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Dynasty Value Discussion Thread


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10 hours ago, MTskibum said:

I have Darren Waller and I would like to trade for DJ Chark.

Is Darren Waller worth significantly more? I have trouble gauging the value of these 2 players.

A lot more.Waller owner in my PPR league wanted my 2021 1st + Engram. I offered it & he rejected...WTF? Then I offered Golladay + Engram & rejected. No counter. So I have NFC what would be a good offer at this point. I'm not going to offer a massive overpay.

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Tentative rookie RB/WR tiers after diving into clips and stats this weekend:   RB Josh Jacobs, Raiders - No major weaknesses and walks into a starting role. Power, hands, elusiveness, and e

That is interesting. As a Gordon owner here and there, I think I'd have jumped on that offer in any league I have him, without even looking at my own roster or that of the owner sending me the pick.

At first glance I agree, but then when I think about it I almost think the opposite.  If anything it's ridiculous that RBs are so ridiculously overvalued in 1qb leagues.  I love RBs having lots of val

5 minutes ago, roarlions said:

What is Aaron Rodgers worth in terms of a 2021 rookie pick in a 12 team start 1 QB PPR league?

I hate all things Packers but he is probably worth a 1s round pick even at his age. If you can get him for less than that its a bargain, and you might be able to because of his age.

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9 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I hate all things Packers but he is probably worth a 1s round pick even at his age. If you can get him for less than that its a bargain, and you might be able to because of his age.

Just don't see it for an older QB.  Looking around my leagues, which are all start 1 QB, and everyone already has a serviceable QB.  Such in influx of talent at the position in recent years...  Tough to see someone giving up their first.

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33 minutes ago, DropKick said:

Just don't see it for an older QB.  Looking around my leagues, which are all start 1 QB, and everyone already has a serviceable QB.  Such in influx of talent at the position in recent years...  Tough to see someone giving up their first.

I agree.  I wouldn't give more than a mid 2nd for Rodgers and the only reason I would give that for a player his age is because he's still good and should be for a few more years, but I would only be interested if I had a win-now team with a need at QB.  However, more importantly as you mentioned - there's probably very few teams that might have any interest at all in him.  Even those 1 or 2 teams are probably looking at this year's draft, where there could be 5 QBs go in the 1st round, and thinking they would rather spend that 2nd on one of the rookies. 

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2 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

A lot more.Waller owner in my PPR league wanted my 2021 1st + Engram. I offered it & he rejected...WTF? Then I offered Golladay + Engram & rejected. No counter. So I have NFC what would be a good offer at this point. I'm not going to offer a massive overpay.

I own Golladay. The Waller owner said he was on the block for a solid WR. I didn’t even think of offering Golladay for him. I am sure I’m overvaluing what I have and undervaluing what I don’t have (normal behavior), but yours is a very good offer for Waller IMO.

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4 hours ago, DropKick said:

Just don't see it for an older QB.  Looking around my leagues, which are all start 1 QB, and everyone already has a serviceable QB.  Such in influx of talent at the position in recent years...  Tough to see someone giving up their first.

Shrugs. That's what people told me last year too.

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3 hours ago, scothawk said:

Logan Thomas looks like a sell for me. He sort of saved me in multiple dynasty leagues this year but I dont see it as the future.

 

I sold Thomas for a mid 3rd just before the semi-finals to a contending team who desperately needed a TE. I have Kittle along with OJ Howard, Albert O, and Blake Jarwin, so a few upside guys...maybe.

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4 hours ago, scothawk said:

Logan Thomas looks like a sell for me. He sort of saved me in multiple dynasty leagues this year but I dont see it as the future.

 

Thomas is one of those guys where if you dont have one of the top 4-5 guys, you should prolly be attempting to buy even if it seems somewhat steep right now. If nothing else you can flip him post draft or in camp next year when whatever new qb they bring in looks promising. His value is likely only going up moving forward unless a major injury occurs. He is in a situation similar to Kelce or Waller where he is the 1A or B option for targets most weeks. Thats hard to find for cheap out of a te

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15 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

Thomas is one of those guys where if you dont have one of the top 4-5 guys, you should prolly be attempting to buy even if it seems somewhat steep right now. If nothing else you can flip him post draft or in camp next year when whatever new qb they bring in looks promising. His value is likely only going up moving forward unless a major injury occurs. He is in a situation similar to Kelce or Waller where he is the 1A or B option for targets most weeks. Thats hard to find for cheap out of a te

The thing with dealing Thomas is what are you replacing him?  My guess is if you flip him the return will be marginal at best due to his age and the worry he's a one year wonder...if you have two other quality TEs than I get cashing out on a guy you may have got off of waivers this year...yet, if you deal him and don't have other quality TEs you may have to pay more than what you got for him to replace and in the short-term you may not have upgraded...TE is a position you really need to take a good look at what's out there because it's not much and if you're not careful you can give your starting line-up a black hole.

