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Just now, Helaire-ious said:

Miles Sanders price check. His owner wants Hunt AND AJ Brown or K. Allen for Sanders. I think that's crazy. Thoughts?

That AJB request to have Hunt added to it is a bit lofty.

The Hunt/Allen request is fairly reasonable IMO, certainly based on early startup value I'm seeing.

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Tentative rookie RB/WR tiers after diving into clips and stats this weekend:   RB Josh Jacobs, Raiders - No major weaknesses and walks into a starting role. Power, hands, elusiveness, and e

That is interesting. As a Gordon owner here and there, I think I'd have jumped on that offer in any league I have him, without even looking at my own roster or that of the owner sending me the pick.

At first glance I agree, but then when I think about it I almost think the opposite.  If anything it's ridiculous that RBs are so ridiculously overvalued in 1qb leagues.  I love RBs having lots of val

21 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying but if you have Hunt and Allen as nearly equal - how is adding Hunt too much?

Are you saying AJ Brown is worth considerably more than Miles Sanders and an offer of Sanders + Allen = AJB, because as some one that owns both I’m not seeing that. I think Sanders and Brown are close.

I’m not seeing that offer as bad at all:

Allen = Hunt (approx.)

AJB = Sanders (approx.)
 

What am I missing?

Difference is between Brown and Allen. Hunt/Brown not reasonable. Hunt/Allen is reasonable.

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5 minutes ago, Gawain said:

Difference is between Brown and Allen. Hunt/Brown not reasonable. Hunt/Allen is reasonable.

But would you trade hunt and Allen for miles Sanders?

I'm struggling with wanting to pull the trigger on dealing both of those for just Sanders

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12 minutes ago, Gawain said:

Difference is between Brown and Allen. Hunt/Brown not reasonable. Hunt/Allen is reasonable.

Yes I misread the original offer. That was the problem. Get it now.

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8 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

But would you trade hunt and Allen for miles Sanders?

I'm struggling with wanting to pull the trigger on dealing both of those for just Sanders

Hunt + Allen for Sanders is very reasonable imo. Maybe try and get a little something thrown in.

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22 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

But would you trade hunt and Allen for miles Sanders?

I'm struggling with wanting to pull the trigger on dealing both of those for just Sanders

I wouldn't, but I think I'm higher on Allen than meno is. That being said, Allen is 28. If you're going to get out, now is the time. I think with Herbert and KA's talent he can be very productive for the next three years, but some people will want out now.

I'm not a Sanders believer, but can see how people would be.

ETA: I'm planning on making a run at AJB once my league activity picks up with Allen/Henry.

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Just now, Dr. Octopus said:

Hunt + Allen for Sanders is very reasonable imo. Maybe try and get a little something thrown in.

I would do it

Hunt is 26 years old and overvalued imo

Allen is good but past prime

 

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On 3/9/2021 at 2:30 PM, Helaire-ious said:

Miles Sanders price check. His owner wants Hunt AND AJ Brown or K. Allen for Sanders. I think that's crazy. Thoughts?

AJ Brown is light years ahead of any of those other guys value. This guy wants more than sanders is worth imo. I’d give Allen. I wouldn’t give Brown for sanders and 2 1sts tbh. 

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On 3/9/2021 at 2:30 PM, Helaire-ious said:

Miles Sanders price check. His owner wants Hunt AND AJ Brown or K. Allen for Sanders. I think that's crazy. Thoughts?

AJ Brown > Sanders for me 

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On 3/9/2021 at 11:30 AM, Helaire-ious said:

Miles Sanders price check. His owner wants Hunt AND AJ Brown or K. Allen for Sanders. I think that's crazy. Thoughts?

Don't include Brown in this. My ten cents. Allen and Hunt for Sanders is square and fair I should think.  

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Reference point:

I offered Antonio Gibson for Keenan Allen and was declined.

I then offered Gibson for McLaurin and was also denied.

I’m pretty set at RB but could use an upgrade at WR, so I’m throwing out offers.

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

This thread has turned into the Asst. Coach Forum.

How else do we talk about dynasty value than to talk about where *we* are with it. Which is going to come across as advice. Otherwise 100% of responses to questions about value should just be "follow this link to ADP".

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7 minutes ago, kutta said:

Reference point:

I offered Antonio Gibson for Keenan Allen and was declined.

I then offered Gibson for McLaurin and was also denied.

I’m pretty set at RB but could use an upgrade at WR, so I’m throwing out offers.

