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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter whoknew
- Start date
dkp993
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
James Daulton
Footballguy
Who's left who will vote for this clearly corrupt, infantile train wreck in 2020? His twitter meltdown on Tillerson is enough to disqualify him from holding the office imho. And how many times does the country need to be told that he doesn't read, isn't interested in details, isn't real smart, and flies by the seat of his pants before we all remember that those are all horrible qualities in a president?
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msommer
Footballguy
53 senators and approx 200 members of the House of Representatives.
And come 2020 approx 60 million Americans.
Come on JD, now you made me depressed
James Daulton
Footballguy
I thin we'll see a decent drop from the 60M. Remember he got a lot of never Hillary voters and voters who thought they'd give him a chance. No way the majority of those people would vote for him now. I think you have to be a card carrying member of the cult in order to still support him.
To me - the most damning thing that was in the memos is something(s) that was not in the memos.
Page 5: "The evidence of the above includes electronic communications (including detailed descriptions I[blank] draft [blank] and travel records."
Mueller has got a ton of paper trail, and surveillance evidence. Lordy, there are tapes....
Page 5: "The evidence of the above includes electronic communications (including detailed descriptions I[blank] draft [blank] and travel records."
Mueller has got a ton of paper trail, and surveillance evidence. Lordy, there are tapes....
timschochet
Footballguy
I listened to some of Sean Hannity from last night. Even for him, it was especially ridiculous. His arguments:
1. Cohen’s original statement was that he paid the women himself without Trump’s knowledge. When Trump found out about it, he paid Cohen back, which Hannity claims is not illegal. Now Cohen says Trump knew and authorized the payments, but since Cohen is a liar we don’t know what the truth is and we can’t assume the second version is true. (Of course this absurd line ignores the fact that it defies all logic that Cohen would make these payments on his own without Trump’s knowledge: how would he even know who these women were?)
2. None of this has anything to do with collusion or Russia. It’s all about sex, and the public won’t care. In fact if the Democrats overreach Trump's popularity will go up just as it did with Bill Clinton. (First off this is false, Hannity knows it’s false; he’s completely ignoring the part of the memos that had to do with Russia. Obviously he thinks his audience is stupid, and given his consistently high ratings, he is probably right about that. Second, even if this were only about Cohen’s payments to the women, the Lewinsky analogy doesn’t hold: if Bill Clinton had been caught paying Monica Lewinsky cash to keep silent prior to his election, I think he would have been removed from office. That is a serious crime. Finally, given Hannity’s attacks on Clinton during the Lewinsky saga, his current dismissal of this situation as “all about sex” is especially hypocritical.)
1. Cohen’s original statement was that he paid the women himself without Trump’s knowledge. When Trump found out about it, he paid Cohen back, which Hannity claims is not illegal. Now Cohen says Trump knew and authorized the payments, but since Cohen is a liar we don’t know what the truth is and we can’t assume the second version is true. (Of course this absurd line ignores the fact that it defies all logic that Cohen would make these payments on his own without Trump’s knowledge: how would he even know who these women were?)
2. None of this has anything to do with collusion or Russia. It’s all about sex, and the public won’t care. In fact if the Democrats overreach Trump's popularity will go up just as it did with Bill Clinton. (First off this is false, Hannity knows it’s false; he’s completely ignoring the part of the memos that had to do with Russia. Obviously he thinks his audience is stupid, and given his consistently high ratings, he is probably right about that. Second, even if this were only about Cohen’s payments to the women, the Lewinsky analogy doesn’t hold: if Bill Clinton had been caught paying Monica Lewinsky cash to keep silent prior to his election, I think he would have been removed from office. That is a serious crime. Finally, given Hannity’s attacks on Clinton during the Lewinsky saga, his current dismissal of this situation as “all about sex” is especially hypocritical.)
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Yes they are felonies but these GOP Senators will look at as slap on the wrist type crimes which usually result in cash penalties . Personally I think the witness tampering with Manafort, obstruction of justice, collusion that will be reinforced in future indictments in the final Mueller report would more likely be what will be required for them to turn on the President. I will be monitoring remarks from Senators like Romney, Kennedy, Graham, Collins, expecting the Mueller probe to continue on into 2019.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
- CSM
What gets me is even if you took away every claim of kompromat and quid pro quo this idea of this deal even if in the future when he leaves the WH must even now be a powerful draw for Trump. The guy even opened up a hotel in the capital on the eve of his presidency, he sees the office as a vehicle for his wealth not a barrier to it.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I'm starting to think this administration hasn't been entirely truthful.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
What I also don’t understand about this idea, whether it comes from this Kervick guy or York or Fox is, yes yes yes campaign finance fraud is totally believable, because Trump is obviously avaricious. And Trump would totally shuttle money around to cover up sexual sordidness. But no no no he would never do it for profiteering in Russia and he would never be caught up in kompromat. I don’t get the imaginary line drawing there, especially as it requires supposing some sort of internal set of mores that Trump clearly doesn’t possess.
