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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn


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6 minutes ago, Banger said:

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:  ...this is a good one...so Mueller's embarrassed by Mueller's conduct so they gave him no jail time...seems logical....but wait, isn't this the same guy that is destroying lives??  :confused:  

 

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

They gave General Flynn a great deal because they were embarrassed by the way he was treated - the FBI said he didn’t lie and they overrode the FBI. They want to scare everybody into making up stories that are not true by catching them in the smallest of misstatements. Sad!......

 

someone should proofread this nonsense before hitting send....

Huh?

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2 minutes ago, Sammy3469 said:

His tweets have gone from laughable to pathetic to just sad pretty quickly (and no non-Fox people take them seriously anymore).  This (this being his presidency) may be over sooner rather than later.  He’s weak and everyone knows it.

Does feel like this is all coming to a head.

While not at all scientific, this thread is probably a decent barometer for how people feel about all of this, conservatives in particular.

First, lots and lots of people laughing off the nothingburger, it's all bitter democrats making stuff up.

Then, after various crimes came to light, the argument became that Trump did nothing wrong, this stuff isn't related to him, etc.

Now?

Crickets.

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3 minutes ago, squistion said:

Guys, everyone commits conspiracy!1!  Its DC for cryin' out loud!  Everyone's conspiring so....no big deal?  Besides, she probably acted alone.

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The "Americans" having power and influence = Republicans.  

 

John Harwood‏Verified account @JohnJHarwood

“Butina said she acted ‘under direction of’ a Russian official. ‘Butina sought to establish unofficial lines of communication with Americans having power and influence over US politics,’ prosecutor said in court”

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Banger said:

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:  ...this is a good one...so Mueller's embarrassed by Mueller's conduct so they gave him no jail time...seems logical....but wait, isn't this the same guy that is destroying lives??  :confused:  

 

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

They gave General Flynn a great deal because they were embarrassed by the way he was treated - the FBI said he didn’t lie and they overrode the FBI. They want to scare everybody into making up stories that are not true by catching them in the smallest of misstatements. Sad!......

 

someone should proofread this nonsense before hitting send....

 Who is They?

Nevermind I don't want to know

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stumbled on this great thread from August...https://twitter.com/saradannerdukic/status/1026576810925076480

Sara Danner Dukic‏ @saradannerdukic

Knowing what we know now, let's look at the Trump Tower timeline again (THREAD)

April-May, 2016: Papadopoulos in communication with “high ranking Russian official” in an attempt to set up meetings between Trump team and Russian reps, w/the promise “that the Kremlin had 'dirt' on Hillary Clinton in the form of “thousands of emails…” https://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/20180322/108023/HRPT-115-2.pdf …

(cont’d from the House Minority Report linked above) May, 2016: “a senior Russian official approached the Trump campaign through the National Rifle Association (NRA) to try and arrange a meeting between candidate Trump and President Putin.”

On May 10, 2016, Rick Erickson reaches out to Rick Dearborn, a longtime senior advisor to Jeff Sessions, saying: “Russia planned to use the NRA’s annual convention to make “first contact” with the Trump campaign”…

…Dearborn communicated this request on May 17, 2016 to the highest levels of the Trump campaign, including Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, and Jared Kushner...

The effort to establish a back-channel between Russia and the Trump campaign included a private meeting between Torshin and “someone of high rank in the Trump Campaign.”

The private meeting would take place just prior to then-candidate Trump’s speech to the NRA. (end excerpts from House minority report)

May 19-22, 2016: NRA Convention - Don Jr. attends + meets with Torshin (see minority report link above for documentation); DJT speaks on May 20 https://www.nraam.org/media/1641/daily-event-schedule.pdf …

So after a couple of months of trying to figure out how to set up an official meeting (WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT), Goldstone contacts Don Jr.

June 3-8, 2016: Don Jr. and Goldstone are emailing each other.  Note Don Jr. expresses zero surprise/concern the Russian government is supporting his dad's candidacy.

And, when he emails Manafort and Kushner, it's in a way that assumes they already know everything about the meeting - who it's with, and why.

June 8, 2016: DC Leaks is launched

The next day - June 9, 2016 - is the meeting at Trump Tower.

Later that day - basically right after the meeting, Trump tweets about missing emails.

Let’s go back to the House Minority Report: “At key campaign milestones, the Agalarovs sent notes wishing good luck, conveying congratulations, and offering gifts to Donald Trump. These communications generally occurred through Rob Goldstone, Emin Agalorov’s business partner,...

..who then emailed them to Rhona Graff, candidate Trump’s trusted personal assistant. On each occasion, Graff made sure that Mr. Trump saw these communications, and made it clear that doing so was ‘important.’”

