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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Poles is playing 5D chess! (20 Viewers)

Biabreakable said:
I think he gathers a lot of rumor during the draft process and the later rankings may be based more on what he is hearing that what his personal opinion is.

When he dropped Teddy Bridgewater after his pro day, he said that just seeing he player in person changes things for him. 

I think the pressure of group think and all the negative stuff he heard caused him to change his mind about Bridgewater. The same may be true for him with Kizer.

So if you look at it that way, the earlier ranking is based on what he saw on the field. The later ranking is based on what he has heard.

Mayock is also the main source I know of who said he heard Jay Ajayi's knee was bone on bone. No one else said this that I am aware of.

I might be going too easy on him. I don't think he presents the later rankings as being based on what he has heard. That is just kind of the way I see it being.
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You nailed it with the first part.  If he's so good at evaluating and they're his rankings, why would he change them based on rumors? He's not doing mock drafts. 

 
Cardinals QB Bruce Arians said there are 5 or 6 starting quarterbacks in this year's draft. He again called this year's QB class one of the best class or arms he's seen

I'd say Bruce knows a little. 

 
If you see a guy you think can be a franchise qb, you take him with your first opportunity. You don't trade down and hope he falls to you or hope another guy falls to you in the second or third round for better value. Qb is everything. If Pace has his guy at 3, take him no matter what.   Kizer, Watson, Mahomes. If he thinks one of these guys could be it, he has to give it a shot or end up unemployed. 

 
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Biggest issue is all of these guys will need a good coach and coordinator behind them to excel. The Bears have none of that. 

 
flapgreen said:
If you see a guy you think can be a franchise qb, you take him with your first opportunity. You don't trade down and hope he falls to you or hope another guy falls to you in the second or third round for better value. Qb is everything. If Pace has his guy at 3, take him no matter what.   Kizer, Watson, Mahomes. If he thinks one of these guys could be it, he has to give it a shot or end up unemployed. 
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What should they do if they have two that think are close? Why not trade down, get a pick or two and still get the other (if they think they can get him later). Don't think it would happen, but I think I'd be ok with them trading the #3 for the Browns first and an additional pick or two. Browns get Garrett and the QB of their choice and we get our plan a or play be QB plus more.

 
3nOut said:
What should they do if they have two that think are close? Why not trade down, get a pick or two and still get the other (if they think they can get him later). Don't think it would happen, but I think I'd be ok with them trading the #3 for the Browns first and an additional pick or two. Browns get Garrett and the QB of their choice and we get our plan a or play be QB plus more.
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Thing is that is too much of a gamble, especially with all the quarterbacks that may retire soon  (Palmer, Brees, Big Ben, maybe the Skins aren't sold on Cousins).

 
flapgreen said:
Where do you think they should draft a qb? 
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I would love if one of the top 4 QBs dropped to them in the second round.  If that doesn't work then probably the third or fourth round.  Obviously their odds of getting a franchise QB go down the longer they wait but I honestly don't think they are getting their future, franchise QB in this year's draft.  I hope I'm wrong though.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I would love if one of the top 4 QBs dropped to them in the second round.  If that doesn't work then probably the third or fourth round.  Obviously their odds of getting a franchise QB go down the longer they wait but I honestly don't think they are getting their future, franchise QB in this year's draft.  I hope I'm wrong though.
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OK. I'll ask another question. If they do take one in the 3rd or 4th this year, should they take another one early next year? 

 
3nOut said:
What should they do if they have two that think are close? Why not trade down, get a pick or two and still get the other (if they think they can get him later). Don't think it would happen, but I think I'd be ok with them trading the #3 for the Browns first and an additional pick or two. Browns get Garrett and the QB of their choice and we get our plan a or play be QB plus more.
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It's risky.  Someone else could trade right back ahead of them and they could miss both guys they think are franchise guys. I don't know.  So much variance. If their top guy is available at 3 and they think he has potential to be the franchise qb, I don't think you can **** around and hope someone falls. 

 
There's no Joey Bosa or Jalen Ramsey sitting there at 3 this year.  If they don't take a qb at 3, they better figure out a way to trade back. 

 
flapgreen said:
OK. I'll ask another question. If they do take one in the 3rd or 4th this year, should they take another one early next year? 
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I think you look for a franchise level QB every draft and if you feel one is there when you pick you take him unless you already have one in his prime.  If they feel one of the QB's coming out this year is really one of those guys, sure take him.  (I'm not sure I think any of them are, but I'm just an idiot on a message board and I'm telling myself not to get to worked up if they take a guy I don't think will work)  If a guy they think is a franchise level qb is there when they pick next year, you take him almost regardless of what you do with QB this year.

 
The Tick said:
I think you look for a franchise level QB every draft and if you feel one is there when you pick you take him unless you already have one in his prime.  If they feel one of the QB's coming out this year is really one of those guys, sure take him.  (I'm not sure I think any of them are, but I'm just an idiot on a message board and I'm telling myself not to get to worked up if they take a guy I don't think will work)  If a guy they think is a franchise level qb is there when they pick next year, you take him almost regardless of what you do with QB this year.
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That's similar to what Pace said in his first press conference. Unfortunately, he hasn't done what he's said many times. 

 
flapgreen said:
That's similar to what Pace said in his first press conference. Unfortunately, he hasn't done what he's said many times. 
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yeah, I think he said something along the lines of I'd like to or you could take a QB every year. Obviously he hasn't done it, and yeah, it seems pretty stupid.

I don't think pace has passed up any obvious franchise QB options, no one really saw dak coming if he gets to that point.

but yeah, stupid that we haven't drafted any guys in the last two years to take a look at.

 
flapgreen said:
OK. I'll ask another question. If they do take one in the 3rd or 4th this year, should they take another one early next year? 
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If they feel like their franchise QB is there for them, then yes.  If for some reason the guy they draft this year isn't who they thought he was and they get another high draft pick then I think they would draft a QB high next year.  This would be if Glennon doesn't impress them as a long term QB as well.

I'm not sure you can plan this year's draft around next year's.  There are just too many things that can happen in the next year so you need to just draft the best players for your team this year.  Then you can figure it all out again next year.

 
The Tick said:
yeah, I think he said something along the lines of I'd like to or you could take a QB every year. Obviously he hasn't done it, and yeah, it seems pretty stupid.

I don't think pace has passed up any obvious franchise QB options, no one really saw dak coming if he gets to that point.

but yeah, stupid that we haven't drafted any guys in the last two years to take a look at.
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I think the fact they haven't taken a QB yet just goes to show hoe void of talent the team was.  Maybe he felt the other positions needed to get filled before they started taking shots at QB.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I think the fact they haven't taken a QB yet just goes to show hoe void of talent the team was.  Maybe he felt the other positions needed to get filled before they started taking shots at QB.
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That excuse doesn't work for me.  We have known for years that QB was in trouble, I can understand not overreaching for one, but there were 4th round guys we should have at least brought into the system, we had enough picks.  Regardless we'll see what he does this year.

 
The Tick said:
That excuse doesn't work for me.  We have known for years that QB was in trouble, I can understand not overreaching for one, but there were 4th round guys we should have at least brought into the system, we had enough picks.  Regardless we'll see what he does this year.
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You may be right.  Was just a theory.

 
Not knowing what you know now about Daq, how would you guys compare last year's QB class to this year's?  It's something to think about when you keep hearing wait until next year when there's a better crop.  How many years do you wait and what exactly are you waiting on? 

 
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flapgreen said:
Not knowing what you know now about Daq, how would you guys compare last year's QB class to this year's?  It's something to think about when you keep hearing wait until next year when there's a better crop.  How many years do you wait and what exactly are you waiting on? 
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I want them to wait until they are at a pick and they feel that a QB is the best or one of the best football players left on the board and then take him.  For a starting QB maybe it's this year at 3 (not sure if I've made it clear that I don't think so..), maybe it's at 12 or 15 or something that they trade down to, or maybe it's where ever we pick first in the 2018, or 2019 draft.

I just don't want them to take a QB at a pick because that is what we NEED.

 
flapgreen said:
Not knowing what you know now about Daq, how would you guys compare last year's QB class to this year's?  It's something to think about when you keep hearing wait until next year when there's a better crop.  How many years do you wait and what exactly are you waiting on? 
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I wasn't impressed with last year's class of QBs and the only one I liked was Wentz.  I don't think this class looks all that much better than last year's honestly.  One of them will most likely have a pretty solid career but not sure I see any studs.

 
OK.  Let's look at next year's class and say there's maybe two who could be seen as successful.  That leaves one from last year, not counting Daq, and potentially two from next year.  If looking at it like some are, that leaves three in the last three drafts.  Now let's say the Bears don't end up with a shot at any if the three.  What's the move? Keep waiting year after year for the perfect qb? I don't see a GM continuing to wait years in hopes of getting a shot at the exact qb they're looking for, while their current qb situation remains a mess.  That's just not how it works IMO.  The scenarios being presented seem completely unrealistic to me.   

 
flapgreen said:
OK.  Let's look at next year's class and say there's maybe two who could be seen as successful.  That leaves one from last year, not counting Daq, and potentially two from next year.  If looking at it like some are, that leaves three in the last three drafts.  Now let's say the Bears don't end up with a shot at any if the three.  What's the move? Keep waiting year after year for the perfect qb? I don't see a GM continuing to wait years in hopes of getting a shot at the exact qb they're looking for, while their current qb situation remains a mess.  That's just not how it works IMO.  The scenarios being presented seem completely unrealistic to me.   
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I just don't want the bears to be stuck trying to start Goff, Lynch(ok too early for this), Bortles, Manual, Tannehill, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder.  Because they were there when they picked and they needed a QB.  Maybe one or two of those guys don't belong on that list, but I think they are all average to below average QB's drafted pretty early.

 
QBs drafted to John Fox’s teams (pick #):
Randy Fasani (137)
Stefan Lefors (121)
Clausen (48)
Tony Pike (204)
Osweiler (57)
Zac Dysert (234)

:X

 
The Tick said:
I just don't want the bears to be stuck trying to start Goff, Lynch(ok too early for this), Bortles, Manual, Tannehill, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder.  Because they were there when they picked and they needed a QB.  Maybe one or two of those guys don't belong on that list, but I think they are all average to below average QB's drafted pretty early.
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I hear you. Me either. 

 
Just saw GrudensCamp with Kizer. Kid seems like he might be a good pick. Starting to soften my stance on taking a QB at 3, but not completely sold yet. I guess it comes down to the combination of players you get in the first and second. Do you go Kizer/best remaining CB, DE, S or do you go Adams/Lattimore/Allen and best QB remaining in the second?

And to answer one of your questions, yes, I'd take another QB next year if they take one in the second or below.

 
That's a good question and one Pace better nail.  His first draft class is turning out to be a flop.  Last year was great.  He needs a repeat of last year, along with getting a franchise qb to keep the team progressing.  It's a lot to ask but that's part of being a GM.  If this draft goes like his first year, he won't have a job much longer.  If it goes like last year and he gets a solid qb, he should be set for years. 

 
Jumping from 12 to 3 would require a huge amount.  They'd be better off just taking him at one. But it's Cleveland so who knows.  If they would do it with the Bears, hell yeah. 

 
3nOut said:
From Cleveland.com; Browns open to trade up from No. 12 with Mitch Trubisky the presumed target.
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Looks like they're talking to the Jets at 6. 

Starting to think these qbs are going to be flying off the board. 

 
The Tick said:
betting it was before I was born in 1978, unless you are counting Rex.
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Not counting Rex. Was trade down and 4th qb off the board. McCown was 5th qb off the board.  McMahon? I haven't looked back all the way but that's the only qb I can't think of that the Bears took in the top 10. 

 
flapgreen said:
OK.  Let's look at next year's class and say there's maybe two who could be seen as successful.  That leaves one from last year, not counting Daq, and potentially two from next year.  If looking at it like some are, that leaves three in the last three drafts.  Now let's say the Bears don't end up with a shot at any if the three.  What's the move? Keep waiting year after year for the perfect qb? I don't see a GM continuing to wait years in hopes of getting a shot at the exact qb they're looking for, while their current qb situation remains a mess.  That's just not how it works IMO.  The scenarios being presented seem completely unrealistic to me.   
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This is what makes drafting a franchise QB so damn hard.  I'm not sure what the right answer is.  There are so many different ways to look at it and I'm not sure any of them are wrong.

 
flapgreen said:
Jumping from 12 to 3 would require a huge amount.  They'd be better off just taking him at one. But it's Cleveland so who knows.  If they would do it with the Bears, hell yeah. 
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Who else in the Top 11 picks needs a QB?  Obviously SF, so they may be the key at #2.   Knowing both Cleveland and SF are in the market helps, but who else may be - Jax?  They have other holes and have an opportunity to grab Fournette...

Cleveland trades to #3 and they can pretty much guarantee drafting both Myles Garrett AND a QB.    The Bears would be able to take a QB at #12 and bring in multiple, additional picks that are certainly needed.    The question will be which QB projects to last to #12?  

If Watson would be available at 12 then I think it is a no brainer ( Trubisky is a risk in my opinion).  Otherwise, it may be better to keep the 3rd overall and wait till round 2.   

 
DaBeers said:
Who else in the Top 11 picks needs a QB?  Obviously SF, so they may be the key at #2.   Knowing both Cleveland and SF are in the market helps, but who else may be - Jax?  They have other holes and have an opportunity to grab Fournette...

Cleveland trades to #3 and they can pretty much guarantee drafting both Myles Garrett AND a QB.    The Bears would be able to take a QB at #12 and bring in multiple, additional picks that are certainly needed.    The question will be which QB projects to last to #12?  

If Watson would be available at 12 then I think it is a no brainer ( Trubisky is a risk in my opinion).  Otherwise, it may be better to keep the 3rd overall and wait till round 2.   
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Wouldn't it be great if the Browns would trade up and give the Bears their 1.12, 2.1, 3.1 and 4.1?  That's a ton to give up but that's what it would take, maybe even one of their 5th round picks yet too.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I don't think anyone is arguing that anymore.  It's just a matter of what pick they take one with.
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I don't know, I'm starting to get the sinking feeling the after draft press conference is going to sound like:

Hub: You've said you could draft a QB every year but for the third year in a row you haven't drafted one, can you explain your thinking?

Ryan: That's a great question.  You know we took a real solid look at all the QB's in this draft and think there were some really talented players, but we also look at the moves we made this offseason and really felt that QB is a strength for us right now and we didn't need to add any more players to the QB room.  We think really highly of Mike and feel that he can be that starting QB we are looking for.  Mark provides a really strong veteran backup, he's been in so many game situations and has seen about everything, so we appreciate that experience he brings.  And we really feel Conner has done great things for us so far.  He has really be developing in the system and we think he could do good things for us in the future.

(note: not in any way am I saying I agree with this, just looking at what they've done this offseason, I could see it)

 
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