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*Official 2017 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles* - Parade of Champions Down Broad Street! (2 Viewers)

Deamon said:
Ok, then "the game isn't the same today where simply having a great defense and a game managing qb can win you a superbowl"

Many using Keenum as an example of this, but I think he's actually a much better qb than he's getting credit for.  Remember when Foles got benched for Keenum 2 years ago?
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Again Jeff Fisher. He's a terrible coach. People have this bad taste in their mouth after what Foles did when he left. But most QBs are terrible under Jeff Fisher. Look at Jared Goff last year to this year with him. Look at Case Keenum with a given oppurtunity now again in Minny vs STL when he was there with Foles. If you want your career as a QB to die you might as well hope Jeff Fisher is your HC. Want to thrive defensively for your career Fisher is your guy. I've thought Fisher was overrated for years. Eddie George and Steve McNair I think were so successful with those teams and Fisher road their coattails. McNair's overall talent took away and hid a lot of Fishers issues with QBs. Fisher is a very very old school 90s type coach. The game and what's going on ideas wise past him yrs ago. I was amazed he still had a HC job as long as he did. Heck even Andy adapted when he got to KC with his offense. Fisher never adapted with the changes of the league. Look at what Keenum did in STL. It was just as bad as Foles. He goes to Minny and he looks better. Foles looked the best he's looked since he left in todays game relieving Wentz Look I'm not saying Keenum is a game manager I think he's better then what many think he is. I'd go as far to say I'd take Keenum over Bradford everyday and twice on Sundays. I just don't know if Keenum is consistent enough plus he doesn't have the experience yet that Foles has of playing a whole year. 

 
renesauz said:
All true, but Foles is a damn sight better than most back-ups, and he has a couple of cream-puff games to warm up with and a cushion for a bye.
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I'm just not sure what we're going off of saying he's so much better than all the others.  We don't see practices, he wasn't overly impressive in preseasons, etc.  When we're pumping Foles' tires here, are we ONLY going off of what he did in ONE season and simply ignoring his body of work in his other 5?  Or coming up with excuses for his other 5 (coaching, teams), but ignoring the factors that might have made his numbers big during his one here?

Trying to look at this objectively, I can't honestly say that Foles looks to be one of the best backup qbs, or that he has shown any signs of being able to beat a team like Seattle or Minny or the Saints. 

We weren't even vegas favourites to win the superbowl WITH Wentz.  To go from the league MVP to a guy who has looked average at best in his last few years, and to not expect a significant drop off just seems silly.  A significant drop off to "even favourites to win the NFC", means "no chance to win the superbowl"at the very LEAST. 

If we are happy with a playoff win and loss in nfcc, then yes our season can still be a success.  If you are of the mindset of 'superbowl or bust', then the season is over.  Sorry to be so negative but that is the reality here that we have to face. 

 
DJackson10 said:
Again Jeff Fisher. He's a terrible coach. People have this bad taste in their mouth after what Foles did when he left. But most QBs are terrible under Jeff Fisher. Look at Jared Goff last year to this year with him. Look at Case Keenum with a given oppurtunity now again in Minny vs STL when he was there with Foles. If you want your career as a QB to die you might as well hope Jeff Fisher is your HC. Want to thrive defensively for your career Fisher is your guy. I've thought Fisher was overrated for years. Eddie George and Steve McNair I think were so successful with those teams and Fisher road their coattails. McNair's overall talent took away and hid a lot of Fishers issues with QBs. Fisher is a very very old school 90s type coach. The game and what's going on ideas wise past him yrs ago. I was amazed he still had a HC job as long as he did. Heck even Andy adapted when he got to KC with his offense. Fisher never adapted with the changes of the league. Look at what Keenum did in STL. It was just as bad as Foles. He goes to Minny and he looks better. Foles looked the best he's looked since he left in todays game relieving Wentz Look I'm not saying Keenum is a game manager I think he's better then what many think he is. I'd go as far to say I'd take Keenum over Bradford everyday and twice on Sundays. I just don't know if Keenum is consistent enough plus he doesn't have the experience yet that Foles has of playing a whole year. 
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Hahaha WHAT? 

Foles has never played more than 13 games in a season.  Keenum has played 12 already this year, and will have played 15 come playoff time.

