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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Poles is playing 5D chess! (8 Viewers)

The Rams planned on J Goff sitting for a season but......
Using Flaps words- how do you know what they were truly thinking? History doesn't lie. QB's taken early start early. That's why you make sure you take one that is as close to being ready as possible. This draft was not a good QB draft. The Bears round pegged a square hole. 

Using more of Flaps examples - it didn't take as much to move up to get Trubinksy. Why? Any team that wanted a QB could have moved up and paid much less than any other QB taken early in previous years. Is that because Trubisky isn't viewed as a NFL ready QB by the rest of the league?  Sorry, everyone except for the Browns and the Bears. Oooof.

 
Alright. What approach do you recommend? How would you address the qb situation? 
Step 1 - Fire the GM

Step 2 - Fire Phillips.

Step 3 - Hire someone with a proven track record of success.

Step 4 - If you can't do the first 3 steps, then copy someone who has been successful. 

Really, could I have done any worse leading the Bears through this draft?  (and that's not a rhetorical question)

 
It sends mixed signals as to what you are trying to do. Pace spent the most money in free agency on a QB. Then takes a QB with the 2nd highest pick in the draft. 

Not a rhetorical question: how would you have felt if Pace took Kizer with their 2nd round pick. And for good measure took Peterman in the 4th round?
Not good but that's apples to oranges.  I don't equate giving a guy a one year FA contract to drafting multiple qbs in one draft. 

 
Step 1 - Fire the GM

Step 2 - Fire Phillips.

Step 3 - Hire someone with a proven track record of success.

Step 4 - If you can't do the first 3 steps, then copy someone who has been successful. 

Really, could I have done any worse leading the Bears through this draft?  (and that's not a rhetorical question)
I'm referring to how would you handle the qb situation 

 
Not good but that's apples to oranges.  I don't equate giving a guy a one year FA contract to drafting multiple qbs in one draft. 
No. What it says is I'm not that good at evaluating talent. So, I'm going to try the shotgun approach. Why stop at two, when you could get three?

 
I would not have signed Glennon. I would have drafted Watson or Kizer at 3. Used the other picks to take Everett, Maye, and or possibly a WR in 2nd or 3rd round.
Ok. You would draft Kizer and Watson to play right away. I like Kizer, too.  For some reason, the rest of the league didn't, though. I still don't know why.

 I'm not advocating for Trubisky. I'm just happy they identified their qb and got him.  Where we disagree is that they signed Glennon AND drafted an early round qb. I love that part. If Trubisky can have at least part of the season to sit, that only helps with his long-term success. I think it's a good strategy.  You don't agree with that approach.  If we take a player in the top 5, whether it be a qb or not, you expect them to be an immediate contributor.  I view the qb position differently, but I get what you're saying. 

As far as the rest of the draft, I agree that it's very concerning. 

 
That's what it says about Pace. 

After reading the article, you heard the shock from the 49ers that they were looking to take Trubisky. Lynch even said "why did they sign Glennon?" 
Lynch doesn't know ####. People laughed when they hired him. He didn't even know what a 5th year option was a couple weeks ago.  If Belichick came out and said it, I'd give it more thought. 

 
i think that if the Bears found a value I would have been fine with them drafting a QB. I thought Kizer at 52 was an excellent value for the Browns. He has the tools to be a top flight QB. He needs to get his head on straight and be given time to develop. If he fails the Browns only spent a mid round second on him. Much less risk involved. But if you don't find the value you wait until next year with a much better crop of QBs. 
Getting Kizer, what you consider value at 52, means nothing if he's a bust. Obviously Pace feels Trubisky will be much better. If Kizer fails, as you say, yes, Cleveland lost a mid round pick, but they still won't have a QB. Ironically, you say only a' mid round second' for Cleveland, while a couple of thirds (which Pace mostly recouped) is too much for the Bears to get the QB of their choice.

 
twistd said:
The trade was bad because you could have had the same player at 3. You bought in to the idea that teams were trying to trade up for your player and they weren't. You got screwed by bidding against yourself. John Lynch, a rookie GM, took you to the cleaners. In addition you hurt your reputation around the league. When other teams are questioning what you did it isn't good for you trying to deal with teams down the road. You have a team that has holes all over the place, but you traded away valuable draft capital, that you didn't have to trade away, for a player who would had been available at your pick. And you chose a guy who might not be better than the players chosen 10 to 13 picks later. Possibly not better than Kizer who was taken 50 picks later. That is why it is bad. 
You don't know if he would have had him at 3. That's the point. If people are calling you to trade up to 3 for Trubisky, and you turn them down because you are targeting him yourself, it's a natural conclusion that you'd think those teams would not stop and would try to deal with SF at 2. I give Pace credit, regardless of whether he's right or not, he took a chance to get his guy.