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1 hour ago, Pwingles said:

Thomas is one of those guys where if you dont have one of the top 4-5 guys, you should prolly be attempting to buy even if it seems somewhat steep right now. If nothing else you can flip him post draft or in camp next year when whatever new qb they bring in looks promising. His value is likely only going up moving forward unless a major injury occurs. He is in a situation similar to Kelce or Waller where he is the 1A or B option for targets most weeks. Thats hard to find for cheap out of a te

People might want to sell if they are listening to Adam Schefter. He said a landing spot for Cam Newton could be Washington. Ugh.

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16 hours ago, BigAl21 said:

Wondering what other value RoJo at moving forward? Was offered the 1.12 in FFPC and think I should take it. Vaughn there to take some work next year. 

I try to avoid trading for RB2 types this time of year. You don’t lose anything by waiting to see how the draft and FA play out. TB could add a significant piece - to supplement and/or eventually replace him. He’s a UFA after next season, and teams often look to secure replacements a year early. 

And the pick will be most valuable while you’re on the clock.

I would suggest waiting - and making the deal during or around your rookie draft, if it still makes sense.

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8 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Shrugs. That's what people told me last year too.

His buying price last year was probably more like a late 2nd/early 3rd though so that was a different conversation. 

I think that's kind of the thing with these guys like Rodgers/Wilson. They kind of rotate between great years, mediocre years, and QB2 years and if you like them there will almost always be an opportunity to buy lower in the very near future. 

Even this year there were 12 qbs that either outscored Rodgers in ppg or finished within 2pts of Rodgers in ppg. Basically he had 26ppg and qb12 had 24ppg. If I were spending a 1st to grab one of those 12 it wouldn't be on (by far) the 2nd oldest one of them.

It would be one thing if Rodgers were putting up 26ppg every year and were much more likely to do it again next year but this is the first time he's even come close to that number since 2016. I think it's just as likely he settles back into the 20-22ppg range next year at which point as a 38 year old he will once again be extremely cheap to acquire. 

ETA: It's more like 11 QBs with 24+ ppg as I didn't notice one of the 12 in the list was Marcus Mariota who only played 1 game.

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39 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

People might want to sell if they are listening to Adam Schefter. He said a landing spot for Cam Newton could be Washington. Ugh.

That would be gross tbh. That would be the risk you take I suppose. I think its more likely than not that they look to free agency to address the qb situation there. If so, there are a couple people that I could see getting a short term deal and it not being a total disaster for the other fantasy options in Washington;

Fitz, Dalton, or winston would be decent. Dak is out there lingering in the ether, and Washington isnt scared to spend money, they will have like 40 mil in cap space next year.

If you really think Cam is the main target and likely to start (at least at the start of the season), selling now would be the shark move. I dont think cam is the same cam that supported Olsen all those years.

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1 hour ago, Boston said:

The thing with dealing Thomas is what are you replacing him?  My guess is if you flip him the return will be marginal at best due to his age and the worry he's a one year wonder...if you have two other quality TEs than I get cashing out on a guy you may have got off of waivers this year...yet, if you deal him and don't have other quality TEs you may have to pay more than what you got for him to replace and in the short-term you may not have upgraded...TE is a position you really need to take a good look at what's out there because it's not much and if you're not careful you can give your starting line-up a black hole.

Anecdotal, but by the end of most seasons I consistently accumulate several interesting but not trustworthy tight ends. As rookie drafts near and those without reliable tight ends (most competitors) realize it they suddenly become interested in acquiring tight ends. I decide the couple I want to bet on, sell off the others, then as the next few months pass by accumulate several more interesting but not trustworthy tight ends. I didn't end up with Logan anywhere, but if it were me I'd be deciding if he's my week 1 starter or one of the guys I'm trading in spring. There is no C. 

The one negative to that approach - when you are tired of waiting on Darren Waller and move him in one of those spring purge's <_<

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34 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I think that's kind of the thing with these guys like Rodgers/Wilson. They kind of rotate between great years, mediocre years, and QB2 years and if you like them there will almost always be an opportunity to buy lower in the very near future.

I think this is more descriptive than predictive. I expect QB production to regress as a whole - and Rodgers with that. But I don’t see why we’d expect his production to be any more volatile than the position as a whole.

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I have seen some discussion on Mixon in a 2021 look ahead thread for redraft but not here recently for both short and longer term value. I have been shopping him in my dyn league and could likely get mid first rounder 2021 and a 2022 projected early/mid first rounder for him. I have seen him being pegged as both a buy and a sell depending where you look. What do we think his buy/sell status should be and value you have been seeing? 

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5 minutes ago, glong989 said:

I have seen some discussion on Mixon in a 2021 look ahead thread for redraft but not here recently for both short and longer term value. I have been shopping him in my dyn league and could likely get mid first rounder 2021 and a 2022 projected early/mid first rounder for him. I have seen him being pegged as both a buy and a sell depending where you look. What do we think his buy/sell status should be and value you have been seeing? 

I own Mixon and really like him going forward with Burrow and the WRs they have there.  We saw that Gio wasn't the answer so I think Mixon takes that 3 down back and runs with it.  I don' think you will get more than what you were offered for Mixon and depends on the rest of your lineup and who may be available with that pick.

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11 minutes ago, glong989 said:

I have seen some discussion on Mixon in a 2021 look ahead thread for redraft but not here recently for both short and longer term value. I have been shopping him in my dyn league and could likely get mid first rounder 2021 and a 2022 projected early/mid first rounder for him. I have seen him being pegged as both a buy and a sell depending where you look. What do we think his buy/sell status should be and value you have been seeing? 

I think it's a stock market.  You sell if the buyer pays enough.  You buy if the seller's price is low enough.  

Mixon is in a weird spot.  People are salivating over his potential.  He really played amazing in the 6 games he played.  Missing 10 games leaves a bad taste in people's mouths though.  

A mid 2021 1st--I'm going to assume like 6 or 7--you're outside the big players at WR and RB.  You may be looking at Pitts or one of the 2nd/3rd tier WR's.  I would hold Mixon until he starts off strong and then see what the market is.

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1 hour ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I think that's kind of the thing with these guys like Rodgers/Wilson. They kind of rotate between great years, mediocre years, and QB2 years

Using the PFR fantasy position ranks as a proxy since it is an easy reference:

  • Rodgers (2008-2020) - 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 22 (9 games played), 1, 7, 1, 29 (7 GP), 7, 9, 2
  • Wilson (2012-2020) - 9, 8, 3, 3, 11, 1, 9, 3, 6

By this proxy, Wilson has had zero QB2 seasons and Rodgers has had just 2, both when he played 9 or fewer games. Maybe you are using ppg? Or maybe you mean to say they rotate between top 1-3 (great), 4-6 ("mediocre"), and 7-12 ("QB2")?

The rest of your post conveyed your point without this statement that seemed off.

But I will also point out that scoring system and league size/lineup requirements matter quite a bit in this discussion. In my oldest dynasty league, excluding Mariota and Prescott due to sample size, Rodgers was #3 in ppg, less than 0.4 ppg behind #1 (Mahomes) and about 8 ppg better than #12 (Roethlisberger). As you pointed out, he wasn't close to the same production from 2017-2019, although he was #4 in ppg in 2017.

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35 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

I think this is more descriptive than predictive. I expect QB production to regress as a whole - and Rodgers with that. But I don’t see why we’d expect his production to be any more volatile than the position as a whole.

That's fair.  But Rodgers had 51 TDs this year and still outscored a bottom of the barrel QB1 by a couple PPG.  He has had huge TD seasons before and always regressed afterwards.  Heck, everyone has.

He was 8th in the NFL in passing yards per game (a negligible 3 passing yards per game ahead of 12th place Philip Rivers) and doesn't really provide meaningful rushing yardage anymore.

The big difference in this season was he threw a TD once every 11 attempts.  

The last two years prior he's thrown a TD once every 23 attempts in 2019 and every 24 attempts in 2018.  Once every 17 attempts for his career.

I'm not certain how to look it up but I would guess once every 11 attempts is near the NFL record.  He's almost certain to regress from that number, harshly.  That's not to mention the 51 TDs which again we always see regression after.

He's never been a big passing yardage guy with a career high of 4600, that being 10 years ago and the only time he's ever broken 4500 passing yards in his career.  And he's not rushing for 350 yards per season like he was in his prime.

So unless he puts up 50 TDs again, which seems unlikely, I don't really foresee another top 3 finish in his immediate future.  And even with those 51 TDs he didn't really provide a meaningful advantage over the field, just 2.5ppg better than QB11.

Couple all of that with his age and a 1st round pick seems excessive to me.  I do realize QB value is highly league dependent though.

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5 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

I'm not certain how to look it up but I would guess once every 11 attempts is near the NFL record

His performance this season was #15 of all time, though all of the performances above him except one (Peyton 2004) occured in 1976 or earlier, most much earlier.

Agree regression should be expected, though it is also fair to point out that his career TD percentage is tied for 7th best all-time, again with all ahead of him other than Peyton playing in earlier eras.

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13 hours ago, kutta said:

I own Golladay. The Waller owner said he was on the block for a solid WR. I didn’t even think of offering Golladay for him. I am sure I’m overvaluing what I have and undervaluing what I don’t have (normal behavior), but yours is a very good offer for Waller IMO.

He said he now wants to keep Waller. Whatever!

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47 minutes ago, glong989 said:

I have seen some discussion on Mixon in a 2021 look ahead thread for redraft but not here recently for both short and longer term value. I have been shopping him in my dyn league and could likely get mid first rounder 2021 and a 2022 projected early/mid first rounder for him. I have seen him being pegged as both a buy and a sell depending where you look. What do we think his buy/sell status should be and value you have been seeing? 

I tried to, I guess, buy low by offering my 2021 1.09 for him & was rejected. I would not pay two 1sts for him. Not worth it IMO. Now I wonder what other RBs I could get for two 1sts or 2021 1st & Golladay, though...

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10 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

That's fair.  But Rodgers had 51 TDs this year and still outscored a bottom of the barrel QB1 by a couple PPG.  He has had huge TD seasons before and always regressed afterwards.  Heck, everyone has.

He was 8th in the NFL in passing yards per game (a negligible 3 passing yards per game ahead of 12th place Philip Rivers) and doesn't really provide meaningful rushing yardage anymore.

The big difference in this season was he threw a TD once every 11 attempts.  

The last two years prior he's thrown a TD once every 23 attempts in 2019 and every 24 attempts in 2018.  Once every 17 attempts for his career.

I'm not certain how to look it up but I would guess once every 11 attempts is near the NFL record.  He's almost certain to regress from that number, harshly.  That's not to mention the 51 TDs which again we always see regression after.

He's never been a big passing yardage guy with a career high of 4600, that being 10 years ago and the only time he's ever broken 4500 passing yards in his career.  And he's not rushing for 350 yards per season like he was in his prime.

So unless he puts up 50 TDs again, which seems unlikely, I don't really foresee another top 3 finish in his immediate future.  And even with those 51 TDs he didn't really provide a meaningful advantage over the field, just 2.5ppg better than QB11.

Couple all of that with his age and a 1st round pick seems excessive to me.  I do realize QB value is highly league dependent though.

I agree a 1st is too much for him in any 1QB format I’ve played. I do think he’s solidly in the group of 8ish? QBs who won’t put you at a huge disadvantage if you start them, however. For the next couple years at least. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t a QB1 next year.

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48 minutes ago, glong989 said:

I have seen some discussion on Mixon in a 2021 look ahead thread for redraft but not here recently for both short and longer term value. I have been shopping him in my dyn league and could likely get mid first rounder 2021 and a 2022 projected early/mid first rounder for him. I have seen him being pegged as both a buy and a sell depending where you look. What do we think his buy/sell status should be and value you have been seeing? 

Mixon should be a substantially better play in 2021 than any rookie RB that is available in the middle of the 1st. Beyond that? We'll see, but I'm confident he will be a great option in our game for at least the next 2 seasons - through his age 26 season. The notoriously cheap Bengals are not going to actively seek out a replacement and we all saw how potent this offense could be with Joe Burrow. I think it's unlikely he (quickly!) develops into a problem beyond that 2 year window, but that's a long time from now.

If it were me - if I were short a starting RB right now and I am confident in what I have at other offensive positions then I think this is a worthwhile consideration. I won't pursue it because I am satisfied with my current options though.

