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*Official 2017 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles* - Parade of Champions Down Broad Street! (3 Viewers)

Mr. Irrelevant said:
:goodposting:  

I just queried PFR for the scrimmage yards RB leaders in 2016. Here's where the top 12 were drafted ... just as Deamon noted, it looks like the sweet spot is in the late 2nd through 4th rounds:


1


David Johnson


3-86


2


Ezekiel Elliott


1-4


3


Le'Veon Bell


2-48


4


DeMarco Murray


3-71


5


LeSean McCoy


2-53


6


Devonta Freeman


4-103


7


Jay Ajayi


5-149


8


Melvin Gordon


1-15


9


Spencer Ware


6-194


10


Mark Ingram


1-28


11


Frank Gore


3-65


12


Lamar Miller


4-97

Of course the hit rate on mid-round RBs is going to be a lot lower than on 1st-rounders ... but guess what, that's the case at every other position as well. I haven't run the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if the correlation between draft position and total value above replacement for RBs is significantly lower than the average overall.
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17 of the top 21 QBs in yards this year were drafted within the first 36 picks, including 12 in the top 4.

6 of the top 12 WRs in yards this year were 1st-round picks, plus 3 2nd-round picks.

 
Deamon said:
Hell yes.  No question.

Might even do #15 for Cooks straight up.  Would there be that much better of a WR we could get at 15? 
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He'd be like D-Jax and Mathews combined. Wouldn't hesitate one second for Cooks! Throw Kendricks in for Ingram but it'll never happen. It's not fantasy football.

 
Long Ball Larry said:
17 of the top 21 QBs in yards this year were drafted within the first 36 picks, including 12 in the top 4.

6 of the top 12 WRs in yards this year were 1st-round picks, plus 3 2nd-round picks.
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Before seeing your stats that's pretty much exactly what I would have guessed. The correlation between high draft picks and success at QB has been obvious for decades, and the qualities that set true stud WRs apart are evident on college tape and at the combine (route-running, leaping ability, YAC). Whereas elite college OLs can make average RBs look like world-beaters, and vice versa. Even Football Outsiders comes right out and admits they can't do a good job separating RB metrics from those of the OL they run behind.

Unless you have a true generational talent like AP or Zeke sitting there on draft day, I think it's much wiser to use those early picks on BPA and throw one mid-round dart a year at the RB position until you hit.

 
Assuming you've watched most philly games, what are your realistic expectations for Wentz for next year from a FF perspective? 

 
Dr. Brew said:
Assuming you've watched most philly games, what are your realistic expectations for Wentz for next year from a FF perspective? 
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hard to say. I'm not exactly sure what Pederson's offense will focus on. if they don't add anything significant to their RBs, i would have to think his numbers will only be better

 
Dr. Brew said:
Assuming you've watched most philly games, what are your realistic expectations for Wentz for next year from a FF perspective? 
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A full offseason of work as the starter with not distractions from the draft or previous starter drama, Wentz should be able to get a rhythm with guys like Matthews and Ertz. Hopefully that means December Ertz shows up early.  Just that piece alone is enough to give you a positive outlook based on what he did in his rookie year. 

He was healthy 16 games, went 16-14 TD to int for 3700 yards with 62% completion. Thats a pretty good Rookie year. 

 
Mr. Irrelevant said:
Unless you have a true generational talent like AP or Zeke sitting there on draft day, I think it's much wiser to use those early picks on BPA and throw one mid-round dart a year at the RB position until you hit.
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What's odd is that some didn't want us to take Zeke even before we moved up because he wasn't perceived as a generational talent.  Personally, I'm not for or against any one way to get a RB but it seems convenient that only the "hits" are mentioned when discussing a late round RB.  For every Jordan Howard there's a Lorenzo Taliaferro.  IMO I'd rather have a choice from the full list.  If they believe that one is THAT good you take him.  Now what works out well for us this year is that I see a LOT of really good RB's this season.  Combine that with how well the RB class was last season we can land a serious talent in round 2, 3 or 4.

Dr. Brew said:
Assuming you've watched most philly games, what are your realistic expectations for Wentz for next year from a FF perspective? 
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Hard to say until we see what we add around him.  I expect progression in quite a few areas and I think what will take the biggest leap will be how and when he chooses to run.  Down the stretch he did a much better job of using his legs and escaping pressure. 

 
I am excited to see what they bring to give Wentz some weapons. Would be nice to land a big target WR. I grabbed him to keep for a last round draft pick if I wanted to. Would be nice to land a quality QB with the last pick

 
Mr. Irrelevant said:
Before seeing your stats that's pretty much exactly what I would have guessed. The correlation between high draft picks and success at QB has been obvious for decades, and the qualities that set true stud WRs apart are evident on college tape and at the combine (route-running, leaping ability, YAC). Whereas elite college OLs can make average RBs look like world-beaters, and vice versa. Even Football Outsiders comes right out and admits they can't do a good job separating RB metrics from those of the OL they run behind.

