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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Got a QB! Don't ruin him!


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3 hours ago, RushHour said:

Fair, but I still think he gets more scrutiny than any other QB in the entire league. I mean, Daniel Jones is awful too but he had one good week and an ok preseason against backups and suddenly he's "Danny Dimes". He was bad today but the pitchforks won't be out for quite a while because the media narrative is in his favour (ironically, since the pick was panned after the draft). Josh Allen is the same. No one could argue that Trubisky has been impressive, but other QBs have bad games all the time and they get a pass. Every bad throw of Trubisky's is cause for a pile on. I can't imagine the mental toll that would take on a player, and then to be stuck with a disaster like Nagy on top of it.

I still think Trubisky is a good talent, better than he will ever get credit for now, but it's never going to happen for him in Chicago. Everyone needs a change of scenery. 

Bears fans felt the same about Trubisky, a couple nice runs and some throws year one, and it was "money mitch, we got our guy now we just need to get rid of John Fox and get a real offense". Year two, we saw the Miami and Tampa games and said this is what he can be, we are set, and for the bad games it was, well this his really his rookie year since you can't count time under Fox, next year we'll be putting up points like KC and phily.  Now we are year three. All off-season we were told the offense was going to 201 level, Mitch is growing into the roll, it's going great. Then we get this pathetic offense with a QB making few plays, and the shine has worn off and some are starting to think this is all Mitch is.

He is in his third year as an NFL starter. Time to show he can win you games or it's time to move on.

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Here's what strikes me as bizarre:

- The Bears don't run sweeps or reverses. Can we safely say every other team in the league does?

- The Bears don't use max protect schemes, despite their line being terrible. No two tight ends who block, no back who isn't running a route.

- Every pass play is a straight back 5 or 7 step drop. The Bears don't use bootlegs or moving pockets.

What kind of team abandons basic pro schemes?

Edited by rschroeder1
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3 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Matt Nagy: “I really thought our run game would be better.”

Ran the ball a franchise low 7 times. Is Nagy mentally disabled? 

The guy really doesn't get how running the ball works. Even if it's not working you keep doing it. He's so in over his head here. 

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9 hours ago, The Tick said:

Bears fans felt the same about Trubisky, a couple nice runs and some throws year one, and it was "money mitch, we got our guy now we just need to get rid of John Fox and get a real offense". Year two, we saw the Miami and Tampa games and said this is what he can be, we are set, and for the bad games it was, well this his really his rookie year since you can't count time under Fox, next year we'll be putting up points like KC and phily.  Now we are year three. All off-season we were told the offense was going to 201 level, Mitch is growing into the roll, it's going great. Then we get this pathetic offense with a QB making few plays, and the shine has worn off and some are starting to think this is all Mitch is.

He is in his third year as an NFL starter. Time to show he can win you games or it's time to move on.

Preach.  Trubisky seems to completely ignore the progressions, going directly to a check down every single time.  When his 1st target manages to get open, he misses them often.  Sure, the OL isn't doing the offense any favors, but this is on Trubisky and his lack of progress in what should be his break out year.

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55 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Matt Nagy: “I really thought our run game would be better.”

Ran the ball a franchise low 7 times. Is Nagy mentally disabled? 

I laughed off some of the Marc Trestman comparisons the last few weeks, but Nagy really is following right in his foot steps. 

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8 hours ago, rschroeder1 said:

- The Bears don't use max protect schemes, despite their line being terrible. No two tight ends who block, no back who isn't running a route.

This is huge. They played 5 damn games before the bye. They know their line is really struggling. Yet no attempt to give them help. 

I'd add to that... How about trying to throw your RB a screen pass or some short passes to get him in space if you think he can make plays. And I'm not talking about Cohen. 

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2 minutes ago, RBM said:

This is huge. They played 5 damn games before the bye. They know their line is really struggling. Yet no attempt to give them help. 

I'd add to that... How about trying to throw your RB a screen pass or some short passes to get him in space if you think he can make plays. And I'm not talking about Cohen. 

I don't think the pass blocking has been terrible at all.  Mitch has had time to make a lot of throws and just doesn't see the guy or misses the throw. He bails out of the pocket for no reason sometimes. 

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3 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Wish Jay had these type of weapons. 

After yesterday's game I think Mitch might be just as good as Cutler at racking up garbage time fantasy points when the game is out of reach.  Mitch just needs to start throwing more into triple coverage like he did in the Green Bay game so the he can throw more interceptions and you have the same QB.  

