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*Official 2017 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles* - Parade of Champions Down Broad Street! (2 Viewers)

I wouldn't call it wishful thinking considering he's the team's starting RB that just signed an extension last year.  I wouldn't necessarily object to the trading of him, but it doesn't seem to be smart in doing so considering all things.  And I don't get the "use him as much as he should" talk.  How much should he be used?  Ingram has yet to play a full season as a starter.  I think a timeshare is the best thing for him.  Again, it just doesn't make any sense to trade your starting RB for a backup center.  All this from the speculation of an Eagle's beat writer.

 
Throwing cold water maybe, but Kelce is exactly the kind of C who doesn't suit Drew Brees.  The Saints are unusual in that they've built their line from the inside out, rather than outside in, the way most teams do.  OT hasn't really been a priority for the Saints, they've concentrated their strength on the interior of the OL, because it allows Brees to move around in the pocket and find passing lanes, and he needs to do that because of his height.  He climbs the pocket really well and gets rid of the ball on time, so pressure coming around the corner isn't the same problem for him it is for some other QBs.  Since Brees isn't mobile, middle pressure is the one thing the Saints can't have.

Kelce's biggest weakness is his struggles with anchoring vs. power.  He gives more ground consistently than I think the Saints would be comfortable with.  He is awesome in the screen game though and that has been a big part of the Saints offense, but I think he'd cause some issues in the dropback passing game for them.  

Hopefully I'm wrong, because I'd do the deal, even if it included a 5th or so.  If they wanted more than that to go with Kelce, I'd just go with what we have.

 
My hot take: little guys are taking over in sports. Curry and Isaiah Thomas in NBA. Arviddson in the NHL. Altuve and Betts in MLB. Eagles are going to revolutionize the RB position with Pumphrey, the next breakout "undersized" star. :moneybag:

 
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The Noid said:
My hot take: little guys are taking over in sports. Curry and Isaiah Thomas in NBA. Arviddson in the NHL. Altuve and Betts in MLB. Eagles are going to revolutionize the RB position with Pumphrey, the next breakout "undersized" star. :moneybag:
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Curry is 6'3"! :P

 
modogg said:
and Isaiah Thomas Jr. blows too. Give me the 7+ Embiid and close to 7' Simmons over the little guys :fro:
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IT doesn't blow. I'd take it or Steph over simmons and embiid.  We'll maybe not it. But that's for the terribly under_utilized sixers thread. :P

 
Deamon said:
IT doesn't blow. I'd take it or Steph over simmons and embiid.  We'll maybe not it. But that's for the terribly under_utilized sixers thread. :P
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yeah, we can save this for next week, but IT is very good at flopping and getting all kinds of calls when he just runs into the lane. Pretty sure Boston won't sign him to a long-term contract and we will see that his numbers this year are a bit of an anomaly. Certainly doesn't blow, but I wouldn't be all excited if we had him either

 
The Noid said:
My hot take: little guys are taking over in sports. Curry and Isaiah Thomas in NBA. Arviddson in the NHL. Altuve and Betts in MLB. Eagles are going to revolutionize the RB position with Pumphrey, the next breakout "undersized" star. :moneybag:
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One thing I will say though is that 5'8 really isn't even that small. Sproles is 5'6".   And the average height of a rb in the nfl is just over 5'10". 

 
modogg said:
yeah, we can save this for next week, but IT is very good at flopping and getting all kinds of calls when he just runs into the lane. Pretty sure Boston won't sign him to a long-term contract and we will see that his numbers this year are a bit of an anomaly. Certainly doesn't blow, but I wouldn't be all excited if we had him either
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Dude travels almost every time down the court but there's other guys who flop worse then him. LeBron does it every time down the court. I wish the NBA would find a way to stop it somehow similar to how Soccer/Futboll has cut down on players who constantly dive. 

 
modogg said:
well that would be better, good if that is the case and little sloppy reporting on the first news about it
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McLane has had a few rocky reports over the past year or so and then that incident wth the Eagles in the Press box late in the year. He's gotten a bit sloppy 

 
I sure hope it's not a hold out. That would be a tricky one. On one hand he has played well in the 4-3 and on the other hand he is a 29 year old DE with 17 sacks over the past 3 season. I don't know what you pay for that 

 
If he does holdout he better be prepared to sit out for a long time.  He hasn't played well enough to warrant a new deal.  

