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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Joke of a franchise


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Just now, KCitons said:

But didn't Jerry Angelo and Lovie get a lot of crap for not being able to draft a safety. Very few coaches have continued success year after year. That's why I asked, if you could change coaches with any team in the league, who would you want. 

For me, the obvious would be Belichick. But only because of record. I think he's a tool. After that, things get much more difficult. Arians has some success, but no Super Bowl rings with the Cardinals. I don't see him as being that much different than Lovie. 

Gase

Either Harbaugh 

Carroll 

Arians

Tomlin

Payton 

Of course Belichick 

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I'm not saying the league is packed with elite coaches. Not many elite qbs either.  But you have to keep trying if all you're doing is losing.  Would be amazing if Harbaugh came back to coach for the Bears but I don't see him coexisting with Pace. That leaves McDaniels, who i couldn't stand at one time, but I think he might be ready this time around. I'd love to see him coach up Trubisky for years.  The kicker would be losing Vic Fangio, who i think is almost irreplaceable.  Keeping Vic in place and Harbaugh coming in would be a dream scenario, although highly unlikely. 

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4 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Gase - why? No track record of winning as of yet

Either Harbaugh - one is not in the NFL. The other hasn't done much lately. (in fact his track record looks like Lovie's just with a few more playoff appearances)

Carroll - maybe

Arians - already mentioned.

Tomlin - Yes

Payton - another coach with 1 playoff appearance in the last 5 years.

Of course Belichick 

 

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Gase is brilliant. You could see that years ago. Was just not way of knowing it would translate to head coach. It has. He's a young star HC.  

Arians has had a ton of success in Arizona so far. Always competitive. Only missed playoffs last year. 

Payton has a long track record of success.  4 playoffs in last 7 years and a super bowl. Missing the playoffs over the last 3 years hasn't all been on him. I think his time might just be up in New Orleans. 

I can't stand Pete Carroll, but he's a hell of a football coach 

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2 hours ago, KCitons said:

Why is that? Every team/coach runs through tough stretches. 

He had to resort to hiring Mike Tice as offensive coordinator the last years, that says it all to me.  Things had been going so poorly, the talent on the team was bad, no one wanted to come work there at that point.  While part of it was a personnel decision, changes needed to be made, and sometimes once you get a new GM in place, you just need them to be able to bring in the coach they want.  Forcing a coach on the GM is rarely a good option.

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The Browns are starting Kizer Saturday instead of their overpaid lame duck QB. 

Clearly the situations aren't exactly the same, but it's a similar parallel to the Bears. 

Until you send the young guy out against the 1's with real bullets flying you won't know what you have. 

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12 hours ago, KCitons said:

So there's no hope for any coach of the Bears. If you could make any current head coach and make him the Bears head coach, who would it be?

I think Belichik is an obvious answer.  He knows what he's doing.  I was hoping they would have hired Arians instead of Trestman but the front office got cute.  Honestly, I place more blame on the ownership than anything over the years.  They just don't seem to make the best decisions for the team.  I believe they are really trying but they just are not any good at it.

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2 hours ago, Grahamburn said:

The Browns are starting Kizer Saturday instead of their overpaid lame duck QB. 

Clearly the situations aren't exactly the same, but it's a similar parallel to the Bears. 

Until you send the young guy out against the 1's with real bullets flying you won't know what you have. 

They're still trying to trade Osweiler and they already know what they have in Kessler so they might as well be starting Kizer.

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The reason not to play a young QB is that he needs to be able to protect himself.  They need to read blitzes, understand protections, know when they break down, and see pressure in the pocket.  They need to be able to step up in the pocket, be willing to throw the ball away, and slide/not take hits when out of the pocket.  Kizer has made about 4 idiotic plays putting himself in harm's way.  Exacerbating this is that many defenses don't show much of their complexity in preseason games so even if a guy looks to be handling it just fine, there needs to be confidence they can protect themselves when the more complex blitz and disguised coverages start coming in.  It's tough for QB's to show they can handle that until they are exposed to that, and the catch-22 is that until they show it the coaches are hesitant.  That's why they take their time and bring them along slowly and give them garbage time in games.