The day after the meeting (June 10), Aras Agalarov sends Trump an expensive painting as a birthday gift.

June 12, 2016: Assange talks about all the dirt Wikileaks has on HRC.

June 14, 2016 - 6 days after the meeting: News breaks that the DNC has been hacked, and that it was the Russians.

Note that they had actually known this for a while, but waited until June 14, 2016, to make it public.

June 14 is also: DONALD TRUMP’S BIRTHDAY.

That same day (June 14), Goldstone emails Emin Agalarov saying that it was "eerily weird" that the DNC hacks were the top news, given the subject of their recent meeting.

Before we go on, let's stop and think about this. This was originally spun as "this is just an idea they had and WOAH, it looks like someone else beat them to it! SO WEIRD, RIGHT?!”

But what if it was actually: "####. I think maybe someone knows what we're up to. We'd better be careful."

If they thought they were being watched, then they couldn't be having any more meetings or phone calls.  What options would they have?

June 17: Trump sends a thank you note for the painting.  Of course, this could also be nothing but a thank you note - but it's at least worth a pin stick.

Hackings and leaks continue in earnest from June 14 - July 22, culminating in the Wikileaks dump on July 22. July 19, 2016: Trump receives official nomination

Sometime after July 19, 2016: Trump warned by FBI about Russians trying to infiltrate campaign.

Again, I think it’s likely - given the email from Goldstone to Agalarov, and that the FBI may have told them at this point about Russian infiltration - that they knew they were being watched.

What option would they have if they needed to get an important message out? One that was time sensitive? They'd have: the press.

They could: use someone who's known for saying crazy #### all day, everyday.  Have him do it in plain sight.  Meanwhile, in the news: “he’s f*cking nuts.  Look at how bat#### crazy he is! Haha!”

Like this, on July 27, 2016:  You should watch this again. Right before he gives his "Russia if you're listening" line, he says that HRC's *probably already been hacked.* Then, after rambling and looking at someone, he looks right into the camera and delivers his line.

That meeting wasn't about a *possible* collaboration. It was about #######, MUTHF*CKIN HOME STRETCH STRATEGY.

Hours after he delivered the message, they did exactly what he’d asked.

PS: I think it’d be wise not to assume that in this timeline (and the broader context too) first contact between RU and any given person does not = first contact with campaign. They likely went thru ppl like Kleenex to avoid detection/buy time.

And on that same note: it might also be wise to pay attention to the word “campaign” and possibly take it to mean “the official campaign of DJT” vs. team Trump. Meaning, first contact w/campaign doesn’t mean there wasn’t prior contact before the campaign team was official.

 

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Asha Rangappa‏Verified account @AshaRangappa_

If the FBI had evidence that Butina was acting at the direction and control of the Russian government (and her plea reveals they did), it makes her an agent of a foreign power & a legit target for a FISA...if there was one, anyone talking to her would have been captured on it.

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was Jr caught on tape??  WITCH HUNT!!!

Kaz Weida‏ @kazweida

REMINDER: Alexander Torshin has ties to the Russian mob & is accused of money laundering in Spain. In 2018, wiretaps from Spanish police were handed over to the FBI. When asked about US political ties, a Spanish prosecutor on the case said: "Mr. Trump's son should be concerned."

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2 minutes ago, Banger said:

was Jr caught on tape??  WITCH HUNT!!!

Kaz Weida‏ @kazweida

REMINDER: Alexander Torshin has ties to the Russian mob & is accused of money laundering in Spain. In 2018, wiretaps from Spanish police were handed over to the FBI. When asked about US political ties, a Spanish prosecutor on the case said: "Mr. Trump's son should be concerned."

Ha Ha Ha Ha HaHaHa!!!

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the thing that''s overlooked is that all of the intelligence agencies in the WORLD monitor the Russians and their activities.  Something like that Torshin communication are  critical pieces of information that Mueller knows/has that people outside of Mueller's team have no idea about.  What was on that conversation that they captured?  what other conversations were captured?  for how long?  that's one oligarch captured by Spanish intelligence...there were likely hundreds of similar intercepts that are being assembled like a puzzle...

WITCH HUNT!!!  NO COLLUSION!!! 

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52 minutes ago, squistion said:

It would be great if this meant the end of NRA influence on politics.

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26 minutes ago, Banger said:

was Jr caught on tape??  WITCH HUNT!!!