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ash
Ash said:
Why change anything?  BG is good, but nothing more. He's paid fairly IMO.
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My point was that in order for us to even consider this there would have to be a benefit for us. I like him as a player but he's not the type/ caliber of player deserving of a hold out IMO. 

 
Here's the list with CBS Sports' prospect rank and NFL.com' Lance Zierlein's grades:

 PlayerCBS rank Zierlein grade 

Tyler Orlosky, C, West Virginia 95 5.2 

 Corey Clement, RB, Wisconsin196 5.2 

 Charles Walker, DT, Oklahoma225 5.2 

 Jerod Evans, QB, Virginia Tech257 5.2 

 Winston Craig, DT, Richmond324 N/A 

Cameron Johnston, P, Ohio State 376 5.0 

Randall Goforth, S, UCLA 402 N/A 

Greg Ward Jr., WR, Houston 633 4.9 

Jomal Wiltz, CB, Iowa State N/A N/A 

 Tre' Sullivan, S, ShepherdN/A

Our announced UDRFA's. 
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Not sure that the time to hold out is when the team has essentially just drafted your replacement.

Or maybe it's the last gasp that he will ever have.  Either way, it's ridiculous to think it will have an effect with this team that is so close to the cap anyway.  It would make a lot more sense for the story to be about being close to his son.

 
Philadelphia Eagles vice president of football operations Howie Roseman does not believe that Brandon Graham is disgruntled, even though the defensive end recently stopped taking part in the team's offseason training.

According to a league source, Graham left Philadelphia and has been back in his home state of Michigan since Monday, working with his longtime trainer Mike Barwis. The move was motivated in part by a desire to be close to his young family during the voluntary portion of the spring schedule. The plan as of Wednesday was for him to attend mandatory minicamp in June, the source said, though this appears to be a fluid situation.

"Brandon has been here all offseason prior to that, has had a tremendously positive attitude," Roseman said Thursday on 94.1 WIP in Philadelphia. "He had a great year last year, he's an important part of this team, and we fully expect that to happen in 2017 and going forward."

The Philadelphia Inquirer reported Wednesday that Graham is expected to skip organized team activities later this month, and perhaps mandatory minicamp as well, until the Eagles rework his contract. Skipping the minicamp could cost him upwards of $80,000.

Asked if he has given any indication that Graham is unhappy with his contract, Roseman responded, "He has personally not done that."
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So i know DJackson was one in here thinking that Hinkie was bad for the 6'ers, and i figure we might as well start. I was thinking of all sports discussions out there and almost all are built on premises of both sides having pro's and con's. Should the Eagles have drafted a RB in the 2nd or 3rd, should the Flyers trade Giroux, etc. etc. When discussing Hinkie, and i have tried to look at all sides, there honestly isn't really a good argument him. It is completely a 1-sided argument. 

I think what happens with people who are against Hinkie is that they are taking a look at it from what the Sixers put on the court, and simply looking at the present. This is exactly the opposite of how this should be looked at, and why it was always called a "process". 

To start, when Sam joined the team, they had 5-6 bloated contracts, ok talent, and had 1 1st round pick in the next 4 drafts. They were good enough to not be last in the league and were definitely not good enough to win any playoff match-ups. they may make the playoffs, but with no salary room for years to come and no draft picks they were truly F'd with no assets to move. 

