Venezuela Thread

[rogwadd 63]

I was wondering when this was going to happen.  Going down tomorrow.

https://dcist.com/story/19/04/24/activists-have-been-living-in-the-venezuelan-embassy-for-two-weeks/

Chains have been wrapped around the front entrance (my office is next door) for weeks and apart from an occasional protester, it's been relatively quite since the military attache buildings were taken by Guaido. In the last few days an entire manifesto had been posted in adjacent windows.  I'm trying to get some work wrapped up before next week and when I return from grabbing a bite to eat, I discover the beginnings of a gathering, Secret Service agents, and some cameras. Americans (boomer age) have been filtering into  a back entrance to the building.

I'm done for the evening and checking out the activity outside.  At one point, dozens of people (boomer Americans, Vietnam vet in a wheelchair included) pour out from the rear of the building to wave their signs and sing a ballad.  I had a bourbon and cigarette in hand, so no room for a camera.  Returned for my camera and submitting these pics.  At one point we had five Secret Service vehicles stationed there. I'm staying, because this place was originally a residence (and FOR SALE). We'll see what goes down tomorrow.

 Hoping these are  a good link. Misplaced a previous imgur account.

https://imgur.com/MvgMKh1

https://imgur.com/wRzZLEc

https://imgur.com/0oTwiXh

[ren hoek 4,995]

On 4/20/2019 at 5:32 AM, msommer said:

Venezuela skirts US sanctions by channelling oil sales via Rosneft

More money stolen from the Venezuelan people ending in the oligarchs' pockets

Somehow it’s Venezuela’s fault that they can no longer participate in western markets, and therefore lean heavier on Russian markets.  Apparently they’re supposed to just wither and die until Trump’s puppet regime takes over.  

[ren hoek 4,995]

CEPR @ceprdc

New Report: US #sanctions on #Venezuela are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. “The sanctions are depriving Venezuelans of lifesaving medicines, medical equipment, food, and other essential imports,” said @MarkWeisbrot. http://cepr.net/publications/reports/economic-sanctions-as-collective-punishment-the-case-of-venezuela

[ren hoek 4,995]

http://cepr.net/press-center/press-releases/report-finds-us-sanctions-on-venezuela-are-responsible-for-tens-of-thousands-of-deaths

The authors also explain how the sanctions prevent an economic recovery from the country’s severe economic depression and hyperinflation.
“Venezuela’s economic crisis is routinely blamed all on Venezuela,” said Jeffrey Sachs, co-author of the paper. “But it is much more than that. American sanctions are deliberately aiming to wreck Venezuela’s economy and thereby lead to regime change. It’s a fruitless, heartless, illegal, and failed policy, causing grave harm to the Venezuelan people.”

Among the results of broad economic sanctions implemented by the Trump administration since August 2017:

An estimated more than 40,000 deaths from 2017–18;

The sanctions have reduced the availability of food and medicine, and increased disease and mortality;

The August 2017 sanctions contributed to a sharp decline in oil production that caused great harm to the civilian population;

The US sanctions implemented since January, if they continue will almost certainly result in tens of thousands more avoidable deaths;

This is based on an estimated 80,000 people with HIV who have not had antiretroviral treatment since 2017, 16,000 people who need dialysis, 16,000 people with cancer, and 4 million with diabetes and hypertension (many of whom cannot obtain insulin or cardiovascular medicine);

Since the sanctions that began in January 2019, oil production has fallen by 431,000 barrels per day or 36.4 percent. This will greatly accelerate the humanitarian crisis, but the projected 67 percent decline in oil production for the year, if the sanctions continue, would cause vastly more loss of human life.

// Well there you have it. ⬆️

US sanctions, as per usual, are killing innocent people, robbing them of lifesaving medicine, and deliberately wrecking the Venezuelan economy to set the stage for regime change.  US needs to end the sanctions regime and quit trying to install the neocon puppet Guaido.  

[The Z Machine 4,974]

Stuff *might* be going down this morning in the Veez.

