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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn


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45 minutes ago, Banger said:

KEEP HOPE ALIVE!!!  these poor traitors are in for a rude awakening as their constantly shifting narrative continues to evaporate....

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/muellers-sentencing-memo-doesnt-mean-flynn-has-turned-on-trump-in-fact-his-forthrightness-shines-through

I think this answers your question above. I watched some Hannity (yes) and after it was explained to him that 1. Flynn was getting a sweetheart deal for basically sec. 1001 lying, and 2. OSC had laid out - and redacted because they’re ongoing - three separate investigations, he proceeded to laser focus on 1 (because heh ‘process crime’ yall) and totally ignore 2 while praising Flynn and lamenting the terrible things done to him. 

My thought was, what are these people going to do if/when Flynn’s testimony lands at Trump’s door? I really don’t know. It’s a short term strategy, it works *now. But reality is Flynn, unlike Cohen, was a lynchpin in validating Trump’s America First, anti-terrorist, National Security (faux) bona fides. He does matter to the Trump motif and myth (such that it exists for Trumpites, which it does). Cohen did not.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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13 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I think this answers your question above. I watched some Hannity (yes) and after it was explained to him that 1. Flynn was getting a sweetheart deal for basically sec. 1001 lying, and 2. OSC had laid out - and redacted because they’re ongoing - three separate investigations, he proceeded to laser focus on 1 (because heh ‘process crime’ yall) and totally ignore 2 while praising Flynn and lamenting the terrible things done to him. 

My thought was, what are these people going to do if/when Flynn’s testimony lands at Trump’s door? I really don’t know. It’s a short term strategy, it works *now. But reality is Flynn, unlike Cohen, was a lynchpin in validating Trump’s America First, anti-terrorist, National Security (faux) bona fides. He does matter to the Trump motif and myth (such that it exists for Trumpites, which it does). Cohen did not.

Easy, Flynn and anybody corroborating his testimony are lying. All physical evidence is fake. 

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3 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1070681077960900608?s=21

* 8 days ago, @guardian "reported" Manafort visited Assange 3 times in the Embassy.

* 2 days later, @politico published an ex-CIA agent using a fake name claiming Putin may have tricked them into it

* @guardian refuses to answer any questions

* Why don't people trust media?

Why don't you hold the President of the United States to the same standard?

As the leader of the free world, aren't his lies a lot more damaging?

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Just now, ren hoek said:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1070681077960900608?s=21

* 8 days ago, @guardian "reported" Manafort visited Assange 3 times in the Embassy.

* 2 days later, @politico published an ex-CIA agent using a fake name claiming Putin may have tricked them into it

* @guardian refuses to answer any questions

* Why don't people trust media? 

The Guardian report was immediately called into question, both here and more broadly, including by other media.  There's a reason they're not thought of as highly as other outlets. Using this example to paint the "media" with a broad brush is just flat-out dishonest. And the fact that Greenwald is doing the work of aspiring fascists in pushing this "never trust the media!" claptrap without even acknowledging that he's also "the media" is telling.

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39 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Ok let’s say I agree, and I do that Trumpites are fully capable of that and even likely to do just that. But to Bangers point why don’t they just do that now? 

They don't want to play it if they don't have to and nobody knows exactly what is in the report yet. 

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1 hour ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

My thought was, what are these people going to do if/when Flynn’s testimony lands at Trump’s door? I really don’t know. It’s a short term strategy, it works *now. But reality is Flynn, unlike Cohen, was a lynchpin in validating Trump’s America First, anti-terrorist, National Security (faux) bona fides. He does matter to the Trump motif and myth (such that it exists for Trumpites, which it does). Cohen did not.

It's becoming clearer everyday to anyone who's processing facts and lives in reality that this is certainly going to land squarely on Trump's door.  What happens from there depends on a number of factors.  State TV/R's are doing their best to deflect / distort / ignore but like you said it's now a short term strategy that I believe will evaporate and make them all look like fools for buying the con.  With the number of active investigations (that we now know about) he's going to be hit from every angle nearly all at once.  

