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WR Tyreek Hill, KC


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24 minutes ago, Mr. Peterson said:

So when is the time to sell Hill?  Now?  When he’s been cleared but before Goodell can suspend him?  After his suspension?  When he officially comes back?  

Most likely if you try to sell now, you're going to get somebody who wants a discount. If that's the case, I'd rather keep him.

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33 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

Most likely if you try to sell now, you're going to get somebody who wants a discount. If that's the case, I'd rather keep him.

I tried to buy before the rumors of T. Hill going to training camp and the news that no criminal investigation was open and was asked for OBJ for T. Hill.  Some people never chose to discount him, which is their choice.

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20 hours ago, joey said:

Yeah, I don’t understand how it seems so outrageous that some fantasy owners prefer to avoid players with off the field “issues”. It’s simple risk tolerance.

Personally, I’ve held Hill this whole time in FFPC instead of selling low during this time of uncertainty, but that’s both because I’m willing to take the risk in order to have a top5-ish WR, as well as the fact that my WR Core is very thin behind him. 

just keep in mind that guys with problems usually screw up more than once. It is simple risk tolerance and so next year if screws up again I don't need to worry about it. I much prefer really clean, good guys like a Barkley or a McCaffrey. Everyone is commenting on this one specific situation and not accounting for the fact that he could screw up again. He obviously didn't learn/change after his initial incident, what makes you think he will now. Give me the risk avoidance all day. I can win without him

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7 minutes ago, Aunt Jemima said:

just keep in mind that guys with problems usually screw up more than once. It is simple risk tolerance and so next year if screws up again I don't need to worry about it. I much prefer really clean, good guys like a Barkley or a McCaffrey. Everyone is commenting on this one specific situation and not accounting for the fact that he could screw up again. He obviously didn't learn/change after his initial incident, what makes you think he will now. Give me the risk avoidance all day. I can win without him

If it turns out that he in fact didn't do anything wrong, then maybe he has learned/changed.  :shrug:

If you want to say the phone call makes it seem like he hasn't learned/changed....I guess you don't see her condition/mental issues as a mitigating factor that could have led him to say something like that in a "pre planned recorded call" where she is trying to push buttons in order to get that or some similar reaction out of him.  Hill has probably been dealing with things/conversations like that for awhile and maybe wasn't really educated or sure how to handle things. She had an agenda when she recorded that call. 

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1 hour ago, Stinkin Ref said:

If it turns out that he in fact didn't do anything wrong, then maybe he has learned/changed.  :shrug:

If you want to say the phone call makes it seem like he hasn't learned/changed....I guess you don't see her condition/mental issues as a mitigating factor that could have led him to say something like that in a "pre planned recorded call" where she is trying to push buttons in order to get that or some similar reaction out of him.  Hill has probably been dealing with things/conversations like that for awhile and maybe wasn't really educated or sure how to handle things. She had an agenda when she recorded that call. 

all I'm saying is I sold early on Aaron Hernandez, Justin Blackmon, Josh Gordon and didn't wind up upset. Usually where there is smoke there is fire and normally a guy with problems doesn't change. I may be over simplifying but it also allows me to spend time on analysis of other players, why do I need this additional headache?

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Still no official news on what the NFL plans to do. My guess based on previous suspensions is that Hill gets a max suspension of 6 games, and a minimum of 0. And that the punishment could be handed out in 2020 if he appeals.  I took him in the 8th round of a best ball draft, lots of risk but still lots of upside. 

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http://www.810whb.com/2019/06/10/whb-exclusive-tyreek-hill-did-not-break-sons-arm/

WHB Exclusive: Tyreek Hill did not break son’s arm

By Kevin Kietzman

Chiefs wide receiver Tyreek Hill did not break his three-year-old son’s arm last January, and neither did his fiancée, Crystal Espinal.  According to multiple sources close to the investigation, Hill and Espinal were cleared of any role in the broken bone injury almost immediately after the investigation began in March.

Investigators quickly agreed with the medical staff that the broken bone was the result of typical accident involving a rambunctious toddler, consistent with reaching out to brace for a fall.

