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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (6 Viewers)

Mr. Ham said:
There is literally one Western power whose leaders routinely stand before its people and lie daily.  Want to guess who it is?  And for extra credit, want to take a stab at the term for that?  
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I’m not sure of the answer, but whatever it is I hope we can at least protect those leaders right to peacefully enjoy high end farm-to-table cuisine.  That’s what is really important.

 
snitwitch said:
i am absolutely riveted by this whole story. it's like watching a complex prestige HBO drama except IRL. the big reveal at the end of season 2 is going to knock your socks off! 
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I think all we've suspected about Trump will be proven accurate and Mueller will probably drop a whole bunch of more bombs nobody knows about.

The question is - What will be done if/when it's proven Trump is a corrupt traitor? That's the great unknown. We have a Republican Party that is now Trump's Party and a feckless Congress and possibly a soon to be comprised SCOTUS. Lotta things working against our democracy at the moment.

 
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A couple rather poignant sections from that piece:

“An open letter from Donald J. Trump on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves,” as Trump labeled it, launched angry populist charges against the allies that benefited from the umbrella of American military protection. “Why are these nations not paying the United States for the human lives and billions of dollars we are losing to protect their interests?”

Trump’s letter avoided the question of whom the U.S. was protecting those countries from. The primary answer, of course, was the Soviet Union. After World War II, the U.S. had created a liberal international order and underwritten its safety by maintaining the world’s strongest military. A central goal of Soviet, and later Russian, foreign policy was to split the U.S. from its allies.

The safest assumption is that it’s entirely coincidental that Trump launched a national campaign, with himself as spokesman, built around themes that dovetailed closely with Soviet foreign-policy goals shortly after his Moscow stay. Indeed, it seems slightly insane to contemplate the possibility that a secret relationship between Trump and Russia dates back this far. But it can’t be dismissed completely. How do you even think about the small but real chance — 10 percent? 20 percent? — that the president of the United States has been covertly influenced or personally compromised by a hostile foreign power for decades?
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But even if it is entirely coincidental, we still have a guy who is literally aligned with Putin on things like NATO. That is stunning imo.

At that point, it would have been strange if Russia didn’t help Trump. After all, Russians covertly support allied politicians abroad all the time. Putin naturally sees intelligence work as central to foreign policy, and his foreign policy is fundamentally threatened by democratic, socially progressive Western Europe. During his tenure, Russia has formed overt or covert ties to right-wing parties in France, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Greece, and Bulgaria. France’s right-wing party received an $11 million loan from Russia; its counterparts in Bulgaria and Greece were alleged (but not proved) to have taken funding under the table, too. More often, Russians intermingle financial dealings with political subterfuge in a complex web that appears superficially legitimate.
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And we know we had two willing parties on each side. We have hard evidence Trump's crew was very eager to work with the Russians. 

 
packersfan said:
I think all we've suspected about Trump will be proven accurate and Mueller will probably drop a whole bunch of more bombs nobody knows about.

The question is - What will be done if/when it's proven Trump is a corrupt traitor? That's the great unknown. We have a Republican Party that is now Trump's Party and a feckless Congress and possibly a soon to be comprised SCOTUS. Lotta things working against our democracy at the moment.
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Our system has been going off course for a long time now.  To much power rested in the hands of the executive branch, and then too much on the judicial - with the one body charged to actually write out laws having become an impotent bunch of self serving cowards.

In terms of policy, we have been taking a band aid approach for literally decades now (thanks AGAIN, boomers) from finance/economics, taxation, infrastructure, health care - I could go on.   

For a while I've thought we need to just dismantle a lot of the rules/laws and start over, because it's a convoluted web of flawed law on top of another flawed law... but things have generally gone well on the overall long term trajectory, so why completely start anew?

Now? Maybe it's enough where the could be some "electoral revolt" or something of such a scale, perhaps in tandem or caused by news that resonates with even 1/3 of the 30% who still vigorously support Trump... and then do we go to 13 justices? Are issues like Gerrymandering and abuses of power finally addressed?  Will so much be broken, that we won't look to just "fix" it, but rather start fresh in an overhaul type approach?

