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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (6 Viewers)

Remember when that crazy lady whose name rhymes with Ruiz Bench said that every intelligence agency on Earth had caught Trump and his people committing treason and recorded it?

Now imagine that Obama's last act on the way out the door was to sign an EO that allowed the NSA to firehose data straight to the FBI/CIA.  Kidding!  You don't have to imagine.

Have said it from day one:

1) They're all ####### stupid.

2) Trump did everything he's accused of, and more; almost no one is thinking big enough.

3) Mueller's going to prove all of it.
We need a "optimistic" rating...

 
Feels to me like you're trying to undersell this at every turn, but, yeah.  Safe to say we disagree.
Accurate description, imo.

I just feel we let our imaginations run loose too many times (and I am not immune to that).  

I also think that if Mueller had Trump dead to rights, that would have been conveyed already - so I think whatever Mueller has, its likely to be more nuanced.

 
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Accurate description, imo.

I just feel we let our imaginations run loose too many times (and I am not immune to that).  

I also think that if Mueller had Trump dead to rights, that would have been conveyed already - so I think whatever Mueller has, its likely to be more nuanced.
I think Mueller would go through the process and build and airtight case and go down every possible rabbit hole, just like any case.

But consider our two approaches to this from the POV of August, 2016.  Which one seems to be the better explanation of how events have actually unfolded over the last 2+ years?

 
Trump is on a (so far) 6 part twitter rampage about the NYT report.
:unsure:

Same-o same-o.

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3 hours ago

Wow, just learned in the Failing New York Times that the corrupt former leaders of the FBI, almost all fired or forced to leave the agency for some very bad reasons, opened up an investigation on me, for no reason & with no proof, after I fired Lyin’ James Comey, a total sleaze!

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3 hours ago

...Funny thing about James Comey. Everybody wanted him fired, Republican and Democrat alike. After the rigged & botched Crooked Hillary investigation, where she was interviewed on July 4th Weekend, not recorded or sworn in, and where she said she didn’t know anything (a lie),....

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3 hours ago

....the FBI was in complete turmoil (see N.Y. Post) because of Comey’s poor leadership and the way he handled the Clinton mess (not to mention his usurpation of powers from the Justice Department). My firing of James Comey was a great day for America. He was a Crooked Cop......

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3 hours ago

.....who is being totally protected by his best friend, Bob Mueller, & the 13 Angry Democrats - leaking machines who have NO interest in going after the Real Collusion (and much more) by Crooked Hillary Clinton, her Campaign, and the Democratic National Committee. Just Watch!

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 2 hours ago

I have been FAR tougher on Russia than Obama, Bush or Clinton. Maybe tougher than any other President. At the same time, & as I have often said, getting along with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. I fully expect that someday we will have good relations with Russia again!

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1 hour ago

Lyin’ James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Peter S and his lover, agent Lisa Page, & more, all disgraced and/or fired and caught in the act. These are just some of the losers that tried to do a number on your President. Part of the Witch Hunt. Remember the “insurance policy?” This is it!
 
Accurate description, imo.

I just feel we let our imaginations run loose too many times (and I am not immune to that).  

I also think that if Mueller had Trump dead to rights, that would have been conveyed already - so I think whatever Mueller has, its likely to be more nuanced.
Well when you think about how extreme the charges are, you’d expect someone to keep this investigation quiet until you have him ‘dead to rights’. How bad would it look for your own people to be investigating you as being an asset of a foreign country and you didn’t find anything?

It’s like if you hire a private investigator to follow your wife because you think she’s cheating. You not gonna let her or anyone else know you hired someone until you know she’s cheating.

I doubt this story would be ran unless the OSC approved it. And the OSC isn’t gonna let this be public knowledge if they came up empty. The bombshell isn’t just the story, it’s that the story was given the thumbs up to be printed.

 
cobalt_27 said:
None of this is true.  And a completely disingenuous attempt to push a false narrative.


msommer said:
I see you have met renbot
It’s entirely true.  Gates testified as much as a cooperating witness to the SCO.  Just because Maddow/Comcast doesn’t talk about it on her conspiracy hour doesn’t mean it’s not true.  Not sure why you’re struggling with facts here but you’re definitely struggling

 
And the OSC isn’t gonna let this be public knowledge if they came up empty. The bombshell isn’t just the story, it’s that the story was given the thumbs up to be printed.
Too early to know who leaked and why.