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14 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

The Guardian report was immediately called into question, both here and more broadly, including by other media.  There's a reason they're not thought of as highly as other outlets. Using this example to paint the "media" with a broad brush is just flat-out dishonest. And the fact that Greenwald is doing the work of aspiring fascists in pushing this "never trust the media!" claptrap without even acknowledging that he's also "the media" is telling.

It was.  I know you and a few others were skeptical of it.  It’s true though.  Reporting on this has been atrocious.  Like the propornot thing and Vermont electrical grid story (among tons of others).  Then there was their work in the runup to the Iraq War.  

When Greenwald says the ‘media,’ he’s obviously referring not to himself but to corporate press and russiagate grifters that push the self-fulfilling conspiracy theory.  No one’s confusing Glenn Greenwald with Maddow’s half-baked conspiracy program.  

Greenwald isn’t the one helping aspiring fascists.  Establishment press helps Trump by pushing phony narratives and getting the facts wrong, almost always in the same direction.  Trump’s shots against the media land at least in large part because of their fake reporting.  

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1 minute ago, ren hoek said:

It was.  I know you and a few others were skeptical of it.  It’s true though.  Reporting on this has been atrocious.  Like the propornot thing and Vermont electrical grid story (among tons of others).  Then there was their work in the runup to the Iraq War.  

When Greenwald says the ‘media,’ he’s obviously referring not to himself but to corporate press and russiagate grifters that push the self-fulfilling conspiracy theory.  No one’s confusing Glenn Greenwald with Maddow’s half-baked conspiracy program.  

Greenwald isn’t the one helping aspiring fascists.  Establishment press helps Trump by pushing phony narratives and getting the facts wrong, almost always in the same direction.  Trump’s shots against the media land at least in large part because of their fake reporting.  

Irrationally undermining confidence in news media helps aspiring fascists. To the extent Greeenwald is doing that he's helping them. 

The news media is gonna make mistakes sometimes. That's always been the case and it always will be.  I actually think the system worked well here- a bit of skepticism was warranted, and that skepticism spread quickly and ultimately forced the Guardian into editorial changes to the story.

As for the establishment press pushing phony narratives and getting facts wrong "almost always in the same direction," I would say that I strongly disagree.

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14 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Irrationally undermining confidence in news media helps aspiring fascists. To the extent Greeenwald is doing that he's helping them. 

The news media is gonna make mistakes sometimes. That's always been the case and it always will be.  I actually think the system worked well here- a bit of skepticism was warranted, and that skepticism spread quickly and ultimately forced the Guardian into editorial changes to the story.

As for the establishment press pushing phony narratives and getting facts wrong "almost always in the same direction," I would say that I strongly disagree.

look at all the good reporting over the past week...500 Saudi hotel rooms, unreal Eppstein article, North Carolina absentee vote fraud and tons of other stories.  People take the press for granted and love to point out the .1% when they are wrong, don't get the facts straight or report too quickly. 

It fits Trump's narrative to call everything fake because he lies about everything and doesn't want people to know the truth about him, his business, the real Russia story, his charity, his taxes, his real wealth or anything else.   

Edited by Banger
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17 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

When Greenwald says the ‘media,’ he’s obviously referring not to himself but to corporate press and russiagate grifters that push the self-fulfilling conspiracy theory.  

Aside from the fact that GG is corporate, and even dare I say ‘mainstream’ (because that’s certainly where Assange found him), he’s *involved in the Assange story. He’s compromised- and I don’t mean that in a pejorative sense. He is a legitimate reporter and there is good reporting in The Intercept. Problem is he helped platform Assange. He can’t get around that. Here he’s chasing The Guardian But because they don’t unfurl their sources and their grist for him they’re hiding something? He’s chasing this story because *if (if) Assange is indeed a Russian tool well guess what that makes him.

