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Bitcoin-Explain to me how to buy these things (1 Viewer)

RE: Coinbase.  It's not perfect.  They 'crash' every time the market moves wildly up OR down.  I don't trade btc, I buy and hold so their deficiencies don't really affect me but it's still inexcusable for the top rated exchange to still have crashes during market volatility.  BUT, they are 'safe' for the consumer, compliant and regulated.  That's the only reason I recommend them. If you're trying to trade btc or eth, use a different exchange.  If you're just investinig long term, Coinbase will be the easiest to use with little worry, imo.

Full transparency, I use Coinbase Pro (a product of coinbase).  Fees are cheaper and I've never had any issues.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
Different products have different offerings. I use the Ledger Nano S which allows you to store up to 4 different crypto currencies.  This device is $60.  The Ledger Nano X is $120 and can store many more than 4 different crypto currencies.  There is also the Trezor product which is similar to Ledger in reputation, quality and security.  I think either a Ledger or Trezor is your best bet.  Those two brands have the most reviews, most trust etc... Since I hold just 2 cryptos (BTC & ETH), I use the Ledger Nano S. There is no limit on how much of an individual coin you can store.
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Ledger had a data hack not long ago. Seems to have been changing the protocol across the space for data deletion/non collection. That being said it was a pretty big F up that’s caused a lot of phishing. Just out of principle I would not recommend Ledger even though it has a simple interface. I’m switching over to a ColdCard and probably a Wasabi wallet.

 
Iceman03 said:
Ledger had a data hack not long ago. Seems to have been changing the protocol across the space for data deletion/non collection. That being said it was a pretty big F up that’s caused a lot of phishing. Just out of principle I would not recommend Ledger even though it has a simple interface. I’m switching over to a ColdCard and probably a Wasabi wallet.
Click to expand...
What exactly happened?  Sometimes a good company who had an incident and responded well can be a good choice over an untested company.

 
I know very little about this (as I'm sure will be evident in a second), but I started a small, weekly auto-deposit into Coinbase some time ago thanks to this thread...just kind of looking at it like a fun savings-type account gamble. It's definitely much more +ev than my current sportsbook account, so that's a plus.

At what point should I worry about transferring over my cryptocurrency to a wallet? Full disclosure, I don't even even close to a half of a full bitcoin yet, but it's gotten to be an amount that'd I'd be pissed/sad if it suddenly just disappeared for some reason. Is it even necessary to move funds to a wallet if I intend to do nothing with it for years and years?

Thanks, and happy day-after-Christmas!

 
PinkydaPimp said:
What exactly happened?  Sometimes a good company who had an incident and responded well can be a good choice over an untested company.
Click to expand...
They weren’t forthcoming to start out. They said it was only a small email leak. Turns out it was several thousand from June on that had full address, emails and phone numbers. The list was distributed free on a hacker site. They weren’t fully truthful about it until it became overt. 

urbanhack said:
Just a reminder that if you use Blockfi to buy and store your Bitcoin, they are paying you 8% interest!!
Click to expand...
I’m not saying don’t do this but just know they rehypothecate your Bitcoin to provide their loans. You are taking on counter-party risk. Everything seemed to be fine during the February crash though. Also takes a bit longer to free up and move your Bitcoin. 

 
starnes13 said:
I know very little about this (as I'm sure will be evident in a second), but I started a small, weekly auto-deposit into Coinbase some time ago thanks to this thread...just kind of looking at it like a fun savings-type account gamble. It's definitely much more +ev than my current sportsbook account, so that's a plus.

At what point should I worry about transferring over my cryptocurrency to a wallet? Full disclosure, I don't even even close to a half of a full bitcoin yet, but it's gotten to be an amount that'd I'd be pissed/sad if it suddenly just disappeared for some reason. Is it even necessary to move funds to a wallet if I intend to do nothing with it for years and years?

