Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

WR Tyreek Hill, KC


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Did CPS come and investigate and take your kids away?

It's possible this was an accident - but I'm not taking Hill's lawyer's word for it and anyone that does is a fool. But when you add 1+1+1+1, 4 is the logical conclusion. The kid broke his arm, the hospital called CPS (likely because they suspected something), CPS decided to remove the child from the home and also forced Hill to leave, the child has not been returned yet, the tape was released that shows Hill has some anger issues (at best), and the only thing in Hill's favor are hysterically scripted text messages - it all adds up to Hill being a bad actor here.

Now I don't think the NFL should act yet, and I don't think the Chiefs should do anything yet, and will admit there's some chance nothing "bad" happened here - but imo it does not look good for Hill at this point.

do  you know the first bolded to be fact?....that it was the hospital that called CPS because they suspected something?.....or are you just carelessly throwing that out there?....

if that is accurate and has been confirmed somewhere, I will apologize....but in the beginning I believe I also heard there was some turmoil involving the grand parents on both sides and that there may have been some reason to think one of the sides of the families made a report....I could be wrong, so if you found or saw where the hospital for sure called CPS....please provide a link....otherwise I am not sure its cool to just throw that out there....

and again.....CPS doesn't force a parent to leave.....they need to make sure the child is safe and it is up to the parents to figure out how to make that happen if they can't be around the child.....could that mean Hill leaves, you bet....but it could also means the kid goes with relatives or whatever and it not in the home.....it may sound like semantics, but Hill was not forced to leave by CPS....in this case, it is my understanding and I could be wrong, but the child was removed from custody of both parents and placed elsewhere.....which would mean HIll wasn't forced to leave....he maybe was not allowed to have contact, etc....there also may be some protective orders in place keeping Hill away from his fiance, and they may have decided that Hill would be the one to "leave", but it very easily could have been that Hill stayed and the fiance "left" and went to a hotel/relatives/friends/whatever.....in the end the result may seem the same, but how they got there isn't because CPS "forced" Hill to leave....I realize saying it in that way tries to help prove your point and kind of make it seem bad like "oh my god, he was even FORCED to leave the house"....but that isn't exactly how these things work, there are a lot of moving pieces that happen and the court/CPS doesn't really care who does what or who goes where as long as the protection of the child is the focus......and they do try to have as little "disruption" to the child as possible so there is an expectation that if its better for the child to stay in the home and the parents "leave" then that can happen....but I think in this case, the child was placed with other family members, but again, I could be wrong as I don't know for sure...

and obviously I agree it "doesn't look good for Hill at this point"....it hasn't since it started....but IMO it seems to be getting better (if there is such a thing)....he has come out and publicly denied all allegations (which everybody clamored for him to do).....there are early indications even if inaccurate that a hospital says it was an accident (not abuse).....and you have the wife admitting some abuse in texts (fake or not/whatever).....will agree that it is never a good look to have your kids removed, but it happens A LOT....and there is obviously some serious dysfunction and some really bad people/parents involved here.....and I feel bad for this child.....but from a Hill/football point of view, it actually seems to be going in a positive direction from where it started....if that matters....which it really doesn't.....

 

Edited by Stinkin Ref
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, essentially, there's no news. The investigation is ongoing, he's not allowed to participate in team activities, and the NFL is pretending nothing is going on.  Hill is a hold unless you want to take a moral stand, or think that his downfall is imminent and you want to move on. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

do  you know the first bolded to be fact?....that it was the hospital that called CPS because they suspected something?.....or are you just carelessly throwing that out there?....

 

Earlier in this thread it was stated that the child had a spiral fracture which is common with abuse and that's why the injury was investigated - I will try and find confirmation but let's not act like anything I'm saying here is evidence against Hill and therefore "careless" or "irresponsible"- you get the general idea as to the point (but then again you haven't exactly been unbiased in this thread.

Anyway I will retract/edit that part for now and until there is further news I doubt I'll even bother with this mess of a thread.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Earlier in this thread it was stated that the child had a spiral fracture which is common with abuse and that's why the injury was investigated - I will try and find confirmation but let's not act like anything I'm saying here is evidence against Hill and therefore "careless" or "irresponsible"- you get the general idea as to the point (but then again you haven't exactly been unbiased in this thread.