Unless you have a true generational talent like AP or Zeke sitting there on draft day, I think it's much wiser to use those early picks on BPA and throw one mid-round dart a year at the RB position until you hit.
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Zeke is no generational talent. He's running behind one of the best OL in the last decade if not the best.

 
Dr. Brew said:
Assuming you've watched most philly games, what are your realistic expectations for Wentz for next year from a FF perspective? 
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More play action pass which will result in more shots down field. The screen will become an extension of the run in Dougie's eye's. 

Wentz's floor for 2017 is his 2016 stats. 

 
Keep in mind Trent Richardson was supposed to be that upper tier too.  Zeke worked for the Cowboys, but we're not them.  RB in the first won't add many wins.   If there's a true #1 WR, then I'm on board, otherwise BPA all day.  being able to get RB production at a 2nd/3rd round salary is very beneficial to the overall cap and talent as well.  If we could get Fournette in the 2nd, then I'm game.  He didn't have a great year, so he might drop....

 
babydemon90 said:
Keep in mind Trent Richardson was supposed to be that upper tier too.  Zeke worked for the Cowboys, but we're not them.  RB in the first won't add many wins.   If there's a true #1 WR, then I'm on board, otherwise BPA all day.  being able to get RB production at a 2nd/3rd round salary is very beneficial to the overall cap and talent as well.  If we could get Fournette in the 2nd, then I'm game.  He didn't have a great year, so he might drop....
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The 2nd could have  Fournette, Cook, McCaffrey or Mixon for us.  Mixon may even make the 3rd.  All 4 of these guys have legit potential.

 
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Roseman: Joe Douglas will lead the draft room and form the draft board for the #Eagles.

Howie Roseman said that Joe Douglas will set the draft board, but he still ultimately has final say on who's picked

 
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babydemon90 said:
 If there's a true #1 WR, then I'm on board, otherwise BPA all day.  
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I don't think we take a rookie and add him to the other 5 under 25 y.o. receivers and expect him to be a #1 next year. Too much pressure. Too much risk. We are better off trying to fill that "solid, dependable" void with someone that's played a few years in the league and use our first-rounder somewhere else. 

 
lod001 said:
Zeke is no generational talent. He's running behind one of the best OL in the last decade if not the best.
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The line isn't nearly as good as people tell you. Yes, it's a very good line but Doug Free (RT) is a turnstile, the LG is also a weakness with Leary (better at run blocking than pass pro) and Collins who gets too excited sometimes. 

I'm not suggesting they aren't good but they aren't the 90's Cowboys who would bludgeon you to near death. These guys are more finesse and athletic. 

I dont know if Zeke is a generational talent or not but there is a black and white difference when Zeke is in the backfield as opposed to Alfred Morris and Darren McFadden, who aren't scrubs.  He is a devastating pass blocker who can run through you or hurdle you and has breakaway speed. 

oh, and he's also the youngest  running back in the NFL.

 
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The Noid said:
I don't think we take a rookie and add him to the other 5 under 25 y.o. receivers and expect him to be a #1 next year. Too much pressure. Too much risk. We are better off trying to fill that "solid, dependable" void with someone that's played a few years in the league and use our first-rounder somewhere else. 
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This is why I'm a fan of the Jeffery & Davis combo. I'm wondering what Douglas' opinion is of Jeffery, he'd have first hand knowledge having been in Chicago last season. 

 
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STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
The line isn't nearly as good as people tell you. Yes, it's a very good line but Doug Free (RT) is a turnstile, the LG is also a weakness with Leary (better at run blocking than pass pro) and Collins who gets too excited sometimes. 

I'm not suggesting they aren't good but they aren't the 90's Cowboys who would bludgeon you to near death. These guys are more finesse and athletic. 

I dont know if Zeke is a generational talent or not but there is a black and white difference when Zeke is in the backfield as opposed to Alfred Morris and Darren McFadden, who aren't scrubs.  He is a devastating pass blocker who can run through you or hurdle you and has breakaway speed. 

oh, and he's also the youngest  running back in the NFL.
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Yes I scratch my head when I keep hearing everyone say that this line is made from Gods of Thunder or something. The Dallas OL is good-but not greatest ever. I keep reading the discounting of Zeke and Dak as barely above a JAG, and just shake my head. Someone (my buddy Rene?) even said that Dak is no better than 20-25 QBs that would do just as well behind that line. Really.... 25 QBs would lead Dallas to a 13-2 record? Now thats some green colored glasses for sure. No way anyone who watches every Dallas game, the practice reports, interviews and such can say that Dak is at best #26 out of 32 choices at QB. While I agree that DJohnson or Bell may be a tad better than Zeke, he's way more skilled and polished than the other 20-25 backs, regardless of the O-Line situations. 