[SaintsInDome2006 47,477]

Venezuela's Guaido says troops join him to oust Maduro; government says it is in control

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics/venezuelas-guaido-says-troops-have-joined-him-to-end-maduro-presidency-idUSKCN1S60ZQ

 

 

 

[The Z Machine 4,974]

35 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Venezuela's Guaido says troops join him to oust Maduro; government says it is in control

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics/venezuelas-guaido-says-troops-have-joined-him-to-end-maduro-presidency-idUSKCN1S60ZQ

 

 

 

The situation is very fluid right now.  No reports of fighting, but social media seems to be blocked country-wide so info isn't flowing well.

[timschochet 34,156]

I support President Trump on this issue- hoping for a peaceful transition of power. 

[Slapdash 16,240]

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told CNN that “as we understand it” Maduro had been ready to depart for socialist ally Cuba, but had been persuaded to stay by Russia, which has also been a steadfast supporter. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics/venezuelas-guaido-calls-for-uprising-but-military-loyal-to-maduro-for-now-idUSKCN1S60ZQ

Of course.

[SaintsInDome2006 47,477]

Graphic image warning: Maduro police rolling over protesters.

Edited May 1, 2019 by SaintsInDome2006

[timschochet 34,156]

25 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told CNN that “as we understand it” Maduro had been ready to depart for socialist ally Cuba, but had been persuaded to stay by Russia, which has also been a steadfast supporter. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics/venezuelas-guaido-calls-for-uprising-but-military-loyal-to-maduro-for-now-idUSKCN1S60ZQ

Of course.

Bolton said we are warning Russia to stay out of it. Let’s see if the administration means it this time. 

If they do I support them. The Monroe Doctrine is one of our oldest and best foreign policies. 

[ren hoek 4,995]

https://twitter.com/SamerKaram/status/1121342149121859584

"I trust Pompeo"🤤

[Slapdash 16,240]

2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Bolton said we are warning Russia to stay out of it. Let’s see if the administration means it this time. 

If they do I support them. The Monroe Doctrine is one of our oldest and best foreign policies. 

It was a good and helpful policy.  Has it outlived its usefulness though?  Maybe.  This isn't a case where it has though.

[ren hoek 4,995]

2 hours ago, timschochet said:

Bolton said we are warning Russia to stay out of it. Let’s see if the administration means it this time. 

Good luck convincing these people.  Doesn't matter how many times Trump subverts Russian interests, they are forever convinced of Trump/Putin conspiracy.  It is completely brainless.  

[timschochet 34,156]

29 minutes ago, Slapdash said:

It was a good and helpful policy.  Has it outlived its usefulness though? 

I don’t think so. The basis of the policy is we don’t let other powers screw around in the Western Hemisphere. That doesn’t mean we get to do whatever we want, we just make sure others stay out. 

[timschochet 34,156]

18 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Good luck convincing these people.  Doesn't matter how many times Trump subverts Russian interests, they are forever convinced of Trump/Putin conspiracy.  It is completely brainless.  

I’m not a conspiracy freak, and I don’t think Trunp conspired with Putin. But Putin did try to help Trump get elected and Trump welcomed his help, and I think that’s rotten. This current situation proves nothing to that point one way or the other. 

[John Blutarsky 3,676]

5 minutes ago, timschochet said:

I’m not a conspiracy freak, and I don’t think Trunp conspired with Putin. But Putin did try to help Trump get elected and Trump welcomed his help, and I think that’s rotten. This current situation proves nothing to that point one way or the other. 

There it is.....no conspiracy! 

[SaintsInDome2006 47,477]

9 hours ago, ren hoek said:

Good luck convincing these people.  Doesn't matter how many times Trump subverts Russian interests, they are forever convinced of Trump/Putin conspiracy.  It is completely brainless.  

He said Bolton, not Trump.

Trump hasn’t said a word about the Russian presence.

[ren hoek 4,995]

1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

He said Bolton, not Trump.

Trump hasn’t said a word about the Russian presence.

He said "Let’s see if the administration means it this time."

In a meeting with the coup leader's wife, Trump said "Russia has to get out."  

[SaintsInDome2006 47,477]

9 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

He said "Let’s see if the administration means it this time."