Kaz Weida‏ @kazweida

REMINDER: Alexander Torshin has ties to the Russian mob & is accused of money laundering in Spain. In 2018, wiretaps from Spanish police were handed over to the FBI. When asked about US political ties, a Spanish prosecutor on the case said: "Mr. Trump's son should be concerned."

It was Barron all along!! 

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Renato Mariotti‏Verified account @renato_mariotti

THREAD: What can we learn from the cooperation deal with Russian spy Maria Butina? (Answer: A lot.)

1/ Today Russian spy Maria Butina pleaded guilty to conspiring to secretly work as a Russian agent within the United States. As part of her plea, Butina and federal prosecutors agreed on the facts that proved her guilt, and they are shocking. See here:

2/ Butina pleaded guilty to working with "U.S. Person 1" (her former paramour, GOP operative Paul Erickson) to secretly act as a Russian agent at the direction of "Russian Official," which @CNN has identified as Alexander Torshin.

3/ Butina admitted that she drafted a proposal in Russian called "Description of the Diplomacy Project" that suggested Russia could use "unofficial channels of communication" to build relations with Political Party #1 (the Republican Party).

4/ In the proposal, she pointed to her attendance at conferences organized by "Gun Rights Organization" (the National Rifle Association or @NRA), which she told the Russian government had influence over the Republican Party.

5/ She told the Russian government that she believed the Republican Party would win the next presidential election and that she "laid the groundwork for an unofficial channel of communication with the next U.S. administration."

6/ In the proposal, Butina also claimed that she had been introduced to Republican Party leaders as "an unofficial representative" of Russian official Alexander Torshin. (It's worth noting that there are photos of Butina with Trump Jr., Santorum, and many others.)

7/ What shocks me most is that Erickson helped write this proposal! His behavior amounts to what most Americans would regard as outright treason. (As I discussed on my latest #OnTopic podcast with @Mimirocah1, our Constitution defines "treason" narrowly.) What was he thinking?

8/ In the joint statement to the court agreed to by the government and Butina, they said Erickson reviewed a Google-translated version of the proposal and gave advice, including information about U.S. political figures and connection with a Russian media commentator.

9/ Butina sent the proposal to the Russian official (Torshin) and asked for $125,000 from a Russian billionaire to attend NRA conferences as well as "separate meetings with interested parties," including the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

10/ She then traveled to the U.S. in April 2015 to attend a NRA convention. and was introduced to "influential members" of the Republican Party, including Donald Trump. (As @washpost recently noted, she was later able to directly ask Trump a question.)

11/ (The question was about sanctions imposed on Russia after its 2014 invasion of Crimea, and Trump gave an answer--"I don’t think you’d need the sanctions"--the Russian government would have favored.)

12/ Butina and federal prosecutors noted that part of the conspiracy was also inviting NRA leaders to Moscow in December 2015, and using Torshin to set up meetings with high-ranking Russian politicians because doing so would advance Russian interests.

13/ According to Butina and federal prosecutors, Butina sent the following message to Russian official Torshin about the NRA, translated from the original Russian: "We should let them express their gratitude now, we will put pressure on them quietly later."

14/ Butina also hosted "friendship dinners" with individuals who she believed "would have the ear of the next U.S. presidential administration." She told Torshin about one attendee who Erickson connected her with, and then sent an email to that attendee, copying Erickson:

15/ "Torshin is very impressed with you and expresses his great appreciation for what you are doing to restore the relations between the two countries. He also wants you to know the Russians will support the efforts from our side."

16/ Butina then helped organize a Russian delegation to the 2017 National Prayer Breakfast after Trump's election. Butina emailed Erickson that a list of invitees was handpicked by her and Torshin and were "coming to establish a back channel of communication."

17/ Erickson emailed someone (we don't know who), copying Butina, stating "Reaction to the delegation's presence in America will be relayed DIRECTLY" to Putin and the Russian Foreign Minister. As the statement makes clear, Butina did all of this work under Torshin's direction.

18/ So what does today's news mean legally? Now that Butina will testify against him, Erickson faces what appears to be overwhelming evidence of his guilt. Indeed, as @woodruffbets and @ErinBanco reported recently, Erickson received a target letter.

19/ That means that federal prosecutors intend to indict him. One reason why prosecutors send someone a target letter is because they *want* the person to find a criminal defense attorney. I've done that before myself when I was a federal prosecutor.

20/ Why would prosecutors want Erickson to get a good federal criminal defense attorney? Because they hope the attorney will tell Erickson that he faces overwhelming evidence and needs to cooperate.

21/ What did Erickson tell GOP leaders, NRA leaders, GOP operatives and others when he was connecting them with a Russian spy? Those conversations will be of very great interest to federal prosecutors because they might reveal others who also acted as Russian agents.