 
Deamon said:
I'm just not sure what we're going off of saying he's so much better than all the others.  We don't see practices, he wasn't overly impressive in preseasons, etc.  When we're pumping Foles' tires here, are we ONLY going off of what he did in ONE season and simply ignoring his body of work in his other 5?  Or coming up with excuses for his other 5 (coaching, teams), but ignoring the factors that might have made his numbers big during his one here?

Trying to look at this objectively, I can't honestly say that Foles looks to be one of the best backup qbs, or that he has shown any signs of being able to beat a team like Seattle or Minny or the Saints. 

We weren't even vegas favourites to win the superbowl WITH Wentz.  To go from the league MVP to a guy who has looked average at best in his last few years, and to not expect a significant drop off just seems silly.  A significant drop off to "even favourites to win the NFC", means "no chance to win the superbowl"at the very LEAST. 

If we are happy with a playoff win and loss in nfcc, then yes our season can still be a success.  If you are of the mindset of 'superbowl or bust', then the season is over.  Sorry to be so negative but that is the reality here that we have to face. 
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I think Most of us here have the mind set of our season is success even if we only won the Division and lost in the playoffs. How many of us thought we'd be in the position we are in now before the season? If you are always one of those fans with Super Bowl or Bust mentality every year yeah it's gonna be a huge negative. We've been saying this all year here. None of us have the later mentality of this season. No matter what happens this year was a success for us. We made a ton of strides and developed some young players. We basically had Agholar written off as a bust before the year. After what we've done and say we lose Carson for the season it's gonna really be hard to swallow just for the simple fact of how we played this year and the chance we've had. However that's not to say the season isn't a success. No one is crowning Foles god here. I think people souring on Nick are basing it off the fact he was with Jeff Fisher who can't coach a QB worth a lick. 

 
Deamon said:
If we are happy with a playoff win and loss in nfcc, then yes our season can still be a success.  If you are of the mindset of 'superbowl or bust', then the season is over.  Sorry to be so negative but that is the reality here that we have to face. 
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If you're Super or Bust after going 7-9, you needed to chill anyway.  Even with Wentz, he's still a 2nd year QB making the playoffs for the first time.  Eagles have made great strides, and there's serious hope for the future.  But we're not head and shoulders above the rest of the playoff field, with or without Wentz.

 
Deamon said:
Hahaha WHAT? 

Foles has never played more than 13 games in a season.  Keenum has played 12 already this year, and will have played 15 come playoff time.
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That should've been worded better. Foles has shown to have moments of really great play. He also has a playoff game under his belt and mind you he wasn't the reason we lost that game either. Foles has BIG GAME EXPEIRENCE KEENUM DOESN'T HAVE YET. I think that can go a long way. 

 
DJackson10 said:
I think Most of us here have the mind set of our season is success even if we only won the Division and lost in the playoffs. How many of us thought we'd be in the position we are in now before the season? If you are always one of those fans with Super Bowl or Bust mentality every year yeah it's gonna be a huge negative. We've been saying this all year here. None of us have the later mentality of this season. No matter what happens this year was a success for us. We made a ton of strides and developed some young players. We basically had Agholar written off as a bust before the year. After what we've done and say we lose Carson for the season it's gonna really be hard to swallow just for the simple fact of how we played this year and the chance we've had. However that's not to say the season isn't a success. No one is crowning Foles god here. I think people souring on Nick are basing it off the fact he was with Jeff Fisher who can't coach a QB worth a lick. 
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Expectations change.  When I woke up this morning, my mind set was this season will only be a success if we make the super bowl. 

 
babydemon90 said:
If you're Super or Bust after going 7-9, you needed to chill anyway.  Even with Wentz, he's still a 2nd year QB making the playoffs for the first time.  Eagles have made great strides, and there's serious hope for the future.  But we're not head and shoulders above the rest of the playoff field, with or without Wentz.
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This is what I don’t get, some have lost touch with reality. The injury obviously sucks, the trajectory for the franchise is still great. 

 
GoBirds said:
This is what I don’t get, some have lost touch with reality. The injury obviously sucks, the trajectory for the franchise is still great. 
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I was superbowl or bust as of this morning when I woke up, yes.  If you had told me at the start of the season that we'd win the division, I'd have been ecstatic and taken it for SURE.  Are you telling me if we lose our first playoff game, you'll be satisfied with the year given where we're at now?  Seasons like this are not easy to replicate.  Everything has clicked, we've had amazing chemistry, great coaching, and some bounces go our way.  Could it happen again?  Of course.  But this might be/have been our greatest season of all time, so losing in round 1 is going to piss me off.