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

The reason not to play a young QB is that he needs to be able to protect himself.  They need to read blitzes, understand protections, know when they break down, and see pressure in the pocket.  They need to be able to step up in the pocket, be willing to throw the ball away, and slide/not take hits when out of the pocket.  Kizer has made about 4 idiotic plays putting himself in harm's way.  Exacerbating this is that many defenses don't show much of their complexity in preseason games so even if a guy looks to be handling it just fine, there needs to be confidence they can protect themselves when the more complex blitz and disguised coverages start coming in.  It's tough for QB's to show they can handle that until they are exposed to that, and the catch-22 is that until they show it the coaches are hesitant.  That's why they take their time and bring them along slowly and give them garbage time in games.

These are all valid points but I would like to add to that this is exacerbated by the Bears being the 3rd worst team in football last year. At least half (if not more) of the blame for that is squarely on the shoulders of the offense. They were not good and aside from the QB situation, we did not really improve on that side of the ball. I don't want to ruin our 2nd overall pick by throwing him on to the field with a very below average offense. The pieces might be there for the Bears to be an average offense this year if people stay healthy and perform but I wouldn't want to take the chance of Trubisky getting hurt/learning bad habits/regressing because he is playing with an underperforming offense on a team that is resigned to having a losing record this year.

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3 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

One of the star RBs in the game, an above average OL, and a solid defense. How good do they need to be before putting him in? 

All those pieces put up a 3-13 season last year. They underperformed for sure but as long as we have a serviceable starter in Glennon, there's no reason to throw Trubisky to the wolves unless we know the players around him are ready to give him a fighting chance. And again, we aren't trying to win this year. Looking at our team, my wildest and most positive expectations would be an 8-8 season. Let them take it slow I say

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2 hours ago, gabes1919 said:

All those pieces put up a 3-13 season last year. They underperformed for sure but as long as we have a serviceable starter in Glennon, there's no reason to throw Trubisky to the wolves unless we know the players around him are ready to give him a fighting chance. And again, we aren't trying to win this year. Looking at our team, my wildest and most positive expectations would be an 8-8 season. Let them take it slow I say

:lol: Not trying to win?  Says who?  What a terrible mindset in August. 

And this is not the same team as last year. Shouldn't we expect younger guys to take some next steps?  We've added some nice pieces. 

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I think my biggest concern right now is the wr situation. Nice depth, but will anyone be really reliable?  I think Meredith could probably be a good 2 on most teams but we might be asking too much of him right now. 

And White hasn't shown me anything to be confident about. 

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21 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

We're always trying to win or what's the point. What makes you say Glennon is serviceable?  Putting the lesser player out there is always the wrong move. 

Agreed on the last sentence.  But, throwing your rookie QB in the fire when he isn't ready yet is also not a smart move.  I want to see Trubisky play as much as the next person, but it should be the coaches and front office decision to put him on the field when he is ready, and not a second before then.  

If they cave to fan pressure to play Trubisky too early in the season before he's ready, it could derail his confidence and possibly his long term development.  

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3 hours ago, Gustavo Fring said:

Agreed on the last sentence.  But, throwing your rookie QB in the fire when he isn't ready yet is also not a smart move.  I want to see Trubisky play as much as the next person, but it should be the coaches and front office decision to put him on the field when he is ready, and not a second before then.  

If they cave to fan pressure to play Trubisky too early in the season before he's ready, it could derail his confidence and possibly his long term development.  

Of course it will be the coach decision. Who's else would it be? The confidence argument is one I can't hear anymore.  If he gives the team the best chance to win, he plays.  If his confidence is so fragile that he falls apart forever due to getting off to a rough start, he was never the guy anyway.  If you can protect him with a good OL and running game, he needs to be out there.  And it sounds like Fox has been thinking about it for a while. 

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What if Dallas had done that with Prescott, a far less touted qb prospect?   Coming off a 4-12 season. No one told them they shouldn't do it because they were coming off a bad season and had a rookie QB. 