 
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G-King said:
Yes I scratch my head when I keep hearing everyone say that this line is made from Gods of Thunder or something. The Dallas OL is good-but not greatest ever. I keep reading the discounting of Zeke and Dak as barely above a JAG, and just shake my head. Someone (my buddy Rene?) even said that Dak is no better than 20-25 QBs that would do just as well behind that line. Really.... 25 QBs would lead Dallas to a 13-2 record? Now thats some green colored glasses for sure. No way anyone who watches every Dallas game, the practice reports, interviews and such can say that Dak is at best #26 out of 32 choices at QB. While I agree that DJohnson or Bell may be a tad better than Zeke, he's way more skilled and polished than the other 20-25 backs, regardless of the O-Line situations. 
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:kicksrock: can't argue with this and SteadyMobbin's posts

 
Dr. Brew said:
Assuming you've watched most philly games, what are your realistic expectations for Wentz for next year from a FF perspective?
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Too early for real projections, but I would expect similar yards with a small uptick in efficiency, a few less Interceptions, perhaps another TD or two but no dramatic increases.

 
G-King said:
Yes I scratch my head when I keep hearing everyone say that this line is made from Gods of Thunder or something. The Dallas OL is good-but not greatest ever. I keep reading the discounting of Zeke and Dak as barely above a JAG, and just shake my head. Someone (my buddy Rene?) even said that Dak is no better than 20-25 QBs that would do just as well behind that line. Really.... 25 QBs would lead Dallas to a 13-2 record? Now thats some green colored glasses for sure. No way anyone who watches every Dallas game, the practice reports, interviews and such can say that Dak is at best #26 out of 32 choices at QB. While I agree that DJohnson or Bell may be a tad better than Zeke, he's way more skilled and polished than the other 20-25 backs, regardless of the O-Line situations.
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Yep...I said that about Zak, and I stand by it....for now.

Kid seems to have a good head on his shoulders, but nothing he did screams elite. And he wasn't really asked to do much. Arguments about just how elite that line is are semantics. All time great or just great is immaterial...either way it was one of the best lines in football the last couple of years, and Zeke might well be the best RB in football right now (IMO he's at least n the discussion). Dak was basically put into the position of game manager. A role he performed very well, but there are lots of QBs who can play game manager. Plenty of QBs could have gotten them to 11-13 wins with that line, that running game, and with the role he took on.

The jury is out re. exactly how good he can be. It's not a ding to say 20 NFL QBs could have done what he did this year (he was a rookie!). It's also fair to say that his ceiling is probably higher than 10 of those guys. I don't see a top 5 type guy, but could he be a top 10-12 given a couple years seasoning? Maybe...

if I was a Cowboys fan I'd be happy right now.

 
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Situation is everything though.  If Tom Brady was drafted by the Browns, he'd have been out of the league in 4 years.  Prescott getting in a situation where he can learn the NFL and the pro game with that line, that running game, experienced coaching, is huge for his development.  He very well could be top 5 by the time his next contract rolls around.

 
Zeke's legit. His presence makes the D that Dak faces to pass that much easier.

I'm not sold on Dak being a SUPERSTAR!!!!........but I think he'll masquarade as one as long as Zeke's around....and he has enough football presence, head and physical talent to become a very, very good QB in the NFL. 

 
Dr. Brew said:
Assuming you've watched most philly games, what are your realistic expectations for Wentz for next year from a FF perspective? 
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More than almost any other QB in the league I think the answer right now, in January, is "it depends".

Wentz has the physical tools and mentality to be a gunslinger in the Favre / Big Ben mold, who will cost you 2-3 games a season with inexplicable INTs but whose ceiling can win you 6-8 others. The problems are that he's got both a bottom-5 WR corps in the NFL and a HC who seems to have fallen directly off the Andy Reid offensive philosophy tree of RB screens and 8-yard hitch routes.

Elite fantasy QBs can make up for one of these failings - witness what Cam did last season with his band of Smurfs or Vick's insane 2010 under Reid. But I can't think of a single example of one overcoming both to still be a prime fantasy asset.

Now, if the Birds happen to snag a Jeffery in FA or an Evans clone in the draft, that can change in a hurry. But Wentz finished dead last in fantasy points among QBs who started all 16 games, and there's a pretty big canyon to jump between that and fantasy relevance in most leagues. So absent that kind of big splash I don't think he'll be worth drafting outside of 2QB leagues, and would be surprised at anything better than a QB15-18 finish.