Anyway I will retract/edit that part for now and until there is further news I doubt I'll even bother with this mess of a thread.

 

fair enough....and I know exactly the point you were trying to make, lol, but just disagreed with how you were trying to make it....and while your edit doesn't probably have the pop you were going for, it is a much fairer way of saying things....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, zeeshan2 said:

[Rapoport] NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell says on #Chiefs WR Tyreek Hill that there is a court proceeding and “We will not interfere with that. The priority here is the young child.” The NFL will speak with Hill as soon as possible, though.

 

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1131234347011444737

What a total crock.  The NFL gives us another example of how they just make it up as they go along when it comes to 'protecting the shield'.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

what do you think Roger should do with Hill right now....

Exempt list would be a purely token, for-appearances gesture but would send the message that the league wants to be sure Hill is clear before letting him play again.  

The lack of any real downside for league or Hill if this is done makes it somewhat puzzling to me why it hasn’t been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Arodin said:

Exempt list would be a purely token, for-appearances gesture but would send the message that the league wants to be sure Hill is clear before letting him play again.  

The lack of any real downside for league or Hill if this is done makes it somewhat puzzling to me why it hasn’t been.

so be sure he is clear before letting him play again....instead of being sure he did something wrong before taking action....got it

if you think the recorded message is suspension worthy on it's own (which I do, I don't think any business wants their employees to talk like that, although many others probably do it's just not set up in a pre planned recording)..... I could see a case being made that they could/should suspend him right now for say 4 games because of what he said in a heated personal discussion that became public....a threat like that is not appropriate especially considering his past.....so a suspension for that is fine, with the thought that it could be increased pending the outcome of the other concerns....but it appears that the NFL is just waiting for all the rest to shake out and then will just act on things in there entirety....which I'm ok with as well since the situation still seems kind of fluid and the details are still uncertain....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

so be sure he is clear before letting him play again....instead of being sure he did something wrong before taking action....got it

 

To be clear, I don’t personally think that way, but Goodell and the league (and to an extent, the social mediaverse) have made it clear that they do. The league is historically committed to “we will pay him but we don’t have to let him play” regardless of the fairness thereof since the creation of the exempt list in the first place.

Innocent till proven guilty left the NFL back when Ben was suspended.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Arodin said:

Innocent till proven guilty left the NFL back when Ben was suspended.

It was never in the NFL, nor any other public or private company.  And shouldn't be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, tangfoot said:

It was never in the NFL, nor any other public or private company.  And shouldn't be.

We can disagree on interpretting history of course, but my impression of the Rozelle and even Tagliabue eras was that the league let the legal system handle things and didn’t do anything themselves till the courts had their say.

That led to some bad press near the end of Rozelle’s tenure, and Goodell coming in making personal conduct a focus...with the well-known lack of any consistency.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Arodin said:

To be clear, I don’t personally think that way, but Goodell and the league (and to an extent, the social mediaverse) have made it clear that they do. The league is historically committed to “we will pay him but we don’t have to let him play” regardless of the fairness thereof since the creation of the exempt list in the first place.

Innocent till proven guilty left the NFL back when Ben was suspended.

Explain to me again how the NFL has made anything clear about how they go about these things?

Edited by matuski
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Arodin said:

We can disagree on interpretting history of course, but my impression of the Rozelle and even Tagliabue eras was that the league let the legal system handle things and didn’t do anything themselves till the courts had their say.

That led to some bad press near the end of Rozelle’s tenure, and Goodell coming in making personal conduct a focus...with the well-known lack of any consistency.

The lack of consistency is really the biggest gripe in concerns to how the NFL handles any transgressions.  How is a multi-billion dollar business unable to set a firm code of conduct and how does the players union let Goodell get away with haphazardly punishing players based on his own discretion?

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, wgoldsph said:

The lack of consistency is really the biggest gripe in concerns to how the NFL handles any transgressions.  How is a multi-billion dollar business unable to set a firm code of conduct and how does the players union let Goodell get away with haphazardly punishing players based on his own discretion?

I’m actually in the league’s camp with this.  I don’t think you need a firm code of conduct policy that spells out all the specifics, like, for example, 4 game suspensions for each arm a player breaks (4 additional if a minor), 3 games if leaving menacing voicemails to the kid’s mom, multiplied by Pi if the player previously punched that kid while in his mom’s belly.  

