Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn


whoknew

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Probably best to shift to the campaign finance violation, and let the dark foreign conspiracy stuff slink away into the memory hole.  

Byron York just said this on Fox. They don’t redact for campaign finance. Plus what else is there to say on that front. Cohen has already named Trump as a principle, that book is written, no report necessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Probably best to shift to the campaign finance violation, and let the dark foreign conspiracy stuff slink away into the memory hole.  

 

2 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Byron York just said this on Fox. They don’t redact for campaign finance. Plus what else is there to say on that front. Cohen has already named Trump as a principle, that book is written, no report necessary.

Owned....sheesh ren....thought you were better than that

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Ah.  Didn’t read the Manafort filing, eh?

Or the Mueller filing on Cohen. Yikes. Talk about a turrible take.

Edit: This is a day where it is :confirmed: that Trump was briefed and aware and directing Cohen to set up meetings/deals with Russians, including Russians promising "synergy" well into the campaign. A campaign it's also already confirmed they interfered in. Not exactly a day I'd celebrate as a no collusion day.

Edited by Rirruto
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really, if you're a Trump guy, your last hill is that yes there was attempted collusion and yes Trump knew about it, but as far as we know none of the collusion took place.

I think an obvious rejoinder would be that Mueller only provided as much information as was fit for public consumption, so there were multiple potential meetings that didn't ultimately take place referenced because anything else would have to be redacted. Furthermore, we already know there were meetings between KGB recruiters and senior officials of the Trump campaign, but you could at least hold on to the fact that we don't know for sure--at least publicly--that any collusion took place yet.

But today at least stands for the day that we know there was attempted collusion that Trump knew about. And also he is implicated in felonies that we already knew he committed. We're already way further here than we ever were on Nixon. I still don't think Tricky Dicky can be directly tied to the burglaries. Trump can be directly tied the felonies. If there is a prosecutor worth his salt, he will be indicted within weeks of exiting the White House.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Rirruto said:

Really, if you're a Trump guy, your last hill is that yes there was attempted collusion and yes Trump knew about it, but as far as we know none of the collusion took place.

I would think that the last hill will be "Yes the collusion took place but so what? It's no different than Hillary hiring a law firm which just proves that the whole thing is a partisan witch hunt."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Byron York just said this on Fox. They don’t redact for campaign finance. Plus what else is there to say on that front. Cohen has already named Trump as a principle, that book is written, no report necessary.

 

45 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

That's almost word for word what some guy on Fox said. NOICE :lmao:

 

44 minutes ago, Sheriff Bart said:

JINX!!!! 

 

40 minutes ago, Angry spiders said:

Owned....sheesh ren....thought you were better than that

Wrong.  I saw it here, liked the phraseology and posted it here.  Here's some more stuff that guy said, also correct.  Fox News condemning neocons now?  

Edited by ren hoek
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aaron Maté‏ @aaronjmate

The top @washingtonpost story rn - the most damning thing they can extract from today's Mueller memos - concerns Cohen's contact w/ a Russian weightlifter in 2015 w/ whom, the memo states, Cohen "did not follow up" - was reported by Buzzfeed in *June*: (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/ivanka-trump-putin-moscow-meeting-michael-cohen-tower …)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Rirruto said:

Really, if you're a Trump guy, your last hill is that yes there was attempted collusion and yes Trump knew about it, but as far as we know none of the collusion took place.

I think an obvious rejoinder would be that Mueller only provided as much information as was fit for public consumption, so there were multiple potential meetings that didn't ultimately take place referenced because anything else would have to be redacted. Furthermore, we already know there were meetings between KGB recruiters and senior officials of the Trump campaign, but you could at least hold on to the fact that we don't know for sure--at least publicly--that any collusion took place yet.

But today at least stands for the day that we know there was attempted collusion that Trump knew about. And also he is implicated in felonies that we already knew he committed. We're already way further here than we ever were on Nixon. I still don't think Tricky Dicky can be directly tied to the burglaries. Trump can be directly tied the felonies. If there is a prosecutor worth his salt, he will be indicted within weeks of exiting the White House.

