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***Official 2025 NBA Champion Philadelphia 76ers Thread*** - Still Processing (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Long Ball Larry
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
modogg
Footballguy
need2know
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Morey's Tweets this week:
What I am mostly excited for with the announcement that we will have 10k fans in the playoffs is that during opposing team lineup introductions the players will now for sure hear how much they truly suck.
And...
Let's try to get sam hinkie for the bell ringing
LOVE IT!
What I am mostly excited for with the announcement that we will have 10k fans in the playoffs is that during opposing team lineup introductions the players will now for sure hear how much they truly suck.
And...
Let's try to get sam hinkie for the bell ringing
LOVE IT!
Deamon
Footballguy
Heat likely will be the 6 seed and play the Bucks round 1. Looking like Knicks or Hawks for us round 2.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Yea it's over for this part. Ben Simmons was the right pick in the draft. He had all the potential in the world. Just never put in the time or effort to get better. Yea he practiced hard. Yea he put in the minimum amount of training to stay relevant as an NBA player. However, he never put in the time to develop his game. While Joel has gotten better every year he's been in the league, Ben has stayed exactly the same as day one. In some areas he's even regressed.
I can't anymore with Ben. I know the team had other deficiencies. Joel hurt again. Tobias fell off a bit. Bench didn't contribute as much. Doc doing his usual. But Bens lack of progress is the #1 reason we lost again in the 2nd round.
I never want to see him as a Sixers again.
I can't anymore with Ben. I know the team had other deficiencies. Joel hurt again. Tobias fell off a bit. Bench didn't contribute as much. Doc doing his usual. But Bens lack of progress is the #1 reason we lost again in the 2nd round.
I never want to see him as a Sixers again.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So what are the realistic trade partners/targets? Ben still has value and potential -- but he will never make it in Philly mentally after this series. Lowest FT% in NBA playoff history for someone with 70+ attempts. Played scared. Embiid left it all on the floor, and this guy can't even take an open dunk -- he has lost all support.
modogg
Footballguy
love the idea. I never can find this forum but do think it is a great call. my 1st question is should the Sixers sign Embiid to a super max? have him signed for another 5 years or so at close to 50 million a year is scary
modogg
Footballguy
i'll disagree a little bit with the bolded. I think the loss in this round was much more of a team loss. What is crazy about Ben is looking at what he did for those 5 minutes in the beginning of the 2nd half vs. how he looked for the last 3 games. it looked like the Ben from the Washington game where he came out after halftime aggressive and scored 11 or 13 in that time frame. I think Ben getting those 2 fouls in that time frame last night was what got him off of his game.
As for the top part, i have no idea if the issue with him not progressing is more on him, or more on the coaching staff, etc. I really want to see Ben with a full off-season with Sam Cassel and the current coaching staff to see how it can look. but it may very well to little too late. He made some minor improvements this year with playing from the post and being more aggressive at times, but certainly not significant enough
modogg
Footballguy
@Deamon wanted to bring Deamon into this conversation too since he has been watching the Sixers for awhile.
Biggest thing with the Ben issue is what is the reason behind it. I have watched a ton of the Sixers since Ben and Joel have been on the team, and i have never seen him pass out of a dunk like he did yesterday. he said in his post game conference yesterday that he thought gallinari was on him from behind and that he may block him so he passed out, and maybe that was the case.
either way, it is obvious he lost confidence badly in this series. so is the issue talent, effort or mental @Insein. If effort, they should send him as soon as they get an adequate deal coming back. i don't know if it is talent, but it seems every single talking head has the answer for Ben on what he needs to do. I think it is mental, in particular considering how he looked all season and then how he looked in the playoffs. can this be overcome, i don't know.
