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Kaepernick has career rate stats similar to Andrew Luck.
I'm not gonna argue w/ you on whether Kaepernick is or was a good QB... it's a loaded topic w/ other considerations that I don't wanna visit.
So, how is Steve McNair more of a "running QB" than Steve Young?
(For those scoring at home: McNair, 153 starts, 669/3590/37 TD, 5.4 ypc. Young, 143 starts, 722/4239/43 TD, 5.9 ypc. Also 96/594/8 TD, 6.2 ypc in the post-season including leading the team in rushing in the Super Bowl win).
Really you're gonna go there? I already listed Steve Young as a "running QB" earlier but then we're adding another 10 years to the sample size. Hell we can even throw Cunningham in there as well. That's 4 positives in 35 years. Still a pretty bad bet.
What is your list of "running QBs" who ever had a passing season early in their careers as good as Jackson's 2019?
Kaepernick's debut was good. I think if Kaepernick had been given the opportunity to have an NFL career that he would have been a good passer. His actual career rate stats are pretty good; among players who were in the first six years of their careers and had at least 1000 attempts from 2011-2016, Kaepernick's passer rating is #5 of 20 (behind Wilson, Cousins, Ryan, and Dalton, and ahead of Luck, Stafford, Tannehill, Newton, Winston, among others).
In passer rating, Kapernick's 2016 was 17/30 among passers with more than 300 attempts, ahead of Rivers, Winston, E.Manning, Wentz, Newton, and Fitzmagic, people who all still had jobs in 2019.
Good call. I can’t believe he threw 35 TDs in 99. That’s really impressive. Mushin had a solid career but ofcourse we don’t don’t what Hollywood or even Andrews will become. What was up with Jeffers? Did he hurt or something?
Blew out his ACL in the preseason the next year, never got full mobility back.
If Jeffers could have got his knee healed like we can do in 2020, he might have have a great career.
Young never had more than 537 yards rushing in a season. And only had more than 400 a few times.
The passer rating Jackson put up in 2019 is better than any of Steve Young's complete seasons. It is also substantially better than the best seasons of any of the guys you list except for Wilson. (And, it's better than Wilson's best, too, but only a notch better).
A couple things:
I'm saying that his passing performance is more comparable to the list above than to the other guys he's being compared to, like RG3, Vick and God-forbid-on-bended-knee TimTebow. Of course he can't be crowned as better than Steve Young at this point in his career, but I think the question of whether Jackson will have a career that's closer to Randal Cunningham or Steve Young is a lot more relevant than whether he'll have a career that's closer to RG3 or Tim Tebow.
I wrote this whole long thing, but it's wrong. Jackson's passing numbers his first full year trump Russell's in yardage, TDs, QBR, everything. Whoa.
But even though this is true, we know that Wilson was able to scale up his performance in impressive fashion. We don't know that yet about Jackson. Wilson is special. Jackson may be special, we'll see.
Sure. He's had one great season, he's not a future HOFer yet. He also was solid in the last four games of his rookie season so it's not like it's entirely isolated.
It is, but remember that he was 26th in pass attempts and 22nd in passing yards. I doubt we will see that kind of discrepancy again.
The Ravens took Hayden Hurst before Lamar Jackson in the 2018 NFL draft. No one thought Jackson would be as good as he was last year, not even the Ravens.Also, please never forget: Patriots took Isaiah Wynn and Sony Michel before Lamar Jackson in the 2018 draft.
That's enough to make me want to sing the Happy Happy Joy Joy song.Also, please never forget: Patriots took Isaiah Wynn and Sony Michel before Lamar Jackson in the 2018 draft.
I think it is likely that Jackson's TD% (per pass attempt) will remain among the highest in the league.
The big key to his success is that the Ravens coaching staff completely re-tooled the offense to cater to what Jackson does well. It was complete buy in by the organization. That really doesn't happen often. Harbaugh should get a ton of credit for allowing this to happen. Too many coaches try and fit players into their system rather than building a system for the player they have. To me that is the biggest factor to the success.
Sure, but there have been 25 seasons in which QBs passed for more than 36, and 8 other seasons in which QBs passed for 36.Ilov80s said:
OK, I think we're splitting hairs here. If you insist, I'll say Jackson put up "an elite passing season that might have had him in the conversation for league MVP even if he hadn't done any running."
Just 6 interceptions is what helped his qb rating compared to others.
OK, and I don't agree with that. If he had done no running, IMO Wilson was the MVP in a runaway. Not close.
Yes, I understand the elements of the rating. My point is simply that IMO it cannot be one of the greatest passing seasons of all time with 3127/36. It's fine if others disagree, but IMO that is pretty obvious.
It was 401 attempts. Hey, here's a good few comparisons with around 400 attempts:
And none of those are among the greatest passing seasons in NFL history. Come on, this isn’t that hard. Just admit that your quote I originally responded to was an exaggeration.
Totally agree. As smart as many coaches are, the ones that drive me nuts are the ones who try to change players to fit their system, when the smart ones know to tweak their system to fit the skill set of players. The Ravens coaching staff definitely deserves major credit for revamping their entire offense to play to Jackson's strengths rather than trying to change his style of play to fit a system that pre-dated his playing time.
Wait what? In a runaway? Lamar had 5 more tds and a better passer rating despite playing 1 less game (actually probably 2 less games when you factor in he didn’t play the 4th quarter in a few games as the Ravens were pounding teams). Lamar’s team finished with the best record in football, 3 games ahead of Seattle and beat the Seahawks head to head on the road. It would have been a close call between the 2 going by stats.
Not that Pro Bowl selections mean everything, but Jackson had 11 teammates make the Pro Bowl along with him; Wilson had one. One. Take Jackson off the Ravens and they still likely finish .500 at worse. Take Wilson off the Seahawks and they are probably a 4-5 win team.
Seems like a pretty flimsy case when you’re building it off a couple blocks that you say either don’t matter or don’t mean much. I mean come on. He said Russ would win in a runaway. Because he had 1000 more yards in roughly 2 more more games? A couple less picks? While Lamar had more tds and a better rating. That’s a runaway now? Btw don’t overrate the Ravens talent on offense. The line is good. The rest of the skill players aside from Andrews....eh. Lamar elevated them. Willie Snead, Seth Roberts, raw rookie Miles Boykin...
Snead has his 4th best NFL season (of 5) in 2019 based off yards and catches, and Seth Roberts did better all four of his prior seasons in Oakland than he did in 2019. How is that elevating them? Was Boykin that bad of a 3rd round pick that getting 13-198-3 out of him as a rookie is considered a positive for Lamar?? Also, Mark Ingram, who was a Pro Bowler while in New Orleans, is an "eh" player? Look, Jackson had a great season, but let's not act like he turned water into wine or that he was playing with mostly scrubs. He was on a team LOADED with talent.
He elevated the offense as a whole. Loaded lmao come on man. Stanley, Yanda, and Zeus anchored an excellent offensive line. The rest of the skill position players are below average as a whole. Andrews is probably the only one considered in the top 10 at his position. Maybe you can make a case for Ingram but I suspect you’ll struggle to list him as a top 10 rb on talent. You start at him being 3rd or 4th in his own division.
You point out he had talent all around him and proceed to give us a who's who of garbage talent that won't be in the league in 2-3 years that he didn't elevate. You're making no sense whatsoever. Claiming the Ravens would still be a .500 team without Lamar (which they weren't in the previous 20 something games before he took over) when they had a 14-2 record is also a mind boggling argument to make. So he is 6 games above replacement level? That is what makes you the MVP.
