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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Poles is playing 5D chess! (17 Viewers)

But barring a SB victory this year, calling my shot now. I want one of the NE assistants for 2018. 
I'm not so sure about the D coordinator as a head coach yet.  You see him getting off the plane from the superbowl with the Goodell clown shirt, and I think there were some other instances, don't remember specifics where it makes me question if he is ready for a head coaching position.  Not that I don't agree with the shirt, or find it funny, I'm just not sure if that is the guy I see ready to be the leader and provide direction for a team.  Seems to be a hell of a coach, but not everyone is ready for the top position.

McDaniels on the other hand could be ready for a second shot as a HC and could be interesting.

 
Bears released Tracy Porter.

Don't feel comfortable taking Lattimore at #3 with his medical issues.

Just trade down.
Another Pace move I just don't get...  He was our most consistent player in our secondary last year, knows the defense, I don't see how all of the guys we are bringing in will be better than Porter.  If it was a money thing, there are more guys on this roster wasting more money then he was.  At least he was on the field and playing above average most of the time.  Not that I think this move makes or breaks out team, just don't see how it makes sense.  The CB's he's brought in don't look that impressive.

 
Oh of course. But no position has a bigger impact than QB so that should always be priority number 1, which it never is with us. 

I happen to think our D should be pretty good this year. So it's definitely tempting to add another, potentially elite, player to it. But I happen to think Watson is going to be a winner in this league. It's an extremely hard decision, which means I probably won't ##### about what happens. Until mid season at least  :P
No player at any position can be an impact player if they're not on the field.  That's my biggest concern this year considering taking a QB with that first pick.  Usually the best players in the draft are good enough to play right away, including QBs.  If they aren't good enough to start right away then are they really worth that high of a pick or do you just take that QB since he won't be available with your next pick?  That's the dilemma.

 
Another Pace move I just don't get...  He was our most consistent player in our secondary last year, knows the defense, I don't see how all of the guys we are bringing in will be better than Porter.  If it was a money thing, there are more guys on this roster wasting more money then he was.  At least he was on the field and playing above average most of the time.  Not that I think this move makes or breaks out team, just don't see how it makes sense.  The CB's he's brought in don't look that impressive.
I'm not sure about it either but I do have one way to think about it where it makes sense.  First of all Porter was not considered that great of an add originally but he played some of his best ball with the Bears.  Second is his age and now they have a ton of other guys to try out.  If Porter was able to come in as an unknown and do well why can't one of these new guys do the same thing but at a younger age?  Just something to consider.

 
I'm not so sure about the D coordinator as a head coach yet.  You see him getting off the plane from the superbowl with the Goodell clown shirt, and I think there were some other instances, don't remember specifics where it makes me question if he is ready for a head coaching position.  Not that I don't agree with the shirt, or find it funny, I'm just not sure if that is the guy I see ready to be the leader and provide direction for a team.  Seems to be a hell of a coach, but not everyone is ready for the top position.
Guys a rocket scientist

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-matt-patricia-defensive-coordinator-bill-belichick-112916

 
No player at any position can be an impact player if they're not on the field.  That's my biggest concern this year considering taking a QB with that first pick.  Usually the best players in the draft are good enough to play right away, including QBs.  If they aren't good enough to start right away then are they really worth that high of a pick or do you just take that QB since he won't be available with your next pick?  That's the dilemma.
Building for the future. The Bears still won't be very good this year. Won't matter who's on the field.  The good franchises are always building toward the future. 

 
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Building for the future. The Bears still won't be very good this year. Won't matter who's on the field.  The good franchises are always building toward the future. 
Every player they draft should be planning for the future.  What team drafts players based on winning now?  FA players are usually the ones signed to win now, not rookies.

 
Every player they draft should be planning for the future.  What team drafts players based on winning now?  FA players are usually the ones signed to win now, not rookies.
A team whose GM and HC are on the hot seat. Taking a QB 3rd overall won't help you this year because you just signed a FA QB. They will target someone who can help them keep heir jobs. They won't go QB in the first unless they have some kind of assurance from atop that they won't be fired regardless of what happens this year. 