In a meeting with the coup leader's wife, Trump said "Russia has to get out."  

Quote

Asked if he'd communicated that message to Russia through one of his representatives, Trump said "they know very well."

That's Trump-speak for he hasn't said a word to Putin.

[Stealthycat 1,703]

the Govt of Venezuela has failed the people of Venezuela

the people of Venezuela have a responsibility to act and at some point, they will ... if not today, next month, next year, ..... the people are in a bad situation because they trusted socialism, they trusted the Govt to provide

now the people of Venezuela are going to hurt terribly to get their country back 

[E Street Brat 1,617]

3 hours ago, Stealthycat said:

the Govt of Venezuela has failed the people of Venezuela

the people of Venezuela have a responsibility to act and at some point, they will ... if not today, next month, next year, ..... the people are in a bad situation because they trusted socialism, they trusted the Govt to provide

now the people of Venezuela are going to hurt terribly to get their country back 

If only the people still had guns, 

[Slapdash 16,240]

14 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t think so. The basis of the policy is we don’t let other powers screw around in the Western Hemisphere. That doesn’t mean we get to do whatever we want, we just make sure others stay out. 

There are a few possible motivations for doing that.  Some are closer to imperialism, some are in support of democracy/freedom among our neighbors.  This is more of the latter, but we've been on the other side of the coin too.

[Stealthycat 1,703]

24 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

If only the people still had guns, 

that would greatly help ... but I don't think communist/socialist countries allow the people that power,  only republic's do

but even in 1995 ... the Govt/military/police were the dominant forces around Caracas, patrolling the streets with brute force ... we were held one night by police ... thought I might die that night in barrios .... but our manager gave them enough money to leave us alone that night 

[JuniorNB 7,258]

4 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

That's Trump-speak for he hasn't said a word to Putin.

Exactly.  He is scared to death of Putin.  He's not ever saying anything threatening to him. Russia owns us because of this dynamic. Which is the very reason the investigation was, and continues to be, justified.

[Shula-holic 2,319]

24 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Exactly.  He is scared to death of Putin.  He's not ever saying anything threatening to him. Russia owns us because of this dynamic. Which is the very reason the investigation was, and continues to be, justified.

So you have this figured out as he's scared of someone you also suspect of aiding him?

[JuniorNB 7,258]

2 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

So you have this figured out as he's scared of someone you also suspect of aiding him?

Putin aided him because he knew he had Trump in his back pocket. And he has him even deeper in his back pocket now. At any moment, Putin could make Trump's whole world crumble down. And Trump knows it.  So yes to your above.

[Shula-holic 2,319]

1 minute ago, JuniorNB said:

Putin aided him because he knew he had Trump in his back pocket. And he has him even deeper in his back pocket now. At any moment, Putin could make Trump's whole world crumble down. And Trump knows it.  So yes to your above.

I haven't seen any evidence of this.  It does appear quite evident however that Russia did interfere in sowing political discord and contempt between the two political parties in this country.  Even though both are pretty close to lock step agreement to how to handle this situation in Venezuela, we have people suspecting the other side of being Russian agents.  I think anyone believing that is more in Putin's back pocket than they even suspect Trump of being.

[supermike80 1,500]

I'm hoping Cuba gets their hands off this mess.  I don't need the government increasing sanctions when I got a package in the mail that hasn't gotten here yet!!!

[JuniorNB 7,258]

27 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

I haven't seen any evidence of this.  It does appear quite evident however that Russia did interfere in sowing political discord and contempt between the two political parties in this country.  Even though both are pretty close to lock step agreement to how to handle this situation in Venezuela, we have people suspecting the other side of being Russian agents.  I think anyone believing that is more in Putin's back pocket than they even suspect Trump of being.

Well then Fox News must not be showing it. He's told by 14 different US intelligent agencies that they have proof that Russia tampered with our election and Trump says he talked to Putin and he strongly demies it. And he has no reason to think Putin would lie.  That is a man who is compromised. Not sure what you mean with the 'boff sides' stuff.  Putin hated Hillary because he knew she hated him and wouldn't bow down to him. There is no both sides here.

