Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

***Chicago Bears Thread*** Gutless franchise


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 9.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

My take: 1) Coaching hires are like draft picks, unless you arent totally off the reservation, there is no way to tell if it was a good pick until a least a couple years in. Nagy is on everybodys

Adam Schefter‏ @AdamSchefter 14m Former Jaguars’ WR Allen Robinson intends to sign with the Chicago Bears barring any last-minute snags when free agency opens Wednesday, source tells ESPN.

That is an astonishingly good trade for the Bears. 

40 minutes ago, ZWK said:

 I don't know how you can look at a depth chart led by 33-year-old Jimmy Graham and think that TE is not a need. Is anyone saying "I think we're good with Graham, Harris, Shaheen, and Horsted"? 

Right, but just because you have a problem doesnt mean you have a solution. Kmet is an inline TE that is just learning to be a pass catcher. Its one of the hardest positions to learn. He doesn't have elite speed or athleticism to lean on. The odds that he's a major contributer this season are low. He's not a bad pick, hes a bad pick at that spot, given the options available that would be big time contributors day one. In the long run he might well be pretty good. But balance that against your other positions of need you cant live without, like safety. Id rather muddle through with Graham and Horsted for a season than forcing Eddie Jackson to play out of position so Deon Bush can stumble around. Its a question of priorities, they reinforced a weakness modestly instead of reinforcing a strength massively. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to filibuster, but for me this is the perfect example of who Nagy and Pace are. Pace is tilting windmills to make up for past mistakes, Nagy is convinced he can run his high powered offense here despite all evidence. Meanwhile youve got what still could be a generational defense and a good enough offense relying on running the ball and throwing to Robinson. Egos are ruining this window. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, mbuehner said:

Right, but just because you have a problem doesnt mean you have a solution. Kmet is an inline TE that is just learning to be a pass catcher. Its one of the hardest positions to learn. He doesn't have elite speed or athleticism to lean on. The odds that he's a major contributer this season are low. He's not a bad pick, hes a bad pick at that spot, given the options available that would be big time contributors day one. In the long run he might well be pretty good. But balance that against your other positions of need you cant live without, like safety. Id rather muddle through with Graham and Horsted for a season than forcing Eddie Jackson to play out of position so Deon Bush can stumble around. Its a question of priorities, they reinforced a weakness modestly instead of reinforcing a strength massively. 

 

This is a good analysis 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Travis the Chimp said:

Trey Burton was absolutely worthless. Graham was a dumb signing. But getting the best TE in the draft when it’s obviously an important position in this guys offense is not a bad thing. For God’s sake we bring in this great offensive coach and for 2 years we haven’t seen a glimpse of it. If TE is a position he needs then give him a talented TE. And we still got a very promising corner. 
 

Today grab a couple of o lineman and a hard hitting safety and I won’t be able to complain. 

Still not addressing OL

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Every thing they have done means nothing if the offensive line doesn’t play significantly better than they did last year. There is absolutely no reason to believe they will. Pace looked at the line last year and thought they were fine.They proceeded to play poorly, particularly at RG and at the tackles. They did bring in Ifedi. He is an improvement over what Long was capable of last year, but Long was banged up and ineffective most of the year. Massie and Leno were bad. 
 

This year we have a similar situation. Pace is looking at the line and thinking things will be fine. They will not be. Leno and Massie are still bad. While Ifedi may be a bit of an improvement over Long, RG is still a weakness. The offensive line is the Achilles  heel of this team, and they have done almost nothing to address that. If you can’t open holes you can’t run the ball, and if you can’t protect, you can’t pass it. Pace just doesn’t seem to recognize that.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I look at the Bears Oline in the same way as the offense in general: its not good, but you also arent going to make it good this off season. 

Last year suffered from a devils brew of a rookie center that didn't know what he was doing and a QB that has never known what he is doing. Things did improve when Whitehair was moved back. I think the middle is gonne be decent.

Masse and Leno are mediocre... But mediocre tackles dont grow on trees either. I didnt see anybody in the second round that would be better than AT BEST a latteral move. You dont expect starting offensive tackles in the second round. 