Thanks, and happy day-after-Christmas!
Click to expand...
I just moved onto Coinbase to where my deposits aren’t even able to removed off of it yet.  I intend to move them to an offline wallet ASAP because I can’t really see a reason not to have that safety net for the amount on there.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
RE: Coinbase.  It's not perfect.  They 'crash' every time the market moves wildly up OR down.  I don't trade btc, I buy and hold so their deficiencies don't really affect me but it's still inexcusable for the top rated exchange to still have crashes during market volatility.  BUT, they are 'safe' for the consumer, compliant and regulated.  That's the only reason I recommend them. If you're trying to trade btc or eth, use a different exchange.  If you're just investinig long term, Coinbase will be the easiest to use with little worry, imo.

Full transparency, I use Coinbase Pro (a product of coinbase).  Fees are cheaper and I've never had any issues.
Click to expand...
Is there a particular reason Coinbase won’t take deposits from PayPal? It’s frustrating when you have $ in an online service recognized by about everyone at this point but can’t move it into Coinbase without jumping through a ton of hoops.

 
TripItUp said:
coinbase sucks...use Robinhood.
Click to expand...
Robinhood you don’t actually own the coin and can’t take it off of the exchange into a ledger.  You’re also paying any fees that Robinhood has to pay to secure the crypto (it’s in their terms) since it is different from their free stocks.  You don’t see the fee but it is factored into the price they display the various cryptos at.  I just got out of purchasing mine at robin hood for these very reasons.  Why does Coinbase suck ?  I’ve been able to deposit, purchase, etc. easily or is there other reasons ?  Honest question as I’m open to learning if there is a solid case.

 
CowboyFan4822 said:
Robinhood you don’t actually own the coin and can’t take it off of the exchange into a ledger.  You’re also paying any fees that Robinhood has to pay to secure the crypto (it’s in their terms) since it is different from their free stocks.  You don’t see the fee but it is factored into the price they display the various cryptos at.  I just got out of purchasing mine at robin hood for these very reasons.  Why does Coinbase suck ?  I’ve been able to deposit, purchase, etc. easily or is there other reasons ?  Honest question as I’m open to learning if there is a solid case.
Click to expand...
Unless you're trading BTC, I don't see the downside with Coinbase. Their fees are a tad higher and the site can crash during the peaks and the valleys, but it's a trusted place to buy bitcoin. The company is in the process of going public so they have a vested interest in protecting your funds. 

I know people like to have the keys and take their BTC in cold storage, but I don't trust myself not to lose the physical wallet or remember the password to something I rarely use. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
I know people like to have the keys and take their BTC in cold storage, but I don't trust myself not to lose the physical wallet or remember the password to something I rarely use. 
Click to expand...
I don’t really understand this. It seems analogous to holding physical stock certificates instead of just trusting Fidelity or Etrade or whatever to hold your shares. Seems way higher risk to me. 
 

For context I “bought” my first little bit of Bitcoin on PayPal the other day. Seems like a good way to dip my toe in the crypto water, a place to put some cash instead of a savings account, understanding it’s much higher risk. Am I wrong?
 

 
SFBayDuck said:
I don’t really understand this. It seems analogous to holding physical stock certificates instead of just trusting Fidelity or Etrade or whatever to hold your shares. Seems way higher risk to me. 
 

For context I “bought” my first little bit of Bitcoin on PayPal the other day. Seems like a good way to dip my toe in the crypto water, a place to put some cash instead of a savings account, understanding it’s much higher risk. Am I wrong?
 
Click to expand...
You're right. I think it stems from the fact that cryptocurrency was created to be anonymous and separate from traditional banking and oversight. Now we're here.

 
SFBayDuck said:
I don’t really understand this. It seems analogous to holding physical stock certificates instead of just trusting Fidelity or Etrade or whatever to hold your shares. Seems way higher risk to me. 
 

For context I “bought” my first little bit of Bitcoin on PayPal the other day. Seems like a good way to dip my toe in the crypto water, a place to put some cash instead of a savings account, understanding it’s much higher risk. Am I wrong?
 