22/ Even if they didn't act as Russian agents, it is important for the United States to know whether the Russian government can blackmail any powerful American. Securing Erickson's testimony is the logical next step for prosecutors. The big question: Where does he lead them? /end

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1 hour ago, Skoo said:

Does feel like this is all coming to a head.

While not at all scientific, this thread is probably a decent barometer for how people feel about all of this, conservatives in particular.

First, lots and lots of people laughing off the nothingburger, it's all bitter democrats making stuff up.

Then, after various crimes came to light, the argument became that Trump did nothing wrong, this stuff isn't related to him, etc.

Now?

Crickets.

Where's @Matsui these days?

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1 hour ago, Banger said:

was Jr caught on tape??  WITCH HUNT!!!

Kaz Weida‏ @kazweida

REMINDER: Alexander Torshin has ties to the Russian mob & is accused of money laundering in Spain. In 2018, wiretaps from Spanish police were handed over to the FBI. When asked about US political ties, a Spanish prosecutor on the case said: "Mr. Trump's son should be concerned."

nothingtapas

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so within 3 hours Trump undermines his own tweet where he relied on Cohen's advice which led him to commit campaign crime...you can't make this stuff up and essentially proves he didn't send out that earlier tweet that was written with correct grammar and legal concepts...

 

Ryan J. Reilly‏Verified account @ryanjreilly

Trump, on Fox News, says Michael Cohen did more public relations than he did law, and that he hired Cohen because he was a “very supportive” member of the condo board.

10:04 AM - 13 Dec 2018

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9 minutes ago, Banger said:

so within 3 hours Trump undermines his own tweet where he relied on Cohen's advice which led him to commit campaign crime...you can't make this stuff up...

 

Ryan J. Reilly‏Verified account @ryanjreilly

Trump, on Fox News, says Michael Cohen did more public relations than he did law, and that he hired Cohen because he was a “very supportive” member of the condo board.

10:04 AM - 13 Dec 2018

Dear god

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8 minutes ago, jomar said:
20 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I'm sure this will put a stop to Fox News and its viewers from using these lines of reasoning

Yea, but what about someone talking to Reverend Wright and asking him to stop saying bad things about Obama. Totally the same thing cause they are trying to influence the election.

 

WTF

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29 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Kilmeade then quickly pivoted to Reverend Jeremiah Wright, whose “speaking out” made “candidate Obama look bad.”

Napolitano quickly informed the host that “would not be” an example of campaign violation.

:lmao:

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Just now, [scooter] said:

Kilmeade then quickly pivoted to Reverend Jeremiah Wright, whose “speaking out” made “candidate Obama look bad.”

Napolitano quickly informed the host that “would not be” an example of campaign violation.

:lmao:

but OBAMA!!!!  ya, Trump is a felon but Obama wore tan suits and didn't wear a flag pin!!!!

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:lmao: at "condo board"

:lmao: at jonessed twisting and turning to get us all to look somewhere else. The true believers have gone quiet because they now know that something is terribly wrong, that there were bad things out there that they originally thought didn't matter. But the pros, the guys who never admitted that they were Trump guys, the jonesseds, the rens, the roves, those guys are still in these threads deflecting for all they're worth. I'm beginning to wonder if they're on the up and up.

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8 minutes ago, roadkill1292 said:

:lmao: at "condo board"

:lmao: at jonessed twisting and turning to get us all to look somewhere else. The true believers have gone quiet because they now know that something is terribly wrong, that there were bad things out there that they originally thought didn't matter. But the pros, the guys who never admitted that they were Trump guys, the jonesseds, the rens, the roves, those guys are still in these threads deflecting for all they're worth. I'm beginning to wonder if they're on the up and up.

Beginning? :confused: 

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Is it really that tough for even those most in the bag for Trump to connect a few dots between all the findings of this investigation and what's going on in Ukraine?

Even if Trump is somehow innocent of knowing quid pro quo with Putin, the end result is the same. The world is now wide open for exploitation by Putin and he's taking full advantage. How can you support a President and administration who are contributing to that?

Imagine how differently things would be going, just in that venue alone, if virtually any of the other candidates for President in 2016 were in office now?

Instead we have chaos in U.S. Federal government and the real bad guys are making hay.

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9 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

The Hill‏Verified account @thehill

FollowFollow @thehill

More

Mueller to release info on foreigners' efforts to interfere in 2016 election: report http://hill.cm/Fr33I11

 

why do I have this gut feeling that Trump is going to come out looking pretty bad in the Koshoggi situation (even worse than he looks now) when Mueller starts to unveil indictments for contacts with Saudis....