All that together is my point- you cant fix a decade plus of blown drafts overnight. Adjust the offensive philosophy accordingly. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, twistd said:

Every thing they have done means nothing if the offensive line doesn’t play significantly better than they did last year. There is absolutely no reason to believe they will. Pace looked at the line last year and thought they were fine.They proceeded to play poorly, particularly at RG and at the tackles. They did bring in Ifedi. He is an improvement over what Long was capable of last year, but Long was banged up and ineffective most of the year. Massie and Leno were bad. 
 

This year we have a similar situation. Pace is looking at the line and thinking things will be fine. They will not be. Leno and Massie are still bad. While Ifedi may be a bit of an improvement over Long, RG is still a weakness. The offensive line is the Achilles  heel of this team, and they have done almost nothing to address that. If you can’t open holes you can’t run the ball, and if you can’t protect, you can’t pass it. Pace just doesn’t seem to recognize that.

Bingo - I have been preaching this throughout free agency. I have a feeling they will start addressing the oline in the 7th round. I hope they use both picks on oline depth. I would rather draft an O lineman in the 2nd round than Kmet. I hope Kmet proves me wrong and turns into a pro bowler but a stud O lineman is a lot more valuable to a team than an average TE.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was looking up the Bears picks and it appears that there is no information on Lachavious Simmons from Tennessee State. Looks like this was a major reach.

Arlington Hambright from Colorado sounds like a major project based on his scouting report. I don't think he will be able to help anytime soon if ever.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, pbandy1 said:

well the draft was OK. we didn't have a lot of picks to begin with. I wish we traded down from the Kmet pick and picked a guard later on. I like the CB, WR, and Edge picks.

I agree with your sentiments. I really hope Kmet turns into something but was a little disheartened when I read his scouting report where it mentioned he would struggle with separation. At least he has some size so hopefully he can win jump balls and box out well. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, yoman said:

I agree with your sentiments. I really hope Kmet turns into something but was a little disheartened when I read his scouting report where it mentioned he would struggle with separation. At least he has some size so hopefully he can win jump balls and box out well. 

I'm not a fan of his. Hopefully I am proven wrong. 

And do we have a strong safety?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, pbandy1 said:

I'm not a fan of his. Hopefully I am proven wrong. 

And do we have a strong safety?

At this point Deon Bush is replacing Haha. He hasn't played a ton but I have a feeling they might try to sign someone else unless he looked great on the practice field last season. I don't know who is still available as a free agent but I know there is still some decent talent out there. Clowney hasn't signed yet because nobody will pay him what he thinks he is worth. I doubt there is a big named safety like that out there but there are probably some players still available. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/25/2020 at 9:36 PM, yoman said:

At this point Deon Bush is replacing Haha. He hasn't played a ton but I have a feeling they might try to sign someone else unless he looked great on the practice field last season. I don't know who is still available as a free agent but I know there is still some decent talent out there. Clowney hasn't signed yet because nobody will pay him what he thinks he is worth. I doubt there is a big named safety like that out there but there are probably some players still available. 

Jefferson 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Travis the Chimp said:

Ha no way man. They’ll win 6 or 7 games. 

If Foles can play better than Trubisky last year, which seems almost impossible not to, they should win more games and challenge for the playoffs.  Had quite a few injuries and weird things happening last year, but it was mostly because the QB was awful. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Cade McEnis said:

If Foles can play better than Trubisky last year, which seems almost impossible not to, they should win more games and challenge for the playoffs.  Had quite a few injuries and weird things happening last year, but it was mostly because the QB was awful. 

O line still looks bad. I am expecting the D to be better with a healthy Hicks and an actual pass rusher opposite Mack. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Travis the Chimp said:

O line still looks bad. I am expecting the D to be better with a healthy Hicks and an actual pass rusher opposite Mack. 

I think the OL will be improved with better qb play and a different perspective with Castillo, but it does remain an issue. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there's some reason to believe the offensive line may regress to the mean and show some slight improvement this year.  Leno, Massie, Whitehar - we've all seen them play better at times.

On the other hand, the coaching staff has to commit to dealing with the reality of whatever the offensive line is.  More seven-step drops for long pass routes with only 5 blockers?  I think we all know what is going to happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like Gipson has actually played more free safety then strong in his career. Hope the bears plan to play him at strong though, we Jackson is too good to waste at SS like they did last year.

Two interesting signings with Ginn and Gipson. Look to be nice late fillers at need positions late in the off-season. Neither are great players anymore, but hopefully are good fill in's.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So Dalton signs a one year deal worth up to $7 million. Winston signs a one year deal worth less than $3 million. And Cam remains unsigned. But The Bears sign Foles to a three year $24 million contract with $21 million guaranteed. Genius.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, twistd said:

So Dalton signs a one year deal worth up to $7 million. Winston signs a one year deal worth less than $3 million. And Cam remains unsigned. But The Bears sign Foles to a three year $24 million contract with $21 million guaranteed. Genius.

So are you saying you'd rather have Winston or dalton? I wouldn't. Dalton and Winston were signed to be backups, Foles wasn't. He will be here for at least two years, so we're looking at about 8 per year. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/3/2020 at 6:52 AM, twistd said:

So Dalton signs a one year deal worth up to $7 million. Winston signs a one year deal worth less than $3 million. And Cam remains unsigned. But The Bears sign Foles to a three year $24 million contract with $21 million guaranteed. Genius.

Why exactly would it be better to have Dalton or Winston on a one year deal?  Let's assume that Mitch is the back-up this year and doesn't play.  The Bears would be entering 2021 with no quarterbacks under contract.  Is that really a desirable situation to be in?  I would think having a cost controlled QB under a team friendly contract would actually be something really desirable.

Although it should be noted that Foles has an opt-out based on unknown performance levels after 2020 and 2021.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/2/2020 at 3:20 PM, pbandy1 said:

not picking up Trubisky's 5th year option as expected

3 first round picks, 0 played their fifth year option. 2 of the three he traded picks to move up to get.

Maybe someone else needs to be in charge for next year's pick.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Tick said:

3 first round picks, 0 played their fifth year option. 2 of the three he traded picks to move up to get.

Maybe someone else needs to be in charge for next year's pick.

I don't think that's really fair. Injuries to Kevin White weren't predictable.

Floyd ended up being a very useful starter. Can you really ask for more from first round picks? Not everyone is going to pan out as a superstar.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rschroeder1 said:

I don't think that's really fair. Injuries to Kevin White weren't predictable.

Floyd ended up being a very useful starter. Can you really ask for more from first round picks? Not everyone is going to pan out as a superstar.

Out of 3 top 10 picks???  Yeah, I think you can ask for more out of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, The Tick said:

Out of 3 top 10 picks???  Yeah, I think you can ask for more out of them.

With all due respect, if the Bears were to fire Pace, I would be curious to know who should replace him that you believe would regularly draft star players in the first round.

Is there any GM in the game who actually does this?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, rschroeder1 said:

With all due respect, if the Bears were to fire Pace, I would be curious to know who should replace him that you believe would regularly draft star players in the first round.

Is there any GM in the game who actually does this?

I'm not asking him to hit on every pick, but come on, we are getting rid of draft picks at an alarming rate, and we are losing a ton of picks on his small in draft trades giving us less chances to hit.  He's taking these swings on players that he has to have that aren't working out.  You don't keep your job doing that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Tick said:

I'm not asking him to hit on every pick, but come on, we are getting rid of draft picks at an alarming rate, and we are losing a ton of picks on his small in draft trades giving us less chances to hit.  He's taking these swings on players that he has to have that aren't working out.  You don't keep your job doing that.

That's a fair argument, but I think you have to include the hits and the misses.  Pace should get credit for trading up for Eddie Jackson, for example.

He traded up for Nick Kwiatkowski in the 4th round, which turned out pretty well, I would say, and is going to possibly net a compensatory pick.

He traded up for Anthony Miller; the jury is still out, but most of what I read seems to be positive on him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, rschroeder1 said:

That's a fair argument, but I think you have to include the hits and the misses.  Pace should get credit for trading up for Eddie Jackson, for example.

He traded up for Nick Kwiatkowski in the 4th round, which turned out pretty well, I would say, and is going to possibly net a compensatory pick.

He traded up for Anthony Miller; the jury is still out, but most of what I read seems to be positive on him.

Didn't he also trade up to pick a QB with the 2nd pick in the draft 4 years ago? LOL. Not to rehash this but he obviously thought Mitch was so much better than the other QBs in that draft that he was scared about losing that pick. He got fleeced by the 49ers.

He also gave up a 4th round pick to move up to get Floyd because he thought the Giants were going to take him.