There are guidelines and the league and the NFLPA have agreed Goodell makes the final call in sentencing.  I see nothing wrong with that.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

I’m actually in the league’s camp with this.  I don’t think you need a firm code of conduct policy that spells out all the specifics, like, for example, 4 game suspensions for each arm a player breaks (4 additional if a minor), 3 games if leaving menacing voicemails to the kid’s mom, multiplied by Pi if the player previously punched that kid while in his mom’s belly.  

There are guidelines and the league and the NFLPA have agreed Goodell makes the final call in sentencing.  I see nothing wrong with that.

Goodell is the same guy who can't get tape that tmz finds easily (I mean a casino has cameras everywhere Ray Rice!) so I don't trust him as the guy who gets the final word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

Goodell is the same guy who can't get tape that tmz finds easily (I mean a casino has cameras everywhere Ray Rice!) so I don't trust him as the guy who gets the final word.

TMZ paid someone for that tape. The NFL can not pay people for evidence.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, nightmare said:

TMZ paid someone for that tape. The NFL can not pay people for evidence.

They can't hire a private investigator?

 

We're getting off off topic so back to hill, I feel like even if he plays he won't be as good as last season because losing Hunt seemed to hurt that offense as a whole.  I forget what the numbers were, but over in the Malhomes thread they were saying how he went from Manning's historic season numbers to "just" top 3 fantasy QB numbers after Hunt being cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

They can't hire a private investigator?

 

We're getting off off topic so back to hill, I feel like even if he plays he won't be as good as last season because losing Hunt seemed to hurt that offense as a whole.  I forget what the numbers were, but over in the Malhomes thread they were saying how he went from Manning's historic season numbers to "just" top 3 fantasy QB numbers after Hunt being cut.

T Hill could still do 1300/9 with P Mahomes "only" being a top 5 QB. They also lost S Watkins weeks 13-17.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bet this won't be the first case when a girlfriend or ex records his boyfriend speaking stupid things.

If Hill will get suspension for the talk, it will be a powerful weapon others might use also? Give me this much money or I release you talking stupid? I think as horrific the talk was, it's not proving anything, but Tyreek talks pretty damn stupid things without thinking! He won't be the only one in this high-class mensa meeting society we know by the name of NFL. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I'm not an expert on how all these processes shake out or what/if anything can be taken away from how long things are taking....reunification of a family can sometimes take a long time....at this point you would think they have probably gotten about as much as they are going to get through their investigation ( I could be wrong)....I am assuming there are some things going on behind the scenes in terms of trying return the child to the custody of one or both parents.....parenting classes, counseling, anger management, etc.....CPS will usually exhaust all possible resources to try and reunite the family....they are also kind of directed by trying to establish a sense of security/stability for the child.....meaning they don't generally just want to have the child dangling out there in a temporary placement with relatives or family friends, foster care, etc....at some point they will need to decide if the goal is for the child to be returned to the custody of the parents or not....they will give them some time to do so....supervised visits, family counseling in place, etc....could take a long time...

with that said....I think a realistic outcome could be that the child is returned to the custody of one or both of the parents at some point and that no criminal charges are filed against Hill....which then IMO puts the Chiefs and the NFL in an interesting spot....he has denied ever abusing his son and if no criminal charges are filed you then have a situation where this turns into a private CPS family matter only and we may not ever get any actual details of what did or didn't occur.....and I am not sure if the NFL will be able to gather/verify information or details that people will be wanting to know....so you could have a situation where the child is returned, no criminal charges are filed, and "all" you have is the pre planned recorded phone call......so while the phone call itself in my mind deserves some type of consequence, the debate will be how much of a consequence from the Chiefs and the NFL.....many will want to include the "totality" of the situation in their opinion (and in the court of public opinion) and will not be able to weigh the phone call on its own....

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Still 0 real news. Is there any limitation on how long this investigation could take? Or is there a scenario where they know he did something bad, can't prove it, so they just say "It's ongoing" indefinitely knowing that the NFL is waiting on some sort of resolution?

Wouldn't surprise me. They are searching, and when they are sure they can't find anything, they are ready to forgive!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, steelers1080 said:

Still 0 real news. Is there any limitation on how long this investigation could take? Or is there a scenario where they know he did something bad, can't prove it, so they just say "It's ongoing" indefinitely knowing that the NFL is waiting on some sort of resolution?