By attempted collusion, are you referring to Michael Cohen's emails with a weightlifter about making a building?  It used to be that collusion meant a quid pro quo- US policy in exchange for the Wikileaks release.  Not seeing how this weightlifter guy is supposed to be a major collusion player.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

By attempted collusion, are you referring to Michael Cohen's emails with a weightlifter about making a building?  It used to be that collusion meant a quid pro quo- US policy in exchange for the Wikileaks release.  Not seeing how this weightlifter guy is supposed to be a major collusion player.  

So I guess you’re just going to mash up various details and make a completely different story from it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ren hoek said:

Either way, if Byron York said that on Fox, he was correct.  This is nothing at all like the crazy conspiracy people have been hustling for 2 years.  

No...not either way...the whole claim that the russian stuff has fizzled is factually inaccurate.

You really should read the actual reports that came out today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Aaron Maté‏ @aaronjmate

The top @washingtonpost story rn - the most damning thing they can extract from today's Mueller memos - concerns Cohen's contact w/ a Russian weightlifter in 2015 w/ whom, the memo states, Cohen "did not follow up" - was reported by Buzzfeed in *June*: (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/ivanka-trump-putin-moscow-meeting-michael-cohen-tower …)

If it helps, as an actual lawyer, that’s definitely not the most damning unredacted thing from those memos. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

By attempted collusion, are you referring to Michael Cohen's emails with a weightlifter about making a building?  It used to be that collusion meant a quid pro quo- US policy in exchange for the Wikileaks release.  Not seeing how this weightlifter guy is supposed to be a major collusion player.  

No, that’s definitely not what anyone I’m aware of is referring to. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The failed Trump Tower deal in Moscow reads more like a bunch of ####ups with no idea what they're doing (big shocker) than guys with an inside track to the Kremlin.  No one in Trump's orbit appeared to have a clue how to fast-track a real estate deal in Moscow, let alone reciprocate interest from the Kremlin.  

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/1206/Trump-Tower-Moscow-doomed-by-cultural-divides

The idea that the country’s top elite might enjoy living together under one roof has a certain pedigree in Russia. Sixty years previously the Bolsheviks had constructed a vast, rambling apartment complex near the Kremlin, nicknamed The House on the Embankment, intended to concentrate top Soviet officials in one common abode. It became a scene of horror during the Stalinist Great Terror a few years later, as secret police vans carted away high-level victims to their deaths almost nightly.

The recollection of that tragic history may be one reason neither Yeltsin nor any of his cohorts appear to have ever moved into the Autumn House. Nobody in Russia has since floated the notion of putting all the leaders into one big home again.

That is, until Felix Sater, a former Soviet émigré in President Trump’s business circle.

Mr. Sater came up with the idea of convincing the Kremlin to help him and his associate, now disgraced Trump attorney Michael Cohen, navigate the shoals of Moscow’s opaque real estate market by giving a $50 million penthouse in the hoped-for Trump World Tower Moscow to Vladimir Putin. The rest of the units could then be sold for $250 million each to Russia’s elite.

It is not known whether Sater ever informed Mr. Trump of his plan, much less Mr. Putin. But he did seem confident that it should work. “All the oligarchs would line up to live in the same building as Putin,” Sater recently told BuzzFeed News.

The plan appears to have been one misjudgment among many. Whether or not pursuit of the project ran afoul of US law – a topic being hotly debated in American politics and media – the yearslong effort to build a Trump Tower in Moscow has been largely out of its depth over failures to understand how the Russian system works, experts say. Whatever its ambitions, the project ground to a halt in one of the hottest development zones in Moscow – one that features the full minefield of post-Soviet Russian business obstacles, including corruption, bureaucratic interference, dodgy financing, and opaque ownership.

The part of Moscow the Trump organization had long targeted for a Trump Tower is the Moscow City development. The Canary Wharf-like gaggle of wildly shaped and multicolored skyscrapers that now towers above a former industrial zone by the Moscow River has radically altered Moscow’s Soviet-era cityscape.

Nine skyscrapers have been completed over the past 15 years or so, with at least six more to come. The development includes a huge shopping mall, more than a hundred restaurants, hotels, vast amounts of office space, and some of the most expensive residential space in Europe.