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Na

8 minutes ago, oddsbodkins said:

Not only this, 7 rushing attempts ties for 4th ALL TIME in the sport of organized football. Nagy is a complete and utter nincompoop. 

I couldn't believe this. And 2 of them were fumbles - reverse to Miller and Monty.  The offensive line was atrocious. 

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2 hours ago, flapgreen said:

I don't think the pass blocking has been terrible at all.  Mitch has had time to make a lot of throws and just doesn't see the guy or misses the throw. He bails out of the pocket for no reason sometimes. 

The blocking is not great.  The pass blocking has been better than the run blocking at least.

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10 minutes ago, yoman said:

After yesterday's game I think Mitch might be just as good as Cutler at racking up garbage time fantasy points when the game is out of reach.  Mitch just needs to start throwing more into triple coverage like he did in the Green Bay game so the he can throw more interceptions and you have the same QB.  

Completely different quarterbacks

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11 hours ago, rschroeder1 said:

Here's what strikes me as bizarre:

- The Bears don't run sweeps or reverses. Can we safely say every other team in the league does?

- The Bears don't use max protect schemes, despite their line being terrible. No two tight ends who block, no back who isn't running a route.

- Every pass play is a straight back 5 or 7 step drop. The Bears don't use bootlegs or moving pockets.

What kind of team abandons basic pro schemes?

There's a ton of ineptitude in the coaching ranks right now. possibly an all-time high. Pretty sure if Bill Walsh was alive today and coaching in the NFL, the 49ers would beat the living crap out of these 'I wanna call plays that are tricky' coaches.

Rarely do you even see a team call a slant pass yet it is so easy with a good route runner.

 

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1 hour ago, yoman said:
1 hour ago, oddsbodkins said:

Not only this, 7 rushing attempts ties for 4th ALL TIME in the sport of organized football. Nagy is a complete and utter nincompoop. 

I couldn't believe this. And 2 of them were fumbles - reverse to Miller and Monty.  The offensive line was atrocious. 

To put it another way: the Bears had a grand total of 4 rushing attempts by running backs which were not fumbled away. That ties the all-time low in the history of the NFL.

 

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20 minutes ago, lod001 said:

There's a ton of ineptitude in the coaching ranks right now. possibly an all-time high. Pretty sure if Bill Walsh was alive today and coaching in the NFL, the 49ers would beat the living crap out of these 'I wanna call plays that are tricky' coaches.

Rarely do you even see a team call a slant pass yet it is so easy with a good route runner.

 

I was actually thinking about the lack of slant passes this morning.  The only routes the Bears seem to run (to the naked eye on TV, in fairness), is outs and square ins.

Perhaps they trust Trubisky that little...

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48 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The blocking is not great.  The pass blocking has been better than the run blocking at least.

This is almost the same line we had back in 2016 and ran the ball all over the place.  Back then we said they sucked at pass protection but were pretty good in the run game.  Whose fault is it that this has changed???  The players, the coaches?  I honestly don't get it.

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1 minute ago, The Tick said:

This is almost the same line we had back in 2016 and ran the ball all over the place.  Back then we said they sucked at pass protection but were pretty good in the run game.  Whose fault is it that this has changed???  The players, the coaches?  I honestly don't get it.

I'm not sure who's at fault but something needs to change because this isn't going to work.

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10 minutes ago, rschroeder1 said:

Am I crazy to think that giving Tyler Bray a chance is the next move here?  We know what Daniel is.  I might be crazy.

When has the "play the 3rd string QB behind a terrible line" strategy ever worked out?

Seems like all it ever does is make the team worse while simultaneously destroying the confidence of the 3rd string quarterback.

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Mitch is a bust and Daniel is also terrible. Pace whiffed on the pick of the litter at QB. It happens. But to double down to believe that Mitch is the answer 3 years in and to have a crappy back-up for a team supposedly contending is inexcusable. The Mack trade is a deal a contender makes. Having no draft picks and not having a contingency plan at QB is going to set the franchise back another decade; again.

Another thing I don't get is that if Howard supposedly wasn't a fit, then what is the "fit" at RB? The Bears entrusted the rushing game to an unproven rookie and tiny Tarik? Two guys that won't be confused with power backs. They go out and get Mike Davis who is so terrible at football he's a scratch every week on team with no running game? So if they don't want to run power, what do they want to do? How come they aren't doing it?