 
GoBirds said:
That explains your posts, your expectations were far from realistic. 
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Why?  Waking up this morning, the Eagles were either the # 1 or # 2 team in the NFC.  Can't blame the guy for being disappointed if the team didn't make a super bowl given how good they've looked.

 
GoBirds said:
That explains your posts, your expectations were far from realistic. 
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I expected us as of this morning to have a really good shot to make the superbowl.  I know you haven't been around here much this year, but everyone in this group had that mentality that while it wasn't a given, we had a really good chance to win the big game this year.   We no longer have that really good chance.  So yes I'm shattered.

 
Deamon said:
Really?  If Carson didn't get injured you weren't expecting to win 2 playoff games?
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The team only won 7 games last year and you said the only way this season would be a success is if we got to the Super Bowl......that makes no sense. 

 
GoBirds said:
This is what I don’t get, some have lost touch with reality. The injury obviously sucks, the trajectory for the franchise is still great. 
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With a guy like Wentz at QB, the trajectory will always look good.  However, Super Bowl opportunities are still so rare.  Just ask Rodgers (who I think is the best QB in football)

 
Now that the excitement of the game is wearing off, I'm starting to get the same empty feeling in my stomach, like I had on September 1, 1991, when Bryce Paup took out Randall.

I didn't cry that day and I'm not gonna cry today either...

DAMMIT! Why can't we have nice things?

 
Deamon said:
Expectations change.  When I woke up this morning, my mind set was this season will only be a success if we make the super bowl. 
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Well that explains yours posts now. Having that attitude yeah it's gonna be a failure. I had it one game at a time. After going beyond what I thought our W total was I thought anything extra was icing on the cake. You have the mind set you though it's gonna be worse. 

 
GoBirds said:
The team only won 7 games last year and you said the only way this season would be a success is if we got to the Super Bowl......that makes no sense. 
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So if a team goes 7-9 in one season and then finish 14-2 in the next season, your expectations don't change?

 
GoBirds said:
When did we finish 14-2?
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I was speaking hypothetically.  It seems like you're insinuating that expectations are dependent on how the team performed in the previous season.  I believe that expectations should be based on the current situation.  Going into this morning, I don't blame any Eagles fan for expecting the team to be representing the NFC.   :shrug:  

 
GoBirds said:
The team only won 7 games last year and you said the only way this season would be a success is if we got to the Super Bowl......that makes no sense. 
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I said "based on us being 11-2 and in first place in the NFC, not making the superbowl would be a huge disappointment"

At the start of the year everyone was saying we could win the div and I was the one pumping up that my goal was 10 wins, but that I thought Dallas would win 10 or 11. 
During the last few weeks people have talked about being SB favourites, and I have not once said that we are expected to win it.  Again, you haven't been in here all year, so you wouldn't know any of these things. 

If we lose based on another team being better, I can handle that.  I can't handle being legitimate contenders one minute, and losing our qb and no longer being favourites to maybe even win a playoff game. 

Overall, yes a 13 win season from a 7 win season is a 'success'.  WIth the way this way was clicking, and the magical run we were on, I will not be happy if we don't win a playoff game this year.  I will not be 'satisfied' with the year if we lose our only playoff game this year. 

 
DJackson10 said:
Well that explains yours posts now. Having that attitude yeah it's gonna be a failure. I had it one game at a time. After going beyond what I thought our W total was I thought anything extra was icing on the cake. You have the mind set you though it's gonna be worse. 
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Well I'm happy for you that you'll sleep well tonight knowing we're a 13-3 team that loses its first playoff game.  Maybe you care too much about European soccer or your sister's teacher's cousin's friend and not enough about the team.  I am gutted as my expectations this morning were that we have a GREAT CHANCE to make the big game.  We no longer do.  That is a major disappointment. 

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I was speaking hypothetically.  It seems like you're insinuating that expectations are dependent on how the team performed in the previous season.  I believe that expectations should be based on the current situation.  Going into this morning, I don't blame any Eagles fan for expecting the team to be representing the NFC.   :shrug:  
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His comment was he only sees this season a success if we play in the Super Bowl. To make that determination I would compare to recent seasons. We haven’t been in the playoffs recently and weren’t a favorite to take the division this year. Unlike you or some others I didn’t assume we would automatically win all playoff games to get to the Super Bowl with a young QB with no playoff experience. If our season was the Giants or Redskins season I would say it’s not a success but we have a franchise QB that was in the MVP race and have run away with the division. While the injury is clearly a setback, to say this season is not a success is not being realistic to where we are with a 23 year old QB, 2nd year coach, and the league we are in. 

