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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Joke of a franchise


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51 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The OL can be built up a little more but it's not an issue right now.  Their OL performed well last year and should do even better this year.   The RBs are in fine shape too.  The major issue is getting a competent QB to start and a rookie to develop for the future.  As for the WRs, it doesn't matter if the QB has time to throw if they can't catch the ball.  Last year they had WAY too many drops.

Getting rid of White may be one of the dumbest comments I've seen on here.  It's too early to move on from White yet.

I didn't see ANYONE suggest getting rid of White, that obviously won't happen.  I think all Flap said was we can't count on him for anything at this point and I 100% agree.  All we can do is HOPE he can stay healthy, still has the athletic talent he was drafted for after two season long injuries, and as he was a developmental project when we took him, that in the remaining year or two we have with him that he has the time to develop so we can decide what to do with him next.

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6 minutes ago, The Tick said:

I didn't see ANYONE suggest getting rid of White, that obviously won't happen.  I think all Flap said was we can't count on him for anything at this point and I 100% agree.  All we can do is HOPE he can stay healthy, still has the athletic talent he was drafted for after two season long injuries, and as he was a developmental project when we took him, that in the remaining year or two we have with him that he has the time to develop so we can decide what to do with him next.

You're right.  I misread it and thought it said he would replace Alshon and White but he meant replace Alshon WITH White.  This makes much more sense.

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16 hours ago, Rhythmdoctor said:

Building the line is obvious. Unfortunately this class is weak at O line. 

My guess is we get a mid/late round tackle somewhere in this draft as a project and that's about it.  There may be a couple "better" tackles available in FA, but probably few if any that will be rock solid long term starters.  I still think we really messed up last year when we pursued Massie over Schwartz.  For only a little bit more money we could have had that position locked down for 4+ years.

Does paying someone like Russell Okung 8M/season make us that much better?  If the line plays like they did towards the end of the season, I'm not sure he does.  He's been a starter on big teams, but he has is own issues.

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We can't count on Alshon either. From a business standpoint, he is the same as White. Only that White is a cheaper option that could turn into a WR1 once we fix the other issues. Like OL and QB.

It's my two cents. I would moderately invest and use multiple picks on OL until I fell ### backwards into a line that rivals the Dallas Cowboys. Name a team that has had success with a 1st or 2nd year QB and a crappy Oline. Heck, just look at Indy. Luck should have that team deep in the playoffs each year, but they give up too many sacks. Teams like Cleveland, LA, and Buffalo continue to suck with young qb's because they can't protect their young investment.

And before you respond, keep in mind this isn't just about having 5 starters. I want 5 more guys that could start for half the teams in the league sitting on our bench. Injuries are too prevalent to not build depth. 

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interesting...

Quote

The Buffalo News' Vic Carucci passes along "a lot of buzz" that the 49ers could draft Alabama ILB Reuben Foster with the No. 2 overall pick.

Carucci is one of the NFL's most well-connected beat writers, having worked for multiple teams and as a reporter for NFL.com. Even if he gets past San Francisco at No. 2, Carucci fully expects Foster to be drafted in the single digits. After watching Foster's college tape, ESPN's Louis Riddick described him as "everything I want in a run-and-hit linebacker," and "vicious" on the field. Foster, however, is presently recovering from rotator cuff surgery.

I'd love to see Foster go at #2

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1 hour ago, KCitons said:

We can't count on Alshon either. From a business standpoint, he is the same as White. Only that White is a cheaper option that could turn into a WR1 once we fix the other issues. Like OL and QB.

It's my two cents. I would moderately invest and use multiple picks on OL until I fell ### backwards into a line that rivals the Dallas Cowboys. Name a team that has had success with a 1st or 2nd year QB and a crappy Oline. Heck, just look at Indy. Luck should have that team deep in the playoffs each year, but they give up too many sacks. Teams like Cleveland, LA, and Buffalo continue to suck with young qb's because they can't protect their young investment.

And before you respond, keep in mind this isn't just about having 5 starters. I want 5 more guys that could start for half the teams in the league sitting on our bench. Injuries are too prevalent to not build depth. 

Agree with the ol part. Hawkeye, along with some others, think we're fine at ol. We most definitely are not IMO. The tackles played at an average level over the last half of the season. That doesn't mean we're fine there. Our tackles blow ###. We need 2 more.  They're none really available worth a damn in FA, so we will have to draft some. I think we can do a lot of good with the secondary in FA. If we can get Garoppolo for a second, I say we go for it. Do not give up 3rd pick for him. 

There's zero comparison between Alshon and White. That's why Alshon will get huge money and we couldn't get a 7th for White. 