The investigation into Hill and Espinal began weeks after the broken bone was first treated, when Espinal, according to sources, asked a third party to call authorities and tell them that Hill was responsible for the boy’s injury.  Espinal has admitted she was trying to shame Hill because in her mind, he had become too controlling and abusive again in their long and stormy relationship.

Hill and Espinal are currently separated and neither has custody of the boy at this time.

The investigation into the couple’s parenting accelerated when Overland Park police checked on the boy in March and found bruises and welts on his body.  Both Hill and Espinal have admitted to investigators that they spanked the 3 year old with their hands and a belt, but prosecutors can’t determine for sure which parent, or if both, went too far.

In April Johnson County District Attorney Steve Howe held a press conference to announce criminal charges wouldn’t be brought against Hill or Espinal but stated he believed a crime was committed against the boy and it was believed the crime was about the broken arm.  It was not.  Howe’s team has halted working on the case as they still can’t bring charges for bruising and harming the boy.

During the news conference Howe said several times that he could not comment about any injuries to the boy whose privacy is protected by law.

Howe did not respond to a request for comment and Chiefs President Mark Donovan declined to comment on this story.

KCTV5 obtained audio in which Espinal secretly recorded a conversation between her and Hill discussing their son’s injury.  According to KCTV, the recording was an attempt by Espinal to gain leverage in the relationship and assure her that Hill would always financially support her.  The sources also told Sports Radio 810 that Espinal shared the audio with a person close to her because she feared for her life.

On the recording, Hill, who was previously convicted of a felony after battering Espinal, can be heard telling her, “You need to be terrified of me too, dumb #####,” after she told him their son was terrified of Hill.

Hill is currently employed by the Chiefs but was suspended from team activities after club officials heard the recording.

Shortly after the suspension by the team, Hill’s attorney sent a letter to the NFL offices, the Chiefs and the NFLPA to explain much of what was said on the recording.  While the letter attempts to deny many of the things asserted in the audio, it does admit Hill’s comment that Espinal should be “terrified” of him is inexcusable.  The attorney explains in the letter that Hill has been attending individual and family counseling to improve his life and become a better parent.

The Kansas Department for Children and Families continues its investigation in the case of the bruising and welts, but since the case involves a minor its documents are sealed.

At the league’s Spring League Meeting in May, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said the league is investigating but they are waiting on the DCF case to resolve before making any decisions regarding Hill’s future in football.  There have been many recent cases in which the league hands out discipline even though no one has been charged or found guilty of a crime.

Chiefs mandatory mini-camp is this week in Kansas City, stay tuned to Sports Radio 810 WHB for updates on this developing story.

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41 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

Yikes...those that sold him for a sandwich may be in the hurt if he comes out of this unscathed.

The recording will get him 2-4 games but he's staying a chief at this point which is huge for his dynasty value. Something else could easily come out in the coming weeks. At this pount though he's looking at 2-4 games imo. 

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1 hour ago, King of the Jungle said:

Yikes...those that sold him for a sandwich may be in the hurt if he comes out of this unscathed.

I sold OJ Howard and 1.6 to buy Hill this summer...then panicked when things looked at their worse and sold him for a 2nd that turned into Isabella. I am kicking myself every day over it too. But I did get him in another dynasty league for a 2020 3rd and moved Golladay for him in 1 other league. I have no idea what I'm doing sometimes ;)

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I think when you have a talent like him in the system he’s in and attached to the quarterback he’s attached to you don’t make any panic moves and trade him. You just sink with him if he goes down because if you trade him for pennies on the dollar you’ve locked in a loss on him instead of holding and potentially reaping the rewards of keeping him. He’s sort of like the stock market you can sell and lock in the loss and acquire lesser assets that will never provide you the return he could if you just didn’t sell.  Sometimes four quarters don’t equal a dollar. 