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On 1/9/2017 at 9:05 PM, moleculo said:

full disclosure: I am a never-Trumper, and a reformed conservative.  I'm not entirely comfortable describing myself as a liberal, but I'm probably swinging closer to that side as the (R)'s get more and more crazy.  I did not vote for Trump and don't like most things about him, but he is our legally elected president and he deserves the benefit of the doubt.  I do hope he succeeds in making America Great Again; I do believe Trump has tapped into something forgotten in American politics, the middle class.

I'm not actively cheering one way or another in this whole sordid affair, I'm mostly fascinated in the story as a current event.  It's got potential for all of the drama and intrigue of a Clancy novel.  Frankly, the implications of the story as outlined by the Financial Times scare the crap out of me.  If true, and Trump was a knowing accomplice to Russian Mafia money laundering, he will be impeached and will spend time in jail.  I find that fascinating, regardless of political persuasion.

Is it really the middle class?  No college whites over 55?  Is that the middle class?

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1 minute ago, Banger said:

why do I have this gut feeling that Trump is going to come out looking pretty bad in the Koshoggi situation (even worse than he looks now) when Mueller starts to unveil indictments for contacts with Saudis....

Also interesting that the report anticipates these to be published "next year" and not imminently. That's got to bother someone...

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10 hours ago, Hilts said:

Russian government claims accused spy Maria Butina was 'tortured' in US custody, but doesn't provide any evidence.

 

Maybe this helps explain ren's recent criticisms on how she's being treated in prison.

This was already addressed when bucky’s McCarthyite brain came to the same conclusion you just did.  I’m sure you and the people who liked this post ( @Dedfin @mr roboto ) will be glad to know that I think solitary confinement is torture not because Putin, but because, well, it is.  

I literally had no idea at all that Putin said that.  I actually believe the way she’s been treated is shameful, complete overkill.  But because she’s a Russian national that makes it ok.  

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2 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Also interesting that the report anticipates these to be published "next year" and not imminently. That's got to bother someone...

he's got some court proceedings in Feb/March and we all KNOW that there are many more indictments coming with respect to collusion / obstruction of justice.  now we learn that he's opening an entirely add'l wing of investigation.  I wouldn't be surprised if this were still going on a year from now.  In that time there will be a tons of developments but no joke the amount of criminality...during the campaign, the inauguration, the cover ups / witness tampering / obstruction on so many different fronts (FBI agents, Comey, Mueller, etc.) and unfortunately for a criminal like Trump there is no pause button.....we just saw in recent filings that Manafort's team has been in continuous contact with Trump's team...were they coordinating stories/answers for Mueller like they did with Cohen when he spoke with Congress?  there are likely dozens of other events that we don't even know about

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Here the NYT lays out Butina’s sinister plot to establish a good relationship with the United States.  

Yet even as prosecutors secured Ms. Butina’s conviction and cooperation, they faced questions about their initial portrayal of Ms. Butina as something like a character out of “Red Sparrow,” the spy thriller about a Russian femme fatale.

Prosecutors had already been forced to back off the most salacious accusations against Ms. Butina — that she used sex as spycraft— and acknowledged in court filings this week that she genuinely wanted a graduate degree, and was not simply posing as a student to live in the United States. They also dropped accusations of her being in contact with Russian intelligence agencies, and that she was only using Mr. Erickson to gain access to other influential Americans.

Ms. Butina’s lawyers had strenuously objected to the earlier portrayal of their client, and the plea deal was likely to provide her defenders with new fodder to argue that her activities look sinister only to those who see the world through the outdated lens of the Cold War. For all of the headline-grabbing talk of a flame-haired Russian spy seducing unwitting Americans that followed her arrest, they say, Ms. Butina hardly lived her life in the shadows.

She openly advocated Russia-friendly policies and closer connections between her homeland and the United States in speeches and during her time at American University in Washington, where she earned a master’s degree. Her cellphone case featured a picture of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia riding a horse shirtless. She frequented Russia House, an upscale Washington bar where Russian hockey stars like Alexander Ovechkin of the Washington Capitals enjoy vodka and caviar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/13/us/politics/butina-guilty.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

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7 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

This was already addressed when bucky’s McCarthyite brain came to the same conclusion you just did.  I’m sure you and the people who liked this post ( @Dedfin @mr roboto ) will be glad to know that I think solitary confinement is torture not because Putin, but because, well, it is.  

I literally had no idea at all that Putin said that.  I actually believe the way she’s been treated is shameful, complete overkill.  But because she’s a Russian national  SPY that makes it ok.  

:yes:

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