But again, seeing how Ben played throughout the regular season, i think trading him now would be a big mistake considering he is only 24 and has a lot of potential still. i think give him the whole off-season here to work with the current coaching staff, and i would guess Morrey and Doc and the rest would know by September where Ben is at. If they think he can't improve, put him in a position to at least improve his trade value and trade him then.
modogg
Footballguy
i honestly think this needs to be considered as well. when Ben was out for that stretch the team looked pretty bad. so a trade of Ben for nothing would be really ugly for the team overall. Not saying they wouldn't make the playoffs, but if they trade Ben they need an adequate piece to add that can do something.
question now is what is the time frame for this team? is it the next 2-4 years so they need a player to fit that? if they think Embiid can get over his 4th quarter woes and a piece can add that, then they need to plan for that.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I am not totally anti-Simmons. But I am pretty firmly anti-Simmons-on-Sixers now. I don't think that he can mentally recover in Philadelphia at this point and it is pretty apparent that he and Embiid cannot co-exist given their skill sets. Embiid, when healthy, is a top 5 player in the league. You build around him.
modogg
Footballguy
yeah, could be the way to go. But i think if we trade Ben to a team with lower expectations right now, and some time to develop (like an OKC, etc), they could end up with a top 10-15 player in a year or 2. that is what worries me.
so if we trade Ben now, what is to say we get a healthy Embiid for the next 2-3 years? trading Ben and committing to Embiid, are we setting the team up to be a top-3 seed each year, that can't get to the finals because Embiid can't keep 100% healthy for the playoffs? You could see in this series and last, guys going hard physically at Embiid wearing him down and taking a toll on his body. my guess is most teams will do that in the playoffs now if they can throw 2-3 bodies at Embiid and just wear him down in the overall series or even if just for late in the game
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
You cannot worry about what Simmons is going to turn into. The point is, he won't reach that potential here. He has become a liability. Embiid played with a torn meniscus.
Half-assing the roster is a recipe for disaster. You build around your star. If injuries don't let the team win, so be it, but you have a top player. An MVP candidate who is virtually unstoppable. You don't need an all-star for Simmons, but you will certainly get valuable pieces in return. They just need to fit Embiid's skill-set.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The team right now is built to be a top seed that cannot win a championship and that is largely due to having their starting PG, who is a top 3 salary, being a total liability in the 4th quarter. The best team we had was with Butler and Reddick -- someone who had killer instinct that could isolate and get a bucket or make a smart choice and an assassin shooter. They chose poorly extending Simmons instead of getting rid of him and Brett Brown to satisfy Butler.
Cannot change that now though, so try to get what you can for Simmons. Hope you can keep Maxey and Thybulle (two guys who won't be all-stars, but whose games are perfect as championship role-players).
Cannot change that now though, so try to get what you can for Simmons. Hope you can keep Maxey and Thybulle (two guys who won't be all-stars, but whose games are perfect as championship role-players).
modogg
Footballguy
but i wonder if a full off-season with the current coaching staff will make a difference with Ben. he has never really had that yet. crazy if he didn't have his total meltdown in this series we would be able to get a chance to see it, but most likely we won't now.
Question is what does this team need then? used to be shooters to allow them to spread the floor, but Embiid's turnovers in these games has me a little worried it could hamper him going forward. Looking at Jokic in Denver, can he be a guy to get them a championship? i have heard a few times that it isn't realistic to build around a big man in the current NBA
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Totally disagree.
The Lakers have Lebron, but they are built around AD.
The Bucks are the favorite now -- Built around Greek Freak.
Pelicans building around Zion.
Nuggets would be in the finals if Murray wasn't hurt -- but Joker is the main cog there.
Sixers had better shooters this season than last season, but Simmons game is so antithetical to Embiid's that it did not matter. Sixers need someone they can rely on to run the offense or have a 2-man game with Embiid to close games. Seth Curry was great, but he isn't that guy -- imagine Curry (and even Harris) being wide open because Embiid and a ball-handler threat are attracting all of the attention. Simmons scared NOBODY in the 4th. Made Sixers too predicable and easy to defend.
modogg
Footballguy
yeah, at this point there is really no way to defend Ben much anymore, especially if we are talking about their time frame and window with Embiid. if this was the '18 season or something they could maybe talk about trying to develop Simmons more, but it really isn't viable.
question is what can they reasonably get in return and what are they hoping for.
what is funny is Ben's dismal play these last few games is a life saver for Doc and Tobias.
modogg
Footballguy
i think another thing that really is getting masked by Ben's dismal play, is how in the F this team blew 2 double digit leads like they did in games 4 and 5. Those were simply inexcusable. Ben certainly played a part, but it is definitely short-sighted to just say those were all on Ben. something else is wrong and i don't know if there is an obvious answer to what those issues are. Doc i would say is at least 33% of those
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So who are the realistic trade or sign-and-trade targets?