I have him in two leagues and I’ve held him since this has all begun rather than sell him for what I’ve been offered. I’d rather keep him and take the chance he’s playing this year than lock in a loss and trade him for an unknown draft pick or Alshon Jeffrey or someone like that who’s more than likely not gonna help my team on his best days and instead just clog up a roster spot on my team

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19 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I sold OJ Howard and 1.6 to buy Hill this summer...then panicked when things looked at their worse and sold him for a 2nd that turned into Isabella. I am kicking myself every day over it too. But I did get him in another dynasty league for a 2020 3rd and moved Golladay for him in 1 other league. I have no idea what I'm doing sometimes ;)

Lol...nobody can see the future and much of this hobby is speculation and luck. He is not out of the woods completely but things look better for him today compared to several weeks ago.

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If he gets through this with a small suspension then I will definitely have sold him for a loss relative to what his new market will likely settle at. But I managed to get big pieces back in the 3 cases I sold him, and they are all profitable moves in the longterm relative to the fact I originally got him off waivers. That's lipstick on a pig but he could still miss significant time. I may lose here when it's over but I did minimize my losses compared to what would have happened if he were to get the ban. Which no I don't think is in play anymore. Unless he effs up again after this, which isn't out of the question. Can't wait for the 30 for 30 though. I hope the kid's childhood improves.

When I sold him I foresaw this possible outcome and decided I was ok with a minimal loss like this. By minimal I don't mean non significant. My teams will not have improved by me shipping him, if he gets thru this. It absolutely is a hit. But I decided I was ok with that hit relative to the risk I measured that Hill would either be banned or suspended for a long time. Or perhaps cut. I can own being wrong on this. 

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14 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

If he gets through this with a small suspension then I will definitely have sold him for a loss relative to what his new market will likely settle at. But I managed to get big pieces back in the 3 cases I sold him, and they are all profitable moves in the longterm relative to the fact I originally got him off waivers. That's lipstick on a pig but he could still miss significant time. I may lose here when it's over but I did minimize my losses compared to what would have happened if he were to get the ban. Which no I don't think is in play anymore. Unless he effs up again after this, which isn't out of the question. Can't wait for the 30 for 30 though. I hope the kid's childhood improves.

When I sold him I foresaw this possible outcome and decided I was ok with a minimal loss like this. By minimal I don't mean non significant. My teams will not have improved by me shipping him, if he gets thru this. It absolutely is a hit. But I decided I was ok with that hit relative to the risk I measured that Hill would either be banned or suspended for a long time. Or perhaps cut. I can own being wrong on this. 

Was a good decision at the time given information at hand.  He still may get suspended based on what we know.  As I understand it CPS is still investigating.  Given Tyreek’s history, he’s a ticking time bomb to assault someone else.

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14 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

If he gets through this with a small suspension then I will definitely have sold him for a loss relative to what his new market will likely settle at. But I managed to get big pieces back in the 3 cases I sold him, and they are all profitable moves in the longterm relative to the fact I originally got him off waivers. That's lipstick on a pig but he could still miss significant time. I may lose here when it's over but I did minimize my losses compared to what would have happened if he were to get the ban. Which no I don't think is in play anymore. Unless he effs up again after this, which isn't out of the question. Can't wait for the 30 for 30 though. I hope the kid's childhood improves.

When I sold him I foresaw this possible outcome and decided I was ok with a minimal loss like this. By minimal I don't mean non significant. My teams will not have improved by me shipping him, if he gets thru this. It absolutely is a hit. But I decided I was ok with that hit relative to the risk I measured that Hill would either be banned or suspended for a long time. Or perhaps cut. I can own being wrong on this. 

Lot of stuff to play out still, we'll see what the league does but a multi-game suspension is still pretty likely. I also wouldn't be surprised if he gets the franchise tag next year instead of that sizable extension that was supposedly in the works prior to all this news coming out. I sold him high in one league and super-low in another, but it's just magic football at the end of the day and I won't lose sleep over it. Based on the info leaked and his prior history, Tyreek seems to have a very high probability to be back in the news for the wrong reasons soon enough as it is.

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26 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

Was a good decision at the time given information at hand.  He still may get suspended based on what we know.  As I understand it CPS is still investigating.  Given Tyreek’s history, he’s a ticking time bomb to assault someone else.

