Probably - but I am assuming this is a very short-term deal - after the election, but before the inauguration. Sometime in January. So, his only real role will be to issue the pardon.*
*in my prediction.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter whoknew
- Start date
*in my prediction.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
How does this prove it to be true? I appreciate the devil’s advocate positions especially as Trumpites are rarely seen roaming the plains these days, but anyone making this argument has to explain the cover stories. People invent cover stories - like ‘adoptions’ - when they know they’ve committed wrongdoing and want to evade detection.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
They'll just say "We lied about it because we knew it would look bad. But we didn't think that it was an actual crime."
(Not unlike Bill Clinton's excuse for lying about Monica.)
dkp993
Footballguy
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
This is not entirely true with respect to campaign finance laws. There are lots of exceptions and caveats but as a general rule campaign finance violations must be “willful and knowing” to be criminal. Otherwise they are just civil offenses that can result in fines but not jail time.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I don't know. I remember another high profile, psychotic New Yorker tried to use this defense when attempting to keep his job because his boss found out he slept with the cleaning woman in the office. IIRC, there were even bribes of cashmere.
dkp993
Footballguy
Now, I don't know specifically about the campaign finance laws, but generally speaking the intentional conduct - is generally that you intended to do whatever conduct you are accused of doing - not that you intended to break the law.
So, I imagine that in this case - the prosecutors would have to prove that Trump intended to pay the women, and that he intended to do so to influence the election (or he intended to have Cohen and/or David Pecker pay the women). John Edwards defense to his accusations were that the payment was made irrespective of the campaign - and that would be Trump's defense here as well. But that is a factual question that would have to be decided by a jury. The prosecution has gotten Cohen to admit, under oath, that this is not a viable defense - so it becomes a battle of bigger liars.
I don't really think that the prosecution has to prove Trump knew this was a violation of campaign finance laws - but willing to be educated if someone knows better.
Dickies
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
TO #1....the precedent was set with Clinton. Just because it hasn't been under oath (yet) means little.
To #2: Been saying this from the beginning. You have to connect it "pay for play" otherwise it's just doing business. It's much more logical to focus on the obstruction of justice, campaign finance issues, money laundering etc.
Trump can scream "no collusion" until he's blue in the face and be 100% correct. It's the other crap that's going to bite him in the ###.
Angry spiders
Footballguy
Mitch McConnell received $3,500,000 from a Ukrainian-born oligarch with ties that lead to Russia’s Vladimir Putin.
@highbrow_nobrow
https://t.co/bG1Z395HzE
@highbrow_nobrow
https://t.co/bG1Z395HzE
I think the correct name is "All-Russia People's Front"
Not to be confused with the "All-People's Front of Russia" that lot is a bunch of %^&*@!
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Was it a campaign contribution or direct payment?
It would not be direct campaign contributions for a few reasons...
But, this is what was in the tweet:
Blavatnik contributed $1.5 million to the GOP Senate Leadership Fund PAC in the name of Access Industries and another $1 million in the name of AI-Altep Holdings during the 2015/2016 election season. And as of September 2017, he had contributed another $1 million this year through AI–Altep.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Whelp. I don’t know if all of that is true, but it certainly would explain a lot.
matuski
Footballguy
A link to a blog called "The Intellectualist"?
Less than 4k Twitter followers and not even blue check certified.
You are bringing Q quality material.
Let's dig though. Who is Len Blavatnik?
Born in 1957 to a Jewish family in Odessa. Family emigrated to US in 1978. Masters from Columbia and MBA from Harvard. Dual citizenship in US and UK.
In 1986 founded Access Industries. After the fall if communism he partnered with a college buddy, the big bad oligarch Vekselberg, and invested in Russian industry.
Then he diversified into oil, entertainment, coal, petrochemicals, telecommunications, media, and real estate. Mostly in Europe and the US.
Big supporter of the arts, sciences, and hungry Jewish people in Israel.