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5 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

According to this Atlantic piece, which ren probably doesn't trust, there is no plan in the White House for addressing the specific issues raised by the Mueller investigation. Basically, the "plan" is for Trump to take charge and wing it at the appropriate time.

shocker....it's easy to attack / spin / ignore all these facts as they emerge over long periods of time but when the entire puzzle is put together and they have sworn testimony, phone intercepts, emails, texts from dozens of people yelling FAKE NEWS, No COLLUSION, WITCH HUNT isn't a defense.   

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23 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Aside from the fact that GG is corporate, and even dare I say ‘mainstream’ (because that’s certainly where Assange found him), he’s *involved in the Assange story. He’s compromised- and I don’t mean that in a pejorative sense. He is a legitimate reporter and there is good reporting in The Intercept. Problem is he helped platform Assange. He can’t get around that. Here he’s chasing The Guardian But because they don’t unfurl their sources and their grist for him they’re hiding something? He’s chasing this story because *if (if) Assange is indeed a Russian tool well guess what that makes him.

I don’t believe Assange and Greenwald ever collaborated on anything.  Greenwald published the Snowden leaks, and Assange advised Snowden to escape to Russia.  I don’t think it makes Greenwald compromised moreso than any other outlet that opines on Wikileaks or works with a political figure.  

The Intercept isn’t all that great beyond Greenwald and Scahill.  Robert Mackey is a complete hack.  Pierre Omidyar gives money to Bill Kristol.  It is definitely owned by a billionaire.  

But I think their work is much more subversive and critical than outlets like CNN, ABC, CBS.  I don’t think it’s unfair to say there’s a huge disparity between The Intercept and MSM.  You don’t have to look any further than their coverage of George HW Bush to see that.  

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Russia + NRA + Trump

mike spies‏Verified account @mikespiesnyc

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Please read my latest investigation, published in partnership with Mother Jones: Documents Point to Illegal Campaign Coordination Between Trump and NRA: https://www.thetrace.org/2018/12/trump-nra-campaign-coordination/ … via @teamtrace

 

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/12/trump-nra-campaign-coordination/

Edited by Banger
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1 hour ago, roadkill1292 said:

According to this Atlantic piece, which ren probably doesn't trust, there is no plan in the White House for addressing the specific issues raised by the Mueller investigation. Basically, the "plan" is for Trump to take charge and wing it at the appropriate time.

Different issue here but the opening passage of that article has been getting a lot of attention:

Quote

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s prosecutors have told defense lawyers in recent weeks that they are “tying up loose ends” in their investigation, providing the clearest clues yet that the long-running probe into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election may be coming to its climax, potentially in the next few weeks, according to multiple sources close to the matter.

I just don't buy that at all. Sounds like it's coming from defense attorneys, and "tying up loose ends" could mean almost anything in the context of prosecutors saying it to defense attorneys. Could just be about their client, could be a specific part of the investigation that involves their client, could be the Trump-land lawyers trying to reassure the big guy that this will all be over soon because that's what he wants to hear just like they did last year around this time. Could be basically anything.

And when you see the Flynn sentencing memo and realize: (1) how much is still unknown and the subject of active investigations and (2) how significant those unknown matters must be for Mueller to go easy on someone who committed crimes as bad as Flynn's (particularly the Turkey stuff)? It seems impossible that this would all wrap up in a matter of weeks.

Maybe we're heading for a blockbuster Season 2 Finale type deal.  Maybe Stone and/or Kushner and/or Don Jr get indicted before new years, and maybe the Manafort memo tomorrow is a big reveal.  Maybe they even give a report on the so-called "process crimes" to Congress soon.  But I think we've got a loooong way to go before the Series Finale. Who knows.