Edited by flapgreen
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There's nothing wrong with wanting to improve the OL but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a good unit.  The OL was good last year and arguably has the best interior group in the league.  They re-signed Kush which is great depth in my opinion.  The tackles were the weak spot but not as bad as some make it sound.  It would be nice to improve at one of the tackle positions and add some depth.  With Grasu and Long back and everyone healthier the line should be in the top 10 if not more.  Just because I think the OL is pretty good does not mean that I don't think they should add to it or try and improve it.

Some say that Howard must have been amazing in order to run for that many yards behind that OL yet he's not near the RB Elliott is.  Then people will say the only reason Elliott did so well was because of his amazing OL.  Is it possible that Howard had a great year because his OL blocked well for him?  If not then it seems you would be trying to say that Howard was actually better than Elliott last year but... we all know that's not true.

The Bears have a lot of money this year and they need to improve drastically if some people want to keep their jobs.  Expect them to be very aggressive in FA this year and to see a much improved team talent wise.

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On 2/25/2017 at 8:42 PM, flapgreen said:

The tackles were not good. Massie and Leno are not the two guys you want on each end. The terribleness that has been on this OL for years just makes below average look like a good thing. It's not. 

You just keep posting your opinion on the OL.  Look at the facts, they were above average this year.  I know Massie and Leno are not above average OTs but they are very serviceable.  They were able to get the job done and the interior line was one of the best units in the NFL.  As a whole they were actually pretty good.  Bring a guy in that can challenge for a starting T position and add some depth and you've got yourself a top 10 OL.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

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2 hours ago, flapgreen said:

#Bears are not expected to franchise Alshon Jeffery again at > $17M, sources say. A top WR on the market will generate lots of buzz in Indy

Another sign of a failing organization if they let him walk

I don't blame management if they let him walk. Jeffrey has done almost NOTHING to lead this team. He is not a hard worker, which is a real problem, and he can't stay on the field because he is soft.

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4 minutes ago, buck naked said:

I don't blame management if they let him walk. Jeffrey has done almost NOTHING to lead this team. He is not a hard worker, which is a real problem, and he can't stay on the field because he is soft.

You don't think management ever makes a mistake. I believe you. Their record speaks for itself. 

Edited by flapgreen
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9 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

With the #Bears moving on from Cutler & Jeffrey 
1)raising ticket prices
2)sent the ascending talent letter
3) 9-23 record over last 2yrs

The ticket prices really are not an issue.  Season ticket holders are not going to give up their tickets due to a 2% increase.  It's like $5 a game or something like that.  Losing will have more of an affect on ticket prices.

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15 minutes ago, buck naked said:

I don't blame management if they let him walk. Jeffrey has done almost NOTHING to lead this team. He is not a hard worker, which is a real problem, and he can't stay on the field because he is soft.

Management is responsible for allowing the team to be in the position it's in.  I'm not saying that all these moves shouldn't have been made but when you look at what they've done in the last two years they have moved on from Marshall, Bennett, Forte, Slauson, Cutler and most likely Jeffery.  That's a lot of production just gone and did they have anyone to replace all that production?  They did manage to get lucky with Sitton and Howard so far but what about the rest?

How do you get better by getting rid of your best offensive players without having other players to replace their production?

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If the report is true, I'm glad we are not franchising him again, I just didn't see that as an acceptable solution.  I'm still disappointed we haven't been able to work with him to find a way to get a long term deal to keep him in Chicago, but I have no idea where to place blame.  If there bears were offering <10M/year or something like that, maybe it's on them, if Jeffery and his team were holding strong at making him the highest paid receiver, well maybe it's on his side.

The key is I think he was a talented offensive player, and as Hawk said, you don't get better by losing talented players as Pace has been doing the last couple years.  WR is now a top 3 hole on the team that they will need to figure out how to fill.

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59 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

When looking at what next year's WR group will look like will either make you depressed or excite you with it's potential.  All depends on how you look at things.  On paper it's going to look like the worst WR group in the NFL though.

I think most Bears fans always being sold on potential every year are just over it. Anything Pace or George says is just disingenuous at this point. 

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59 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

When looking at what next year's WR group will look like will either make you depressed or excite you with it's potential.  All depends on how you look at things.  On paper it's going to look like the worst WR group in the NFL though.

I think most Bears fans always being sold on potential every year are just over it. Anything Pace or George says is just disingenuous at this point. 

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1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Basically QB and WR are now absolute needs.  TE is a lower priority need.  The RB position is the only solid spot on the offense with the OL being the next best unit.

I'd put TE right up there with the rest. Can't depend on Miller. Basically, we need a bunch of stuff. 

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Just now, flapgreen said:

I think most Bears fans always being sold on potential every year are just over it. Anything Pace or George says is just disingenuous at this point. 

I still believe Pace though.  Pace's job depends on it.  George can say whatever because it doesn't affect his future.

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28 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

TE is below QB, WR, CB, S and DE for sure.