One thing that is missing is the 100-story Trump World Tower Moscow, meant to be the tallest building in Europe, with Trump’s name glowing in huge letters from the summit and a penthouse for Putin on top.

Russian real estate experts chuckle at the story being recounted in the US media – not because of the suggestions of criminality and political collusion, which are roiling Americans. Rather, they are amused by the sheer incomprehension of the way things are done in Putin-era Russia that has been displayed by the Trump organization in its quest to get a deal in Moscow City.

“Everything here is complicated,” says Mikhail Loginov, editor of Stroitelnaya Gazeta, a leading construction industry journal. “The circle of companies working in Moscow is limited. It’s really difficult, though not impossible, for someone new to come in and establish themselves. The city government has its own companies, and it is the city that has the final word on any project.”

It’s not impossible to do the things that the Trump organization wanted to accomplish, says Alexander Shevchuk, a real estate insider who now works as an independent journalist.

“About 10 years ago my boss at the time had talks with Trump’s representative in Moscow, and they went through a lot of ideas. At some point Trump visited to test the waters,” he says. But nothing came of it.

Under its energetic mayor, Sergei Sobyanin, the Moscow government has since 2010 overseen a vast project of urban renewal and is currently in the process of uprooting thousands of Soviet-era apartment blocs and replacing them with new units on the edge of town. This gives city authorities a stranglehold on valuable downtown real estate, for which the city's favored companies get first pick.

But Trump’s representatives, Sater and Mr. Cohen, apparently chose a second-tier development company called I.C. Expert Investment, headed by a man named Andrei Rozov who had no track record of downtown Moscow development, with whom to do a deal.

The closest they appear to have gotten was a letter of intent, signed between the Trump group and Mr. Rozov in 2015. It outlines a licensing deal, in which Rozov would acquire the land, find the financing, and build the structure, paying about $4 million to the Trump organization plus a cut of condominium sales in return for the use of Trump’s name. It includes details, such as a spa named after Ivanka Trump and run according to her dictates, but there is no mention of a penthouse for Putin.

That deal, which was not legally binding, apparently went nowhere. It is unknown whether Rozov ever acquired rights to a plot of land in hotly contested Moscow City, or nailed down financing from any major Russian bank. The company, I.C. Expert, refuses to answer any questions about the project.

Last week, Kremlin press spokesman Dmitry Peskov revealed that his office received at least two emails from Cohen in January 2016, asking for Kremlin assistance in getting the Trump Tower project restarted. Mr. Peskov suggested that he was baffled as to why such a request would come to his official address for press inquiries.

“My email address is listed publicly. We receive dozens of emails every week from those who want to build something, want to improve relations, and also from ordinary citizens,” he said. He added that his assistant subsequently advised Cohen to attend the annual St. Petersburg Economic Forum, where he might connect with real Russian business people.

Kremlin sponsorship for a deal would definitely be a strong card if it were real, says Oksana Samborskaya, head of the architecture department of Stroitelnaya Gazeta.

“The Kremlin doesn’t have much to do with Moscow development these days. It’s all in the hands of the Moscow government. Of course, if Putin backed a project that would be key to its success,” she says. “But sending an email to the Kremlin press secretary, no, I don’t see how that could work.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

Literally no one is saying the Trump administration didn't commit crimes- 'process,' serious or otherwise.  They are questioning the Trump/RU/Wikileaks collusion fantasy.  

And everyone with sense is questioning that, and hoping it isn’t true.  It would be easier to believe the president if his entire staff wasn’t constantly lying about everything. And hadn’t constantly been in bed with the Russians about stuff and lying about knowing or speaking to any Russians.  

That’s one of the problems with lying about everything.  It makes it hard to trust you about anything. 

Edited by Henry Ford
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, the moops said:

I'm a pretty shady character. I would never run for even a local election for fear of people digging #### up on me. I would be considered a ####### saint in comparison to this Trump guy though. Holy ####

I suppose that just shows you're not an idiot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who's left who will vote for this clearly corrupt, infantile train wreck in 2020?  His twitter meltdown on Tillerson is enough to disqualify him from holding the office imho.  And how many times does the country need to be told that he doesn't read, isn't interested in details, isn't real smart, and flies by the seat of his pants before we all remember that those are all horrible qualities in a president?