Donated to Barack Obama, Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, John McCain, anti-Trump group, Trump inauguration fund, Kamala Harris, Chuck Schumer, Andrew Cuomo, and Hillary Clinton.
Was knighted in 2017 for his philanthropic contributions.
But some rando named Jake on a lightly trafficked blog says he is bad because he donated to a PAC affiliated with Sen McConnell.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That would take a politician who accepts some sort of blame and human flaws, right?
I'm not sure when that starts. There has already been indictments, and Trump Org exec(s) and the CEO of National Enquirer have immunity. And this broke Friday, and since then the chiefs of staff for both the President and the VP have quit.
Clinton had a firewalled war room and love him, hate him or shrug him off he had real pros around him. Last I heard Trump and Giuliani haven't changed their cover stories. I'm guessing Kelly and Ayers didn't feel like participating.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
You're right to be skeptical, given the source. Here's an article from the Dallas Morning News back in May, that details more of Blavatnik's campaign contributions. Notice the huge uptick in amounts in 2016? Notice the usually bipartisan Blavatnik seemingly picking a side? Notice the connections Blavatnik has to Russian oligarchs, through direct business partnerships? Notice the oblique connections outlined to Putin and the Russian state-controlled bank?
The pattern is troubling, especially given the recent reveals of political synergy in action during the 2016 election. And, if it comes out that he was funneling Russian oligarch money to the campaign, then it's bad news for Blavatnik. And, if it further comes out that McConnell and other Repubs were complicit in the scheme to funnel Russian money (hey, Maria Buthina and the NRA) then it's bad news for Republicans.
I'm not making any claims, but as an outside observer with maybe 20% of relevant info, it sure looks like a conspiracy to circumvent political finance laws. And it sure looks suspisciously like Republicans knew about and encouraged it and were offering special considerations to operatives of foreign hostile powers because of it. I figure if there's evidence out there, the OSC will find it and then we go from there.
Banger
Footballguy
You mean making secret payments to pay off a porn star and lying endlessly about it to cover it up so voters wouldn’t find out isn’t normal and ok? Learn something everyday....
Last edited by a moderator:
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Hope Hicks: “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”
Trump when asked whether anyone who advised his campaign had contact with Russia in February 2017: “No. Nobody that I know of.” “I have nothing to do with Russia. To the best of my knowledge, no person that I deal with does.”
Banger
Footballguy
You would have to be out of your mind to join Trump as his chief of staff....with the Mueller investigation, the Dems holding the house and he being completely unhinges and out of his mind. You know the president will break any law to hold his power and will absolutely expect you to break the law for him. Look at the trail he’s created so far and that list is going to grow dramatically.
The COS staff job has absolutely ZERO upside...you’ll likely end up fired, arrested, humiliated, and broke from legal fees. Besides that it’s a great opportunity.
The COS staff job has absolutely ZERO upside...you’ll likely end up fired, arrested, humiliated, and broke from legal fees. Besides that it’s a great opportunity.
Ned
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
So Manafort is going to prison right? I hope it's one of those for-profit prisons.
Trumpese
Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago
More
“Democrats can’t find a Smocking Gun tying the Trump campaign to Russia after James Comey’s testimony. No Smocking Gun...No Collusion.” @FoxNews That’s because there was NO COLLUSION. So now the Dems go to a simple private transaction, wrongly call it a campaign contribution,...
Henry Ford
Footballguy
He is already in jail - but, yes he is probably headed to prison (and I would speculate that the length of the sentence will be sufficient to send him to a medium-security level prison.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
A simple private transaction...which he completely denied over and over. Now he is acknowledging it?
timschochet
Footballguy
So what was that James Comey hearing all about? What were the Republicans hoping for there?
And they’re using the words of someone he constantly says is lying. Oh and maybe some evidence has been found since he was fired that he doesn’t know about.
Banger
Footballguy
so in the goal post moving update...