 
Every player they draft should be planning for the future.  What team drafts players based on winning now?  FA players are usually the ones signed to win now, not rookies.
Agreed. Your post sounded like you were concerned a qb wouldn't contribute right away 

 
A team whose GM and HC are on the hot seat. Taking a QB 3rd overall won't help you this year because you just signed a FA QB. They will target someone who can help them keep heir jobs. They won't go QB in the first unless they have some kind of assurance from atop that they won't be fired regardless of what happens this year. 
I hope Pace drafts players based on what's best for the team and not saving Fox's job.  I'd argue Pace is more likely to lose his job if he doesn't draft a qb in his first 3 years and Glennon flops or is just average. 

 
flapgreen said:
Agreed. Your post sounded like you were concerned a qb wouldn't contribute right away 
I'm not concerned, I know a rookie QB has very low odds of contributing right away.  Drafting a QB this year would be an investment and my biggest concern is using the 3rd overall pick on a player that isn't meant to play for a year or two.  If that QB turns into the next Aaron Rodgers then it's totally worth it but there's also that chance that he ends up sucking or never even sees the field because he can't beat out Glennon.  Now that would be a wasted pick.  Almost any other position drafted with the third pick is going to start in his first year and he may be a difference maker or he may such but he will be on the field.  This is what makes taking a QB with the 3rd pick so risky this year.

Fox is really on the hot seat so I don't see him wanting to take a QB early.  I think Pace gets a couple years yet and he can risk taking a QB so I wouldn't be surprised if he strongly considers taking one.  This year may be the most conflicted I've been with the Bear's draft.

 
These days, most QBs are taken in the top 10. That's the nature of the position now.  The risk is always there.  Very little chance of success not taking a qb in top 10 now. 

 
These days, most QBs are taken in the top 10. That's the nature of the position now.  The risk is always there.  Very little chance of success not taking a qb in top 10 now. 
Oh, I agree but most times those QBs are expected to contribute their rookie year.  I'm not saying it's a bad move but it's just something to remember.

Here's something to think about.  This will be their third year with a top 10 pick.  Of the last two picks on did not play at all his rookie year and then only a few games his second year.  The other was not meant to be and every day starter but played more due to injuries.  Now with their third top ten pick it's possible they take a QB and once again he does not play in his rookie year.  There are also no guarantees he would even be good enough to play in his second year.

Doesn't that seem like a strange way to make a team better when most other teams are using their first picks on players that make an immediate impact their first year.  Just something to keep in mind.

 
U just see it different with the qb.  White was drafted to play right away but just two freak injuries prevented it. Floyd was probably their second or third best defensive player last year and was in the running for defensive rookie of the year until the end. He was really one of the more productive rookies drafted last year.  But even if neither had not been productive, taking a qb this year shouldn't be influenced by that.  Regardless of how well White has played had he stayed healthy, the Bears would've still been bad, much of that related to the qb position. It's everything.  If you don't have a qb, you don't have anything.  Look at our defense over the last 10 years or longer.  Some all time great defensive players. Always had a too notch defense.  How much success did they have as a team? Very little.  It's because the offense was always terrible.  

As was stated earlier though, it won't matter without good coaching and an organization that builds around and supports the qb position.  To date, the offense has been pathetic.  It maybe even worse this year.  We have Jordan Howard and pretty much nothing else, except for a solid interior line. 

Pace has had two years in a row to draft a qb and didn't do it.  Now, going into his third year, the position is below average at best and still no qb of the futures.  It may end up costing him his job. 

 
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U just see it different with the qb.  White was drafted to play right away but just two freak injuries prevented it. Floyd was probably their second or third best defensive player last year and was in the running for defensive rookie of the year until the end. He was really one of the more productive rookies drafted last year.  But even if neither had not been productive, taking a qb this year shouldn't be influenced by that.  Regardless of how well White has played had he stayed healthy, the Bears would've still been bad, much of that related to the qb position. It's everything.  If you don't have a qb, you don't have anything.  Look at our defense over the last 10 years or longer.  Some all time great defensive players. Always had a too notch defense.  How much success did they have as a team? Very little.  It's because the offense was always terrible.  

As was stated earlier though, it won't matter without good coaching and an organization that builds around and supports the qb position.  To date, the offense has been pathetic.  It maybe even worse this year.  We have Jordan Howard and pretty much nothing else, except for a solid interior line. 

Pace has had two years in a row to draft a qb and didn't do it.  Now, going into his third year, the position is below average at best and still no qb of the futures.  It may end up costing him his job. 
But Floyd was not drafted to be a difference maker his rookie year.  Many Bear's fans disliked the Floyd pick because they thought he was a reach.  The Bears said they planned to ease him in and use him as a rotational player.  He only played as much as he did due to injuries.  He ended up playing better than many expected so that was a big plus for Pace.

My point is that the Bears had 2 top 10 picks and now will have a 3rd.  Their first pick was meant to be a difference maker in year one but he got hurt and hasn't played, not the team's fault.  Their second pick was meant to be a rotational player and didn't plan on him being a huge impact player his rookie year.  Now this third straight year in the top 10 they may take another player who may not contribute in his first year.  I just find it odd that a team would take a player that high that they don't plan to start, in back to back years after missing on White who didn't start his rookie year.  

I know most may not get my point since Floyd turned into a great pick so far but he wasn't drafted to be that guy so quickly originally.

 
Notre Dame QB DeShone Kizer worked out for the Bears at Halas Hall today. Chicago allowed to do it, b/c Kizer counts as a "local" prospect.

Bears have done way more work with Kizer than any other prospect. 

 
Mayock had Kizer #1 all offseason until 2 weeks from draft.  Now has him #4.  Lost all credibility with me 
I think he was projecting Kizer more as the highest upside pick, but Mayock is a very credible source IMO. Good eye for tape like any other scout and very in tune with all NFL teams and owners.

 
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I think he was projecting Kizer more as the highest upside pick, but Mayock is a very credible source IMO. Good eye for tape like any other scout and very in tune with all NFL teams and owners.
Wait, now.  He was projecting Kizer as highest upside pick in his rankings but didn't drop him until 2 weeks before draft from #1 to #4?  That doesn't make any sense.  If he had a good eye for tape and there haven't been any games played, how would he drop him 4 spots at the last minute? Did he just now get around to watching Kizer's game tap over the last 2 years? I highly doubt that.  You can say Mayock is credible and that's fine, but this particular movement makes me question all of his credibility in his rankings.  Just moves guys around for no good reason.  It's right in front of us.  It doesn't mean Mayock doesn't know anything.  It means his rankings are pretty meaningless.  He's not above reproach and there's no reason to just blindly believe everything he says.  He's in this to make money like the rest of these turds. 

 
flapgreen said:
These days, most QBs are taken in the top 10. That's the nature of the position now.  The risk is always there.  Very little chance of success not taking a qb in top 10 now. 
OK Flap, which QB do you want most? Any of them? And don't say that Pace is the expert and not you. Give me YOUR opinion. You say at least one of the top four QBs will be successful in the NFL. Which one? Your current argument is a win-win-win for you. If they don't select a QB at 3, you will bash them. If they select one that busts, you'll bash them for taking the wrong one. If they pick one that actually does become successful, you'll say I told you so. You're just setting yourself up to continue criticizing them no matter what they do.

Take a stance already and tell us who you want.

 
flapgreen said:
Wait, now.  He was projecting Kizer as highest upside pick in his rankings but didn't drop him until 2 weeks before draft from #1 to #4?  That doesn't make any sense.  If he had a good eye for tape and there haven't been any games played, how would he drop him 4 spots at the last minute? Did he just now get around to watching Kizer's game tap over the last 2 years? I highly doubt that.  You can say Mayock is credible and that's fine, but this particular movement makes me question all of his credibility in his rankings.  Just moves guys around for no good reason.  It's right in front of us.  It doesn't mean Mayock doesn't know anything.  It means his rankings are pretty meaningless.  He's not above reproach and there's no reason to just blindly believe everything he says.  He's in this to make money like the rest of these turds. 
You are right that most of these guys are doing rankings for money.

Another explanation for the drop though could be that they are all very closely ranked and things like the combine, pro-days, private interviews and workouts could bump him down three spots but that is not necessarily a huge drop.

 
OK Flap, which QB do you want most? Any of them? And don't say that Pace is the expert and not you. Give me YOUR opinion. You say at least one of the top four QBs will be successful in the NFL. Which one? Your current argument is a win-win-win for you. If they don't select a QB at 3, you will bash them. If they select one that busts, you'll bash them for taking the wrong one. If they pick one that actually does become successful, you'll say I told you so. You're just setting yourself up to continue criticizing them no matter what they do.

Take a stance already and tell us who you want.
Can't say I like the tone of your post, so I don't think I'll go into that with you.  I'm just giving my opinion.  I'm no football expert.  I enjoy discussing it with people who have an opposing view.    Maybe I'm outspoken on a message board. Doesn't amount to much.   I'm not legitimately angry with anyone or think my opinion is somehow superior to theirs.  I've been wrong plenty of times on here and usually speak up and say so.  I was far off on Floyd.  I'm glad he proved me wrong.  Grow some thicker bark. 

I've went through which qbs I like multiple times throughout the thread.  Honestly, I don't think that's what you're looking for from me anyway. 

 
You are right that most of these guys are doing rankings for money.

Another explanation for the drop though could be that they are all very closely ranked and things like the combine, pro-days, private interviews and workouts could bump him down three spots but that is not necessarily a huge drop.
Moving a guy from 1 to 4 two weeks out from draft when you've had him at 1 all along us a very significant move.  Pro-days and combine are over.  I don't see Mayock getting some brand new information at the last minute that changes his view he's had in Kizer for months.  I think it's just him moving a guy because of a few things we're all hearing in the media. Pretty lame if you ask me.  We'll see what GMs really think in 2 weeks 

 
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New Walterfootball.com mock has Hooker in the first and Watson in the second. What a (pipe) dream that would be. 

 
New Walterfootball.com mock has Hooker in the first and Watson in the second. What a (pipe) dream that would be. 
I'd be 100% happy with Hooker and Kizer. Frankly, I'd prefer Kizer to Watson anyway. One would hope with how aggressively they pursued Glennon, that QB isn't actually a need. Hooker/Thomas and Garcia would be a great 1-2 in my opinion as well.

 
DB class is ridiculously deep. Would be terrible value to take one at 3, not even counting how bad the value would be on any year. 

 
There will come a time where a lot of people will be proven wrong on this qb class being week 
I know you're a fan of Watson (I disagree- he is behind David Webb for me. I will say he is the most ready to start day 1 though), but who else do you think is strong in this class?

I happen to like Trubisky and think he is the top QB in this class. He needs time and is raw; needs the right scenario, but has the best upside IMO.

Outside of that... I don't see Kizer as a dominant QB. He might be a Ryan Tannehill kind of player. Mahomes I do like, I think he has potential as well

So, IMO, 2 maybe 3 (if I give you Watson) solid QBs to come out of this class. How many are likely to end up eventually as pro bowlers? Maybe 2 if I give you Watson? Kind of hard to say at this point I know. 

Is that enough to prove those who are categorizing this class as "weak" wrong? I disagree. If this were a strong class you'd see 3-4 capable starting QBs emerge. I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong. What I will agree with you on is that a lot of people are under-valuing this draft class and I think some QBs may fall too far as a result. I'm not sure we will look back on this draft as a strong class however. 

 
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The term 'weak' is probably not an accurate description for this QB class.  I'd say this QB class is less certain.  For me, do I want the Bears to find a QB?  Fo sho.  I just don't see any of the top 4 being 'certain' enough to burn the 1.03 on.  I'd much rather take Chad Kelly, who I believe is the best QB in this draft, at a huge discount.  At this point, Kelly can probably be had in the 4th round or later.  Why not stack other needed positions in this less certain QB class and take the 'best' QB of the class in round 4?  That's what I would do if I were the Bears.  Flapgreen, saying that 1 of the 4 will be starting material is not good enough.  That's a guess that has historical data on your side.  It would be more shocking to say none of these QBs will be startable in 5 years.  Of course there's an extremely high probability of one of the top 4 drafted QBs to be a good NFL starter.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
The term 'weak' is probably not an accurate description for this QB class.  I'd say this QB class is less certain.  For me, do I want the Bears to find a QB?  Fo sho.  I just don't see any of the top 4 being 'certain' enough to burn the 1.03 on.  I'd much rather take Chad Kelly, who I believe is the best QB in this draft, at a huge discount.  At this point, Kelly can probably be had in the 4th round or later.  Why not stack other needed positions in this less certain QB class and take the 'best' QB of the class in round 4?  That's what I would do if I were the Bears.  Flapgreen, saying that 1 of the 4 will be starting material is not good enough.  That's a guess that has historical data on your side.  It would be more shocking to say none of these QBs will be startable in 5 years.  Of course there's an extremely high probability of one of the top 4 drafted QBs to be a good NFL starter.
Not good enough, eh? I never said that's the only reason you take one. You're twisting what I said.  What information do you have that shows Kelly is the best QB in the class?  If he was potentially the best, why would he go in round 4 or later? 

I'm not sure what you mean by "less certain."  Look back at previous drafts and evaluate every guy taken in the top 10 and tell me how certain those were.  It's very simple.  The Bears have a top 3 pick and shot at maybe the first QB taken.  For those thinking they should wait until next year, do you think they'll have another top 3 pick? Because that's what it will take to get one of the top qbs.  If they do, then these team has more problems than anyone imagined. 

 
I hope our GM isn't hoping for a top 3 pick again next year to get his qb, or counting on turning a late round pick into a franchise qb.  This is his year to take a qb, especially since he said 2 years ago that you could take a qb in every draft.  If he doesn't this time, he's either a liar or doesn't trust his own strategy. 

 
I hope our GM isn't hoping for a top 3 pick again next year to get his qb, or counting on turning a late round pick into a franchise qb.  This is his year to take a qb, especially since he said 2 years ago that you could take a qb in every draft.  If he doesn't this time, he's either a liar or doesn't trust his own strategy. 
I think they're taking a QB for sure this year, I'm just not certain it will be with the 3rd overall pick.

 
I think they're taking a QB for sure this year, I'm just not certain it will be with the 3rd overall pick.
They should not take a QB with the #3 overall - that is why I would support a trade down.    Grab a later top 10 or teens pick plus some additional (2nd and /or 3rd rounds) allows the Bears to still draft QB as well as top flight DB's and either a WR or TE.

 
They should not take a QB with the #3 overall - that is why I would support a trade down.    Grab a later top 10 or teens pick plus some additional (2nd and /or 3rd rounds) allows the Bears to still draft QB as well as top flight DB's and either a WR or TE.
Where do you think they should draft a qb? 

 
He's trying to get people to follow him like the rest of the "analysts."  Not falling for it.  Dropping qbs 2 weeks from draft when absolutely nothing has happened is embarrassing. 
I think he gathers a lot of rumor during the draft process and the later rankings may be based more on what he is hearing that what his personal opinion is.

When he dropped Teddy Bridgewater after his pro day, he said that just seeing he player in person changes things for him. 

I think the pressure of group think and all the negative stuff he heard caused him to change his mind about Bridgewater. The same may be true for him with Kizer.

So if you look at it that way, the earlier ranking is based on what he saw on the field. The later ranking is based on what he has heard.

Mayock is also the main source I know of who said he heard Jay Ajayi's knee was bone on bone. No one else said this that I am aware of.

I might be going too easy on him. I don't think he presents the later rankings as being based on what he has heard. That is just kind of the way I see it being.

 
Not being facetious. If they don't take a qb early this year with the 3rd pick, I'm open to hearing a better alternative. 

 

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