CJ McCollum?
Sexton?
Lavine?
Beal (don't think they want Simmons though)?
Who might be out there?
CJ McCollum?
Sexton?
Lavine?
Beal (don't think they want Simmons though)?
Who might be out there?
modogg
Footballguy
i can't see Portland wanting Ben at this point. Cleveland could be a good move, but Sexton is certainly not making this team much better then they are now. I think people are forgetting that Ben contributed much more then he has in the playoffs to the Sixers getting the #1 seed. Jury is out on how Sexton or Lavine can look in the playoffs, which could be a factor and a realistic expectation is that they won't come in and immediately make a difference in the playoff play.
Beal i think is realistic, but they need more refinement in Embiid's game. He hasn't been involved in a ton of pick and role plays because Brett didn't really put them in place, so is that what the Sixers should aim for? is a better wing player needed instead of a guard
and how much do they consider salary implications? i forget the details, but does getting off of Toby's contract right now give them more options with their salary that they can take advantage of.
i definitely feel better with having a guy like Morrey in the front office then just Elton or Colangelo. but they need to consider all possible options. i am guessing with this situation there are 5-8 other guys out there that we are not even considering who could be options.
Funny one of the top of my head is Ben for Donovan Mitchell? i am guessing Sixers need to add a little, but Ben with Gobert and Mitchell with Embiid could be good for both teams
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
modogg
Footballguy
the other question is all of the trade talk is around Ben, but any consideration to trading Embiid? i don't know if his value can get any higher right now, does it make sense for the Sixers to take a step or 2 back currently with the intention of getting a ton more value in return and not having to sweat Joel's health for the next 4-5 years?
modogg
Footballguy
with Utah failing in the playoffs a few times, it might be. he seemed disgruntled last year, and may be something for both to consider. no idea salary implications
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Zero. If you are trading Embiid, then you trade the whole team and start over and that seems unwarranted right now.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
What cap space will the Sixers have?
modogg
Footballguy
i don't know, might want to blow it up after seeing this:
The #Sixers Big 3 the last 4 2nd halves
Joel Embiid
14/47 from the field
4/12 from 3
14 TO
-31
Ben Simmons
2/5 from the field
-20
4 TO
Tobias Harris
11/33 from the field
1/8 from 3
3 TO
-36
modogg
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So you are going to trade Hill's expiring deal too - whether as part of Simmons trade or something else. So that should help.
Deamon
Footballguy
@Leeroy Jenkins Good idea on the thread. If this was in the main group it would be troll city.
My stance on Ben is middle ground. I've never pumped him up or said he was elite, but he is far from "trash" like others say. I do think NBA value is higher than twitter value by a lot, and people are still going to see a 3 time all star and want him. Some coaches out there are going to think they can fix him.
I'm not sure what we could get at this point though. CJ for Ben seems like the most logical trade right now but what role does Ben play on a team with a star PG who always wants the ball in his hands? He is a pure defender at that point.
My stance on Ben is middle ground. I've never pumped him up or said he was elite, but he is far from "trash" like others say. I do think NBA value is higher than twitter value by a lot, and people are still going to see a 3 time all star and want him. Some coaches out there are going to think they can fix him.
I'm not sure what we could get at this point though. CJ for Ben seems like the most logical trade right now but what role does Ben play on a team with a star PG who always wants the ball in his hands? He is a pure defender at that point.
Deamon
Footballguy
I agree with @modogg about Ben's mental issues. I'm not convinced that this is a 'lack of effort' like everyone is saying. What if he is in the gym every day shooting jumpers trying to improve but just... Can't? I hate how every fan sees a weakness and just thinks that work will fix it. Hard work is important, but doesn't cure everything.