 
GoBirds said:
His comment was he only sees this season a success if we play in the Super Bowl. To make that determination I would compare to recent seasons. We haven’t been in the playoffs recently and weren’t a favorite to take the division this year. Unlike you or some others I didn’t assume we would automatically win all playoff games to get to the Super Bowl with a young QB with no playoff experience. If our season was the Giants or Redskins season I would say it’s not a success but we have a franchise QB that was in the MVP race and have run away with the division. While the injury is clearly a setback, to say this season is not a success is not being realistic to where we are with a 23 year old QB, 2nd year coach, and the league we are in. 
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I understand your point.  Perhaps "success" isn't the right word.  I think Deamon is just frustrated and angry.  Can't blame him for that.

 
GoBirds said:
His comment was he only sees this season a success if we play in the Super Bowl. To make that determination I would compare to recent seasons. We haven’t been in the playoffs recently and weren’t a favorite to take the division this year. Unlike you or some others I didn’t assume we would automatically win all playoff games to get to the Super Bowl with a young QB with no playoff experience. If our season was the Giants or Redskins season I would say it’s not a success but we have a franchise QB that was in the MVP race and have run away with the division. While the injury is clearly a setback, to say this season is not a success is not being realistic to where we are with a 23 year old QB, 2nd year coach, and the league we are in. 
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I never assumed we'd make the superbowl... but i considered us to have a GREAT chance to win the super bowl, and was excited for playoffs.  We no longer have a great chance to win it.  

If we improved from a 7 to 11 win team, won a playoff game, lost in the divisional round than that's one thing.

When the stars finally align for us, and we get everything ripped from us on ONE play, then I will look back on this season and think of the 'what ifs" and be upset about it.  Expectations change.  Again, the reality that we'll be in this good of shape next year going into the playoffs is simply not there.  I do not see a 13-3 season a success if we lose round one of the playoffs. 

If you want to go around high fiving everyone tonight and saying "it's okay guys, we had a good year!  we'll try again next year!  good improvement!" then you do you.

 
Deamon said:
We dont' have the defense that those Tampa teams had (clearly, look at today).   When you look at teams going to their backup qb's, the drop off is monumental these days.  Indy is awful, and even though the packers have beaten a few pretty bad teams lately, they are not near the same team without Rodgers.  Wentz was one of of those guys that 'had it".  I would say his importance to our team was as big as Brady's importance to the Pats.  Wilson's to the Hawks (maybe not quite that much)... Brees to the Saints.  If Brady/Brees/Wilson went down, would you stand here and say they are still legitimate super bowl contenders?  Heck, if Goff went down we'd be the first ones in here saying how they are no longer a threat at all.  The Wentz loss kills our SB chances this year period.  Delusional if people say Foles is beating Brady.
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I think Wentz going down kills our NFC favored status (we were never going to be the favorite in the Super Bowl against the Pats). It doesn't mean we can't be in the NFC Championship and competitive late in the 4th of that game.  

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I understand your point.  Perhaps "success" isn't the right word.  I think Deamon is just frustrated and angry.  Can't blame him for that.
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Yeah, "success" is a hard word to use.  Expectations change by the week and that needs to be taken into consideration.  It takes more than just 'building the program the right way" to win a title.  We all know (especially today) how fast things can change in this league.  We could crash and burn next year.. Wentz could be out until Week 10.  Our D could crash when Schwartz leaves.  No one knows.

All I know is that an hour ago we had the best record in the NFC and almost everyone considered us SB contenders.  That is all gone now and that disappointment is crushing.

 
Neutral fan chiming in.  I think it is totally fair for Eagles fans to have Super Bowl or bust expectations this morning.  They are (or were) the class of the NFC and have, in my view, the next legendary pivot in the game who could take it to the Pats.   

This blows, really.   Going to be tough sledding now.   Don’t think Foles can hang in a shootout but they may have home field.   Which could neutralize teams like the Saints.   