The story is the investigation started with the FBI - before Mueller; and, there are not too many details post-Mueller take over.  It is possible that the leak came directly from FBI agents with knowledge of the early investigation, and not from Mueller's team.

 
Greg Afinogenov is an assistant professor of imperial Russian history at Georgetown and he's upset that McKew has been hired as an actual professor at Georgetown. The guy's not remotely a national security expert, an intelligence expert, or even a an expert in the Cold War or post Cold War Russia. He's a guy from Russia who doesn't like McKew because she gets into twitter battles and accuses people of being Putin sympathizers. In fact in that thread Afinogenov accuses her of being an Estonian agent (what?!) and then he has to back down and state in his own thread she in fact is not. I guess the bottom line is Molly McKew is now at Georgetown. 
She’s a grifter and a hack.  He’s disgraced because Georgetown has hired a clown to teach at his university.  

 
https://twitter.com/byronyork/status/1083922711250903046?s=21

James Comey bungled Hillary Clinton investigation. Then started sketchy Trump probe. Then did a dossier-based, Moscow hookers, J. Edgar Hoover-style 'we know about you' routine with Trump before Trump became president...  

Then Comey told Trump three times he wasn't under investigation while leaving public impression that he was. Trump understandably angry. Then, when Trump fired Comey--as some advisors had advocated for months--FBI saw it as treason.  

Now, NYT reports FBI reacted to justified firing of Comey by opening counterintelligence investigation, probing 'whether [Trump] had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests.' 

Investigation result: 'No evidence has emerged publicly that Mr. Trump was secretly in contact with or took direction from Russian government officials.' Is NYT story about Trump, or about FBI malfeasance? 

 
She’s a grifter and a hack.  He’s disgraced because Georgetown has hired a clown to teach at his university.  
Getting hired by Georgetown would refute that. Seems like a strange hill, I'm not sure whom McKew really matters to except people interested in Russian security issues. Afinogenov is not.

 
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That’s exactly my instinct.  Running it if it led nowhere would give red meat to Trump and his fantasy conspiracy.  This seems more like a sneak preview of some really, really bad stuff coming down the pike.  Only reason I could see the FBI allowing this to run is because they’re essentially saying, “We got you, you orange mother####er.”
Well I don't think it's so much that they are gloating but because they know there's a very distinct possibility of Matthew Whittaker trying to shut down the investigation or suppress the final report.

 
https://twitter.com/byronyork/status/1083922711250903046?s=21

James Comey bungled Hillary Clinton investigation. Then started sketchy Trump probe. Then did a dossier-based, Moscow hookers, J. Edgar Hoover-style 'we know about you' routine with Trump before Trump became president...  

Then Comey told Trump three times he wasn't under investigation while leaving public impression that he was. Trump understandably angry. Then, when Trump fired Comey--as some advisors had advocated for months--FBI saw it as treason.  

Now, NYT reports FBI reacted to justified firing of Comey by opening counterintelligence investigation, probing 'whether [Trump] had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests.' 

Investigation result: 'No evidence has emerged publicly that Mr. Trump was secretly in contact with or took direction from Russian government officials.' Is NYT story about Trump, or about FBI malfeasance? 
And you believe this?  Really?

 
https://twitter.com/byronyork/status/1083922711250903046?s=21

James Comey bungled Hillary Clinton investigation. Then started sketchy Trump probe. Then did a dossier-based, Moscow hookers, J. Edgar Hoover-style 'we know about you' routine with Trump before Trump became president...  

Then Comey told Trump three times he wasn't under investigation while leaving public impression that he was. Trump understandably angry. Then, when Trump fired Comey--as some advisors had advocated for months--FBI saw it as treason.  