Not sure I'd agree with this.  A true complete TE can have a large effect on the pass game being both a target and blocker and in the run game as a blocker at the line.  Can really make a difference.  This is supposedly one of the better years for TE in the draft and I was honestly hoping we'd be able to spend our 2nd round pick on one and hopefully have that 8+ year player there we haven't had in a long time.

While they are all NEEDS, I think I'd rank QB, S, TE, WR, CB, DE.  Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the versatility of a true stating TE can be pretty valuable.

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Just now, The Tick said:

Not sure I'd agree with this.  A true complete TE can have a large effect on the pass game being both a target and blocker and in the run game as a blocker at the line.  Can really make a difference.  This is supposedly one of the better years for TE in the draft and I was honestly hoping we'd be able to spend our 2nd round pick on one and hopefully have that 8+ year player there we haven't had in a long time.

While they are all NEEDS, I think I'd rank QB, S, TE, WR, CB, DE.  Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the versatility of a true stating TE can be pretty valuable.

I would love getting a difference making TE in the draft this year but I haven't heard much to make me think they are going to do it.  Every mock draft and comments from Bears reporters make it look like TE is a lower priority this year.  Not saying I agree with it but I'm not sure they make any major moves at that position this off season.

Jack Doyle could be an option for them.

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1 minute ago, The Tick said:

Not sure I'd agree with this.  A true complete TE can have a large effect on the pass game being both a target and blocker and in the run game as a blocker at the line.  Can really make a difference.  This is supposedly one of the better years for TE in the draft and I was honestly hoping we'd be able to spend our 2nd round pick on one and hopefully have that 8+ year player there we haven't had in a long time.

While they are all NEEDS, I think I'd rank QB, S, TE, WR, CB, DE.  Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the versatility of a true stating TE can be pretty valuable.

And I'll admit I have NO f-ing good idea on how to deal with QB... I don't like any of the options, drafting one at the #3 pick, trading that #3 pick to draft one later or for a player, none of the FA's out there look like the "answer" to me.

I think the only option I kinda like, though it may not make us much better next year is to just grab one of the FA available vets, and try to draft a mid round value pick.  But admittedly that could result in the same crap ### team we've had the last couple years.  Or maybe take a shot on trading a mid-draft pick for one of the backups that isn't Garapolo.

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16 minutes ago, flapgreen said:

Updated list of targets. List is dwindling fast and the Bears with all that cap space 

I'd say go hard at Jefferson and Bouye/Gilmore.

Gotta target a WR now, but I don't have an opinion on which one.

Take a look at what Campbell wants at DE.

See if any of the older NT's would come at a decent price for 2 or 3 years as a backup to Goldman.

And somehow find a QB in there...

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44 minutes ago, The Tick said:

Not sure I'd agree with this.  A true complete TE can have a large effect on the pass game being both a target and blocker and in the run game as a blocker at the line.  Can really make a difference.  This is supposedly one of the better years for TE in the draft and I was honestly hoping we'd be able to spend our 2nd round pick on one and hopefully have that 8+ year player there we haven't had in a long time.

While they are all NEEDS, I think I'd rank QB, S, TE, WR, CB, DE.  Maybe I'm crazy, but I think the versatility of a true stating TE can be pretty valuable.

TE is right up there with the top needs. Don't expect Bears to recognize this, though. 

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25 minutes ago, maxwelledison said:

It's the right move. WRs don't win championships and Alshon hasn't been able to stay on the field. No brainer. 

 

Edit: correct typo

So if a big name safety is headed to free agency from a team with a lot of cap space, the team shouldn't keep them because safeties don't win championships? That's not an argument to let the most talented player on your team walk when you're way under the cap. 

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1 hour ago, flapgreen said:

So if a big name safety is headed to free agency from a team with a lot of cap space, the team shouldn't keep them because safeties don't win championships? That's not an argument to let the most talented player on your team walk when you're way under the cap. 

That's correct. And safeties do help win championships, so yeah. 

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If #Bears let Jeffery and Cutler go, that would mean they've subtracted Cutler, Jeffery, Forte, Marshall & Bennett since Pace/Fox arrived.

Heck of a way to build a team and instill confidence in your fans, not that they care anything about the fans anyway.  There's no justifying all of these moves. Pace has completely dismantled the team, gotten rid of all of the best players,  and done little to replace them.  Only Howard as replacement and got lucky there.  Outside of hitting on a couple players in the draft last year, he's done nothing else to show he can build a winning team. So regular Bears stuff. 

Edited by flapgreen
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FA market shrinking and a lot of bad teams with a lot of cap space. Good luck, Pace. Won't overpay for Alshon but you're going to overpay for some midcarder?   Great plan there.  Other teams draft talent and keep them. You let the only talent on a sinking ship franchise walk out the door. Your team has a lot of cap space because there's no one on the roster worth paying!!! Gbbhhhhhnjkksd 

Edited by flapgreen
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  • flapgreen changed the title to ***Chicago Bears Thread*** Joke of a franchise

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