Keep the faith philly   This ain’t over  

 
Thunderlips said:
I think Wentz going down kills our NFC favored status (we were never going to be the favorite in the Super Bowl against the Pats). It doesn't mean we can't be in the NFC Championship and competitive late in the 4th of that game.  
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It means the chances of us being competitive in the 4th of the NFCC are extremely low.  I'm sure come Monday, Vegas will be daring people to bet on us to win the NFCC. 

 
Foles isn't WENTZ but we still have a great run game, very good defense and great coaching.  We have three absolutely winnable games ahead of us to get foles acclimated and then a bye (hopefully) followed by two home games against the lowest seeds possible.  This has been an amazing season and I'm not throwing in the towel yet.  

 
unckeyherb said:
Foles isn't WENTZ but we still have a great run game, very good defense and great coaching.  We have three absolutely winnable games ahead of us to get foles acclimated and then a bye (hopefully) followed by two home games against the lowest seeds possible.  This has been an amazing season and I'm not throwing in the towel yet.  
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Agreed, not ideal but could be worse. Nice to be back in the playoffs finally and Foles has shown he can win games in the past and the Ajayi trade now needs to pay off more than ever.  :thumbup:

 
Deamon said:
Ok, then "the game isn't the same today where simply having a great defense and a game managing qb can win you a superbowl"

Many using Keenum as an example of this, but I think he's actually a much better qb than he's getting credit for.  Remember when Foles got benched for Keenum 2 years ago?
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Remember when Foles threw 27 TD's and only 2 interceptions in 2013? He's not totally unskilled. I think he's like Keenum  and he's actually a much better QB then you are giving him credit for.

 
dhockster said:
Remember when Foles threw 27 TD's and only 2 interceptions in 2013? He's not totally unskilled. I think he's like Keenum  and he's actually a much better QB then you are giving him credit for.
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I do remember that.  But if we're saying that he was only bad as a product of Fisher, than we could say he was only good as a product of that UN-nameable coach we had here in that first year.  He has just not looked very good since then.  He had 20 tds and 20 ints in his next two seasons and looked lost on the field.  If anything is an outlier in his career stats, it's that one magical year. 

 
Kwai Chang Caine said:
My glass is filling up again the more I think about it. It ain't over yet.
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We have good running backs, Foles is as good a back up we could ask for as we already had a young franchise QB where it made sense to have a veteran behind him. The D can step up although today was rough. A lot better position than this time last year.  :hifive:

Anyone know the scenario where Rivers played through one? Can’t imagine that would happen here seeing how it buckled walking and pushing back the recovery time screws next season even more?

 
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Deamon said:
I do remember that.  But if we're saying that he was only bad as a product of Fisher, than we could say he was only good as a product of that UN-nameable coach we had here in that first year.  He has just not looked very good since then.  He had 20 tds and 20 ints in his next two seasons and looked lost on the field.  If anything is an outlier in his career stats, it's that one magical year. 
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I will not be surprised if Nick is just average and the Eagles suffer because of it. I also will not be that surprised if he does well under Pederson and Reich and is an effective game manager that gives the Eagles a chance to win in the playoffs. He led them on a nice drive for a FG and then made a great throw to Agholor to seal the game tonight. I think him having a chance to get some reps with his WR's before the playoffs will be huge. 

I have decided I am not going to wallow in this injury. If we loss in our first playoff game, so what? This season has been great so far, and I don't think it is all due to Carson Wentz. The other 52 guys are pretty good and I don't think they are giving up. So I am not going to give up as a fan, either.

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I was speaking hypothetically.  It seems like you're insinuating that expectations are dependent on how the team performed in the previous season.  I believe that expectations should be based on the current situation.  Going into this morning, I don't blame any Eagles fan for expecting the team to be representing the NFC.   :shrug:  
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i can only speak for myself, but i think the feeling was hope to represent the NFC. playoffs were kind of like a whole new season, and you have a 2nd year coach and a 2nd year QB going into it. anybody who assumed they were a lock for super bowl was a little too optimistic. Games in the playoffs usually show a different level of intensity and the Eagles have shown they are not levels above Seattle and the Rams.

i'm still looking forward to the playoffs and seeing how the rest of the team can step up. playoffs aren't next week, let's see how the team bounces back. this is likely tougher tyhen having to adjust to the losses of Peters and Hicks, but it is silly to think this team has no chance now

 
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