Edited by James Daulton
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

Who's left who will vote for this clearly corrupt, infantile train wreck in 2020?  His twitter meltdown on Tillerson is enough to disqualify him from holding the office imho.  And how many times does the country need to be told that he doesn't read, isn't interested in details, isn't real smart, and flies by the seat of his pants before we all remember that those are all horrible qualities in a president?

53 senators and approx 200 members of the House of Representatives.

And come 2020 approx 60 million Americans.

Come on JD, now you made me depressed

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, msommer said:

53 senators and approx 200 members of the House of Representatives.

And come 2020 approx 60 million Americans.

Come on JD, now you made me depressed

I thin we'll see a decent drop from the 60M.  Remember he got a lot of never Hillary voters and voters who thought they'd give him a chance.  No way the majority of those people would vote for him now.  I think you have to be a card carrying member of the cult in order to still support him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me - the most damning thing that was in the memos is something(s) that was not in the memos.

 

Page 5:  "The evidence of the above includes electronic communications (including detailed descriptions I[blank] draft [blank] and travel records."

 

 

Mueller has got a ton of paper trail, and surveillance evidence.  Lordy, there are tapes.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I listened to some of Sean Hannity from last night. Even for him, it was especially ridiculous. His arguments: 

1. Cohen’s original statement was that he paid the women himself without Trump’s knowledge. When Trump found out about it, he paid Cohen back, which Hannity claims is not illegal. Now Cohen says Trump knew and authorized the payments, but since Cohen is a liar we don’t know what the truth is and we can’t assume the second version is true. (Of course this absurd line ignores the fact that it defies all logic that Cohen would make these payments on his own without Trump’s knowledge: how would he even know who these women were?) 

2. None of this has anything to do with collusion or Russia. It’s all about sex, and the public won’t care. In fact if the Democrats overreach Trump's popularity will go up just as it did with Bill Clinton. (First off this is false, Hannity knows it’s false; he’s completely ignoring the part of the memos that had to do with Russia. Obviously he thinks his audience is stupid, and given his consistently  high ratings, he is probably right about that. Second, even if this were only about Cohen’s payments to the women, the Lewinsky analogy doesn’t hold: if Bill Clinton had been caught paying  Monica Lewinsky cash to keep silent prior to his election, I think he would have been removed from office. That is a serious crime. Finally, given Hannity’s attacks on Clinton during the Lewinsky saga, his current dismissal of this situation as “all about sex” is especially hypocritical.) 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Johnnymac said:

I've been wrong before, but we found out today that the president committed two felonies.  I would hope that would be a problem for some of the GOP law and order senators.

Yes they are felonies but these GOP Senators will  look at as slap on the wrist type crimes which usually result in cash penalties . Personally I think the witness tampering with Manafort, obstruction  of justice, collusion that will be reinforced  in future indictments  in the final Mueller report would more likely be what will be required for them to turn on the President. I will be monitoring remarks from Senators like Romney, Kennedy, Graham, Collins, expecting the Mueller probe to continue on into 2019.

Edited by lazyike
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, ren hoek said:

The rest of the units could then be sold for $250 million each to Russia’s elite.

- CSM

What gets me is even if you took away every claim of kompromat and quid pro quo this idea of this deal even if in the future when he leaves the WH must even now be a powerful draw for Trump. The guy even opened up a hotel in  the capital on the eve of his presidency, he sees the office as a vehicle for his wealth not a barrier to it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, ren hoek said:

I saw ihere, liked the phraseology and posted it here.

What I also don’t understand about this idea, whether it comes from this Kervick guy or York or Fox is, yes yes yes campaign finance fraud is totally believable, because Trump is obviously avaricious. And Trump would totally shuttle money around to cover up sexual sordidness. But no no no he would never do it for profiteering in Russia and he would never be caught up in kompromat. I don’t get the imaginary line drawing there, especially as it requires supposing some sort of internal set of mores that Trump clearly doesn’t possess.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
  • Like 3
  • Thinking 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...