 

Edited by TobiasFunke
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5 minutes ago, Banger said:

Russia + NRA + Trump

mike spies‏Verified account @mikespiesnyc

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Please read my latest investigation, published in partnership with Mother Jones: Documents Point to Illegal Campaign Coordination Between Trump and NRA: https://www.thetrace.org/2018/12/trump-nra-campaign-coordination/ … via @teamtrace

 

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/12/trump-nra-campaign-coordination/

That’s just silly, I mean it’s not like the NRA accepts contributions it uses for political action from Russian ol.... 

 

 

Ohhhhhhhh.

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

That’s just silly, I mean it’s not like the NRA accepts contributions it uses for political action from Russian ol.... 

 

 

Ohhhhhhhh.

this NRA + Torshin + Butina angle is coming to a head as well.  Butina sounds like she's a day away from becoming yet another cooperating witness in the ever expanding Russia hoax.  :popcorn:

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5 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The redactions alone suggest the Flynn piece is not tying up soon. There are stories about the Podesta/Mercury and Turkey cases moving forward though.

Or as Fox News puts it, "an investigation referred to Justice Department prosecutors by Special Counsel Robert Mueller earlier this year into possible criminal activity by Clinton-linked Washington insider Tony Podesta and former Obama White House Counsel Greg Craig is heating up."

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10 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Different issue here but the opening passage of that article has been getting a lot of attention:

I just don't buy that at all. Sounds like it's coming from defense attorneys, and "tying up loose ends" could mean almost anything in the context of prosecutors saying it to defense attorneys. Could just be about their client, could be a specific part of the investigation that involves their client, could be the Trump-land lawyers trying to reassure the big guy that this will all be over soon because that's what he wants to hear just like they did last year around this time. Could be basically anything.

And when you see the Flynn sentencing memo and realize: (1) how much is still unknown and the subject of active investigations and (2) how significant those unknown matters must be for Mueller to go easy on someone who committed crimes as bad as Flynn's (particularly the Turkey stuff)? It seems impossible that this would all wrap up in a matter of weeks.

Maybe we're heading for a blockbuster Season 2 Finale type deal.  Maybe Stone and/or Kushner and/or Don Jr get indicted before new years, and maybe the Manafort memo tomorrow is a big reveal.  Maybe they even give a report on the so-called "process crimes" to Congress soon.  But I think we've got a loooong way to go before the Series Finale. Who knows.

 

Imagine Don Jr getting indicted?  I'd take the day off of work just to watch Trump meltdown on Twitter.  Him realizing that his crimes have sunk his children would be awesome to witness.

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In potential blow to Paul Manafort, the Supreme Court is unlikely to change the double jeopardy rule.

A presidential pardon could keep Manafort out of federal prison, but it would not free him from being prosecuted on similar state charges.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/potential-blow-manafort-supreme-court-unlikely-change-double-jeopardy-rule-n944891

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Just now, JuniorNB said:

Imagine Don Jr getting indicted?  I'd take the day off of work just to watch Trump meltdown on Twitter.  Him realizing that his crimes have sunk his children would be awesome to witness.

Unless it was Ivanka, I don't think he'd care.  

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4 minutes ago, squistion said:

In potential blow to Paul Manafort, the Supreme Court is unlikely to change the double jeopardy rule.

A presidential pardon could keep Manafort out of federal prison, but it would not free him from being prosecuted on similar state charges.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/potential-blow-manafort-supreme-court-unlikely-change-double-jeopardy-rule-n944891

"Paul, the best I can do is make sure you end up in state prison instead of federal prison" is not likely to be a welcome phone call.

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30 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

"Paul, the best I can do is make sure you end up in state prison instead of federal prison" is not likely to be a welcome phone call.

This may be best asked to the historians here - but when was the last time someone who was issued a Presidential Pardon was later tried and convicted for state crimes arising out of the same conduct?

Has it ever happened?

 

Seems unlikely to happen here either.