And let's say he could have gotten him at 3. He possibly would have taken the same players he did in he later rounds. If they all bust while taking Trubisky at 3, no one would be able to criticize the Trubisky pick since those two things don't have anything to do with each other. If you don't like the later picks by Pace, that's fine, but don't lump it in with the move to take Trubisky.

 
So you are saying it isn't disrespectful to ask Glennon (who is supposed to be the newly starting QB and has waited years to be in the drivers seat) to come to the draft party only for him to see his new team trade up to draft his replacement? Maybe you don't get it, but putting Glennon in that position just made him feel awkward, embarrassed, and just downright bad. 
Glennon hasn't earned anything yet. Unless you were told for certain that they weren't going to draft a QB, you should expect that the organization will do anything they think will make the team better, including drafting your competition. If he understood that, he shouldn't have been embarrassed. All he has to do is outplay Trubisky. If you can - you will start. If not, the Bears made the right move. 

 
Name a QB taken in the first 5 picks that has not started his rookie season?

This is where it doesn't make sense. If you believe Trubisky is your guy, then he should be your guy right now. If he's not ready to be your guy right now, then you don't draft him #2 overall. Project QB's are not taken with early in the first round. 
Name a QB taken in the top five that has failed. Nevermind, there are a lot. Maybe they should have sat a year to learn the ropes more and tune their craft.

 
Name a QB taken in the top five that has failed. Nevermind, there are a lot. Maybe they should have sat a year to learn the ropes more and tune their craft.
It doesn't work that way. This is why teams take DL's and CB's earlier in drafts. There is a better success rate. 

 
None of that changes the fact that the Bears asked Glennon to go to the draft party where he would be interacting with fans, and the only pick they made that day during the draft party was Glennon's replacement.  It was ####ty. They shouldn't have invited him knowing what they had planned, and Pace did not decide at the last minute to trade up to take Trubisky. 
Ok, then they'd get skewered for not inviting the leader of the team to the party. "Hey Mike, we're having a great draft party this Thursday night. Everyone who's anyone is going to be there. But, stay home, you're not invited."

 
Name a QB taken in the top five that has failed. Nevermind, there are a lot. Maybe they should have sat a year to learn the ropes more and tune their craft.
There's a a reason most of the top quarterbacks in the league came out years ago. The college offenses have changed and the rookie quarterbacks are not given time to learn and adjust to the NFL. 

 
It doesn't work that way. This is why teams take DL's and CB's earlier in drafts. There is a better success rate. 
That's the point, maybe that's the way it SHOULD work. The QB position is the most important and has a much bigger learning curve. I think most QBs bust because teams forced them to start too early. We have the luxury of having someone for a year or two while the rookie sits and learns and gets ready. And if Glennon turns out to be better than expected, it's a good problem to have.

 
Evan Silva's evaluation of the the Bears draft

Overview: The Bears’ extremely ill-advised, desperation-driven one-spot climb for Trubisky cost them pick Nos. 67, 111, and a 2018 third-rounder. At UNC, Trubisky spent two years backing up Marquise Williams, who couldn’t beat out “Joe Callahan” as a Packers camp arm last year. In round two, Chicago dropped from No. 36 to 45 to add Nos. 119, 197, and a 2018 fourth-rounder. They wasted No. 45 on D-2 Frankenstein lookalike Shaheen. Ballhawking safety Jackson was my favorite Bears pick, although Jackson enters the NFL with significant injury concerns, and moving up for him cost Chicago the No. 197 pick in exchange for just a five-spot climb. Fellow fourth-rounder Cohen is a fun guy to watch, but he has almost no chance to make an NFL offensive impact at 5-foot-7, 179. Remember Garrett Wolfe? 60% of the Bears’ draft came from sub-Division-1 schools. Ultimately, the class will pay off if Trubisky turns into a franchise quarterback. Yet there is absolutely no way 13 college starts provide enough evidence to suggest Trubisky is a good-probability bet. It’s more likely that this was the worst draft in the entire league. Grade F

 
So you are saying it isn't disrespectful to ask Glennon (who is supposed to be the newly starting QB and has waited years to be in the drivers seat) to come to the draft party only for him to see his new team trade up to draft his replacement? Maybe you don't get it, but putting Glennon in that position just made him feel awkward, embarrassed, and just downright bad. 
Tough. He signed with a rebuilding team. If he didn't think a QB was a possibility, that's his mistake. He's still the starter. He's still getting a huge opportunity to prove himself. We aren't talking about a former All-Pro.

 
Evan Silva's evaluation of the the Bears draft

Overview: The Bears’ extremely ill-advised, desperation-driven one-spot climb for Trubisky cost them pick Nos. 67, 111, and a 2018 third-rounder. At UNC, Trubisky spent two years backing up Marquise Williams, who couldn’t beat out “Joe Callahan” as a Packers camp arm last year. In round two, Chicago dropped from No. 36 to 45 to add Nos. 119, 197, and a 2018 fourth-rounder. They wasted No. 45 on D-2 Frankenstein lookalike Shaheen. Ballhawking safety Jackson was my favorite Bears pick, although Jackson enters the NFL with significant injury concerns, and moving up for him cost Chicago the No. 197 pick in exchange for just a five-spot climb. Fellow fourth-rounder Cohen is a fun guy to watch, but he has almost no chance to make an NFL offensive impact at 5-foot-7, 179. Remember Garrett Wolfe? 60% of the Bears’ draft came from sub-Division-1 schools. Ultimately, the class will pay off if Trubisky turns into a franchise quarterback. Yet there is absolutely no way 13 college starts provide enough evidence to suggest Trubisky is a good-probability bet. It’s more likely that this was the worst draft in the entire league. Grade F
NC  A&T is Division I. Evan Silvia is one of my favorite fantasy matchup analysts but he is not an opinion I would care about when talking about draft evaluations.

 
NC  A&T is Division I. Evan Silvia is one of my favorite fantasy matchup analysts but he is not an opinion I would care about when talking about draft evaluations.
Agreed. I've followed plenty of Evan's fantasy information, but his real football takes are garbage. He repeats the national narrative. 

 
Name a QB taken in the first 5 picks that has not started his rookie season?

This is where it doesn't make sense. If you believe Trubisky is your guy, then he should be your guy right now. If he's not ready to be your guy right now, then you don't draft him #2 overall. Project QB's are not taken with early in the first round. 
The Rams traded up to take Goff 1st overall with the intent to sit him for a year.  Their QB play was so terrible that they ended up starting Goff.  The Bears are basically doing the same thing this year.  If Glennon doesn't do very well then Trubisky is going to play but Glennon will start the season.

 
The Rams traded up to take Goff 1st overall with the intent to sit him for a year.  Their QB play was so terrible that they ended up starting Goff.  The Bears are basically doing the same thing this year.  If Glennon doesn't do very well then Trubisky is going to play but Glennon will start the season.
Lol. I like how you found 1 example. The point was that QBs taken early are intended to start. I know ideally everyone says the should sit and learn. Again, this is how the league has conditioned fans to think over the last decade. Maybe there is a shift in what happens starting now. 

Remember how RB's were drafted early and often, and how there was usually just one good RB on a team. Now it's RBBC. They changed the conditioning of fans. 

 
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Lol. I like how you found 1 example. The point was that QBs taken early are intended to start. I know ideally everyone says the should sit and learn. Again, this is how the league has conditioned fans to think over the last decade. Maybe there is a shift in what happens starting now. 

Remember how RB's were drafted early and often, and how there was usually just one good RB on a team. Now it's RBBC. They changed the conditioning of fans. 
You said name a QB so I did and it just happened within the year.  Not sure what more you need for an example.  We all know that the top QBs are generally drafted to start right away.  We also know that they fail more than succeed.  This is one of the reasons why I preferred taking a QB later.  Sucks having to wait to start that high of a draft pick.

 
You said name a QB so I did and it just happened within the year.  Not sure what more you need for an example.  We all know that the top QBs are generally drafted to start right away.  We also know that they fail more than succeed.  This is one of the reasons why I preferred taking a QB later.  Sucks having to wait to start that high of a draft pick.
Actually you didn't. Because he started. Teams that draft qb early, don't have a better option.

