What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

I LOVE Elizabeth Warren: All aboard - WOO WOO!!! (1 Viewer)

Gr00vus said:
This would be a slightly less egregious mistake than running HRC again. Too much baggage (rightfully or otherwise) here.
Click to expand...
IMO Clinton's biggest problem was that she didn't inspire people. Part of that was the baggage accumulated from a quarter century in politics and almost that long being attacked by Ailes and friends, and part of it was her centrist past and lack of fight.  Warren has none of those problems. 

Warren also will benefit from being a female candidate post- Me Too, an especially potent weapon against someone like Trump.  Clinton didn't have that, both because the election predated the movement and because of the complicating factor of her husband's behavior. Every time Trump is demeaning and cruel to her it will remind over half of the electorate that he has always treated women that way and that he often takes it beyond that into abuse and assault.

Honestly none of us has any idea what will work and what won't, but Warren seems as well-positioned as anyone. Every possible candidate has their strengths and weaknesses.  If the best they can do on Warren is the Native American thing, she's in pretty good shape.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
TobiasFunke said:
IMO Clinton's biggest problem was that she didn't inspire people. Part of that was the baggage accumulated from a quarter century in politics and almost that long being attacked by Ailes and friends, and part of it was her centrist past and lack of fight.  Warren has none of those problems. 

Warren also will benefit from being a female candidate post- Me Too, an especially potent weapon against someone like Trump.  Clinton didn't have that, both because the election predated the movement and because of the complicating factor of her husband's behavior.

Honestly none of us has any idea what will work and what won't, but Warren seems as well-positioned as anyone. Every possible candidate has their strengths and weaknesses.  If the best they can do on Warren is the Native American thing, she's in pretty good shape.
Click to expand...
I feel the Democrats best opportunity is finding someone who is more of a centralist.  Warren is too far left for most independents. 

 
Gr00vus said:
This would be a slightly less egregious mistake than running HRC again. Too much baggage (rightfully or otherwise) here.
Click to expand...
Why? What's wrong with firing up the base instead of trying to win over borderline Trump supporters?

 
stlrams said:
I feel the Democrats best opportunity is finding someone who is more of a centralist.  Warren is too far left for most independents. 
Click to expand...
Anyone who thinks Donald Trump as president is a preferable option to someone raising taxes on rich people is not a real centrist or an independent.  Dems need to ignore those people and do what Trump did- rile up the base and tap into votes from disillusioned voters. Trump did it with white nationalism, Warren can do it with progressive ideas like forgiving student loan debt and Medicare for all.

 
Hilts said:
Why? What's wrong with firing up the base instead of trying to win over borderline Trump supporters?
Click to expand...
It's not her message, its the accumulated ill will that will be taken to new levels by her likely opponent. She'll get pocahontased to death.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Anyone who thinks Donald Trump as president is a preferable option to someone raising taxes on rich people is not a real centrist or an independent.  Dems need to ignore those people and do what Trump did- rile up the base and tap into votes from disillusioned voters. Trump did it with white nationalism, Warren can do it with progressive ideas like forgiving student loan debt and Medicare for all.
Click to expand...
More free stuff ??   Where is the money coming from?

 
TobiasFunke said:
Anyone who thinks Donald Trump as president is a preferable option to someone raising taxes on rich people is not a real centrist or an independent.  Dems need to ignore those people and do what Trump did- rile up the base and tap into votes from disillusioned voters. Trump did it with white nationalism, Warren can do it with progressive ideas like forgiving student loan debt and Medicare for all.
Click to expand...


stlrams said:
More free stuff ??   Where is the money coming from?
Click to expand...
The question was answered in the post already, from changes to tax policy and changes in expenditures. There's a few threads on here about how those priorities would be paid for.

As for the ignoring certain people part, chances are a person who refers to policy prioritization as "free stuff" might fall into that category. So a person who says they want a centrist, really doesn't, and will still vote for Trump no matter what.

 
stlrams said:
More free stuff ??   Where is the money coming from?
Click to expand...
I know the deficit hawks who have all gone silent recently are gonna come right back in full force as soon as their president is no longer in office and jacking up the deficit to pay for tax cuts for billionaires.  There's nothing I can do about that. 