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27 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Using the PFR fantasy position ranks as a proxy since it is an easy reference:

  • Rodgers (2008-2020) - 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 22 (9 games played), 1, 7, 1, 29 (7 GP), 7, 9, 2
  • Wilson (2012-2020) - 9, 8, 3, 3, 11, 1, 9, 3, 6

By this proxy, Wilson has had zero QB2 seasons and Rodgers has had just 2, both when he played 9 or fewer games. Maybe you are using ppg? Or maybe you mean to say they rotate between top 1-3 (great), 4-6 ("mediocre"), and 7-12 ("QB2")?

Yeah I fully admit that was kind of something I was throwing out there off the top of my head, not anything I had run hard data on.  I do typically use PPG when looking at these but I hadn't run the numbers.

So maybe backend QB1 seasons is a better way to say it, but the point kind of remains the same.  Their value fluctuates wildly when they have these seasons.  A backend QB1 season isn't worth much in most leagues.  It just seems like these guys go through a never ending cycle where they put up a great year, everyone has to have them and overpays, and then by next year (or sometimes the following year) they're boring mid/low QB1's again and they're extremely cheap to acquire, and then after a year or two they put together another magical season, and so on.  Note I'm talking more about the latter half of Rodgers career here.

By PPG

Rodgers: 4, 2, 12, 1, 6, 10, 14, 3

Wilson: 15, 3, 4, 13, 2, 12, 7, 8

When they  have those low QB1 seasons their value just drops so substantially and they're so easy to acquire.  This applies doubly (probably moreso) with Rodgers now that he's old.

If I were going to spend a 1st on a QB I'd be looking at someone like Watson.  Maybe more of a toss-up whether you could pull it off but most of the trade calculators I see people use (DTC, DLF, KTC) have Watson as being worth about the 1.06/1.07 in this draft or a 2022 1st/2nd if looking at random future picks.  Watson is one of those guys in the "down" part of the cycle right now even though he wasn't in that low QB1 range that Rodgers/Wilson sometimes hit, where people just aren't talking about him when talking about QBs they have to have anymore.  I would bet that Watson is going to have a top 3 QB season in the next year or two and get a huge value spike.

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2 hours ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

People might want to sell if they are listening to Adam Schefter. He said a landing spot for Cam Newton could be Washington. Ugh.

I seem to recall Netwon/Rivera being a gold mine for an older TE named Greg Olsen.

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I'm in a 12 team IDP league with 30 man rosters, where we keep 15, and then draft 15. 

We have 17 starters, 8 on offense, 8 on defense, 1 kicker.  Most guys keep 10-12 Offensive players and 3-5 defensive players.  

Since the keeper numbers are so high, I've always treated it like a dynasty league.  But pick trading is tricky.  

What's the pick value in a league like this?  The first 2-3 rounds are mostly offensive rookies, and the occasional thrown back rookie from last year.  Then you get into IDP's an depth guys.  

Picks worth more than a dynasty league?  Less?  Similar?

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55 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

You are correct, however, his passing has gone down hill it appears from his Greg Olsen days.

How much of it was on Newton and how much was on the lack of surrounding talent?  That offense was bereft of playmakers.

Newton after the first quarter of the season was everyone's darling comeback story.  Did he get hurt again?  Get tired?  Get old?  Some of all three?

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Just now, tangfoot said:

How much of it was on Newton and how much was on the lack of surrounding talent?  That offense was bereft of playmakers.

Newton after the first quarter of the season was everyone's darling comeback story.  Did he get hurt again?  Get tired?  Get old?  Some of all three?

Clearly there is no way to know. All I'm saying is I would not want Newton to be throwing to one of the receivers/tight ends that are on my roster for fantasy. But I could be proven wrong at some point.

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16 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

How much of it was on Newton and how much was on the lack of surrounding talent?  That offense was bereft of playmakers.

Newton after the first quarter of the season was everyone's darling comeback story.  Did he get hurt again?  Get tired?  Get old?  Some of all three?

The answer (emphatically) is both...the Pats skill position players are complete garbage, there is no debate about that...unfortunately Newton is done...outside of his leadership he doesn't offer much...his accuracy is awful, he has no touch and his pocket presence is subpar...I heard Tom Curran on the radio today say the Patriots offense was held hostage by him this season and I think that is dead-on...I honestly can't picture another team giving him a chance to start and it's too bad because the guy was real impressive as a person this year but man, was he bad.

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4 hours ago, glong989 said:

I have seen some discussion on Mixon in a 2021 look ahead thread for redraft but not here recently for both short and longer term value. I have been shopping him in my dyn league and could likely get mid first rounder 2021 and a 2022 projected early/mid first rounder for him. I have seen him being pegged as both a buy and a sell depending where you look. What do we think his buy/sell status should be and value you have been seeing? 

I only have him in one dynasty league with good RB strength and would love to have two solid 1sts. I don't think he has a ton of buyers at cost, though. 

ETA Crap just remembered I have two shares and paid a lot for that other one. Marquise plus future 1st and 2nd. 

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3 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

I tried to, I guess, buy low by offering my 2021 1.09 for him & was rejected. I would not pay two 1sts for him. Not worth it IMO. Now I wonder what other RBs I could get for two 1sts or 2021 1st & Golladay, though...

I bought him a couple months ago for what ended up being 1.09. 

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I just don’t understand the Mixon love around here. He had one excellent game out of 6 this season.  3 “ok” games and 2 stinkers.  He didn’t break 4 yards per carry.  He signed a long term contract so he’s stuck with the Bengals.   So unless you see the Bengals really turning things around by drafting o-line heavy, I’m not sure what changes next year.  I think he continues to be a very low end RB1 or high end RB2. 

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Just now, Boone22 said:

I just don’t understand the Mixon love around here. He had one excellent game out of 6 this season.  3 “ok” games and 2 stinkers.  He didn’t break 4 yards per carry.  He signed a long term contract so he’s stuck with the Bengals.   So unless you see the Bengals really turning things around by drafting o-line heavy, I’m not sure what changes next year.  I think he continues to be a very low end RB1 or high end RB2. 

Is that so wrong?

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9 minutes ago, Boone22 said:

I just don’t understand the Mixon love around here. He had one excellent game out of 6 this season.  3 “ok” games and 2 stinkers.  He didn’t break 4 yards per carry.  He signed a long term contract so he’s stuck with the Bengals.   So unless you see the Bengals really turning things around by drafting o-line heavy, I’m not sure what changes next year.  I think he continues to be a very low end RB1 or high end RB2. 

To echo what I think barackdhouse was saying was I was under the impression he is in that RB1/RB2 range for most.  If he's higher I'm not sure how but I do think addressing the OL is priority #1 for the Bengals this off-season with the motivation for doing so more to protect Burrow.

I'd really like it for Mixon if the Bengals would move on from Gio and allow Mixon to his passing down role but I'd be extremely surprised if that happened, instead he'll play out his contract which ends after 2021.

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Mixon might end up with RB1/2 total numbers but the fluctuation is the problem.

He can win you three games (or two or five, the number doesn't really matter) on his own - and he can lose you three games on his own.

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24 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

What is fair market value for Davante Parker in PPR? I want off the train & I need RB or TE help. I would not be opposed to trading for another WR, though.

Similar value for

RBs: Kenyan Drake, Ronald Jones, Melvin Gordon, James Conner
TEs: Dallas Goedert, Hunter Henry, Evan Engram

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39 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

Is that so wrong?

I think 2 first round rookie picks is too much for him.  That’s what I was referring to with my post.  I don’t see his current production as being worth two firsts. 

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28 minutes ago, menobrown said:

To echo what I think barackdhouse was saying was I was under the impression he is in that RB1/RB2 range for most.  If he's higher I'm not sure how but I do think addressing the OL is priority #1 for the Bengals this off-season with the motivation for doing so more to protect Burrow.

I'd really like it for Mixon if the Bengals would move on from Gio and allow Mixon to his passing down role but I'd be extremely surprised if that happened, instead he'll play out his contract which ends after 2021.

Just for clarity.  When you reference play out his contract which ends in 2021, you mean Bernard right?  Because Mixon is signed through 2024.  

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2 hours ago, tangfoot said:

How much of it was on Newton and how much was on the lack of surrounding talent?  That offense was bereft of playmakers.

Newton after the first quarter of the season was everyone's darling comeback story.  Did he get hurt again?  Get tired?  Get old?  Some of all three?

There are a lot of teams that have been devoid of playmakers over the last few years.  I can't recall one that ever had worse fantasy passing numbers come out of it.  I mean Cam's passing line looks like it's from 1930.  2500 yards with 8 TDs and 10 INTs in 15 games.

I realize he ran quite a few TDs in but that doesn't help a fantasy TE.  166 yards per game passing and 8 passing TDs in 15 games in 2020 is remarkable.

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