Now, NYT reports FBI reacted to justified firing of Comey by opening counterintelligence investigation, probing 'whether [Trump] had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests.' 

Investigation result: 'No evidence has emerged publicly that Mr. Trump was secretly in contact with or took direction from Russian government officials.' Is NYT story about Trump, or about FBI malfeasance? 
Yes, no evidence has emerged "publicly" that Trump was a Russian asset only because Mueller has not completed his investigation and submitted his final report.  

 
Too early to know who leaked and why.

The story is the investigation started with the FBI - before Mueller; and, there are not too many details post-Mueller take over.  It is possible that the leak came directly from FBI agents with knowledge of the early investigation, and not from Mueller's team.
Oh I’m sure it was an FBI who leaked it and likely one that’s not working on Mueller’s team. His team hasn’t leaked and I don’t think they’re gonna start. But there have been reports that the OSC has asked for stories to be held back and it’s likely that they will check with them before publishing anything huge.

 
Ren, you are wish casting.

Trump has been in the pocket of Russians for years, and that didn't stop when he became President.

Your insistence on defending him, his actions, and continual search for counter narratives is baffling.

 
Walter Shaub‏ Verified account @waltshaub 6 hours ago

Walter Shaub Retweeted Evan McMullin

Even without Russia, firing an FBI Dir. for investigating him should‘ve ended his presidency. When it didn’t, firing an AG should have. When it didn’t, picking Whitaker should have. When it didn’t, the increasingly erratic behavior, incoherent statements & corruption should have.

Walter Shaub added,

Evan McMullinVerified account @Evan_McMullin

That the FBI had cause to investigate a sitting American president for possible collaboration with a foreign power against the nation should shock and awaken us to the gravity of our situation. Still beyond the perception of many, Trump has betrayed us.

Walter Shaub‏Verified account @waltshaub 6 hours ago

Walter Shaub Retweeted Renato Mariotti

There appears to be no limit to what his allies in Congress will tolerate. People should avoid walking on Fifth Avenue when he’s in NYC. He wasn’t kidding.

(Walter Shaub is the former Director of the Office of Government Ethics)

 
How the Times Reported the F.B.I. Counterintelligence Investigation Into President Trump: An Interview with the Journalist Adam Goldman

New Yorker interview with one of the NYT writers on this story.

I remain skeptical that there is any "meat" to this story, other than a procedural walkthrough as to how the President found himself as the subject of a counter-intelligence investigation.

Did somehow Russia exert some pressure on Trump, maybe not necessarily because it has leverage or blackmail, but somehow they devised a way to get him to operate on their behalf, to do something on their behalf? It is hard to say what that would look like. People were very careful to tell me that: “It is wittingly or unwittingly. We are not here to say that Trump is an agent of a foreign power.”

***

Does this change your sense of the Mueller investigation?

No, not necessarily. Mueller inherited this when he became special counsel, and this is something he would have had to run to the ground. Now we know it officially exists, and it was a predicated F.B.I. investigation, and they would have to articulate why they would have to open this investigation. Mueller inherited this, and he will have to end it. And it seems to me he will have to articulate, if he hasn’t already, why there wasn’t evidence to support this idea—or maybe there was. I think Mueller is going to have to address this. Which, by the way, is the question the American public expects him to answer. You don’t need me to tell you that the American public expects an answer to “Is Trump working with Russia?” It’s the sixty-four-thousand-dollar question.

 
Have no fear America! While liberals waste their time examining this nothingburger Russia stuff, the brave attorneys at Judicial Watch are renewing their focus on the REAL issue that everybody wants to know about in 2019: BENGHAZI!! 

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/weekly-updates/weekly-update-benghazi-and-clinton-emails-are-back/#anc1
Instead of asking why the Mueller investigation is taking so long,  maybe the right should be asking why Hillary is still free after 2 years. 

 
She’s a grifter and a hack.  He’s disgraced because Georgetown has hired a clown to teach at his university.  
He didn’t even have a real job - not there, anywhere - until two years ago when he finished his Ph.D.  I’m sure he’ll get over it. 