But when you inevitably do this, those of us who have suffered through the right's comical hypocrisy on this issue for so long at least get to laugh our rear ends off at said hypocrisy. And I'd like to start right now ....

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: holy #### you gotta be ####ing kidding me.

 
Gr00vus said:
It's not her message, its the accumulated ill will that will be taken to new levels by her likely opponent. She'll get pocahontased to death.
Click to expand...
As opposed to other Democrats, who won't be attacked and labeled with whatever names Republicans can muster? 

 
Dickies said:
First off, for the hundredth time please stop saying anyone is proposing "free stuff". 

The Koch brothers' study on Medicare for all concluded that it would save this country $2T over 10 years compared to our current system.  
Click to expand...
Maybe I said free stuff once or twice but a hundred??  So you think the Federal government can run the healthcare system in an efficient manner like the study assumes?  

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
The question was answered in the post already, from changes to tax policy and changes in expenditures. There's a few threads on here about how those priorities would be paid for.

As for the ignoring certain people part, chances are a person who refers to policy prioritization as "free stuff" might fall into that category. So a person who says they want a centrist, really doesn't, and will still vote for Trump no matter what.
Click to expand...
For the hundredth time, I didn't vote for Trump so you're wrong in your assumption...

 
TobiasFunke said:
Also she can just say that Mexico will pay for it. I have it on good authority that many American voters are dumb enough to fall for that.
Click to expand...
My personal favorite would be," these policies will improve GDP by some nebulous amount which will magically be enough to pay for themselves via increased tax revenue without actually raising tax rates."

 
Gr00vus said:
This is what I'm talking about @Hilts.
Click to expand...
I'm aware of the perils a female candidate must face. Voters hate powerful women. If she runs and is the most popular Democrat who fires up the base, go all in. I don't give a whit about the Pocahontas nonsense or how varying mouth breathers who would never support a Democrat feel about her. 

Let people hear her message if she starts campaigning. That will win many over when they hear more. Others will hate her for very reasons. Ftr, I don't think she's going to run. 

 
stlrams said:
I have a great example and lets take a poll - How well does the Federal gov't run the VA system?? 

Great, Good, Average, Poor, horrible??
Click to expand...
Why don't you just ask the veterans?  There's a survey linked here.  Here's the ultimate finding of that survey:
 

Enrollees who used any VA health care services in 2016 responded to a series of questions to assess their experiences and satisfaction with VA health care. Among the 62 percent of enrollees who responded to these questions, a large majority responded favorably about their experiences with scheduling appointments and their visits to the VA or VA-approved facility. Regarding factors related to appointment scheduling, the experience was positive for 75 percent to 88 percent of respondents across the three related items. More than 81 percent of enrollees also expressed positive views on ease of access to these facilities. Eighty-six percent indicated that personnel were welcoming and helpful during their visit.

In terms of satisfaction with their experiences, those who used VA services reported being most satisfied with the way in which their privacy was respected (90%), and in their interactions with their care providers (ranging from 80% to 86%). Approximately 80 percent of enrollees also expressed high satisfaction in their ability to participate in their own health care decision making. The lowest satisfaction among respondents was related to their ability to get referrals for specialist care or special equipment (65%).

Patterns were generally consistent across demographic groups such that the lowest priority groups (Priority Group 7-8) and those who were 65 years and older were more likely to report positive experiences and higher levels of satisfaction with the VA health care services they received. There was variation in how enrolled Veterans of different racial and ethnic groups responded, but no one pattern emerged. Further analysis would be recommended to better understand these differences.
Click to expand...
How do you think the private health care industry would do if we polled its consumer base?  Do you think it would get similar numbers? Obviously they'd get a little bump because all the people who died from being too poor to afford treatment couldn't answer, so that's a nice start for them!

 
stlrams said:
I have a great example and lets take a poll - How well does the Federal gov't run the VA system?? 

Great, Good, Average, Poor, horrible??
Click to expand...
The VA is not a great example of Medicare performance. Medicare is a great example of Medicare performance. Medicare beneficiaries overall rate their overall satisfaction an 8.53 out of 10. The VA is a poor example because the VA tries to provide actual health services. Medicare doesn't, it is simply the payment mechanism.

Medicare Satisfaction Scores

 
I kind of grudgingly respect the private health care defenders for continuing to show up to get slaughtered like this on a regular basis.  They're the Cleveland Browns of the FFA.

