thinking, how can improve this offense and get more weapons around him. 

This Tannehill resurgence is just incredible, one of the best stories of the season. Also, as a Jets fan, this has to really piss you off. Gase shouldn't be on a staff yet alone the head of one. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

Titans are playing great. I wasn't taking a shot at them, just how crazy it is to even be talking about Lamar Jackson potentially losing his job. I guarantee you not a single Ravens personnel guy is even thinking about moving on. Lamar has been a godsend to them and they are going to be thinking, how can improve this offense and get more weapons around him. 

This Tannehill resurgence is just incredible, one of the best stories of the season. Also, as a Jets fan, this has to really piss you off. Gase shouldn't be on a staff yet alone the head of one. 

Oh, I thought you were being anticipatory about the hyperbole foisted upon TN.

Is anybody here thinking of moving on from Lamar over than lod001, who notoriously hates running QBs and modern football thought? I think there were three guys in the thread last night that hated the running-style QB of about one hundred or one hundred fifty in the game thread. 

Oh, Gase as head coach of Jets and watching what Kenyan Drake and DeVante Parker have done, along with Tannehill, is just a disgrace and borderline stain. That said, they went 7-9 against at times what was a brutal schedule and played four or five without their starting QB, so I guess he gets another year. 

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3 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Oh, I thought you were being anticipatory about the hyperbole foisted upon TN.

Is anybody here thinking of moving on from Lamar over than lod001, who notoriously hates running QBs and modern football thought? I think there were three guys in the thread last night that hated the running-style QB of about one hundred or one hundred fifty in the game thread. 

Oh, Gase as head coach of Jets and watching what Kenyan Drake and DeVante Parker have done, along with Tannehill, is just a disgrace and borderline stain. That said, they went 7-9 against at times what was a brutal schedule and played four or five without their starting QB, so I guess he gets another year. 

Oh I don't think anyone thinking rationale or who is trying to do anything other than save face for bad takes. Dr Dan was just speculating about it here though and he's generally quite sharp. 

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to QB Lamar Jackson, BAL

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