It is unlikely they are still investigating.  It is more likely the investigation is over, but services were court ordered due to the report the child was removed from the home.  

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Somewhat glossed over in the recent article that said Hill was not responsible for breaking his son's arm is other information in the article that indicates he and his fiance were under investigation for the child having bruises and welts on his body.

Quote

The investigation into the couple’s parenting accelerated when Overland Park police checked on the boy in March and found bruises and welts on his body.  Both Hill and Espinal have admitted to investigators that they spanked the 3 year old with their hands and a belt, but prosecutors can’t determine for sure which parent, or if both, went too far.

LINK

There's still stuff the league can point to as improper behavior, especially if Hill admitted to using a belt to investigators. ADP admitted to similar behavior and missed 15 games. Do pictures of ADP's kid trump audio of Hill's threat to his fiance? Who knows?

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19 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Somewhat glossed over in the recent article that said Hill was not responsible for breaking his son's arm is other information in the article that indicates he and his fiance were under investigation for the child having bruises and welts on his body.

LINK

There's still stuff the league can point to as improper behavior, especially if Hill admitted to using a belt to investigators. ADP admitted to similar behavior and missed 15 games. Do pictures of ADP's kid trump audio of Hill's threat to his fiance? Who knows?

if you have time....still waiting for your answer on how Hill is a multi time offender....?

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7 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

if you have time....still waiting for your answer on how Hill is a multi time offender....?

Really? He strangled his pregnant fiancé and now is involved in another incident involving her and that child. 

Put another way, if he didn’t have the first one incident, the second one might be looked at differently. He has a history that dates back several years. 

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1 hour ago, cobalt_27 said:

Was a good decision at the time given information at hand.  He still may get suspended based on what we know.  As I understand it CPS is still investigating.  Given Tyreek’s history, he’s a ticking time bomb to assault someone else.

if you say this now....one could argue, you need to have also said it before he was drafted into the NFL....because "technically" from what we know right now nothing has really changed...:shrug:

I think ticking time bomb is a little bit of an exaggeration.....and maybe one thing I might take from all this is that Hill, having gone through all this, may mind his P's and Q's moving forward more than other players....being on his "best behavior" may be a priority now more than ever....especially since services have been put into place and it appears his fiance with mental issues will maybe not be a major part of his life moving forward or he has the education and support to deal with her and maybe she also gets the help she needs...they have children on the way, so there may always be a connection....but the games, jockeying and positioning within the relationship and sabotaging each other should be over.....

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

Really? He strangled his pregnant fiancé and now is involved in another incident involving her and that child. 

Put another way, if he didn’t have the first one incident, the second one might be looked at differently. He has a history that dates back several years. 

you used multi time "offender" several times....he has had only one offense....

seems that you are labeling what has been going on here as another "offense" by Hill....while the information we have now seems to indicate he may in fact have done nothing wrong....especially to labeled a "multi time offender"...it may be semantics to you, and you consider what has been happening as an "offense" by Hill....but really at this point there is no other offense.....and if you factor in her issues with the pre planned recorded call....you could even see a possible explanation for him losing his cool and saying something like he did in the tape as she was driving that bus with an agenda...

 

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and as the article says with regards to the spanking and belt...we don't know that it was Hill that went "too far"....and if she does have the condition mentioned above, and some of the comments that have been made about her doing things to try and set him up/shame him....it seems reasonable that she easily could have been the one that went too far.... she admits to abusing the child....Tyreek denies it....

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4 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

you used multi time "offender" several times....he has had only one offense....

seems that you are labeling what has been going on here as another "offense" by Hill....while the information we have now seems to indicate he may in fact have done nothing wrong....especially to labeled a "multi time offender"...it may be semantics to you, and you consider what has been happening as an "offense" by Hill....but really at this point there is no other offense.....and if you factor in her issues with the pre planned recorded call....you could even see a possible explanation for him losing his cool and saying something like he did in the tape as she was driving that bus with an agenda...

 

I am giving my perspective to what THE LEAGUE will view as a second offense. We already know they don’t care what the legal system thinks. They will look to punish Hill as someone that already has a history office inappropriate behavior. 