I am sure people can argue every one of Sam's moves, and yes hindsight is wonderful that Poryzingis should have been drafted instead of Okafor (rumor about this is Sam when Poryzingis, but org. pushed him to draft Okafor. No idea the validity of that). But looking at the big picture with what the whole org. had when Sam came, and what the Sixers have when he left is about as night-and-day as you can get. They have draft picks out to wazoo, no bad contracts and options galore.

lol, i went into this with the energy to argue it, and it all vanished. There are tons of examples, and looking at the deals that brought the 1st round draft picks back, and Sam's ability to take advantage of organizations like the Lakers, Kings and Magic, is simply unmatched. Anybody else want to cite anymore specifics please do, but i don't think there is much to argue. This is literally one of the most one-sided arguments in sports i can think of, and the only arguments i have seen against Sam neglect to see the whole picture and really didn't follow what happened during his tenure

 
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Bigboy10182000 said:
My point was that in order for us to even consider this there would have to be a benefit for us. I like him as a player but he's not the type/ caliber of player deserving of a hold out IMO. 
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need2know said:
Nope.  I honestly would not care if he sat out.
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really surprised by these responses.  I personally really like BG.  Of course not who he was his first few years, but he's a key part of that defense right now.  Not that it's an absolute ranking, but PFF had him as thier #1 ranked 4-3 end in the league (out of 53 qualifiers).

 
modogg said:
So i know DJackson was one in here thinking that Hinkie was bad for the 6'ers, and i figure we might as well start. I was thinking of all sports discussions out there and almost all are built on premises of both sides having pro's and con's. Should the Eagles have drafted a RB in the 2nd or 3rd, should the Flyers trade Giroux, etc. etc. When discussing Hinkie, and i have tried to look at all sides, there honestly isn't really a good argument him. It is completely a 1-sided argument. 

I think what happens with people who are against Hinkie is that they are taking a look at it from what the Sixers put on the court, and simply looking at the present. This is exactly the opposite of how this should be looked at, and why it was always called a "process". 

To start, when Sam joined the team, they had 5-6 bloated contracts, ok talent, and had 1 1st round pick in the next 4 drafts. They were good enough to not be last in the league and were definitely not good enough to win any playoff match-ups. they may make the playoffs, but with no salary room for years to come and no draft picks they were truly F'd with no assets to move. 

I am sure people can argue every one of Sam's moves, and yes hindsight is wonderful that Poryzingis should have been drafted instead of Okafor (rumor about this is Sam when Poryzingis, but org. pushed him to draft Okafor. No idea the validity of that). But looking at the big picture with what the whole org. had when Sam came, and what the Sixers have when he left is about as night-and-day as you can get. They have draft picks out to wazoo, no bad contracts and options galore.

lol, i went into this with the energy to argue it, and it all vanished. There are tons of examples, and looking at the deals that brought the 1st round draft picks back, and Sam's ability to take advantage of organizations like the Lakers, Kings and Magic, is simply unmatched. Anybody else want to cite anymore specifics please do, but i don't think there is much to argue. This is literally one of the most one-sided arguments in sports i can think of, and the only arguments i have seen against Sam neglect to see the whole picture and really didn't follow what happened during his tenure
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In here.  Let's get this going already...

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/750024-official-2025-nba-champion-philadelphia-76ers-thread-and-visions-of-pick-swaps-and-ping-pong-balls-danced-in-their-heads/?page=3

 
Deamon said:
really surprised by these responses.  I personally really like BG.  Of course not who he was his first few years, but he's a key part of that defense right now.  Not that it's an absolute ranking, but PFF had him as thier #1 ranked 4-3 end in the league (out of 53 qualifiers).
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I owned him in an IDP last year and was highly frustrated because it seemed like every game he would get to the qb and disrupt a play 3-4 times a game but always just miss a sack.  Often he would be fighting through a double team and come within a split second of making a huge play, but not get the FF credit for all the hard work.

I remember thinking he was making a much, much larger contribution to the Eagles than he was to my fantasy team, and made a note that he had outperformed his FF stats.  I wonder how many people are just looking at the disappointing fantasy numbers in setting his value?

 
Arodin said:
I owned him in an IDP last year and was highly frustrated because it seemed like every game he would get to the qb and disrupt a play 3-4 times a game but always just miss a sack.  Often he would be fighting through a double team and come within a split second of making a huge play, but not get the FF credit for all the hard work.

I remember thinking he was making a much, much larger contribution to the Eagles than he was to my fantasy team, and made a note that he had outperformed his FF stats.  I wonder how many people are just looking at the disappointing fantasy numbers in setting his value?
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Graham has had to battle not being Earl Thomas, getting injured his rookie year after a promising start, the terrible Washburn years, moving to a 3-4 LB, and now back to a DE.  Honestly, he doesn't get enough credit in this town for what he's done.  Last year he was very disruptive, just couldn't finish enough plays.