 
How the Times Reported the F.B.I. Counterintelligence Investigation Into President Trump: An Interview with the Journalist Adam Goldman

New Yorker interview with one of the NYT writers on this story.

I remain skeptical that there is any "meat" to this story, other than a procedural walkthrough as to how the President found himself as the subject of a counter-intelligence investigation.

Did somehow Russia exert some pressure on Trump, maybe not necessarily because it has leverage or blackmail, but somehow they devised a way to get him to operate on their behalf, to do something on their behalf? It is hard to say what that would look like. People were very careful to tell me that: “It is wittingly or unwittingly. We are not here to say that Trump is an agent of a foreign power.”

***

Does this change your sense of the Mueller investigation?

No, not necessarily. Mueller inherited this when he became special counsel, and this is something he would have had to run to the ground. Now we know it officially exists, and it was a predicated F.B.I. investigation, and they would have to articulate why they would have to open this investigation. Mueller inherited this, and he will have to end it. And it seems to me he will have to articulate, if he hasn’t already, why there wasn’t evidence to support this idea—or maybe there was. I think Mueller is going to have to address this. Which, by the way, is the question the American public expects him to answer. You don’t need me to tell you that the American public expects an answer to “Is Trump working with Russia?” It’s the sixty-four-thousand-dollar question.
My understanding is that people felt the evidence to open this was quite strong, and the comments to Lester Holt pushed it over the edge. It’s my understanding that, if they hadn’t opened this, it would have been an abdication of their duty. If you are a law-enforcement official and you have evidence that perhaps suggests that the President himself may be acting as a foreign agent, either wittingly or unwittingly, isn’t it your duty to run this to the ground?

 
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Louise Mensch‏Verified  

Everybody is reporting what sources tell them. Their sources may not be aware these indictments already exist, but they do.

 
I feel like “there was collusion by the campaign manager but the candidate didn’t know about it” is pretty much the end of the goalposts moving. Beyond “you can’t indict a sitting President” I’m not really sure where to go from there. 
"Trump may have knowingly did it, but it did it with the good intention of saving it - it was a legal necessity to ensure Hillary doesn't get elected!"

 
Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Breaking: Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Putin, including on at least one occasion taking the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired, WaPo reports.

link

:eek:

 
Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Breaking: Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Putin, including on at least one occasion taking the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired, WaPo reports.

link

:eek:
Just like a guy with nothing to hide.

 
Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Breaking: Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Putin, including on at least one occasion taking the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired, WaPo reports.

link

:eek:
I don’t even know where the goalposts go from here.

My guess: “Putin is a better US President than Hillary would have been anyway”

 
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Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Breaking: Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Putin, including on at least one occasion taking the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired, WaPo reports.

link

:eek:
There had better be about a dozen new laws added to the book after this Trump debacle is over. Starting with never allowing a one-on-one meeting with a foreign leader without a witness.  It is unbelievable that a meeting between our crooked president and the man our FBI and DOJ both knew he colluded with against our democracy, were allowed to have a secret meeting. This can never again happen in this country.

 
There had better be about a dozen new laws added to the book after this Trump debacle is over. Starting with never allowing a one-on-one meeting with a foreign leader without a witness.  It is unbelievable that a meeting between our crooked president and the man our FBI and DOJ both knew he colluded with against our democracy, were allowed to have a secret meeting. This can never again happen in this country.
This is a good point. I am hoping some lesser known Dems, or even Repubs, are drafting legislation like the above that will be focused on after the report or after 2020 to really "reform" the government and bring back some integrity to it. These minor changes should play a huge role in the next election and the next Congress, if not the current Congress. Maybe it's time to revisit some of these "laws" that we have taken for granted, as they are not laws, but rather simple decorum that other President's have done.

 
Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Breaking: Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Putin, including on at least one occasion taking the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired, WaPo reports.

link

:eek:
The interesting thought is how do they know this?  I’d bet it’s because the interpreter was given a call by Mueller and asked what was discussed.  How would we know this otherwise?

 

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