As for the fiancé, all we know is that there has been talk that she may have a behavioral issue. No one has determined that she does. 

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7 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I am giving my perspective to what THE LEAGUE will view as a second offense. We already know they don’t care what the legal system thinks. They will look to punish Hill as someone that already has a history office inappropriate behavior. 

As for the fiancé, all we know is that there has been talk that she may have a behavioral issue. No one has determined that she does. 

thats somewhat fair....it's kind of funny because in most of my comments, I am also trying to come from the league's perspective in that if I am the league and I do hand down a suspension....what can I confidently say is the basis for the suspension....I realize, that can be all over the map as far as the league is concerned....hell for Brady it was " more probable than not that he was at least "generally aware" of the inappropriate activities"....so who knows....

if he is allowed to go to the upcoming camp it should say a lot about the positioning the league will take....

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27 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

and as the article says with regards to the spanking and belt...we don't know that it was Hill that went "too far"....and if she does have the condition mentioned above, and some of the comments that have been made about her doing things to try and set him up/shame him....it seems reasonable that she easily could have been the one that went too far.... 

I will use the audio tape as EXHIBIT A.  If Hill did not do anything, his first response would have been to declare his innocence over and over again.  But he didn’t. His response was to tell her she needed to be scared too. If he hadn’t laid hands on the child, he would have denied that over and over, too.

if I were involved in a DCYF investigation and basically my partner was either setting me up or in the process of breaking up with me, THE LAST thing I would be doing is keeping quiet. I would have been doing everything I could to keep my partner from spending excessive time or getting custody of my kid. Hill didn’t go that route either. It sounds like the plan for in investigation was to mostly keep quiet and not divulge much information. If she really was the psychotic one and the one that was the perpetrator, then the appropriate response would have been to rat her out. He could have done that after the tape came out but didn’t then either. 

I would put the chance that Hill was not involved at close to nothing, and even so then he was covering up for someone that was responsible. Either one of those would be considered as a violation to the NFL’s personal conduct policy (engaging in actions that result in at risk behavior dangerous to others including a child).

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7 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I will use the audio tape as EXHIBIT A.  If Hill did not do anything, his first response would have been to declare his innocence over and over again.  But he didn’t. His response was to tell her she needed to be scared too. If he hadn’t laid hands on the child, he would have denied that over and over, too.

if I were involved in a DCYF investigation and basically my partner was either setting me up or in the process of breaking up with me, THE LAST thing I would be doing is keeping quiet. I would have been doing everything I could to keep my partner from spending excessive time or getting custody of my kid. Hill didn’t go that route either. It sounds like the plan for in investigation was to mostly keep quiet and not divulge much information. If she really was the psychotic one and the one that was the perpetrator, then the appropriate response would have been to eat her out. He could have done that after the tape came out but didn’t then either. 

I would put the chance that Hill was not involved at close to nothing, and even so then he was covering up for someone that was responsible. Either one of those would be considered as a violation to the NFL’s personal conduct policy (engaging in actions that result in at risk behavior dangerous to others including a child).

The problem with a lot of this content is that we have no idea what T. Hill and his lawyer said in court against the mother. The court system would be the place to factually attack a persons character.

Just because he didn’t conduct a public interview doesn’t mean he is guilty. Most attorneys advise not to talk about the facts and evidence of the case before the trial.

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1 hour ago, Anarchy99 said:

I will use the audio tape as EXHIBIT A.  If Hill did not do anything, his first response would have been to declare his innocence over and over again.  But he didn’t. His response was to tell her she needed to be scared too. If he hadn’t laid hands on the child, he would have denied that over and over, too.

if I were involved in a DCYF investigation and basically my partner was either setting me up or in the process of breaking up with me, THE LAST thing I would be doing is keeping quiet. I would have been doing everything I could to keep my partner from spending excessive time or getting custody of my kid. Hill didn’t go that route either. It sounds like the plan for in investigation was to mostly keep quiet and not divulge much information. If she really was the psychotic one and the one that was the perpetrator, then the appropriate response would have been to eat her out. He could have done that after the tape came out but didn’t then either. 