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8 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Of course it will be the coach decision. Who's else would it be? The confidence argument is one I can't hear anymore.  If he gives the team the best chance to win, he plays.  If his confidence is so fragile that he falls apart forever due to getting off to a rough start, he was never the guy anyway.  If you can protect him with a good OL and running game, he needs to be out there.  And it sounds like Fox has been thinking about it for a while. 

Fair enough - ultimately, I just want the Bears to make the right decision for his long term prospects.  If that means playing him most of this season, I'm okay with it, as long as they don't put him in before he's ready.  

 

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1 hour ago, flapgreen said:

What if Dallas had done that with Prescott, a far less touted qb prospect?   Coming off a 4-12 season. No one told them they shouldn't do it because they were coming off a bad season and had a rookie QB. 

Who was the other option?  Kellen Moore?  Or was he hurt also?  Just trying to remember if they even had any options. 

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1 hour ago, Gustavo Fring said:

Fair enough - ultimately, I just want the Bears to make the right decision for his long term prospects.  If that means playing him most of this season, I'm okay with it, as long as they don't put him in before he's ready.  

 

From the looks of it at the moment, it's looking like he's going to be playing sooner rather than later. 

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6 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

Compared with Dallas' or the rest of the league? 

The entire league. Why does it matter? The Bears have a good OL.  If you compare the Dallas team from last preseason to the Bears in this preseason, you won't find a huge difference.  And Trubisky was a better prospect than Prescott coming in and it's not close.   The Bears have a plenty good enough OL to protect a qb and a great 1/2 punch at RB.  A solid defense to keep games close. 

Last year 

8th in sack %, 9th in TFL %, top-3 iOL 

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13 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

How many of what? 

These players 

9 hours ago, flapgreen said:

One of the star RBs in the game, an above average OL, and a solid defense. How good do they need to be before putting him in? 

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11 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Damn, you have me convinced the Bears were good last year.

They were a good qb away from being much better. My point is not that they're going to go 13-3 like Dallas did. Rarely happens.  But I think they're good enough to support a rookie QB and win some games while getting him experience. 

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9 hours ago, flapgreen said:

One of the star RBs in the game, an above average OL, and a solid defense. How good do they need to be before putting him in? 

Not sure I understand your point. The conversation was about playing Trubisky in the preseason when he wasn't ready. You said that we had all these players to offset his short comings. But, those players didn't play last week. So, would be safe and a fair representation of his abilities.

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23 minutes ago, KCitons said:

Not sure I understand your point. The conversation was about playing Trubisky in the preseason when he wasn't ready. You said that we had all these players to offset his short comings. But, those players didn't play last week. So, would be safe and a fair representation of his abilities.

Ok. I'm in different conversations here. My comparison with the Cowboys was to someone who said the Bears sucked and were 3-13 last year and we'd be throwing him to the wolves. I used Dallas as a comparison to starting a rookie QB on a team coming off a bad season.  Sorry.  I'm intertwining different conversations here. I was talking about the team being good enough to support him. 

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Just now, flapgreen said:

Ok. I'm in different conversations here. My comparison with the Cowboys was to someone who said the Bears sucked and were 3-13 last year and we'd be throwing him to the wolves. I used Dallas as a comparison to starting a rookie QB on a team coming off a bad season.  Sorry.  I'm intertwining different conversations here. I was talking about the team being good enough to support him. 

ok. carry on.

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If he gets reps with the 1s this week and in the game on Sunday, it's difficult to me to complain about much. That's what I've been yelling for.  But I'm sure I'll find something to whine about. Not to worry. 

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1 hour ago, flapgreen said:

If he gets reps with the 1s this week and in the game on Sunday, it's difficult to me to complain about much. That's what I've been yelling for.  But I'm sure I'll find something to whine about. Not to worry. 

You could start with that Ref that cost this juggernaut team the NFC title game last year

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  • flapgreen changed the title to ***Chicago Bears Thread*** Joke of a franchise

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