 
Actually you didn't. Because he started. Teams that draft qb early, don't have a better option.
I don't believe their intention was to start him last season though.  If he was meant to be their starter right away he would've started on day one.  The same will be for Trubisky as well.

 
NC  A&T is Division I. Evan Silvia is one of my favorite fantasy matchup analysts but he is not an opinion I would care about when talking about draft evaluations.
Interesting thing is his evaluation is not an outlier. That seems to be the consensus opinion. The Bears blew this draft badly.

 
I don't believe their intention was to start him last season though.  If he was meant to be their starter right away he would've started on day one.  The same will be for Trubisky as well.
Wouldn't Sanchez start if something happened to Glennon?

 
Interesting thing is his evaluation is not an outlier. That seems to be the consensus opinion. The Bears blew this draft badly.
That won't be determined for a few years. That's on the surface. Silvia is regurgitating some mainstream media commentary. 

The only people I care about is those that study these players at a very in-depth level. Plenty of those (PFF had Trubisky as their No. 1  and "safest QB in this draft.") had him as having all the tools. Just questioned the experience.

Kiper had Shaheen in his top 80 players overall. 

PFF had Eddie Jackson rated well above  (around 85th player I believe) where the Bears drafted him. 

Cohen does have measurables comparable to Sproles when he came out (faster 40, eight pounds lighter, less strength, seems like good instincts as a receiver from what little video I saw). A running back that can catch the ball is a need.

I guess I'm naturally an optimist but some of you guys and some of the media are off the deep end cynical. 

 
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I don't know if Trubisky is better than Watson or Kizer or Mahomes, and it seems like Pace may have overpaid to get Trubisky.  But as I think more and more about it, I'm glad the Bears made their move this year to obtain a QB for the future.  I know the 2018 draft is the QB draft, but I'm skeptical the Bears will be bad enough to get into the top 3 for one of Darnold, Allen or Rosen (count me out on Lamar Jackson).  Assuming the injury bug isn't as bad this year, a strong run game and a defense with some working pieces and competent coaching is probably going to get them to 5-11 ish, IMO.

The asking price to move up in next year's QB heavy draft will probably be drastically higher than what the Bears ended up paying to nab Trubisky.

 
The asking price to move up in next year's QB heavy draft will probably be drastically higher than what the Bears ended up paying to nab Trubisky.
Yes, the asking price to move up for a GOOD Qb will naturally higher than to move up for a mediocre QB.

 
Why is everyone so sold on how great next year's QB class is going to be?  Last year Leidner from MN was considered one of the best QBs before the season started.  The year before no one had even heard of Wentz before the season started.  A lot can change so might as well get your QB when you have the chance.

 
The Rams traded up to take Goff 1st overall with the intent to sit him for a year.  Their QB play was so terrible that they ended up starting Goff.  The Bears are basically doing the same thing this year.  If Glennon doesn't do very well then Trubisky is going to play but Glennon will start the season.
I love the smell of napalm in the morning 

 
Yes, the asking price to move up for a GOOD Qb will naturally higher than to move up for a mediocre QB.
They're all pro QB prospects, not good or mediocre QBs at this point. 

He had a great college season, making him a pretty good prospect. Obviously not elite if you're comparing college QB prospects over the years but definitely not mediocre either. 

 
They're all pro QB prospects, not good or mediocre QBs at this point. 

He had a great college season, making him a pretty good prospect. Obviously not elite if you're comparing college QB prospects over the years but definitely not mediocre either. 
I think everyone needs to keep things in prospective.  Lets not forget about all the amazing college careers that just don't transfer over to the NFL.  Scouts are looking at more than just stats otherwise Manziel would be starting and Kellen Moore would be the best QB in the NFL.

 
Interesting thing is his evaluation is not an outlier. That seems to be the consensus opinion. The Bears blew this draft badly.
Says who?  A bunch of writers and talking heads that have never worked a day in an NFL Front Office?  We won't know if they blew this draft until at least a couple years...

 
Interesting thing is his evaluation is not an outlier. That seems to be the consensus opinion. The Bears blew this draft badly.
Unless Trubisky becomes a top 10 QB and pro bowler.  If that happens no one will care about anything else that happened with the Bear's draft this year.

 
Why is everyone so sold on how great next year's QB class is going to be?  Last year Leidner from MN was considered one of the best QBs before the season started.  The year before no one had even heard of Wentz before the season started.  A lot can change so might as well get your QB when you have the chance.
It's just talk. 

 

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