I would put the chance that Hill was not involved at close to nothing, and even so then he was covering up for someone that was responsible. Either one of those would be considered as a violation to the NFL’s personal conduct policy (engaging in actions that result in at risk behavior dangerous to others including a child).

debating on screaming from the rooftops was done a long time ago in this thread.....at the beginning he hadn't even been accused of anything so there wasn't anything to scream about....Hill did come out and deny ever abusing his child....if he didn't do it fast enough for some people and they want to make that a part of him being "guilty" of something, so be it, but it appears those that did so and continue to do so are being proven wrong around almost every corner....

Hill is not you or me....none of us have any idea what he was going through during all this behind the scenes....so to just self righteously expect him to react and scream the way "you or I would" is ill advised and uneducated.....who knows what was going on and how anybody else would respond.....plus he was probably also being advised not to say anything once things started....

people also need to get over the fact that we as the public get to know everything.....once this was no longer a criminal matter.....none of the CPS stuff really should even be revealed....so there is no reason to scream about things from the treetops.....and with investigations going on, he is not going to just start publicly talking crap about her, etc.....I can see not doing that and just letting the process shake out and show my innocence and or/her guilt later.....you could say he handled that maybe better than most of us would.....he has yet to publicly talk bad about her....

the tape: he admitted at the same time he denied ever abusing his child that he made a mistake and shouldn't have said what he said....if you choose not to factor in that she admits to trying to "shame him" and basically set him up....which is what people are usually trying to go after when they pre plan to tape a phone call, then that is up to you.....but she was trying to push his buttons and get him upset, knowing she was taping the call and hoping to be able to have something to hang over him.....so yeah he shouldn't have said it.....but people say stupid #### when they get mad and especially when they are getting set up and somebody else is driving the bus....

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5 minutes ago, smbkrypt24 said:

The problem with a lot of this content is that we have no idea what T. Hill and his lawyer said in court against the mother. The court system would be the place to factually attack a persons character.

Just because he didn’t conduct a public interview doesn’t mean he is guilty. Most attorneys advise not to talk about the facts and evidence of the case before the trial.

But if someone I was involved with recorded any of our conversations, the first thing I would say is I never touched the kids, not you should be scared of me, too.

i understand there are way different thresholds for police, state invoked family, and NFL investigations. IMO, the league has ample evidence to throw the book at Hill, even with other recent reports that the fiancé has her own issues or acted inappropriately. 

The league’s perspective is what will matter the most in terms of Hill’s availability to be on the football field for actual games. We know (at least for now) the legal system will not be pulling Hill off the field as he will not be spending any time in county lock up.

Based o how the NFL has handled other incidents, I still think they will act and suspend Hill. But we are still always away from seeing what the league will do.

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1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

But if someone I was involved with recorded any of our conversations, the first thing I would say is I never touched the kids, not you should be scared of me, too.

i understand there are way different thresholds for police, state invoked family, and NFL investigations. IMO, the league has ample evidence to throw the book at Hill, even with other recent reports that the fiancé has her own issues or acted inappropriately. 

The league’s perspective is what will matter the most in terms of Hill’s availability to be on the football field for actual games. We know (at least for now) the legal system will not be pulling Hill off the field as he will not be spending any time in county lock up.

Based o how the NFL has handled other incidents, I still think they will act and suspend Hill. But we are still always away from seeing what the league will do.

thats easy to say if you KNOW YOU ARE BEING RECORDED.....

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19 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

But if someone I was involved with recorded any of our conversations, the first thing I would say is I never touched the kids, not you should be scared of me, too.

i understand there are way different thresholds for police, state invoked family, and NFL investigations. IMO, the league has ample evidence to throw the book at Hill, even with other recent reports that the fiancé has her own issues or acted inappropriately. 

The league’s perspective is what will matter the most in terms of Hill’s availability to be on the football field for actual games. We know (at least for now) the legal system will not be pulling Hill off the field as he will not be spending any time in county lock up.

Based o how the NFL has handled other incidents, I still think they will act and suspend Hill. But we are still always away from seeing what the league will do.