I think Pace has had some definite home runs but he has more misses in the top rounds. There remember reading that there were some rumors that teams were avoiding White because he was damaged goods before the Bears drafted him. I don't know if those rumors were ever substantiated. Does anybody else remember that? If that was true than you can place much of the blame directly on Pace. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/3/2020 at 11:12 PM, 3nOut said:

So are you saying you'd rather have Winston or dalton? I wouldn't. Dalton and Winston were signed to be backups, Foles wasn't. He will be here for at least two years, so we're looking at about 8 per year. 

Foles has been in the league for eight years. He looked good in 2018 on a magical run. Prior to that he looked like a back up QB. Last year, he looked like a back up QB. So yes, Dalton and Winston would have been better options. Dalton has been an adequate QB. He won’t carry a team but he will provide professional play at the QB position. Winston actually has upside. If you can get him to limit the interceptions, he has great tools. You could sign either to a one year contract, fairly inexpensively. I think either would have been a much better choice.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, twistd said:

Foles has been in the league for eight years. He looked good in 2018 on a magical run. Prior to that he looked like a back up QB. Last year, he looked like a back up QB. So yes, Dalton and Winston would have been better options. Dalton has been an adequate QB. He won’t carry a team but he will provide professional play at the QB position. Winston actually has upside. If you can get him to limit the interceptions, he has great tools. You could sign either to a one year contract, fairly inexpensively. I think either would have been a much better choice.

Yeah its strange to me that people see Foles as having a better track record than Winston or Dalton. If your criteria is one great postseason, I think Flacco is also looking for a team.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, yoman said:

Didn't he also trade up to pick a QB with the 2nd pick in the draft 4 years ago? LOL. Not to rehash this but he obviously thought Mitch was so much better than the other QBs in that draft that he was scared about losing that pick. He got fleeced by the 49ers.

He also gave up a 4th round pick to move up to get Floyd because he thought the Giants were going to take him.

I think Pace has had some definite home runs but he has more misses in the top rounds. There remember reading that there were some rumors that teams were avoiding White because he was damaged goods before the Bears drafted him. I don't know if those rumors were ever substantiated. Does anybody else remember that? If that was true than you can place much of the blame directly on Pace. 

All fair points.  I don't follow college football, so I can't offer anything on White and injury risk.

I don't mean to come off as a Pace defender.  But I'm just curious what team actually has a GM that fits the profile people seem to want here.  I don't have any hard data, but I would guess that most GMs have misses more than hits in the first round.

I would certainly agree that Pace has, at times, become too enamored with his guy.

The Mitch situation I attribute more to large-scale organizational problems than Pace himself.  Yes, it was his decision.  But I was struck by the Tribune article from last year on how the Chiefs and Texans engaged in their draft processes.  The Chiefs, for example, had everybody in the room - coaches, coordinators, scouts, executives - to make the decision on Mahomes.  Pace, saddled with a John Fox regime he apparently couldn't get rid of until a certain point in time, didn't involve on-the-field offensive coaches in the decision-making.

Edited by rschroeder1
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, twistd said:

Foles has been in the league for eight years. He looked good in 2018 on a magical run. Prior to that he looked like a back up QB. Last year, he looked like a back up QB. So yes, Dalton and Winston would have been better options. Dalton has been an adequate QB. He won’t carry a team but he will provide professional play at the QB position. Winston actually has upside. If you can get him to limit the interceptions, he has great tools. You could sign either to a one year contract, fairly inexpensively. I think either would have been a much better choice.

I can’t recall where I read it, but I believe Dalton had worse numbers than Trubisky last year. When was the last time Dalton had a magical run? Winston has upside, but so do Foles and Trubisky. All I want is a good competition. You say Winston and Dalton would have been better signings. For what a starter or backup? If either of them had signed do you think they’d have a chance to start over Trubisky? I’m not so sure. Foles gives the best chance for a legit competition. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, pbandy1 said:

Saints cut Larry Warford. Would be excellent pick-up for the Bears, he will get interest from a lot of teams.

Bears seem to have interest, but he'd be expensive. Who do they cut to fit him under the salary cap?

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, 3nOut said:

Bears seem to have interest, but he'd be expensive. Who do they cut to fit him under the salary cap?

not sure - but we probably can't compete $wise with some other teams with more cap space... i.e. Browns, Titans, Lions, Bengals 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...