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Zow
Footballguy
As somebody who has written his fair share of these, I'm impressed by the SDNY memorandum and want to just say that it's very well written. I anticipate the Court giving it significant weight. There's some interesting dichotomy between this memo and the SC's memo which leads me to conclude that the SC's memo was some specific consideration to Cohen.
the moops
Footballguy
There definitely is a slim chance, that many of the 22 republican senators up for re-election see the writing on the wall, and figure out that their best chance of winning is to run away from Trump. Unlikely, but if there are impeachment hearings, and a lot of the redacted stuff in these memos becomes public knowledge, and it is even more clear than it is today that Trump committed serious crimes, then...
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
It never used to mean that.
collusion is a poor substitute for “conspiracy”
collude = conspire
Banger
Footballguy
I have to think there was coordination of lies / obstruction of justice and then Mueller waited for Trump to turn in his answers before he launched this phase. I’d guess that Trump coordinated lies with Manafort and the Special Counsel sat back knowing all along.
Guiliani and others could be in a lot of trouble here if they coordinated lies. Conspiracy, obstruction of justice and nothing is privileged between the attorneys.
Zow
Footballguy
Stupid watergate.
George Papa's wife caught using a burner twitter account to talk about herself.
https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1071266931825696768
The Commish
Footballguy
That part is true. There's a whole group of people who have tried really really really really really hard to make this whole thing JUST about collusion. They've tried to cram everything into that lens and force people to see it only from that perspective. I can't say that's not one of the smartest approaches out of all their options. The problem of course is that we know the investigation was opened to investigate Russia's part in meddling in our elections AND whether or not individuals from his campaign worked with Russia in a coordinated effort. Then the broad qualifier at the end is "as well as any other issues that arise from that investigation".
To anyone with a brain, they understand that means financial dealings, actual russian interference, contact during transition, obstruction issues, coordination with russia etc. Those are all firmly in the purview of the investigation without having to make any sort of stretches to include them. It's in Hannity's best interest to try and ignore everything but the one aspect that will probably never stick directly to Trump and will probably end up (at best) as, "this happened but Trump was so clueless about the details of anything going on it's clear he didn't pull the strings here". So that's what he's doing.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
If? The footnotes in both the Manafort and Cohen filings clearly are laying the foundation for obstruction.
joffer
Footballguy
that’s just like when I forget to log out of my Weebs account.
George Papa's wife caught using a burner twitter account to talk about herself.
https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1071266931825696768
Rirruto
Footballguy
Right. The memo actually doesn't even allege that Cohen told Trump about that particular offered meeting. It's sizzly because the words synergy and collusion basically mean the same thing, and it shows that people with purported ties with the Russian government were offering to help Trump.
I actually think that the memo laying out that Cohen turned the meeting down because he already felt like he had a pipeline into the Russian government is worse than the meeting itself being offered when we know there were several meetings offered and that at least the so-called Trump Tower meeting was actually executed.
But synergy is funny, so it's the headline.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
They're hungover from celebrating Trump's complete vindication yesterday. "Thank you."
timschochet
Footballguy
Something really pissed me off this morning, in a very personal way. I read that Michael Cohen, is his plea for no jail time to the court, argued that his father is a Holocaust survivor, and could not handle the emotional cost of seeing his son in prison.
My father is a Holocaust survivor as well; it’s never been something that I’ve tried to use to my advantage. Frankly it’s slimy and outrageous. Sorry for the interruption but this really made me angry.
My father is a Holocaust survivor as well; it’s never been something that I’ve tried to use to my advantage. Frankly it’s slimy and outrageous. Sorry for the interruption but this really made me angry.
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Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
I bet she's a demon in the sack.
George Papa's wife caught using a burner twitter account to talk about herself.
https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1071266931825696768
That one guy
Footballguy
You weren’t expecting a complete about face toward contriteness after a life of crime, were you?
It is slimy and I’m glad he will be spending time in prison. I hope to see all of these traitors spend some time in there for their roles no matter how much they cooperate.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Mueller: "Collusion, collusion..." too political. :grabs Thesaurus:
"conspiracy"... hmmm... not ready to tip off the sealed indictments just yet. :drinks covfefe:
"collaboration" ... still too crime-y. :grabs Thesaurus again:
"synergy: benefits resulting from combining two different groups, people, objects or processes." Bingo!
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes, it's being revealed that Mueller has proof of Trump's coordination of Russian collusion and illegal use of campaign funds, but did you know a few black guys kneel during the national anthem??!?
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Best that the trolling stays in that thread. Mucks up then information that comes fast at times in here.
timschochet
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
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If that’s real, Twitter is going to get some big backlash. Putting anti-vax and Scientology in there is not gonna go well for them.
squistion
Footballguy
No, rock and Henry moved on from that esoteric discussion that I couldn't follow to talking a recent shooting by a LEO. Meanwhile Stealthy is being Stealthy.
squistion
Footballguy
In the comments some people claim this is a hoax and they can't find it in the Twitter user policies, so I don't know if it is real or not.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Went to Ani's church last night to see A John Waters Christmas, his one-man standup show. He had some, uh, "choice words" for the president, but no one in the audience seemed to mind. Knows how to play to his audience, I guess.