[Shula-holic 2,319]

2 hours ago, JuniorNB said:

Well then Fox News must not be showing it. He's told by 14 different US intelligent agencies that they have proof that Russia tampered with our election and Trump says he talked to Putin and he strongly demies it. And he has no reason to think Putin would lie.  That is a man who is compromised. Not sure what you mean with the 'boff sides' stuff.  Putin hated Hillary because he knew she hated him and wouldn't bow down to him. There is no both sides here.

Your response is telling.  Most anyone reasonable recognizes the Russians tampered with our elections.   But they also did so in a way to set people against one another more than anything.  I've voted for more Democrats in presidential elections than I have Republicans.  I also voted Democrat for both Governor and Senate in the last election.  So I come from both sides I guess.  But if you feel like when someone disagrees with you they only watch Fox News then keep on living in delusion, but try to have enough self realization to think that it's possible you are buying into what the Russians want.  

[ren hoek 4,995]

Hassan El-Tayyab

5 Thoughts on Venezuela for @SecPompeo :

1. It’s against international law for a country to seek regime change in another county. Recognizing the VZ opposition and supporting this coup attempt is illegal. 

2. We must reject the coup in VZ and support dialogue being called for by the UN, Mexico, Uruguay, and the Vatican. If the VZ people want to have another election I would fully support that. But that’s up to the VZ people and not the Trump Administration.

3. We must take unauthorized military force completely off the table. It is illegal under Article 1 Section 8 of our constitution for anyone but Congress to declare war. Bolton, Trump, and Pompeo seem to forget that. We should ask Senators to support SJRes11, to prevent war in VZ

4. US sanctions on VZ are killing people and making a bad situation worse. According to the Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR), they have already killed about 40,000 people by stopping the flow of food and medicine. Sanctions typically do nothing but hurt vulnerable people. The sanctions on Iraq under Clinton did nothing to oust Saddam. They did kill hundreds of thousands of children. Let’s not let VZ become another Iraq.

5. Juan Guiado and his opposition party only make up about 14 members of the national assembly. He planned this coup attempt pretty much in secret with only 4 people close to him. Many folks in VZ that don’t like Maduro also reject Guiado, foreign interference, and the sanctions

Guiado’s coup attempt failed miserably yesterday and proves that the majority of VZ people don’t want this. Without the US backing, Guiado is powerless. Supporting him = violating international law and supporting more violence inside VZ. @SecPompeo #HandsOffVenenuela

[timschochet 34,156]

19 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

1. It’s against international law for a country to seek regime change in another county. 

Let’s just stop with this point here. Not that I’m an expert on international law, but what a terrible notion. So we’re just supposed to accept every government the Earth has to offer no matter how awful or evil? Apartheid South Africa? Stalinist Russia? Pol Pot’s Cambodia? 

Is this really your idea of law? Or even worse, your idea of justice? 

[zoonation 5,157]

38 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Let’s just stop with this point here. Not that I’m an expert on international law, but what a terrible notion. So we’re just supposed to accept every government the Earth has to offer no matter how awful or evil? Apartheid South Africa? Stalinist Russia? Pol Pot’s Cambodia? 

Is this really your idea of law? Or even worse, your idea of justice? 

So you were good with the US going into Iraq to remove a murderous dictator?  

Should the US actively work to effect regime change in North Korea?

Edited May 2, 2019 by zoonation

[timschochet 34,156]

1 hour ago, zoonation said:

So you were good with the US going into Iraq to remove a murderous dictator?  

Should the US actively work to effect regime change in North Korea?

1. It wasn’t the wisest move. But was I OK with removing Hussein? Of course. One of the worst mass murderers in history. 

2. Unfortunately we can’t because they’re too powerful. But the world would certainly be a better place if we could. 

[rogwadd 63]

This ish is fascinating.   The real Venezuelans have returned and the leader of Code Pink did the Cersei Lannister walk of shame down 30th St just after sunset,  but has returned. I so wish I could link video directly..

 

.

[rogwadd 63]

And if we could post Venezuelan yoga pants!!!