 
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Mr. Irrelevant said:
More than almost any other QB in the league I think the answer right now, in January, is "it depends".

Wentz has the physical tools and mentality to be a gunslinger in the Favre / Big Ben mold, who will cost you 2-3 games a season with inexplicable INTs but whose ceiling can win you 6-8 others. The problems are that he's got both a bottom-5 WR corps in the NFL and a HC who seems to have fallen directly off the Andy Reid offensive philosophy tree of RB screens and 8-yard hitch routes.

Elite fantasy QBs can make up for one of these failings - witness what Cam did last season with his band of Smurfs or Vick's insane 2010 under Reid. But I can't think of a single example of one overcoming both to still be a prime fantasy asset.

Now, if the Birds happen to snag a Jeffery in FA or an Evans clone in the draft, that can change in a hurry. But Wentz finished dead last in fantasy points among QBs who started all 16 games, and there's a pretty big canyon to jump between that and fantasy relevance in most leagues. So absent that kind of big splash I don't think he'll be worth drafting outside of 2QB leagues, and would be surprised at anything better than a QB15-18 finish.
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Exactly, he has the worst set of skill position players in the league.  He was able to perform well the first quarter of the season due to a great running game.  After the OL was disrupted with Lane's suspension plus Brook, Barbre, coming and going due to injury things went to ####.  He felt he needed to sling it to receivers that did nothing but drop passes and disappoint.  Plus the defense wilted.  The jury is still out but I tend to think he is going to be a pretty good QB eventually.

As for Dak Prescott.  I think he is a good QB.  Is he elite? Jury is still out.  That team philosophy is ground and pound.  Control the game clock with an elite rushing attack so that the D doesn't wear down.  Not sure how anyone can say Zeke isn't a generational talent.  The kid is a beast.  He's arguably the best (and youngest) back in the league.  Only guy I may take over him is Lev Bell.

 
Is Dak even the best QB on his own team? Once that gets answered or he starts putting teams on his back (?) like Romo he'll enter a different discussion. Right now, on 1/5/17, he's a game manager who's about the 5-6th best player on his own offense. 

"Lead his team to 13-2"

That was a good one. Followed his team to 13-2 is more accurate. 

 
Deamon said:
Sounds like SD would be the best of all those in terms of chance to win/ticket prices/coolness of city.  It's awesome there.
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If the Chargers stay and anyone chooses to travel to San Diego, hit me up with any and all questions. I've lived here all my life and even stayed at most of the hotels/resorts here. 

 
I think Eagles fans are under selling how successful Dak has been in his rookie year.  If you want to question Dak's potential to become elite, then you certainly have to question Wentz's potential to become elite.  Yes Dak has had a far better supporting cast than Wentz but his numbers blow Wentz out of the sky.  23/4 TD/int ratio for a rookie QB is extremely impressive for a rookie no matter the supporting case.  No other way to spin it IMO.  As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it's quite possible that he's the next Russell Wilson.  I would bet on that more than I would on him flopping.  

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I think Eagles fans are under selling how successful Dak has been in his rookie year.  If you want to question Dak's potential to become elite, then you certainly have to question Wentz's potential to become elite.  Yes Dak has had a far better supporting cast than Wentz but his numbers blow Wentz out of the sky.  23/4 TD/int ratio for a rookie QB is extremely impressive for a rookie no matter the supporting case.  No other way to spin it IMO.  As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it's quite possible that he's the next Russell Wilson.  I would bet on that more than I would on him flopping.  
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Certainly not under selling what kind of a year he has had.  He's been very impressive.  One of the most impressive rookie seasons ever but I think it was more of a product of the run game Dallas has.  I know it's a BS argument but I believe you flip flop Wentz and Prescott they both have similar seasons to what it is in reality.  Dallas has elite skill position players compared to probably the worst in the league with the Eagles.

 
Mr. Irrelevant said:
More than almost any other QB in the league I think the answer right now, in January, is "it depends".

Wentz has the physical tools and mentality to be a gunslinger in the Favre / Big Ben mold, who will cost you 2-3 games a season with inexplicable INTs but whose ceiling can win you 6-8 others. The problems are that he's got both a bottom-5 WR corps in the NFL and a HC who seems to have fallen directly off the Andy Reid offensive philosophy tree of RB screens and 8-yard hitch routes.

Elite fantasy QBs can make up for one of these failings - witness what Cam did last season with his band of Smurfs or Vick's insane 2010 under Reid. But I can't think of a single example of one overcoming both to still be a prime fantasy asset.