Click to expand...
Stocks and the like are regulated and have different insurances so fidelity, etc. cant just close up shop or not give you your stock.  If you don’t have the private keys to your bitcoin, you don’t actually control them. The exchange (PayPal, Coinbase, etc.) simply has an obligation to give you some bitcoin if you ask them. Exchanges get hacked all the time, they can go out of business or refuse your withdrawal due to some regulatory issues. If you don’t actually control the keys to your bitcoin, all you have is an IOU of a third party. 
 

Now I agree Coinbase going public and being a reputable exchange is a good place to store them.  My friend who has been investing in crypto for years recommend I store them at BlockFi as it’s basically free interest on your Bitcoin.  And to also download Coinbase pro not just Coinbase as the fees are less with it

 
jb1020 said:
I bought some at $13500ish a month or so ago.  Then bought some more around $17k.  I think I've done my homework now to where where I feel pretty comfortable dumping some money into this now.  

I'm at 60% BTC, 20% XPR, 15% ETH and about 5% DNT.  
Click to expand...
So the XPR deal bite me a little bit.  Admittedly, I was going off "twitter hype" when I bought in.  I'm just going to hold what I have...its not too much.  

What else do you crypto guys diversify into?  ETH and LTC are viable options right?  There's not a future for these like there is for XPR/Ripple is there?  Sounds like there is still a possibility XPR will get pulled from the exchanges.  

 
jb1020 said:
So the XPR deal bite me a little bit.  Admittedly, I was going off "twitter hype" when I bought in.  I'm just going to hold what I have...its not too much.  

What else do you crypto guys diversify into?  ETH and LTC are viable options right?  There's not a future for these like there is for XPR/Ripple is there?  Sounds like there is still a possibility XPR will get pulled from the exchanges.  
Click to expand...
I was recommended to look into NEO.  Friend of mine has held over 5k of them since it from $4 to $140 and now back around $25.  Still think he’s nuts not selling some back then but I’m looking at around 80% BTC, 15% ETH 5% NEO.  I’m sold on BTC around long term to not diversify into the alt coins.

also would have to use an exchange like Binance to purchase NEO.

 
CowboyFan4822 said:
I was recommended to look into NEO.  Friend of mine has held over 5k of them since it from $4 to $140 and now back around $25.  Still think he’s nuts not selling some back then but I’m looking at around 80% BTC, 15% ETH 5% NEO.  I’m sold on BTC around long term to not diversify into the alt coins.

also would have to use an exchange like Binance to purchase NEO.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm sold on BTC as well, but don't want to miss an opportunity to like NEO going from $4 to $140.  Certainly wouldn't hold a coin like that for too long.   

I'm holding BTC for the long run.  

 
CowboyFan4822 said:
Maybe there’s a third even better option someone else knows ?  Is binance any better ?
Click to expand...
Binance is solid, Kraken/Gemini also good options.

I’d also look into BlockFi which is the equivalent of a crypto bank that gives you 6% interest on your first 2.5 BTC.

 
I’ve become a cryptoholic so to speak these last 3-4 months and have gone in pretty heavy.  Aligns with my world view and as someone whose spent their career in the enterprise technology space, I’ve witnessed adoption cycles of new entrants into the market as they create better business models for their customers.

There are tons of great resources out there, but I’d call out Real Vision Finance which has launched a Crypto specific channel if you’re really looking to go down the rabbit hole.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
New ATH, even still the majority of this forum will continue to leave laugh emojis and posts of ridicule on how bitcoin is going to zero.  I've done my evangelizing over the years to everyone I know.  The 8 or so people who listened are ecstatic and will be more ecstatic when they can retire in a few years.  I'm done trying to convince people of the potential for bitcoin.  You either see it or you don't and once 20k confirms support, there's no looking back!
Click to expand...
If I could appeal to you on this front.

This is the time for you to amp up your evangelizing.  Sometimes people are simply not ready to hear ‘the story’ so to speak.

Much has happened this past year which has provided for the best business case for BTC’s adoption and integration into Modern Monetary Theory (MMT).  As such, while I don’t doubt you’ll still see laugh emojis, their frequency will decrease me thinks and the ROI you’ve likely reaped is the best armor against them anyway.

 
jb1020 said:
Yeah, I'm sold on BTC as well, but don't want to miss an opportunity to like NEO going from $4 to $140.  Certainly wouldn't hold a coin like that for too long.   