 
Deamon said:
In here.  Let's get this going already...

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/750024-official-2025-nba-champion-philadelphia-76ers-thread-and-visions-of-pick-swaps-and-ping-pong-balls-danced-in-their-heads/?page=3
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nice i thought they took that forum down. But yeah, there is plenty of knowledge in there. I just think it is a real easy argument that Sam was a positive for the team and org. We could argue if Sam could have taken them to a championship, etc., and I completely think he could, but that at least is a discussion that can be had. Just seeing what he came into, and how he left the organization, I can't think of a more dramatic turnaround then Sam's 3 years here (or whatever it was)

 
So with all this Brandon Graham Talk I wanted to mention something a little funny. I know going back to that draft numerous people wanted Earl Thomas but there was a contingency of fans who wanted Jason Pierre Paul and according if I remember from our buddy DH he said his buddy who worked for the Eagles said Big Red was a JPP fan. Well I checked Graham and JPP stats together last year their usual of tackles, TFLs, FF and FR and sacks and hurries even INTs and such. I wish I could go around and check sites for more advanced stats though. Either way I checked their stats and numerous fans and media have always said how good JPP was. To my surprise despite missing time to injury and not producing right away BG is either in the lead, tied or very close in many categories too JPP to the point he might be just as good if not better then JPP. I know a lot of people wanted Earl Thomas but we probably don't have Jenkins/McCleod and I've always been gun shy on Sea Defensive guys after so many have failed else where it's hard to really say just how good these guys are really in a different system. Props to Sea for picking the right players for their scheme and all though. Either way I was surprised about what I found. Given Grahams great year and JPP missing time Graham probably has taken the lead or a bigger lead in some of those categories since I last checked. I don't think BG is a horrible player but I wouldn't call him a Superstar. I just think the Graham holdout talk is nothing more then it's now May and we need some sort of a Eagles story to get page clicks and all moment. Remember this is the time of year where many silly rumors end up being talked about more so then FA or before the Draft. Its that slow time between the Draft ending and actual training camp besides those few days of OTAs and Voluntary camp. 

 
Arodin said:
I owned him in an IDP last year and was highly frustrated because it seemed like every game he would get to the qb and disrupt a play 3-4 times a game but always just miss a sack.  Often he would be fighting through a double team and come within a split second of making a huge play, but not get the FF credit for all the hard work.

I remember thinking he was making a much, much larger contribution to the Eagles than he was to my fantasy team, and made a note that he had outperformed his FF stats.  I wonder how many people are just looking at the disappointing fantasy numbers in setting his value?
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Too many people get caught up in Sack totals when there's more too it for DL and pass rushers. Graham combine QB Knockdown, Hurrries and sacks I think PFF said he ranked #1. Any pressure or a knockdown on a QB can disrupt the QB and offensive rythym. Theres more to a pass rusher then a sack total but fans that aren't die hards like us or listen to too much Sports Talk and take them as gospel truth won't understand that. Plus after having a great poster in DH who had a friend involved with the Eagles FO in away until he left for Indy I realized 95% if not more of fans, sports writers and so called experts don't know what they are talking about. They throw SH** up on the wall and hope their's stinks more then everyone else. They are right they are right. Wrong no one goes after them for it as there's no accountability anymore in news coverage in any type of news coverage. 

 
I just heard Graham led the league with 80 combined sacks, hurries, hits and knockdowns. Pretty great really. But people only look at total sacks. Didn't Barwin have 14 two years ago? Would rather still have him than Graham? Doubtful.

 
Kwai Chang Caine said:
I just heard Graham led the league with 80 combined sacks, hurries, hits and knockdowns. Pretty great really. But people only look at total sacks. Didn't Barwin have 14 two years ago? Would rather still have him than Graham? Doubtful.
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exactly.  People saying he's 'meh' or not a great player are crazy.  He's a top 10 end in the league right now at the very least.  Counting only sacks, or stats from 2014 means nothing.  Really hope he isn't holding out.