Now, if the Birds happen to snag a Jeffery in FA or an Evans clone in the draft, that can change in a hurry. But Wentz finished dead last in fantasy points among QBs who started all 16 games, and there's a pretty big canyon to jump between that and fantasy relevance in most leagues. So absent that kind of big splash I don't think he'll be worth drafting outside of 2QB leagues, and would be surprised at anything better than a QB15-18 finish.
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I have to wonder how much of this is due to:
1. QB inexperience in reading downfield coverage
2. Offensive line woes leading to needing a faster release
3. Lack of WR talent / a TE who was not healthy

Like you said, if you add a very good WR to that mix you'd think you'd be getting them the ball quite often and deep. Need to fix that OL obviously. 

I think the upside is there. Yes, if it's dink and dunk even with the above fixed, you'll have Sam Bradford 2.0

 
Lehigh98 said:
Was thinking about travelling for a game last year but no real good options, next year looks better.

Rams still playing at the Coliseum but could hit Disneyland while in the area.

Who knows what San Diego is going to do at this point.

Hit up some BBQ in KC or buy raincoats in Seattle.

Drive down to Carolina.

Any suggestions for best place to travel for an away game with the family next year?
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* The Coliseum from what I've heard is in a bad area. In the area go only East to North. Gamedays there's ton of police so just do if you go what you would do in a large crowd. Don't bring anything valuable besides the necessities like the phone and wallet and keep both in the front pockets. You should be fine if you go for a game but who knows how you might be received from Philly there. I had friends attend the LA Dodger games in the playoffs in 08, 09 and 10 and there were horror stories galore. One guy was bashed in the head with a beer bottle while taking a leak, two of my friends were told by an usher after the Stairs HR game (I think that ball has still not landed) to take off their Phillies gear and put it in this bag and carry it out. Don't stop for anything get in your car or taxi or whatever and go. A fan had fallen at the one game and a few LA fans could be heard saying they hoped it was a Philly fan. I say go to LA at your own risk to the Coliseum though. My one buddy went for the Rose Bowl on Mon so I didn't hear anything terrible. I don't know if I'd take little ones if you planned on that

* SD is a place I'd go. I've had tons of friends either move out there or visit. You hardly ever get a bad day in SD. I've had friends come back and say they've met tons of Philly people and even met like 10 people who were from our area and township a bit older then us. SD is a fine place if the Chargers are playing there and with the Philly presents it's like Philly West similar to Arz fan wise. 

* I'd suggest KC it's a fun stadium. Collinsworth and Michaels talked about Arrowhead during the Den game last week how it stood the test of time and has been around since after the first SB. I've been there and it's great. As I said my Co workers son who's an Eagles coach now was in KC with Andy. I went to visit him with her two yrs ago. Met some of the coaches and players and to my amazement Big Red remembered me from the time I met him way back when my cousin introduced me to him. He chatted with me like we were old friends who hadn't seen each other in yrs. The facilities are beatiful and Eric Berry was with her son showing us around as he wanted to meet Dino's family. I Eric I wasn't family I worked with Dino's mom. I had to mention I was a UF fan but he was one of my favorite non UF players and told him how my PE teacher and our HS Football coach played with Conridge back in UT years ago. KC is a great place and must see. My cousin has Seahawk Season tickets so I've been to Sea too. I still will debate and say Arrowhead is way louder then SEA. I honestly think SEA puts in fake noise because as my brother being an architectural engineer said when we went there's no way with that infastructure that stadium should get as loud as we got in there without some help. Both are great cities though. I suggest just visiting SEA and doing it late July-Early Aug. Best time of the year and doesn't ran as much then. That;s the trick when going to Sea. KC depends when we play them. Early Sept is a must maybe Eagly Oct but end of the year it's choosing should I just stay and freeze my carcaus off in Philly or KC ? 

* Carolina is a nice town to go too. I have an Ex Girlfriend who I'm still best friends with down there and I've gone and visited her a few times. We went to the Panthers/Eagles game down there last year. It's a fun place not the greatest of stadiums in the wow factor but I have no complaints. The surrounding city is filled with a tons of history and stuff and as an Avid fan of History I felt like I hit the lottery. However it does get surprisingly cold in the winter there. 

Either way I just read that plane tickets are gonna be much cheaper this year now for coast to coast and other trips. You might luck out on prices. Always check all he discount sites for hotel accommodations and other things. Either way let us know what you decided.  