I think this is such a mental block for him right now. I don't know what's going on in Ben's head, but it isn't good. He has lost confidence. He has lost aggressiveness. He seems not right at all right now mentally. Yet this type of thing gets ridiculed and mocked, and blamed on 'not trying hard enough'.
When a player like AD is physically hurt and tries to play through it but can't, he's praised. When a player like Ben is mentally hurt and tries to play through it but can't, he's called soft, weak, girly, un-tough, etc. The world is changing to be more accepting of this stuff, but not fast enough.
I think this is such a mental block for him right now. I don't know what's going on in Ben's head, but it isn't good. He has lost confidence. He has lost aggressiveness. He seems not right at all right now mentally. Yet this type of thing gets ridiculed and mocked, and blamed on 'not trying hard enough'.
When a player like AD is physically hurt and tries to play through it but can't, he's praised. When a player like Ben is mentally hurt and tries to play through it but can't, he's called soft, weak, girly, un-tough, etc. The world is changing to be more accepting of this stuff, but not fast enough.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Ya, I agree with this. This is Wentz syndrome.
I don't diss Wentz or Ben for being mentally "untough". This is a hard city to play in and can ruin you mentally.
Sucks cause I thought Ben had more potential than this. I think he's working on his shot more than people think, but he just can't seem to get any better at it, and after these comments from Joel and Doc, I'm not sure how he can succeed here.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Why so much secrecy then? So many rumors about which hand he is actually better with. The pickup games showing he can shoot, but then it never materializes in a real game.
modogg
Footballguy
if you ever see before the games Ben is hitting tons of 3s and free throws. So he is practicing them, just not coming through in games. but more importantly his shooting isn't the issue. It isn't like Ben was shooting all season then just stopped in the playoffs.
it is just funny everyone in the world is screaming to trade Simmons. It is like when everyone in the world tells you to go buy houses now, it is most of the time about 6-8 months too late.
i am just super thankful that Morrey is in there because i don't think he will bend to pressure, or trade Ben to just trade him. Funny reports coming ojut if you can get through all of the "Ben is the worst player in the NBA" garbage.
Kevin O'Conner has to be doing cartwheels over this one:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10006386-ben-simmons-rumors-76ers-star-may-explore-switching-dominant-shooting-hand
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Ben and Hill
For
McCollum and Covington
That works and is a reasonable trade. Not sure Portland would do it -- but maybe? Would hope Ben would fetch something better, but that isn't terrible.
For
McCollum and Covington
That works and is a reasonable trade. Not sure Portland would do it -- but maybe? Would hope Ben would fetch something better, but that isn't terrible.
need2know
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Truthfully though I am not sure that accomplishes much for the team. Sixers need a decisive ball-handler who can get his own shot, drive to the basket, and/or make the right play in the 4th. Don't know that McCollum is that guy, or if someone like that is available other than a sign-and-trade for Lowery.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
"He doesn't work. He doesn't listen. Everyone around him is family and he is constantly babied."
Be lucky to get CJ for him.
Lakers may be his destination -- who could we get?
Be lucky to get CJ for him.
Lakers may be his destination -- who could we get?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Mike Scott is literally posting every picture of himself in Philly that he has right now on IG. Trade or release imminent?
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Seeing that Sexton, Love, and picks for Simmons (and probably Hill for salaries) is on the table. I don't mind that deal, but DM wants someone like Lillard. Which would be great, but not sure realistic unless Lillard makes a demand with limited teams he would report to.
modogg
Footballguy
all of the trades out there are so terrible and bad. If you do the Roco and CJ one you guys talked about above, Sixers would like be 4th seed or maybe worse, and would be lucky to get to the 2nd round, let alone be ECF
Sexton, Love and picks is horrible too. what are you going to do with Toby and Love? Sexton is a volume shooter, and yes the Sixers should be taking more 3s, but only thing i see hapening in most of these trade scenarios is chemistry of the team going down and Sixers being a worse regular season team