 

NFL investigations are incredibly thorough.  They are pain staking in how much they work to corroborate stories and turn over rocks.  The police just don’t have the resources to investigate this way except in the highest priority/profile cases.  The NFL investigation will end when they are convinced that there is no new evidence available.  Until then it’s just a waiting game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, steelers1080 said:

Still 0 real news. Is there any limitation on how long this investigation could take? Or is there a scenario where they know he did something bad, can't prove it, so they just say "It's ongoing" indefinitely knowing that the NFL is waiting on some sort of resolution?

you kind of technically have 3 different things going on....

1. Criminal Investigation: was closed, but then reopened.....have not heard anything about closing again or pressing charges.....so it's ongoing still we assume....kind of surprised we haven't heard anything here.

2. CPS Investigation/Intervention: once CPS became involved they focus on making sure the child is safe first and foremost and then they start working on putting things in place to reunite the family (if possible). This could take a long time, and technically none of this information will be made public or should even really be given to the NFL, no matter the outcome good or bad. 

3. NFL investigation: maybe hasn't even started yet, nor should it really until 1 and 2 are complete.  If "nothing" happens in #1, technically the NFL should not have access to any of the information in #2.  If you are involved with CPS it is really nobody else's business, including your employer. If you chose to let them have information/details from #2 that is up to you, but since it is a private family matter involving a child, details will not be made "public".  

#1 is kind of the straw that stirs the drink here.  If no criminal charges are filed, then it becomes a family matter only.  Sure Uncle Rog can do whatever he wants, but technically it will only be  based on what the family tells him or things like the taped phone call that somehow become public.  Any info/results obtained in #2 by CPS will not be shared with anybody unless the family chooses to do so. So thats why if no criminal charges are filed, you may be looking at the NFL technically "only" having the phone call.  The possible reunification of the the family, that timeline, custody decisions, etc. is nobody else's business. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bronco Billy said:

NFL investigations are incredibly thorough.  They are pain staking in how much they work to corroborate stories and turn over rocks.  The police just don’t have the resources to investigate this way except in the highest priority/profile cases.  The NFL investigation will end when they are convinced that there is no new evidence available.  Until then it’s just a waiting game.

I thought Goodell said that they're waiting on the police investigation? I haven't read anything about there even being an NFL investigation yet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Young 8 said:

He's at some public park playing with his son so maybe the investigation is over.

https://twitter.com/KcChiefs1972_/status/1135648119994093570

This is at least partially good news.  To me this means at this point there is not enough for a protective order barring T. Hill from his son.  It could come in the future, but at this point if that is T. Hill that is good news.  When we have fractures caused by parents, LEA, will oftentimes put a protective order in place from perpetrator to child.

The most likely scenario this is, knowing the little information we know, is that this is a community visitation being supervised by an agency.  When DCS/CPS/DCFS removes a child from a parent they immediately set up visitation.  The visitation order that my state employs 90-95% of the time go in this order:

1. supervised visitation at agency

2. supervised visitation in community 

3. supervised by third party (relative/friend)**

4. unsupervised visitation

5. overnight visitation

 

So if the child is still removed from the parents care T. Hill most likely moved up from the agency visitation to community.  Which shows progress/cooperation.  I think it was stinkin ref who mentioned it, but child cases are confidential and we would only know the information the parents choose to reveal, so it can be hard sometimes to speculate on where we are.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This, gentlemen, as they say, is where the plot thickens.

😶

https://twitter.com/ClayWendler/status/1136711650667577344

Report from @SportsRadio810 on @cheetah case: Investigators are looking into Crystal Espinal potentially suffering from Munchhausen syndrome. I.E. she makes stuff up about children to get attention. It often leads to a child being harmed.

 

Edited by Young 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Young 8 said:

This, gentlemen, as they say, is where the plot thickens.

😶

https://twitter.com/ClayWendler/status/1136711650667577344

Report from @SportsRadio810 on @cheetah case: Investigators are looking into Crystal Espinal potentially suffering from Munchhausen syndrome. I.E. she makes stuff up about children to get attention. It often leads to a child being harmed.