 
Alex P Keaton said:
What do you homers see happening at RB next year in Philly?
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Ryan Mathews is gone, Smallwood getting more involved and possible seeing Sproles in his usual spot. My question is despite the lack of weapons and now Sproles says he will retire after next year do you cut him if you get good depth like a drafted guy in Fournette/Cook and maybe a vet change of pace guys in FA and save some money or do you keep him for the year, use him like always, hope for the best and if he retires say thanks for the memories? I say keep him but if something changes it's always nice to have that extra space. Either way Eagles need to add a playmaker. I'm more sold on the rookie backs then the WRs who don't have me jumping up and down like Years past. If Cook/Fournett land in their lap they take them in the first and if not I say BPA on CB 

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I think Eagles fans are under selling how successful Dak has been in his rookie year.  If you want to question Dak's potential to become elite, then you certainly have to question Wentz's potential to become elite.  Yes Dak has had a far better supporting cast than Wentz but his numbers blow Wentz out of the sky.  23/4 TD/int ratio for a rookie QB is extremely impressive for a rookie no matter the supporting case.  No other way to spin it IMO.  As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it's quite possible that he's the next Russell Wilson.  I would bet on that more than I would on him flopping.  
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There once was a young guy a couple years ago here who went 27-2 and had one of the best seasons of all time in the NFL. What team does that man start for now? #'s mean very little. From a ratio standpoint this will more than likely be Dak's best year.  Also, I don't think drawing a comparison to potential and #'s works that way either.  The stars aligned for Dallas and Dak, period. How many teams can say that they have the best at a position at 4 spots on one side of the ball? How many in history could say that? And that's me not including Dez who's is arguably a top 5-7 WR and Witten who still may be a top 10 TE.  Did I also mention the fact that they played one of the NFL's easiest schedules this season?  And how many games did all of these guys I mentioned miss combined?  Just Dez's 3? Much like the "young man" I mentioned above the stars aligned.  I'm not underselling him at all, I'm just looking at the entire picture.  The combo of things I mentioned above will more than likely never happen for him, or Dallas again.  

Like I mentioned in another post when Dak starts being asked to do the things that's Wilson has done, with that amount of success, the conversation will change. As it stands today there is no comparing a guy who's actually leads his team to one that is a game manager. 

 
lod001 said:
Zeke is no generational talent. He's running behind one of the best OL in the last decade if not the best.
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I agree. I was never a huge Zeke fan and maybe some of that has to do with my OSU hatred and B1G hatred as well but he had a great Oline in College and NFL. This league is also a passing league and eventually Dal will have to pony up big $$$ to keep him. Jerry didn't do that with Murray knowing a lot of his success came from that Oline and it was one of the smartest Decisions I've ever seen Jones make since I was able to understand moves in football. RBs only last 5-7 yrs where a franchise QB could go a good 10-15 if you acquire one of the best there is. Smart money and use of economical resources says go for the QB. I have no problem picking an RB mid-late first however but using a top 10 pick I'm always against. it may sound like such a small separation but when it comes time for contract talk guys will always use where they were picked in a negotiation plow if they were a top say 50 pick. Zeke is talented but he's not as good as he's advertised. I have zero problem if Fournette/Cook dropped to us and we took them though. 

I also wanted to just say it's nice talking and posting to other football fans who agree to disagree with you and can actually have a polite conversation. No one trying to throw their views onto others like it's golden truth. I have a huge problem with posters on the other board I go to who do that. A lot of egotistical I'm always right Jack holes and if you don't agree with their opinion they become sharks out for blood against you. 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
The 2nd could have  Fournette, Cook, McCaffrey or Mixon for us.  Mixon may even make the 3rd.  All 4 of these guys have legit potential.
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I want nothing to do with Mixon after that video. Guys and DV just really get under my skin. That type of behavior just shows me I don't give a dam and I think I'm entitled. Plus the way the NFL and public is with DV cases it's hard for me to see that guy getting drafted and if he is it'd be some team like Cincy or Cle. I felt Sick when we signed Vick too. I believe in Second chances but I'm a guy in Vick's case he committed a federal crime and that should be an automatic ban from the NFL period. I know we have guys like DGB and Mills on the team but there's a lot of he said she said no one knows what really happened if at all and DGB like or not was being a typical college athlete probably not thinking straight at the time. Guys like Vick and Mixon did what they did knowing how wrong it was. I'd be shocked if Mixon gets drafted IMHO. The NFL black balled Ray Rice after that video surfaced. Plus I'm against taking Big 12 conference offensive guys. That Conference doesn't know what the term defense means. 

 
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The Noid said:
I don't think we take a rookie and add him to the other 5 under 25 y.o. receivers and expect him to be a #1 next year. Too much pressure. Too much risk. We are better off trying to fill that "solid, dependable" void with someone that's played a few years in the league and use our first-rounder somewhere else. 
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I like going the FA route for WRs. Maybe take two a bigger name that wouldn't break the bank and maybe a guy who is young still has potential but hasn't found his place yet. I'd be all for Pryor/Stills but I'd have no problem Bringing DeSean back on a cheap deal as a place holder till they find that speed threat. I'm not jumping up and down for the WRs this year. There just seems to be a question marks on all of them. The best Williams is becoming injury prone, Corey Davis his numbers for a guy in a conference like he played numbers don't jump out at me and unimpressed (Similar to Dak Prescott but more so he was hyped up as the next great college player in the conference after Tebow and choked), Ross is a speed deamon but it scares me reading he disappeared at times, and I want nothing to do with a USC WR. Name me the last guy since Keyshawn Johnson from USC who was great at WR let alone skilled position on Offense not named Johnson or Palmer. Maybe add in Reggie Bush but I think he was over drafted for the type of player he is and had uneccessary pressure and expectations do to it. 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
This is why I'm a fan of the Jeffery & Davis combo. I'm wondering what Douglas' opinion is of Jeffery, he'd have first hand knowledge having been in Chicago last season. 
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I'm not a huge Jeffery Fan and I think he'd cost too much in salary cap space. With the PED issue maybe his price drops but with Lane Johnson already hear do they risk that? There's also reports how John Fox HC has questioned his work ethic as well. Jeffrey there is availability questions (yes I stole that from Mike Mayock because I love the term) do to injuries and has never started 16 games since his rookie year. I find the dude talented but severely overrated do to his size and athleticism. The way people talk about him you;'d think he's a top 5 WR and he's not. Plus I'm not for signing a 30 yrs old to a big contract. We're better off signing lesser name guys who could maybe give you similar production in 3 yrs then jeffrey could at a cheaper cost as well. Even going back to SC I've never been overly impressed with him. 

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I think Eagles fans are under selling how successful Dak has been in his rookie year.  If you want to question Dak's potential to become elite, then you certainly have to question Wentz's potential to become elite.  Yes Dak has had a far better supporting cast than Wentz but his numbers blow Wentz out of the sky.  23/4 TD/int ratio for a rookie QB is extremely impressive for a rookie no matter the supporting case.  No other way to spin it IMO.  As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it's quite possible that he's the next Russell Wilson.  I would bet on that more than I would on him flopping.  
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Once upon a time Nick Foles went 27-2 in 10 games. People tell me that's not very impressive now that he's a backup. :shrug:

 
Insein said:
Once upon a time Nick Foles went 27-2 in 10 games. People tell me that's not very impressive now that he's a backup. :shrug:
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Foles is probably the exception more than the norm.  The vibe I get is that many Eagles fans think that Dak won't be anything special.  I just don't think we know that at this point.  It seems like the potential is there   :shrug:   

 
fred_1_15301 said:
I think Eagles fans are under selling how successful Dak has been in his rookie year.  If you want to question Dak's potential to become elite, then you certainly have to question Wentz's potential to become elite.  Yes Dak has had a far better supporting cast than Wentz but his numbers blow Wentz out of the sky.  23/4 TD/int ratio for a rookie QB is extremely impressive for a rookie no matter the supporting case.  No other way to spin it IMO.  As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it's quite possible that he's the next Russell Wilson.  I would bet on that more than I would on him flopping.  
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I'm a big SEC fan so I watched Dax through college. To me he's no more then a poor man's McNabb. He did what McNabb would've done his first few yrs had his offense been as good as the defense the team had. Dax was propped up in the Conference as the next best College player in the conference at QB since Tebow (Success wise but better arm and QB Talent). Time and again the dude choked or disappointed. Yeah he had better passing stats obviously and Tebow had some great Teams at UF but Dak was one of the main reasons they lost to Bama throwing 3 costly picks in that game. To me Dak reminds me more of a McNabb but less athleticism and just a bit bigger. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't think as of right now it's fair for people or analyst to say he's a top elite QB. i give that to guys who are consistently good every year. It's why last year I argued Cam newton isn't elite as he's never been consistent and plus he's a huge diva when things don't go his way it's always someone else fault. Case in point look at Last years Cam and this years? People said he was over his diva attitude well after the SB and in game not going for that fumble tells a different Story. Dax is way more of a character guy then Cam though so he has that going for him. For the sake of a rivalry I hope Dak is good so we can have a great QB rivlary again between the two teams. however I think people are overrating Dax and giving him too much credit where Wentz is being underrrated. Wentz has the potential to be an elite game changing QB if the Eagles help him with some Weapons on Offense. He could be the next Big Ben type. Dak to me won't be elite not a guy who could carry a team but still top 15 guy. I'd say similoar potential with McNabb but better weapons his first few yrs. And frankly that should be a comparison people are ok with for Dak. maybe Dal fans won't like it being compared to an Eagles QB who kind of had his way at times against them but it's a fair comparision I've already read from scouts and such as well. Either way it's both kids first year in the league. Lets wait before crowning anyone a future HoFer and giving them a Gold Jacket. 

 
DJackson10 said:
I'm a big SEC fan so I watched Dax through college. To me he's no more then a poor man's McNabb. He did what McNabb would've done his first few yrs had his offense been as good as the defense the team had. Dax was propped up in the Conference as the next best College player in the conference at QB since Tebow (Success wise but better arm and QB Talent). Time and again the dude choked or disappointed. Yeah he had better passing stats obviously and Tebow had some great Teams at UF but Dak was one of the main reasons they lost to Bama throwing 3 costly picks in that game. To me Dak reminds me more of a McNabb but less athleticism and just a bit bigger. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't think as of right now it's fair for people or analyst to say he's a top elite QB. i give that to guys who are consistently good every year. It's why last year I argued Cam newton isn't elite as he's never been consistent and plus he's a huge diva when things don't go his way it's always someone else fault. Case in point look at Last years Cam and this years? People said he was over his diva attitude well after the SB and in game not going for that fumble tells a different Story. Dax is way more of a character guy then Cam though so he has that going for him. For the sake of a rivalry I hope Dak is good so we can have a great QB rivlary again between the two teams. however I think people are overrating Dax and giving him too much credit where Wentz is being underrrated. Wentz has the potential to be an elite game changing QB if the Eagles help him with some Weapons on Offense. He could be the next Big Ben type. Dak to me won't be elite not a guy who could carry a team but still top 15 guy. I'd say similoar potential with McNabb but better weapons his first few yrs. And frankly that should be a comparison people are ok with for Dak. maybe Dal fans won't like it being compared to an Eagles QB who kind of had his way at times against them but it's a fair comparision I've already read from scouts and such as well. Either way it's both kids first year in the league. Lets wait before crowning anyone a future HoFer and giving them a Gold Jacket. 
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 I agree with a lot of what you said but disagree entirely with Dak "choking time and time again" at while Miss State.  His surrounding cast was absolute garbage and his receivers dropped everything. All you need to do is look at what all miss did prior to that getting there. 

 
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DJackson10 said:
I want nothing to do with Mixon after that video. Guys and DV just really get under my skin. That type of behavior just shows me I don't give a dam and I think I'm entitled. Plus the way the NFL and public is with DV cases it's hard for me to see that guy getting drafted and if he is it'd be some team like Cincy or Cle. I felt Sick when we signed Vick too. I believe in Second chances but I'm a guy in Vick's case he committed a federal crime and that should be an automatic ban from the NFL period. I know we have guys like DGB and Mills on the team but there's a lot of he said she said no one knows what really happened if at all and DGB like or not was being a typical college athlete probably not thinking straight at the time. Guys like Vick and Mixon did what they did knowing how wrong it was. I'd be shocked if Mixon gets drafted IMHO. The NFL black balled Ray Rice after that video surfaced. Plus I'm against taking Big 12 conference offensive guys. That Conference doesn't know what the term defense means. 
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I think Mixon will be a lock to get drafted.  I think people are more likely to forgive the mistakes/stupid sheet of a 17-18 year old kid than that of a 27 year old Vick or a 30 year old Ray Rice.  What Mixon did was bad, no doubt but I don't put him in the same ballpark as Vick or Rice.  The only issue that may keep him from getting drafted would be if he still had issues after this incident or behavior issues that we don't know about.

DJackson10 said:
I'm not a huge Jeffery Fan and I think he'd cost too much in salary cap space. With the PED issue maybe his price drops but with Lane Johnson already hear do they risk that? There's also reports how John Fox HC has questioned his work ethic as well. Jeffrey there is availability questions (yes I stole that from Mike Mayock because I love the term) do to injuries and has never started 16 games since his rookie year. I find the dude talented but severely overrated do to his size and athleticism. The way people talk about him you;'d think he's a top 5 WR and he's not. Plus I'm not for signing a 30 yrs old to a big contract. We're better off signing lesser name guys who could maybe give you similar production in 3 yrs then jeffrey could at a cheaper cost as well. Even going back to SC I've never been overly impressed with him. 
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Jeffery is 26 now and would be 27 when the season starts.  He's only had injury issues the past 2 seasons as well and the 2 years prior averaged 87-1277-8.5.  I agree that hes not a top 5 WR but he has top 12 talent and would be about 50 spots better than our next WR lol. 

I don't worry about the PED issue at all either.  Or the money since Wentz isn't making anything and neither is any RB or other WR on the team.

 
We actually played every team in the NFC playoffs and the Steelers (11-5) in the AFC playoffs...that was 9 games of our schedule :shock:

 
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