 
Kwai Chang Caine said:
I just heard Graham led the league with 80 combined sacks, hurries, hits and knockdowns. Pretty great really. But people only look at total sacks. Didn't Barwin have 14 two years ago? Would rather still have him than Graham? Doubtful.
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It seems like reaching to make him look better than he is IMO. He's good but that's it. 

If he's as disruptive as perceived he's going to have way more sacks than 17 over 3 season playing next to a guy drawing constant double teams. 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
It seems like reaching to make him look better than he is IMO. He's good but that's it. 

If he's as disruptive as perceived he's going to have way more sacks than 17 over 3 season playing next to a guy drawing constant double teams. 
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I don't think that's really a reach.  Nor is PFF ranking him the #1 end in the league.  Even if they're small reaches, it's an even bigger reach the other way to say 'He's good but that's it".  We're not the one's negotiating deals, Howie is.  It's like whenever someone wants more money, people in here go into 'negotiation mode' and start downplaying how good he is as if they're talking to his agent.

The only year that matters to me is last year as he has improved each year.  Even if you don't see him as the 'top disruptive player" or 'top 4-3 end in the league" like others have claimed, to say he's only just good.... cmon.  He's CURRENTLY at the very least ONE of the top FIVE 4-3 ends in the nfl and that's being very conservative.

 
Had he been coming off a 12 sack season you wouldn't hear a word from me. 

And the second paragraph is what Philly fans often do and that overrate what we have.  When you think of Von Miller, Khalil Mack and JJ Watt you're actually putting Graham in that class.  That's madness. He's not even the focal point of our DL

I like him as a player. He's a good player. There's nothing wrong with being good but he's not worthy of a holdout IMO. 

 
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Kwai Chang Caine said:
I just heard Graham led the league with 80 combined sacks, hurries, hits and knockdowns. Pretty great really. But people only look at total sacks. Didn't Barwin have 14 two years ago? Would rather still have him than Graham? Doubtful.
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Graham is a good player and consistent, which is an underrated quality IMO.  You get great effort and solid production from BG week in & week out.  He makes plays but he just doesn't have that burst of closing speed that turns pressures & hits into sacks and that's the difference between a good rusher and an elite rusher.

He'll always get judged kind of harshly as a draft pick because the first half of his career was very patchy, with injuries and lack of production and I thought he was completely done when Chip came in and switched to a 3-4 but he made it work and has continued to improve and I give him credit for that.

If he hadn't had that knee injury and microfracture surgery early in his career, he might have started out better.  I think that took some of his speed / explosiveness away but he's figured out how to make it work with more of a power game than using speed & counters like a traditional pass rusher.  He just bull rushes like a beast.  :headbang:

 
The Noid said:
Single game tickets go on sale tomorrow @ 10am. 
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I'm gonna take my chances on Stuhub. Usually get a good deal. My Uncle has my Pop-Pops season tickets and won't be able to go to the Christmas Day game most likely as his family goes to his in laws and my aunts mom isn't in the best of healthy. Greek Orthodox and his father in law typical old fashion expects his wife to do everything for him and he's had issues himself. When the nurse is there or family he acts like he can't do anything himself and expects his wife who can barely get up without losing her breath to cook him dinner and all. Long story short they go up to Long Island for Christmas on Christmas day. I have nothing to do Christmas day maybe Grandmom comes to the house and I have a really good friend who's Jewish who has nothing better to do on Christmas anyway. Hoping I can get those tickets to the Raiders game and see if I can get one other myself through Stubhub. 

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
He doesn't seem like a scheme fit but it's nice to add a veteran bruiser until we see what we have. 
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I don't like the player personally, but he is a good weapon to add.  2 back set with him and Sproles / Pumphrey gives play action & check down options that need to be accounted for.

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
He doesn't seem like a scheme fit but it's nice to add a veteran bruiser until we see what we have. 
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I think he does. Look at the Patriots. Over the last few years they have never been a power run team but used Blount on many key drives. Seems to be a guy that keeps defenses off balance between Blount and the smaller backs. 

Another type of mismatch. If they stack their defense to stop Pumphrey then Blount should run all over them. Likewise if they stack to stop Blount.

 
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