They really are dumpster fire. I can't figure out what their identity is supposed to be. The "talent" they have amassed obviously can't run whatever scheme they think they are. Nagy has to go. Pace put all his chips in but failed. Seeing the Saints dominate the Bears with a back-up QB, back-up RB and a depleted WR group shows how important it is to have legit talent behind the starters. Bridgewater is playing better than Mitch and Daniel. Murray is better than any RB they have. Not having depth is on Pace, he really should go too.

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1 hour ago, [scooter] said:

To put it another way: the Bears had a grand total of 4 rushing attempts by running backs which were not fumbled away. That ties the all-time low in the history of the NFL.

 

You can't win like that. Their line was manhandled by the Saints.  They try to get too cute on their runs as well. At least let the line try to establish the run since they can't pass block

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34 minutes ago, ericttspikes said:

Mitch is a bust and Daniel is also terrible. Pace whiffed on the pick of the litter at QB.

Trubisky may be a "bust" in comparison to other first-round QBs, but he has shown to be a competent game manager when surrounded by other talented players. In that context, there are really only about 20-25 quarterbacks in the world who aren't busts.

So the question for the Bears (and really, it's a question for every team in the NFL): do you want to continue chasing after that elusive one-in-a-million quarterback, or do you want to stick with a journeyman and surround him with solid players?

The advantage of sticking with the journeyman is that you can basically plug any quarterback into the system without losing a beat. The disadvantage of chasing a unicorn is that if you draft the wrong guy, then it can set your team back for years.

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10 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Trubisky may be a "bust" in comparison to other first-round QBs, but he has shown to be a competent game manager when surrounded by other talented players. In that context, there are really only about 20-25 quarterbacks in the world who aren't busts.

So the question for the Bears (and really, it's a question for every team in the NFL): do you want to continue chasing after that elusive one-in-a-million quarterback, or do you want to stick with a journeyman and surround him with solid players?

The advantage of sticking with the journeyman is that you can basically plug any quarterback into the system without losing a beat. The disadvantage of chasing a unicorn is that if you draft the wrong guy, then it can set your team back for years.

Last year’s competent game manager with potential feels like ages ago compared to this years completely inept Mitch. He is surrounded by talent. He’s getting time. He cannot make simple throws. He doesn’t have a clue what to do if his first read is covered. He has no clue where to go with the ball when being blitzed. He is a disaster. Worst starting qb in the league right now. 

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3 minutes ago, RBM said:
13 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Trubisky may be a "bust" in comparison to other first-round QBs, but he has shown to be a competent game manager when surrounded by other talented players. In that context, there are really only about 20-25 quarterbacks in the world who aren't busts.

So the question for the Bears (and really, it's a question for every team in the NFL): do you want to continue chasing after that elusive one-in-a-million quarterback, or do you want to stick with a journeyman and surround him with solid players?

The advantage of sticking with the journeyman is that you can basically plug any quarterback into the system without losing a beat. The disadvantage of chasing a unicorn is that if you draft the wrong guy, then it can set your team back for years.

Last year’s competent game manager with potential feels like ages ago compared to this years completely inept Mitch. He is surrounded by talent. He’s getting time. He cannot make simple throws. He doesn’t have a clue what to do if his first read is covered. He has no clue where to go with the ball when being blitzed. He is a disaster. Worst starting qb in the league right now. 

Last year, Chicago's O-line was ranked 7th in pass protection. This year, they're ranked 19th. (link)

Then again, the drop could be partly explained by Trubisky holding on to the ball too long.

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2 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Trubisky may be a "bust" in comparison to other first-round QBs, but he has shown to be a competent game manager when surrounded by other talented players. In that context, there are really only about 20-25 quarterbacks in the world who aren't busts.

So the question for the Bears (and really, it's a question for every team in the NFL): do you want to continue chasing after that elusive one-in-a-million quarterback, or do you want to stick with a journeyman and surround him with solid players?

The advantage of sticking with the journeyman is that you can basically plug any quarterback into the system without losing a beat. The disadvantage of chasing a unicorn is that if you draft the wrong guy, then it can set your team back for years.

Yes a bust as a franchise QB, but I'm not even sure he's a journeyman level QB after 3 years. I don't see a guy who looks like he understands what is going on the field or has leadership qualities you'd want from even a game manager. 

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6 minutes ago, ericttspikes said:

Yes a bust as a franchise QB

OK but there are only 10-15 "franchise quarterbacks" in the world, and maybe another 10-15 guys who could lead you to a Super Bowl.