Edited May 3, 2019 by rogwadd
typo, yeah yoga pants

[ren hoek 4,995]

The Iraq War- it wasn't the wisest move.  

[ren hoek 4,995]

Apparently Bolton and his neocon regime change tool Juan Guaido got played by Venezuelan officials.  Another failed coup attempt.  First there was this exchange between Bolton and what appears to be two VZ generals and a Supreme Court rep.  

Then there was this sequence of events:

Looks pretty clearly like Guaido and John Bolton were duped by Venezuelan Defense Minister @vladimirpadrino and paid an embarrassing price for it

Walrus-like Chickenhawk @AmbJohnBolton may have hijacked Trump's foreign policy, but he's having a hard time getting the generals to go along with his plan to exchange the blood of American soldiers for Venezuela's vast oil wealth

On April 30, @AmbJohnBolton and Juan Guaido enacted a plan to turn Venezuela’s military against President Nicolas @maduro_en. Here’s how that worked out:

On April 30, @jguaido assured Washington that he had the support of the Venezuelan people and the country’s armed forces as he and his mentor, Leopoldo Lopez, launched another coup. Here they are after it flopped. (Lopez soon fled into the Chilean embassy.)

[Sand 5,786]

On 4/30/2019 at 9:57 PM, timschochet said:

I’m not a conspiracy freak, and I don’t think Trunp conspired with Putin. But Putin did try to help Trump get elected and Trump welcomed his help, and I think that’s rotten. This current situation proves nothing to that point one way or the other. 

We will always have foreign influences in our elections (just like we interfere in others - i.e. Obama admin --> Israel).  Just the way it is.  Russia's attempts were ham handed and completely ineffectual, luckily.

On 5/1/2019 at 8:44 PM, timschochet said:

So we’re just supposed to accept every government the Earth has to offer no matter how awful or evil? Apartheid South Africa? Stalinist Russia? Pol Pot’s Cambodia? 

Russians approve of this.  Scary.

[timschochet 34,156]

Just now, Sand said:

  Russia's attempts were completely ineffectual, luckily.

I’m not sure you can make this statement with any confidence at this point. I certainly can’t. 

[SaintsInDome2006 47,477]

1 hour ago, Bucky86 said:

AP EXCLUSIVE: A Venezuelan general wanted to bring his 3-year-old son to the U.S. for brain surgery. The Trump administration denied the request

 

https://apnews.com/782830e0f8bb4feea3d2f35561a2f5af?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP

Amazing.

[ren hoek 4,995]

https://twitter.com/AliMortell/status/1124477473218080768

Imagine the police response if anyone did this to the Israeli embassy.

[ren hoek 4,995]

2 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

What are we looking at here?

Opposition protesters wailing on doors of Venezuelan embassy. 

[ren hoek 4,995]

Just now, Slapdash said:

You are going to report me for pointing out you are linking to Sputnik/Russian government "journalists"?  Bring it on.

No, for calling everything that disagrees with your worldview propaganda.  Then when I ask you to explain how it's propaganda, you yell Russia.  Of all people, against a journalist who was arrested for covering the antiTrump J20 protests.  Incredible really

[The Z Machine 4,974]

Great job, Trumpo

[Sand 5,786]

Good article about the activities of socialist leaders in Venezuela.  They're working for the people, making sure that the common good is spread around to all.  At least, they'll back completely fraudulent Chinese infrastructure contracts for a measly 100M in kickbacks.  Close enough.

Socialism is awesome - for the people.

[SoBeDad 2,291]

Trump deplores Chavistas, but did he cash in selling property to one of them?

Trump's priorities are his personal economy and getting the Cuban and Venezuelan vote in South Florida.

 

 

 

[lod001 5,406]

17 hours ago, SoBeDad said:

Trump deplores Chavistas, but did he cash in selling property to one of them?

Trump's priorities are his personal economy and getting the Cuban and Venezuelan vote in South Florida.

 

 

 

Every politicians priority is his/her personal economy & getting votes. 

[Slapdash 16,240]

Good, factual chart of the VZ oil industry decline:  https://twitter.com/SergiLanauIIF/status/1126205611501346816