 

Wuuuuut? Poor child in the middle of this mess

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Young 8 said:

This, gentlemen, as they say, is where the plot thickens.

😶

https://twitter.com/ClayWendler/status/1136711650667577344

Report from @SportsRadio810 on @cheetah case: Investigators are looking into Crystal Espinal potentially suffering from Munchhausen syndrome. I.E. she makes stuff up about children to get attention. It often leads to a child being harmed.

 

Munchhausen by proxy. Most well known example is probably Dee Dee/Gypsy Rose Blanchard

https://www.biography.com/news/gypsy-rose-blanchard-mother-dee-dee-murder

Edited by JoeSteeler
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Young 8 said:

This, gentlemen, as they say, is where the plot thickens.

😶

https://twitter.com/ClayWendler/status/1136711650667577344

Report from @SportsRadio810 on @cheetah case: Investigators are looking into Crystal Espinal potentially suffering from Munchhausen syndrome. I.E. she makes stuff up about children to get attention. It often leads to a child being harmed.

 

oooof…..that is bad news, someone my wife works with has this, its nuts

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Tyreek could get off (mostly) scot-free!

However, even if Crystal is to blame for everything that’s happened, what’s with the  damning audio call?

Well if this women is a chronic liar/crazy (I'm not trying to be mean but just running with the idea if she really does have that condition) then maybe that explains why he was so freaking ugly to her. Again not saying its justified, but it would explain possibly how he got to that point with her. Most all men (and women) do have a breaking point....clearly they both need counseling and probably aren't very compatible as a couple 

Edited by ffmail4me
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Tyreek could get off (mostly) scot-free!

However, even if Crystal is to blame for everything that’s happened, what’s with the  damning audio call?

More an illegal tape than an audio call, and she recorded it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Young 8 said:

More an illegal tape than an audio call, and she recorded it.

 

not sure the statutes in that state, but in my state the only standard for taping someone is that one party is aware it is going on.  So if the female taped this it would be admissible.  I want to say I don't live in their state though so not sure on their guidelines.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://twitter.com/1_ChiefsKingdom/status/1136768621806407681

Based upon information and belief, my position is that Tyreek Hill will play in 2019. The news today on Espinal is just the tip. Her father, along with herself, are under the legal eye of the law for possible extortion.

 

And apparently this ChiefsKingdom is a reliable source

https://twitter.com/ClayWendler/status/1136776340844290049

Please don't doubt Marty. He's the dude who broke the Gunther firing on the internet. He knew Pioli was getting fired when everyone swore he was getting an extension. He had Tyreek avoiding DA charges an hour before it broke. Martin Mack = The Truth

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First and foremost.....I hope the child and the children on the way are safe moving forward....there is not much that can be done to change what has happened so far, but hopefully resources and services are in place to help all those involved moving forward

with that said....if these recent findings explain some of what has been going on, I hope all the people that posted earlier in this thread come back and “check in”....I got slammed in here for simply asking for people to let the process play itself out....all the “come on man he did it guys”...need to come post....but they won’t....

should he have said what he said on the tape....nope....but if the circumstances of her condition is what he was dealing with (without any support or education on how to deal with it possibly)....and she was intentionally pushing buttons before this “taped call”...you could almost see him getting to the point of saying what he said.....she was driving the bus here a little....

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

First and foremost.....I hope the child and the children on the way are safe moving forward....there is not much that can be done to change what has happened so far, but hopefully resources and services are in place to help all those involved moving forward

with that said....if these recent findings explain some of what has been going on, I hope all the people that posted earlier in this thread come back and “check in”....I got slammed in here for simply asking for people to let the process play itself out....all the “come on man he did it guys”...need to come post....but they won’t....

should he have said what he said on the tape....nope....but if the circumstances of her condition is what he was dealing with (without any support or education on how to deal with it possibly)....and she was intentionally pushing buttons before this “taped call”...you could almost see him getting to the point of saying what he said.....she was driving the bus here a little....

If it turns out to be the mother (or something else), I'll admit I was wrong. I always said it needed to play out as well, but to me it seemed very likely he had done something. If that's not the case then I was clearly wrong. I still have some doubts he's completely innocent here - even after being cleared legally.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Joe Bryant changed the title to WR Tyreek Hill, KC

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
  • Create New...