I'm holding BTC for the long run.  
Click to expand...
Yeah I wouldn’t it’s def. a gamble.  I’m content watching btc.  Same guy who told me to buy NEO told me to buy ETH when it was $12.  I didn’t, whoops 🤦🏻‍♂️.

 
JP Morgan projects Bitcoin to hit $650,000

https://coinjournal.net/news/jp-morgan-report-suggests-bitcoin-price-could-reach-650k/

The leading multinational investment bank in the US believes Bitcoin price can soar to $650,000

The investment bank compiled its last Flows and Liquidity report for 2020 highlighting that gold and Bitcoin gained the most from the coronavirus pandemic.

Bitcoin has posted an impressive performance in the third and the current fourth quarter this year. The crypto’s tremendous rally at the end of November, in particular, saw it reach its previous all-time high, but that wasn’t the end of it. Last week Bitcoin’s price climbed up to $22,600 and over the weekend, it surged to an unprecedented level of $24,000 on some major exchanges.

During this period, the crypto’s adoption rate has risen exponentially and JP Morgan describes this Bitcoin growth as remarkable. The crypto has drawn the attention of several individual and institutional investors globally. Many companies have now started showing interest in the digital asset by setting aside their funds to acquire Bitcoin.

However, the digital asset still has a long way to go in terms of market capital. Most of the leading traditional assets have a market cap in the range of trillions e.g. gold that is valued at roughly $10 trillion. Bitcoin, by contrast, has a current market cap of $442 billion. That said, its growth rate remains a positive attribute especially when analysing its potential. The digital asset grew by $300 billion in market validation in 2020 alone.

“Alternative ‘currencies’ such as Gold and Bitcoin have been the main beneficiaries of the pandemic in relative terms growing their assets (for investment purposes) by 27% and 227%, respectively,” a section of the JPMorgan report read.

The investment bank reckons that if Bitcoin stays the course and draws more investors, it could reach a price level of $650,000. JP Morgan fancies this being the case if the crypto attains the same market cap as gold. Of course, this won’t happen in the near future. In the report, JP Morgan asserts that by virtue of increased institutional adoption of Bitcoin, the price jump will likely happen sooner than it had been expected.

The bank recently suggested that many institutions will follow the likes of MassMutual and MicroStrategy in getting exposure to Bitcoin. JP Morgan predicted a resulting inflow of $600 billion into Bitcoin. More companies investing in Bitcoin will be key in driving Bitcoin prices higher.

 
TheDirtyWord said:
JP Morgan projects Bitcoin to hit $650,000

https://coinjournal.net/news/jp-morgan-report-suggests-bitcoin-price-could-reach-650k/

The leading multinational investment bank in the US believes Bitcoin price can soar to $650,000

The investment bank compiled its last Flows and Liquidity report for 2020 highlighting that gold and Bitcoin gained the most from the coronavirus pandemic.

Bitcoin has posted an impressive performance in the third and the current fourth quarter this year. The crypto’s tremendous rally at the end of November, in particular, saw it reach its previous all-time high, but that wasn’t the end of it. Last week Bitcoin’s price climbed up to $22,600 and over the weekend, it surged to an unprecedented level of $24,000 on some major exchanges.

During this period, the crypto’s adoption rate has risen exponentially and JP Morgan describes this Bitcoin growth as remarkable. The crypto has drawn the attention of several individual and institutional investors globally. Many companies have now started showing interest in the digital asset by setting aside their funds to acquire Bitcoin.

However, the digital asset still has a long way to go in terms of market capital. Most of the leading traditional assets have a market cap in the range of trillions e.g. gold that is valued at roughly $10 trillion. Bitcoin, by contrast, has a current market cap of $442 billion. That said, its growth rate remains a positive attribute especially when analysing its potential. The digital asset grew by $300 billion in market validation in 2020 alone.