Is it really cost-efficient for a team to continue to waste season after season chasing that elusive "franchise QB"? Wouldn't that time and money be better spent building a solid team at every other position, then plugging in replacement level quarterbacks?

If you look at the history of NFL champions, very few of them were created from the "draft a franchise QB and build around him" method. Even if you look at recent teams that won with a 1st-round-QB (e.g., Ravens and Giants), their quarterbacks weren't really "franchise" quarterbacks, but the teams had elite players at several other positions.

Is Trubisky really that much worse than Joe Flacco? I don't recall people saying so in 2018.

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3 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

OK but there are only 10-15 "franchise quarterbacks" in the world, and maybe another 10-15 guys who could lead you to a Super Bowl.

Is it really cost-efficient for a team to continue to waste season after season chasing that elusive "franchise QB"? Wouldn't that time and money be better spent building a solid team at every other position, then plugging in replacement level quarterbacks?

If you look at the history of NFL champions, very few of them were created from the "draft a franchise QB and build around him" method. Even if you look at recent teams that won with a 1st-round-QB (e.g., Ravens and Giants), their quarterbacks weren't really "franchise" quarterbacks, but the teams had elite players at several other positions.

Is Trubisky really that much worse than Joe Flacco? I don't recall people saying so in 2018.

Yes, right now Mitch is supposed to be working into his prime and he is much worst then Flacco or Manning were at that point.  Those other guys while not perfect, were hitting some big plays, were winning some games based on their talent, were putting points on the board.  So far Mitch is not, how much longer can we wait to see if he's going to get better?  We can not pick up his 5th year option at this point, can't sink that much money into a guy that isn't putting points up on the board.  A lot of this may be the fault of Nagy's offense and his inability to adjust his offense to something we can accomplish, but we have the data we have, and you can't push forward with a QB like this.

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9 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

If you look at the history of NFL champions, very few of them were created from the "draft a franchise QB and build around him" method. Even if you look at recent teams that won with a 1st-round-QB (e.g., Ravens and Giants), their quarterbacks weren't really "franchise" quarterbacks, but the teams had elite players at several other positions.

I was thinking about this when comparing him to DeShaun Watson.  Would any member of that Bears offense outside of ARob start for the Texans right now?

At some point the lack of weapons has to be taken into consideration.

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1 hour ago, ericttspikes said:

Mitch is a bust and Daniel is also terrible. Pace whiffed on the pick of the litter at QB. It happens. But to double down to believe that Mitch is the answer 3 years in and to have a crappy back-up for a team supposedly contending is inexcusable. The Mack trade is a deal a contender makes. Having no draft picks and not having a contingency plan at QB is going to set the franchise back another decade; again.

Another thing I don't get is that if Howard supposedly wasn't a fit, then what is the "fit" at RB? The Bears entrusted the rushing game to an unproven rookie and tiny Tarik? Two guys that won't be confused with power backs. They go out and get Mike Davis who is so terrible at football he's a scratch every week on team with no running game? So if they don't want to run power, what do they want to do? How come they aren't doing it?

They really are dumpster fire. I can't figure out what their identity is supposed to be. The "talent" they have amassed obviously can't run whatever scheme they think they are. Nagy has to go. Pace put all his chips in but failed. Seeing the Saints dominate the Bears with a back-up QB, back-up RB and a depleted WR group shows how important it is to have legit talent behind the starters. Bridgewater is playing better than Mitch and Daniel. Murray is better than any RB they have. Not having depth is on Pace, he really should go too.

Pace may have whiffed on a lot this whole offense and it's architect were either drafted or signed by him directly.  I don't think there are any leftovers from a previous regime, this is the team Pace put together and right now the offense is trash.   3 points outside of garbage time yesterday, that is absolutely pitiful.  I don't think he should have another chance to fix it.  I'd fire pace, maybe let Nagy coach out the year and coach for his job with a new GM, see if he can figure out how to call running plans when he knows his job is on the line instead of Pace up there BSing about incremental improvement.

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9 minutes ago, The Tick said:
10 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Eli was 8-8 with a 77.0 passer rating in his 3rd year.

ok, i'll admit, that surprises me, I thought they were starting to get in the playoffs at that point...

They won the Super Bowl in Eli's 4th year, but he was arguably worse then (he led the NFL in interceptions with 20, to go along with 13 fumbles -- 2nd most among QBs).

But the Giants built a solid team around him....

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  • flapgreen changed the title to ***Chicago Bears Thread*** Got a QB! Don't ruin him!

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