That is nuts. I love McLaurin but would likely move him for Gibson pretty fast. Allen for Gibson would be an autoslam regardless of format. 

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For reference in my SF startup right now, Gibson went 3.06, Terry went 5.07 and Allen just went at 6.07. I have always argued that a startup is *one* way to think about relative values but that it should be taken with a big grain of salt as people are doing unique things during startups. But nevertheless.

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40 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

For reference in my SF startup right now, Gibson went 3.06, Terry went 5.07 and Allen just went at 6.07. I have always argued that a startup is *one* way to think about relative values but that it should be taken with a big grain of salt as people are doing unique things during startups. But nevertheless.

I agree - I thought I was being overly generous, but...

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51 minutes ago, kutta said:

Reference point:

I offered Antonio Gibson for Keenan Allen and was declined.

I then offered Gibson for McLaurin and was also denied.

I’m pretty set at RB but could use an upgrade at WR, so I’m throwing out offers.

Wow surprised to see that.  You've gotta be the only guy in FF looking to move RBs for non-elite WRs right now that doesn't have 11 other owners banging on your door.

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12 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

Zeke worth a late 2021 1st AND a 2022 1st? I say no

If you were a really strong contender, I could see this. But I agree two years is about what he has left as a tier 1 RB. 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

This thread has turned into the Asst. Coach Forum.

Some people really abuse it but most don’t seem to care, so it is what it is.

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1 hour ago, barackdhouse said:

How else do we talk about dynasty value than to talk about where *we* are with it. Which is going to come across as advice. Otherwise 100% of responses to questions about value should just be "follow this link to ADP".

I think there’s a line. Some people just throw out trade offer after trade offer for their individual team and ask if they should take it, etc.

 Personally I like the dynasty strategy and player evaluation discussions better and find the “is this trade offer nuts?” or “should I trade David Johnson for Kennan Allen” posts annoying and selfish but it’s not my thread, so I’m just along for the ride.

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26 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I think there’s a line. Some people just throw out trade offer after trade offer for their individual team and ask if they should take it, etc.

 Personally I like the dynasty strategy and player evaluation discussions better and find the “is this trade offer nuts?” or “should I trade David Johnson for Kennan Allen” posts annoying and selfish but it’s not my thread, so I’m just along for the ride.

I can see there being a line but I'm not sure it is very well defined. At all. What difference does it make if someone asks "should I trade player x for player y or player z?" vs "what do people think of the values of players x,y, and z?" There is no difference just some verbiage bothers people for weird reasons and other verbiage doesn't. Even though it is the same damn thing. This isn't directed at you, just my thoughts on it. I appreciate the answer you gave, seems sufficient.

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54 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Some people really abuse it but most don’t seem to care, so it is what it is.

I've stopped answering direct AC forum questions in this thread.  I like discussing general trade value of players, but I never ask for specific trade advice when I do post questions.

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1 hour ago, Duckboy said:

If you were a really strong contender, I could see this. But I agree two years is about what he has left as a tier 1 RB. 

I'd trade 2x late firsts for Zeke 2 years of great production in a heartbeat.  Depending on how your drafts went the past few years that could be Zeke for 2 of Reagor/Ruggs/Singletary/Parris/Fant...

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13 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

What does the 2022 draft class ook like? I'm trying to figure out whether or not the 1.12 for this year is better than having an unknown, but likely late, 2022 first rounder...

I think it’s almost always a good idea to trade the 1.12 for a first the following year. An injury and some bad luck here and there and you’re sitting on a top 5 pick.

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29 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

What does the 2022 draft class ook like? I'm trying to figure out whether or not the 1.12 for this year is better than having an unknown, but likely late, 2022 first rounder...

I'm beginning to be more and more curious about this as well as I've had some future 1sts fall in my lap lately. I think I've heard people suggest it should be good for QBs. I wouldn't know. RB is probably my top question, as usual.

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I agree with the general strategy that it's good to trade 1.12 for a future 1st, but it really depends on the specifics of the current draft (the players available for your 1.12 pick).  Last year, for example, was so deep with quality players I didn't trade any of my late 1sts because I wanted someone like Higgins or Aiyuk there.  I wound up getting Higgins in all 3 of my primary dynasty leagues where I had a late 1st.  There's been other years where I had to add something to a late 1st to get a future 1st because the quality of the late 1st was poor.  IMO, at this point in time, this year looks very deep and I think there will be good prospects available in the late 1st.  I wouldn't be in a rush to trade the pick right now.

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37 minutes ago, kutta said:

I think it’s almost always a good idea to trade the 1.12 for a first the following year. An injury and some bad luck here and there and you’re sitting on a top 5 pick.

As of now, I'm leaning towards this year's 1.12 being more valuable than an unknown likely late first for 2022. I might be in the minority 

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19 minutes ago, RC94 said:

I agree with the general strategy that it's good to trade 1.12 for a future 1st, but it really depends on the specifics of the current draft (the players available for your 1.12 pick).  Last year, for example, was so deep with quality players I didn't trade any of my late 1sts because I wanted someone like Higgins or Aiyuk there.  I wound up getting Higgins in all 3 of my primary dynasty leagues where I had a late 1st.  There's been other years where I had to add something to a late 1st to get a future 1st because the quality of the late 1st was poor.  IMO, at this point in time, this year looks very deep and I think there will be good prospects available in the late 1st.  I wouldn't be in a rush to trade the pick right now.

Yes. Last year I picked the likes of Jefferson, Higgins, Pittman and Aiyuk there in various leagues. In a SF league I realized I could probably wait on Pittman at 1.12 and move back. I moved to 2.04 and 3.04 in exchange and ended up with Pittman anyway, and then Claypool at 3.04. That is obviously really good luck (I am a Pittman believer but that isn't the point), but it wouldn't have been possible if I had traded out for a future 1st earlier. It was an OTC move. I had just taken Jefferson at 1.11 and decided I loved the board enough that I would move back and my guy that I was willing to take there fell for me. 

Anyway all that said, I'm not liking the back half of the 1st round this year all that much. I'll likely feel different after the NFL draft. I'd like to see some good landing spots for some folks, otherwise I might autoslam 1.12 for a future pick. But nobody is making that offer (to me at present) and I'm not going to try that hard to find it.

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15 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

As of now, I'm leaning towards this year's 1.12 being more valuable than an unknown likely late first for 2022. I might be in the minority 

I don't think you are in the minority at all, but I think it's maybe close to even for me. But there is no obvious reason to trade out yet. 

ETA I didn't catch that the future one is likely late. That probably swings it towards the 1.12 for me if I wasn't there already.

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49 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I'm beginning to be more and more curious about this as well as I've had some future 1sts fall in my lap lately. I think I've heard people suggest it should be good for QBs. I wouldn't know. RB is probably my top question, as usual.

QB is the only position I've actually heard about projected strength of the 2022 class and I've heard just the opposite and I know Daniel Jeremia was on guy saying this, that it does not look good. He and others who have said the 2022 class does not look great offer caveat we've been getting the guy out of nowhere(Baker, Zach Wilson) but right now it does not look very good.

 

29 minutes ago, Helaire-ious said:

As of now, I'm leaning towards this year's 1.12 being more valuable than an unknown likely late first for 2022. I might be in the minority 

Not so much the minority but key is what @kutta said about injuries and bad luck giving you a chance for what you thought was a likely late pick to not be late. Happened to me last year, I see it all the time but to be fair I see this more in FFPC were we have the draft playoffs, so a team can barely miss the playoffs and get you pick 1.

And really Kutta said injuries and bad luck but in 2019 a buddy of mine led his team in scoring in FFPC and failed to make the playoffs and that same year I led my league in scoring and barely made it in another league. Whatever the reason, stuff happens and really good looking teams fall on their face sometimes.

But I don't think you should be in a hurry either. When to trade those picks if you someone wants to do it is a whole other strategy topic. Waiting till you are OTC could be to long, on the other hand I've seen players I did not anticipate making it to 12, like Ridley and Michael Thomas and once I could draft them I had no interest moving the pick.

 

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16 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Waiting till you are OTC could be to long, on the other hand I've seen players I did not anticipate making it to 12, like Ridley and Michael Thomas and once I could draft them I had no interest moving the pick.

 

Yeah there wasn't anything that was going to get me off of Jefferson last year if he was on the board in the late 1st and I was OTC. Which happened a few times for me.

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6 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

What does the 2022 draft class ook like? I'm trying to figure out whether or not the 1.12 for this year is better than having an unknown, but likely late, 2022 first rounder...

More unknowns due to covid, but the starting point isn't good. 

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6 hours ago, Helaire-ious said:

What does the 2022 draft class ook like? I'm trying to figure out whether or not the 1.12 for this year is better than having an unknown, but likely late, 2022 first rounder...

It looks about the same at WR, if not a bit better to me. At RB it looks worse. Way worse. 

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18 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

It looks about the same at WR, if not a bit better to me. At RB it looks worse. Way worse. 

Same at QB and TE, which will make WR go earlier. 

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How are people viewing Evan Engram? He had a fantastic rookie year breakout. Kind of just floated around for 2 years after that with a few injuries. Then QB changes came and altered that course a bit. 

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58 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

It looks about the same at WR, if not a bit better to me. At RB it looks worse. Way worse. 

I wouldn’t say the WRs are better, but could be.  I do like Bell, Burke, Pickens, and Garrett somewhat.  Justyn Ross if he can get back healthy, I have my doubts.  A lot will like Olave, but not me.  I’m sure I’m missing some.  As for RB, after Hall there is Spiller, Gray, then a bunch of not much.  I’m not even high on Spiller.  QBs will be very good with Howell, Rattler, Slovis, plus others.  My sleeper is Ridder.  2023 will be great for RBs and a few high ceiling WRs (Boutte, Demas, Haselwood, and few others).

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24 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I wouldn’t say the WRs are better, but could be.  I do like Bell, Burke, Pickens, and Garrett somewhat.  Justyn Ross if he can get back healthy, I have my doubts.  A lot will like Olave, but not me.  I’m sure I’m missing some.  As for RB, after Hall there is Spiller, Gray, then a bunch of not much.  I’m not even high on Spiller.  QBs will be very good with Howell, Rattler, Slovis, plus others.  My sleeper is Ridder.  2023 will be great for RBs and a few high ceiling WRs (Boutte, Demas, Haselwood, and few others).

I love Pickens and Bell a lot. Ross is the dark horse, and I'm super hopeful for him. More so that I'm pulling for him. I'm not on the Olave hype same as you. The strength is in the WR's though, same as 2020. 

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1 hour ago, Zyphros said:

How are people viewing Evan Engram? He had a fantastic rookie year breakout. Kind of just floated around for 2 years after that with a few injuries. Then QB changes came and altered that course a bit. 

Underachiever that you can not count on (he had 9 games with less than 35 yards last year)...due to the current state of TEs he is worthy of a roster spot because there is upside here but you better have another option available. 

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1 hour ago, Zyphros said:

How are people viewing Evan Engram? He had a fantastic rookie year breakout. Kind of just floated around for 2 years after that with a few injuries. Then QB changes came and altered that course a bit. 

I would take a flyer on him for a 3rd but otherwise I'd probably let the current owners continue to be disappointed with him.  He can't block, which makes him one-dimensional and his usage predictable.  He has trouble staying healthy - last year was the first year in the last 3 he didn't miss any games.  He also drops too many passes, some of which were passes even a middle-aged out of shape couch potato like me could catch, which makes him unreliable even when healthy.  I wouldn't mind seeing the NYG replace him.

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2 hours ago, Zyphros said:

I love Pickens and Bell a lot. Ross is the dark horse, and I'm super hopeful for him. More so that I'm pulling for him. I'm not on the Olave hype same as you. The strength is in the WR's though, same as 2020. 

I believe I said I wasn’t an Olave guy.  QBs and WRs is the strength of 2022.

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Just now, barackdhouse said:

Right. That's what he was saying as well.

I get it that he also isn’t on the Olave train, but I read that “I’m not on the Olave hype the same as you”.  I said a lot will like Olave, but not me.   He thought I liked Olave.

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10 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I get it that he also isn’t on the Olave train, but I read that “I’m not on the Olave hype the same as you”.  I said a lot will like Olave, but not me.   He thought I liked Olave.

No. He didn't. He used poor grammar, but he was saying that like you, he also doesn't like Olave.

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I was recently trying to acquire more shares of Dillon with no luck and then the AJones news breaks and I am relieved to not be over saturated with Dillon on all of my rosters.

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4 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

No. He didn't. He used poor grammar, but he was saying that like you, he also doesn't like Olave.

I’m glad you could read what he meant to say.  It doesn’t freaking matter and this banter completely takes away from the points being made about 2022 prospects.

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4 minutes ago, BigAl21 said:

I was recently trying to acquire more shares of Dillon with no luck and then the AJones news breaks and I am relieved to not be over saturated with Dillon on all of my rosters.

I also tried to obtain Dillon a few times, making one trade for him.

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