 
Hilts said:
I'm aware of the perils a female candidate must face. Voters hate powerful women.
Click to expand...
First, let me say that I am not accusing you of this, Hilts, but I think misogyny gets used at least some times as an excuse. I guess women can be misogynists. But I'm a woman and I have women friends and the only hope she has of our vote is how we feel about Trump. We're a mix of D's and I's.  Based on what we know as of today, I think we're all okay with Harris.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Why don't you just ask the veterans?  There's a survey linked here.  Here's the ultimate finding of that survey:
 

How do you think the private health care industry would do if we polled its consumer base?  Do you think it would get similar numbers? Obviously they'd get a little bump because all the people who died from being too poor to afford treatment couldn't answer, so that's a nice start for them!
Click to expand...
Its well documented that veterans have suffered and died while on VA waiting lists so its not any different from your example.  Why would I and anyone trust a poll from the VA when they lied to everyone about waiting list time.  The US healthcare system is internationally recognize as one of the best if not the best in the world which is why people come here for treatment.  I've personally witness this as my daughter has a deformity that required specialize surgery.  Roughly 25% of patients for this practice were from outside the US with the furthest being Egypt.  

 
stlrams said:
Its well documented that veterans have suffered and died while on VA waiting lists so its not any different from your example.  Why would I and anyone trust a poll from the VA when they lied to everyone about waiting list time.  The US healthcare system is internationally recognize as one of the best if not the best in the world which is why people come here for treatment.  I've personally witness this as my daughter has a deformity that required specialize surgery.  Roughly 25% of patients for this practice were from outside the US with the furthest being Egypt.  
Click to expand...
The US healthcare system is one of the best in the world ... for those who can afford it.  I'm very glad to hear that you are one of those people, for your sake and your daughter's sake, but the fact is that tens of millions of Americans are not so fortunate. And for those tens of millions of Americans it is one of the worst, if not the worst, in the industrial world.

And that's just looking at the direct impacts of the system on health care itself.  There are also secondary costs associated with our privatized, employer-based health care system.  It forces people to stay in steady, secure jobs that make them unhappy instead of seeking jobs they truly enjoy or venturing out on their own. This stifles entrepreneurs and innovation. It increases costs for most consumers, even after adjusting for the burden of a public system on the average taxpayer, due to the presence of a for-profit middleman who serves no real function. And on and on and on.  There's a reason pretty much every other wealthy first-world nation other than the United States already provides for universal health care.

 
stlrams said:
How much fraud is baked into the Medicare system??
Click to expand...
How much fraud is baked into anything?     Medical providers are already charging for services they didn't actually deliver or charging different prices for the same procedures depending on the patients insurance company or ability to pay.

 
stlrams said:
Estimated at LEAST 10%,  US spends 3.3 trillion on healthcare x 10% = $330.0 billion,,,,,,,, Yeah Gov't does a great job with Medicare..
Click to expand...
You need to get your information elsewhere.  You're being lied to, and as a result you're lying to us.

link

Some highlights for you:
 

PolitiFact also found a study that restores a measure of credibility to Roskam’s estimate. Donald Berwick, a former head of the Centers of Medicare and Medicaid Services or CMS, the agency that runs Medicare, collaborated with an analyst at RAND to produce a landmark paper in 2012 in JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association.

That paper offers three estimates of fraud in the Medicare and Medicaid programs: a low of 3 percent, a medium of 6 percent and a high of 10 percent. CMS told us they have no official estimate of fraud but pointed us to this study, and they cited FBI figures that mirror the numbers in this paper.

...

The JAMA article doesn’t stop at Medicare and Medicaid. It also looks at fraud in the health care sector as a whole, both public and private. The fraud rates don’t change much when the private sector is included.
Click to expand...





 
stlrams said:
Maybe I said free stuff once or twice but a hundred??  So you think the Federal government can run the healthcare system in an efficient manner like the study assumes?  
Click to expand...
It's not just you, there are a bunch of other people who throw out the exact same "more free stuff! How do we pay for it?" line.