 
We all laughed when Louise Mensch said the entire GOP was compromised by Russia.

It's still funny.

But not quite as much as before.

Oh, and Ron Johnson is a repugnant human. 

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1 56m56 minutes ago

Republican Sen. Ron Johnson, back from the congressional trip to Moscow, is suggesting that Congress went too far in punishing Russia for meddling in the 2016 election. "The election interference ... is not the greatest threat to our democracy."

 
packersfan said:
Trump could shoot McConnell's wife in the fact right in front of him and McConnell would blame the Democrats for not blocking the bullet. 
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Obviously McConnell would think it’s no big deal. Lone wolf shooter. Probably mentally ill. Not much the feds can even do about it. 

 
packersfan said:
We all laughed when Louise Mensch said the entire GOP was compromised by Russia.

It's still funny.

But not quite as much as before.

Oh, and Ron Johnson is a repugnant human. 

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1 56m56 minutes ago

Republican Sen. Ron Johnson, back from the congressional trip to Moscow, is suggesting that Congress went too far in punishing Russia for meddling in the 2016 election. "The election interference ... is not the greatest threat to our democracy."
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I bet if you took "Louise Mensch conspiracy theory from 2016 becomes prophecy by 2018" you could have gotten whatever odds you wanted.  

 
Mr. Ham said:
I think you misunderstood the article.  Its premise is that Trump took a hard pull to positions that favored Russian interests with a populist and divisive personae that emerged in 1987, in lockstep with a visit to Moscow.  It is reasonable given the relationship with the Soviets that began that year, that one explanation is that something could have influenced him in that direction.  Given a broader history of suspicious dealings he has lied about, and the fact the Soviet tradecraft relied on an asset knowing too late that they had crossed too many lines to safely return (and the fact that it tended to entrap the greedy, lascivious and egotistical), it’s a worthy topic of discussion when placed in context and with adequate caveats, which were given.
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I cannot like this enough. How this isn’t discussed more in general is fairly baffling. Now maybe it is nothing, but it is worth discussing certainly.

 
randall146 said:
OMFG these people
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The enablers and collaborators who still support them, including pushing clear propaganda, are hardly much better. Traitors, all of them. 

RUSSIAN FREAKIN' PROPOGANDA (I mean, RUSSIA - it still boggles my mind how many faux patriots are willing to allow this to happen to us.. by freakin Russia of all countries. The UnAmericans)

 
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Koya said:
The enablers and collaborators who still support them, including pushing clear propaganda, are hardly much better. Traitors, all of them. 

RUSSIAN FREAKIN' PROPOGANDA (I mean, RUSSIA - it still boggles my mind how many faux patriots are willing to allow this to happen to us.. by freakin Russia of all countries. The UnAmericans)
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It's the only description left for them at this point. 

 
packersfan said:
We all laughed when Louise Mensch said the entire GOP was compromised by Russia.

It's still funny.

But not quite as much as before.

Oh, and Ron Johnson is a repugnant human. 

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1 56m56 minutes ago

Republican Sen. Ron Johnson, back from the congressional trip to Moscow, is suggesting that Congress went too far in punishing Russia for meddling in the 2016 election. "The election interference ... is not the greatest threat to our democracy."
Click to expand...
These are not the droids you're looking for.

 
Would it shock anyone if it turned out the GOP delegation really went to Russia to explain what was going to happen if the Dems win bigly this fall?  And, how, it might be in Russia's best interest to see that it does not happen?

 
packersfan said:
We all laughed when Louise Mensch said the entire GOP was compromised by Russia.

It's still funny.

But not quite as much as before.

Oh, and Ron Johnson is a repugnant human. 

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1 56m56 minutes ago

Republican Sen. Ron Johnson, back from the congressional trip to Moscow, is suggesting that Congress went too far in punishing Russia for meddling in the 2016 election. "The election interference ... is not the greatest threat to our democracy."
Click to expand...
Just setting it up for Trump to agree to remove the sanctions while they pretend it’s good for the country. 

 
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