“Alternative ‘currencies’ such as Gold and Bitcoin have been the main beneficiaries of the pandemic in relative terms growing their assets (for investment purposes) by 27% and 227%, respectively,” a section of the JPMorgan report read.

The investment bank reckons that if Bitcoin stays the course and draws more investors, it could reach a price level of $650,000. JP Morgan fancies this being the case if the crypto attains the same market cap as gold. Of course, this won’t happen in the near future. In the report, JP Morgan asserts that by virtue of increased institutional adoption of Bitcoin, the price jump will likely happen sooner than it had been expected.

The bank recently suggested that many institutions will follow the likes of MassMutual and MicroStrategy in getting exposure to Bitcoin. JP Morgan predicted a resulting inflow of $600 billion into Bitcoin. More companies investing in Bitcoin will be key in driving Bitcoin prices higher.
Click to expand...
If the fed keeps creating more dollars, $650k will have us all driving around in new Honda Accords.
Well, at least bitcoiners won't be going backwards.
:suds:

 
brun said:
If the fed keeps creating more dollars, $650k will have us all driving around in new Honda Accords.
Well, at least bitcoiners won't be going backwards.
:suds:
Click to expand...
It’s a never-ending cycle now.  Crisis = Stimulus...now we just have to see how low the crisis bar continues to get set.

My thinking all along since the pandemic started was that the world was kicking the can down the road on financial pain.  I don’t think 2021 will be any less a dumpster fire than 2020 was.

 
Just finished reading

Bitcoin: Hard Money You Can't ##### With: Why bitcoin will be the next global reserve currency
Jason A Williams

Contains current information and is understandable (not too technical and easy writing style). Not a "how to" book, more of a "why to" book. Thought it was well worth the time to read. However, if you don't have the time. Takeaways; you're not too late, buy bitcoin, hold.

 
Just a reminder that if you use Blockfi to buy and store your Bitcoin, they are paying you 8% interest!!
Note: the above, pasted from a different post that I somehow screwed up when I quoted, isn't accurate. @TheDirtyWord quote below is more accurate.
Only the stablecoins like PAX & USDC get 8.6%.

TheDirtyWord said:
Binance is solid, Kraken/Gemini also good options.

I’d also look into BlockFi which is the equivalent of a crypto bank that gives you 6% interest on your first 2.5 BTC.
Click to expand...
Just opened a BlockFi account via their app, requested a deposit from my my bank (will take a couple days to execute) and moved some bitcoin from Kraken.
I found it to be an easier experience than others like Kraken or Binance.
You get a referral code. So, if you have friends or family who use your code and deposit >= $100, you both get $10 in bitcoin.
Even though it's mutually beneficial, I don't know that it's OK to post referral codes here, but feel free to PM me if you'd like to use the code. 

FWIW - I think I'm going to cash out my PayPal bitcoin shares tomorrow before the transaction fees kick in. Will probably rebuy bitcoin in BlockFi.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
brun said:
Just a reminder that if you use Blockfi to buy and store your Bitcoin, they are paying you 8% interest!!
Note: the above, pasted from a different post that I somehow screwed up when I quoted, isn't accurate. @TheDirtyWord quote below is more accurate.
Only the stablecoins like PAX & USDC get 8.6%.

Just opened a BlockFi account via their app, requested a deposit from my my bank (will take a couple days to execute) and moved some bitcoin from Kraken.
I found it to be an easier experience than others like Kraken or Binance.
You get a referral code. So, if you have friends or family who use your code and deposit >= $100, you both get $10 in bitcoin.
Even though it's mutually beneficial, I don't know that it's OK to post referral codes here, but feel free to PM me if you'd like to use the code. 

FWIW - I think I'm going to cash out my PayPal bitcoin shares tomorrow before the transaction fees kick in. Will probably rebuy bitcoin in BlockFi.
Click to expand...
Also, Kraken also now has acquired their bank charter.  I have not researched their yields and whatnot, but if you have some BTC there, they may have something comparable.

 
Ted Lange as your Bartender said:
You can buy fractions through a PayPal account, but it seems like it’s more a trading vehicle than it being “your” Bitcoin, ie you currently can’t transfer it out of PayPal, you don’t get a wallet password etc..  But it’s really easy if you just want to buy some quickly.
Click to expand...
So buying from paypal, cash app or coinbase isn’t the same as having a wallet?

How do I go about getting whatever coin I have on via those apps into a wallet?

 
Yenrub said:
So buying from paypal, cash app or coinbase isn’t the same as having a wallet?

How do I go about getting whatever coin I have on via those apps into a wallet?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily...you can transfer out of Coinbase to a wallet.  Coinbase even has a wallet.  But there are platforms like Robinhood/WeBull and maybe PayPal/Cash App that don’t afford this capability which means you’d have to sell what you have there and repurchase via another exchange.

 
For those considering using PayPal for your crypto.
I just executed a couple of sell actions this morning on my phone. I found that you cannot specify the price at which you want to sell (like a limit order). Eye/hand coordination is very important if you want to sell at the price you see on the screen.

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Curious what people’s end game plan is?

me I’m holding but I’m going to take profit at btc 50k, 75k and 100k.  
Click to expand...
I don’t have any significant stake (think I have ~$1500 worth) so even at $100K that’s still only ~$5K if I pull out

a nice profit for sure, but I’m mainly in for the entertainment purposes at this point

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Curious what people’s end game plan is?

me I’m holding but I’m going to take profit at btc 50k, 75k and 100k.  
Click to expand...
Always a proponent of taking profit...I don’t know if I have price points like you.  As someone who got into BTC because of macro economic developments, now that the governors are off for institutions to come in and also my world view is one in which I think we’ve all kicked the can of financial pain to 2021 (and beyond) feels like HODLing makes sense.

Also, the ‘dreaded’ 30% correction only wipes out two weeks of gains.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
PinkydaPimp said:
Curious what people’s end game plan is?
me I’m holding but I’m going to take profit at btc 50k, 75k and 100k.  
Click to expand...
Well, part of my plan was to sell my paypal btc Dec 31st and consolidate from other accounts into BlockFi. Also, moved any other crypto to just btc for now.
FYI - I have less than 1 btc. It was just broken up into different accounts

  • Did the paypal sale & transfer. Funds on hold. Of course, I sold in mid $29k range and last I checked it's at ~$33k
  • Will DCA buy over the next couple of months.
  • After that. Hold and reassess at the end of 2021.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have all intentions of holding all year and then some, especially as blockfi returns interest on it as well.  I’ve bought the last few days at anywhere from 27-32k along with before that and am still buying more.  I’m holding about 70% of what I own in Bitcoin right now and feel pretty confident in that.

 
brun said:
For those considering using PayPal for your crypto.
I just executed a couple of sell actions this morning on my phone. I found that you cannot specify the price at which you want to sell (like a limit order). Eye/hand coordination is very important if you want to sell at the price you see on the screen.
Click to expand...
I use Paypal, but it's very limited/basic. No limits, reports, etc.

I would love if Fidelity would ever get into this so I can just invest in one spot.

 
Since mid November, I have added about $1500 to get started with bitcoin. It's been doing very well. I'm still much more dedicated to stocks, but am seeing the upside since I've been in.

  • Why is Bitcoin going up so dramatically in the last 24-48 hours?
  • I see predictions of hitting 30K, but even that was not this soon. Any worries about a pullback, even significant coming?
  • How much does the current US/global economy play into the performance we are seeing for bitcoin?
  • Where do you see bitcoin being on December 31, 2021?
From an investing standpoint, like I said, I'm new to this, and slightly late, but plan to keep adding (modestly), but happy I am giving this a shot, and thing longer-term. Any advice on how to proceed with investing?

 
cubd8 said:
I use Paypal, but it's very limited/basic. No limits, reports, etc.

I would love if Fidelity would ever get into this so I can just invest in one spot.
Click to expand...
Right now I think buying Microstrategy stock is as close as you'll get. 

 
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