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Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Trump and the NRA used the same consultants to spearhead TV ad blitzes during the '16 election, possibly in violation of federal law, MoJo reports. "This is very strong evidence, if not proof, of illegal coordination," said an ex-FEC general counsel.

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1 minute ago, Banger said:

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Trump and the NRA used the same consultants to spearhead TV ad blitzes during the '16 election, possibly in violation of federal law, MoJo reports. "This is very strong evidence, if not proof, of illegal coordination," said an ex-FEC general counsel.

I'm losing track of the federal laws this guy has broken. What are we up to now? 30?  35?   Yes folks, he's STILL our President.

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45 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:
48 minutes ago, Banger said:

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Trump and the NRA used the same consultants to spearhead TV ad blitzes during the '16 election, possibly in violation of federal law, MoJo reports. "This is very strong evidence, if not proof, of illegal coordination," said an ex-FEC general counsel.

I'm losing track of the federal laws this guy has broken. What are we up to now? 30?  35?   Yes folks, he's STILL our President.

Right, so what. They break all kinds of federal laws. Big deal.

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55 minutes ago, Banger said:

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Trump and the NRA used the same consultants to spearhead TV ad blitzes during the '16 election, possibly in violation of federal law, MoJo reports. "This is very strong evidence, if not proof, of illegal coordination," said an ex-FEC general counsel.

Remind me again - who provided a lot of money to the NRA in 2016?

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7 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Irrationally undermining confidence in news media helps aspiring fascists. To the extent Greeenwald is doing that he's helping them. 

The news media is gonna make mistakes sometimes. That's always been the case and it always will be.  I actually think the system worked well here- a bit of skepticism was warranted, and that skepticism spread quickly and ultimately forced the Guardian into editorial changes to the story.

As for the establishment press pushing phony narratives and getting facts wrong "almost always in the same direction," I would say that I strongly disagree.

The ones undermining confidence in the media, are the media themselves, not those calling them out for it.

peoeple aren’t mistrusting the media because somebody told them to mistrust the media. People are weighing the messages delivered by the media against reality and making up their own minds.

Edited by Rove!
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Also, if Flynn did all that, he shroud do time behind bars. I don't care if he flipped and takes down DJT.  He acted poorly on many occasions, only trying to enrich himself at the cost of doing damage to the country and her allies.

If you can do time for smoking a joint, then this guy can do time for being his efforts to undermine this country.

Edited by The Z Machine
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Trump is going to sprain a ligament - someone definitely peed in his corn flakes this morning:

 

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 58m58 minutes ago

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Robert Mueller and Leakin’ Lyin’ James Comey are Best Friends, just one of many Mueller Conflicts of Interest. And bye the way, wasn’t the woman in charge of prosecuting Jerome Corsi (who I do not know) in charge of “legal” at the corrupt Clinton Foundation? A total Witch Hunt...

 

....Will Robert Mueller’s big time conflicts of interest be listed at the top of his Republicans only Report. Will Andrew Weissman’s horrible and vicious prosecutorial past be listed in the Report. He wrongly destroyed people’s lives, took down great companies, only to be........

 

.....overturned, 9-0, in the United States Supreme Court. Doing same thing to people now. Will all of the substantial & many contributions made by the 17 Angry Democrats to the Campaign of Crooked Hillary be listed in top of Report. Will the people that worked for the Clinton....

 

....Foundation be listed at the top of the Report? Will the scathing document written about Lyin’ James Comey, by the man in charge of the case, Rod Rosenstein (who also signed the FISA Warrant), be a big part of the Report? Isn’t Rod therefore totally conflicted? Will all of....

 

...the lying and leaking by the people doing the Report, & also Bruce Ohr (and his lovely wife Molly), Comey, Brennan, Clapper, & all of the many fired people of the FBI, be listed in the Report? Will the corruption within the DNC & Clinton Campaign be exposed?..And so much more!

 

 

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