Sorry for not being clear.  I was responding to the part about if it was you, you would have spoken up by now against Ms. Espinal.  Essentially damning his silence.  That is where I will say the facts need only be said at the court hearing, there is no reason to go public with that information unless the end game is more about attacking the other person.  Being silent, like Hill was, was the appropriate move.

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Yes, I know this is only speculation, but...

Suppose you're Tyreek Hill and you have a child with a woman who is mentally unstable with twins on the way. After your son breaks his arm in an accident, she arranges for a third party to make a call to investigators and falsely accuse you of being responsible for the child's injury, derailing contract talks and potentially threatening your career.

Would your frustration with the whole situation explain saying something along the lines of "you should be terrified of me too, #####"?

I know I've said much worse with far less provocation.

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21 minutes ago, JamieMurphy said:

Yes, I know this is only speculation, but...

Suppose you're Tyreek Hill and you have a child with a woman who is mentally unstable with twins on the way. After your son breaks his arm in an accident, she arranges for a third party to make a call to investigators and falsely accuse you of being responsible for the child's injury, derailing contract talks and potentially threatening your career.

Would your frustration with the whole situation explain saying something along the lines of "you should be terrified of me too, #####"?

I know I've said much worse with far less provocation.

Never thought of it this way.  Didn't think about all the factors, but regardless, If I ever told my girlfriend/fiance/wife this I would expect that relationship to be over.  it would never be acceptable for me to say that.

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19 minutes ago, smbkrypt24 said:

Never thought of it this way.  Didn't think about all the factors, but regardless, If I ever told my girlfriend/fiance/wife this I would expect that relationship to be over.  it would never be acceptable for me to say that.

Agreed. It would likewise never be acceptable for a parent to allegedly make a knowingly false accusation to police against the other parent to gain leverage in the relationship, so I'd be out long before the conversation was taped.

Again, speculation. We don't know what we don't know.

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8 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

if you say this now....one could argue, you need to have also said it before he was drafted into the NFL....because "technically" from what we know right now nothing has really changed...:shrug:

I think ticking time bomb is a little bit of an exaggeration.....and maybe one thing I might take from all this is that Hill, having gone through all this, may mind his P's and Q's moving forward more than other players....being on his "best behavior" may be a priority now more than ever....especially since services have been put into place and it appears his fiance with mental issues will maybe not be a major part of his life moving forward or he has the education and support to deal with her and maybe she also gets the help she needs...they have children on the way, so there may always be a connection....but the games, jockeying and positioning within the relationship and sabotaging each other should be over.....

Oh so it’s on her and her “mental issues.”  Wow.

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I was thinking that Hill was in for a year long suspension ala AP's suspension.  But without proof that the boy was harmed by Hill, I don't know if the league does anything.  The information is private for the most part.  At this point I think that KC is loaded.  

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1 hour ago, cobalt_27 said:

Oh so it’s on her and her “mental issues.”  Wow.

Have you read the thread and the links/information that has been provided including the things she has admitted too....sure it takes two to tango sometimes.....but she appears to have a major role in this no matter what you think of Hill....the recent incidents are actually leaning toward being more “on her and her mental issues”.....:shrug:

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3 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Have you read the thread and the links/information that has been provided including the things she has admitted too....sure it takes two to tango sometimes.....but she appears to have a major role in this no matter what you think of Hill....the recent incidents are actually leaning toward being more “on her and her mental issues”.....:shrug:

Yup.  This is generally how domestic abuse and rape against women--misogyny in general--is supported.  Nevermind that a guy threw around, choked, and belly-punched his pregnant girlfriend.  She was the one with "mental issues."  Nevermind verbal threats made by the guy that she should be terrified of him.  She was the one with mental issues.  Nevermind whatever has happened to make his own kid terrified of him.  It was probably her fault.

Always, always blame the women when men are unable to control their behaviors.  Chicks always deserve what they got comin' to them.

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6 hours ago, cobalt_27 said:

Yup.  This is generally how domestic abuse and rape against women--misogyny in general--is supported.  Nevermind that a guy threw around, choked, and belly-punched his pregnant girlfriend.  She was the one with "mental issues."  Nevermind verbal threats made by the guy that she should be terrified of him.  She was the one with mental issues.  Nevermind whatever has happened to make his own kid terrified of him.  It was probably her fault.

Always, always blame the women when men are unable to control their behaviors.  Chicks always deserve what they got comin' to them.

look man....nobody is denying Hill has a bad past....he is a scumbag as far as that goes.....he admitted guilt and took his punishment....hopefully he will get more help and become a better father/husband....but the fiance has admitted to not only abusing the child but to lying and making things up and intentionally trying to shame Hill and set him up to make him look bad....if you choose to discount those things and think she has no role in the recent events so be it....not once has anybody said "it's all on her" so please don't try to twist things....the recent events and her admissions to what she has been doing indicate that not only does she play a major role in them, but she has done so with some premeditation....

 

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We need to get back to how this relates to FF. Anybody who sold Hill will likely lose big. I saw some deals that were somewhat close & I’m sure there were a few that will turn out fair (more or less), but I believe this is a good example of people panic selling.

When you have a stud like Tyreek & #### happens, I’d rather go down with the ship than sell for pennies, especially when nothing has been confirmed. I traded Amari for Reek when the news initially broke & it’s one of the few deals I’m aware of that made some sense for Hill owners. I wanted to give his owner a good asset in case it turned out to be nothing. I’m strong at WR & could afford the hit if it backfired.

Taking 2nd-rounders (& worse) for Tyreek was a non-winning move, IMO. It isn’t over yet, but this fiasco is a good case study in value dynamics.

Edited by Football Jones
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Regardless of how this plays out, this guy will always be a huge risk.  If in fact he has not already run out of rope, his next mistake will likely be his last as an NFL football player - and this guy seems to be quite a bit mistake-prone.  I think he carries similar risk to Josh Gordon.  Different reasons for the risk, but similar downgrade in value seems logical to me.  Granted, people may have undersold him when they possibly panic-sold, but that doesnt mean it still wont play out in their favor.  This guy is a ticking timebomb of heinous behavior and horrible decisions.

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11 hours ago, ChuckLiddell said:

Regardless of how this plays out, this guy will always be a huge risk.  If in fact he has not already run out of rope, his next mistake will likely be his last as an NFL football player - and this guy seems to be quite a bit mistake-prone.  I think he carries similar risk to Josh Gordon.  Different reasons for the risk, but similar downgrade in value seems logical to me.  Granted, people may have undersold him when they possibly panic-sold, but that doesnt mean it still wont play out in their favor.  This guy is a ticking timebomb of heinous behavior and horrible decisions.

I wouldn’t disagree, but Hill’s issue is much less of a risk than things surrounding other character concerns. Drugs & alcohol, for example, because of the dependency.

And he may have done absolutely nothing other than his hyperbolic statement in the audio. Granted, Tyreek isn’t a model citizen, but I’m interested in buying at market value if his owner is selling.

There’s risk in any deal. I’m a gambler so the upside to me is very attractive if you’re telling me I don’t have to overpay.

Edited by Football Jones
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Looks like he's come away clean for the most part after 2-3 different investigations. Glad I still own him right now but I wouldn't be surprised if something else comes out that he is then cleared of again before the season starts. 

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10 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Looks like he's come away clean for the most part after 2-3 different investigations. Glad I still own him right now but I wouldn't be surprised if something else comes out that he is then cleared of again before the season starts. 

So how many games are you thinking he will miss?

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12 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

So how many games are you thinking he will miss?

2-4 games if nothing else comes out. Just because his fiancee set him up on that audio. He probably was looking at zero games if that audio hadn't come out. Goodell will want to send a message though. 

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1 hour ago, Milkman said:

2-4 games if nothing else comes out. Just because his fiancee set him up on that audio. He probably was looking at zero games if that audio hadn't come out. Goodell will want to send a message though. 

I will take the over on 4 games.  I am thinking 4-8.

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to WR Tyreek Hill, KC

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