If every other industrialized country can run an efficient healthcare system that costs far less than our current system then I would like to think the greatest country on Earth can do it too.  

 
stlrams said:
How much fraud is baked into the Medicare system??
Click to expand...
Disparaging Medicare because of fraud, waste and abuse is the definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Medicare FWA estimates of $60B, or roughly 9-10% of the program total, seems to be the agreed upon number, although CMS estimates that number at 3%-6%. So reducing that number should be a priority for all of us, but hardly a reason to rebuke the entire system. Private health insurers share the same issues as Medicare, FWA isn't exclusive to Medicare.

Here's How to Help Fight FWA in Medicare

Just a thought: Why do people blame Medicare for what criminals do to defraud the system (i.e. the taxpayers)?

 
Dickies said:
It's not just you, there are a bunch of other people who throw out the exact same "more free stuff! How do we pay for it?" line.

If every other industrialized country can run an efficient healthcare system that costs far less than our current system then I would like to think the greatest country on Earth can do it too.  
Click to expand...
Be patient, Mr. Trump is making us great again and will replace Obamacare with something terrific.

 
stlrams said:
You're a honest man.  Yet people want the Gov't to take over the entire healthcare system when they can't efficiently run the VA.
Click to expand...
Take one on the other extreme.  The US Postal Service is one of the best ran and iconic success stories of our government's history.  Yet, somehow private companies and private innovation allow UPS and FedEx to do better.   

Want a letter to Grandma to get there reliably in a couple days, sure USPS.  But, I once had to get papers from Gretna, LA at 9:00 pm at night to El Paso TX before 11:00 am the next day.   To this day I have no idea how FedEx was able to do it because it seems impossible, but, USPS isn't even open at 9 pm.

 
tonydead said:
Take one on the other extreme.  The US Postal Service is one of the best ran and iconic success stories of our government's history.  Yet, somehow private companies and private innovation allow UPS and FedEx to do better.   

Want a letter to Grandma to get there reliably in a couple days, sure USPS.  But, I once had to get papers from Gretna, LA at 9:00 pm at night to El Paso TX before 11:00 am the next day.   To this day I have no idea how FedEx was able to do it because it seems impossible, but, USPS isn't even open at 9 pm.
Click to expand...
The USPS will take a envelope to virtually any address in the United States for $0.50, cheaper for bulk rates.    Will UPS or FedEx do that?

 
tonydead said:
Take one on the other extreme.  The US Postal Service is one of the best ran and iconic success stories of our government's history.  Yet, somehow private companies and private innovation allow UPS and FedEx to do better.   

Want a letter to Grandma to get there reliably in a couple days, sure USPS.  But, I once had to get papers from Gretna, LA at 9:00 pm at night to El Paso TX before 11:00 am the next day.   To this day I have no idea how FedEx was able to do it because it seems impossible, but, USPS isn't even open at 9 pm.
Click to expand...
This is an argument for universal health care, not against it. Everyone has access to a federal postal system that provides the services they need, and if private companies and consumers want something more they are free to make their own arrangements. Replace "postal" with "health care" in the previous sentence and voila.

 
I wish she would run.  I think her economic policy ideas have more meat on the bone than Sanders.  She is a voice we need to hear more of in the primaries.  

 
stlrams said:
Its well documented that veterans have suffered and died while on VA waiting lists so its not any different from your example.  Why would I and anyone trust a poll from the VA when they lied to everyone about waiting list time.  The US healthcare system is internationally recognize as one of the best if not the best in the world which is why people come here for treatment.  I've personally witness this as my daughter has a deformity that required specialize surgery.  Roughly 25% of patients for this practice were from outside the US with the furthest being Egypt.  
Click to expand...
VA medical care is top-notch, what you're complaining about is that there isn't enough of it.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GordonGekko
The Official Katie Porter (HOR/D-CA45) And Her "Whiteboard Of Justice" Appreciation Thread (10/24/22 17:34 PST)
Replies
2
Views
305
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
Did "Canceling" Babylon Bee's Political Satire Change The Future Of All Social Media Forever? (6/5/22 12:30 PST)
Replies
18
Views
733
Juxtatarot
Juxtatarot
GordonGekko
How NYC Bodega Clerk Jose Alba's "Self Defense" Became Political Persecution ( 7/10/22 2:12 PST)
2
Replies
97
Views
2K
parasaurolophus
parasaurolophus

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top