I think in the final version the story will end up being...it's completely fine to conspire with the Russians to receive assistance in terms of hacking, social media, illegal campaign contributions funneled through the NRA to fraudulently get installed as President in exchange for trying to remove sanctions for Russia and then when the DOJ/FBI are onto your scheme you do everything you can to interfere, fire and obstruct justice and the investigation using the congress / Fox News / endless lies via tweet and any other means necessary because the alternative was Hillary....
- there were no contacts with Russian's, don't know Russian's, have no business or deals with Russians
- there may have been a few contacts with Russians but all were completely normal contacts in the normal course of a campaign
- okay there were at least 14 individuals within the campaign that had contacts with Russians and when asked they all initially lied only to later clarify that they had in fact spoken with Russians about the removal of sanctions but that's completely normal...
- oh and the Trump Campaign had a secret meeting in Trump Tower between the heads of the Trump Campaign and a few individuals but it was about Russian adoptions
- well it was actually about receiving illegally hacked emails and had 4, 5, 6, 8 Russians...translators, GRU agents, the head of Russian sanction removal but trust us nothing at all happened and the President didn't know about it
- the President knew nothing of the meeting and had nothing to do with the response / cover up of the completely ordinary meeting
- well the President did in fact dictate the entire response from AF1 but really swears he didn't know anything about the meeting involving the top members of his campaign getting what he desired more than anything during the campaign...Hillary's emails (that's believable right??)
- there may have been business talks with the Russians on setting up Trumps biggest deal of his 70 year life but they all ended to no avail long before the campaign for President
- oh, well Cohen lied to Congress about the timing of the business talks and appears to have coordinated those lies with many others involved in the campaign that testified to Congress / spoke to Mueller as well as Trumps defense team but these are all just "process" crimes and don't really count
- and well the Trump Organization did lie about their business dealings with Russia and actually had a letter of intent with Moscow which needed sanctions to be removed in order to receive financing from VTB bank but it's totally normal, legal and cool to have business dealings (and lie about them for years and have people in the campaign indicted, arrested and jailed for those lies)
- the President vehemently denies any relationship whatsoever with Stormy Daniels
- well we may have setup a company, bank accounts and executed NDA agreements to funnel hush payments to Daniels but the President knew nothing about it and the payments were made by Cohen
- well the payments were made by Cohen and reimbursed over time as hidden legal fee payments from the Trump organization but again the President knew nothing about these payments
- well the President was caught on a tape recording discussing the payments in real time thereby acknowledging that he did know about the payments but he was doing it to protect his family.
- well the President knowingly coordinated with the Nat'l enquirer and directed his attorney to commit two felony campaign finance law violations prior to the election to stop negative press about his affairs with playboy bunnies and porn stars while married to the first lady but this was just a private transaction and are just campaign finance violations and don't really count.
- there was no collusion
- well collusion isn't even a crime
- well there may be collusion but there's no smocking gun
- well there may be a gun with smoke coming out of the barrel and a video tape of someone looking like the President pulling the trigger but what you are seeing you really aren't seeing....
I think in the final version the story will end up being...it's completely fine to conspire with the Russians to receive assistance in terms of hacking, social media, illegal campaign contributions funneled through the NRA to fraudulently get installed as President in exchange for trying to remove sanctions for Russia and then when the DOJ/FBI are onto your scheme you do everything you can to interfere, fire and obstruct justice and the investigation using the congress / Fox News / endless lies via tweet and any other means necessary because the alternative was Hillary....
Last edited by a moderator:
Banger
Footballguy
A counter narrative to put on Fox to offset the news that they knew was going to be released about the President. It's no coincidence it was done the same day of all the Mueller legal filings...then you turn on Fox and one of the top stories was "Comey's testimony on the hill"...then they release a few questions about Hillary's emails and the lemmings get frothy at the mouth...simple as that. Complete joke and waste of time...PR stunt plain and since they are losing the House this is a last pathetic gasp to yell "bbut Hiiiillllaaaryyyyyy!!!"
Last edited by a moderator:
