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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn


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2 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

I don't think skepticism of the Russia investigation requires belief in a massive conspiracy.  I mean, I personally believe that the intelligence apparatus hated Trump and clearly acted on their emotions time and time again, unprofessionally, criminally.  But that's different from pointing out factual information that cuts against commonly accepted misperceptions about the central Trump/Russia collusion theory.  

They're not getting caught for the collusion theory that this thread is about.  Payments to porn stars, money laundering, tax evasion, etc., really have nothing at all to do with collusion and the judges in Manafort's cases have said as much.  None of the indictments are against Americans for their work in the 2016 election, or against Americans for criminally conspiring with the Russian state.  There are a bunch of indictments against Russian memers, which I guess is something.  

The point is, people can toss out the 30-something indictment figure all they like.  It doesn't confirm the central narrative about Trump/Russia collusion, or justify the country getting swept up in Cold War hysteria.  Moreover, this collusion fantasy has had a devastating impact on this country and its civic wellbeing.  Wrap it up already, wherever it's going.  

Even simple investigations take time.  Depending on what’s been found, this is potentially the most complex investigation that’s ever been undertaken by domestic law enforcement in this country. 

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9 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

I mean, I personally believe that the intelligence apparatus hated Trump and clearly acted on their emotions time and time again, unprofessionally, criminally. 

I can tell you one way you can know you’re wrong about this. And that is that Judge Sullivan begged, dared, cajoled, pleaded Flynn to stand up and make that claim in open court. You know what happened? He said no thanks and his trap was shut. He pleaded guilty to *everything he was accused of. And Sullivan, one of the few independent arbiters to look at the unredacted evidence, called him a traitor, that he betrayed his country.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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7 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I can tell you one way you can know you’re wrong about this. And that is that Judge Sullivan begged, dared, cajoled, pleaded Flynn to stand up and make that claim in open court. You know what happened? He said no thanks and his trap was shut. He pleaded guilty to *everything he was accused of. And Sullivan, one of the few independent arbiters to look at the unredacted evidence, called him a traitor, that he betrayed his country.

Sure, but ren's only worried about betraying Russia.

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8 hours ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I can tell you one way you can know you’re wrong about this. And that is that Judge Sullivan begged, dared, cajoled, pleaded Flynn to stand up and make that claim in open court. You know what happened? He said no thanks and his trap was shut. He pleaded guilty to *everything he was accused of. And Sullivan, one of the few independent arbiters to look at the unredacted evidence, called him a traitor, that he betrayed his country.

Curious to know rens opinion on this

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9 hours ago, ren hoek said:

I don't think skepticism of the Russia investigation requires belief in a massive conspiracy.  I mean, I personally believe that the intelligence apparatus hated Trump and clearly acted on their emotions time and time again, unprofessionally, criminally.  But that's different from pointing out factual information that cuts against commonly accepted misperceptions about the central Trump/Russia collusion theory.  

They're not getting caught for the collusion theory that this thread is about.  Payments to porn stars, money laundering, tax evasion, etc., really have nothing at all to do with collusion and the judges in Manafort's cases have said as much.  None of the indictments are against Americans for their work in the 2016 election, or against Americans for criminally conspiring with the Russian state.  There are a bunch of indictments against Russian memers, which I guess is something.  

The point is, people can toss out the 30-something indictment figure all they like.  It doesn't confirm the central narrative about Trump/Russia collusion, or justify the country getting swept up in Cold War hysteria.  Moreover, this collusion fantasy has had a devastating impact on this country and its civic wellbeing.  Wrap it up already, wherever it's going.  

You've done this many, many times. It's been pointed out to you that you don't get to define what this thread is about, and that most people would say it's a much broader inquiry than just "election collusion," many, many times. Honestly you don't even have to read further than the often-changed titles to see this, including the current one. And yet you still do it.

Just noting this for people who still harbor some illusion that you're here in good faith and willing to engage.  IMO you're either a propagandist, a troll or you simply don't bother to read and process what other people post.  At least those are the only three explanations I can think of for you continuing to do this.

Edited by TobiasFunke
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9 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Even simple investigations take time.  Depending on what’s been found, this is potentially the most complex investigation that’s ever been undertaken by domestic law enforcement in this country. 

Counterpoint: do you have any idea how difficult it is to move goalposts every couple weeks? They're not light and easy to carry, you know.  And don't even get me started about creating a new concrete foundation at each stop. At some point condemning these people to this Sisyphean task is just cruel.

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12 hours ago, Biff84 said:

McSally? I’m intrigued by this. She was anti-Trump until she started her Senate campaign and got behind him 100% to win the nomination.

Since she was appointed I’m thinking maybe she figures she’s on borrowed time and actually trying to do what she thinks is right? 

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10 hours ago, ren hoek said:

They're not getting caught for the collusion theory that this thread is about.  Payments to porn stars, money laundering, tax evasion, etc., really have nothing at all to do with collusion and the judges in Manafort's cases have said as much.  None of the indictments are against Americans for their work in the 2016 election, or against Americans for criminally conspiring with the Russian state. 

Actually the Manafort case showed us that he was sharing campaign polling info with the Ruskies.

And Don Jr already admitted to meeting with the Russian spy to get dirt on Hillary in Trump tower.

These two things are on the public record. You can ignore them all you like, but they happened.

And as you keep pointing out, the case hasn't even wrapped up yet.

 

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10 hours ago, ren hoek said:

I don't think skepticism of the Russia investigation requires belief in a massive conspiracy.  I mean, I personally believe that the intelligence apparatus hated Trump and clearly acted on their emotions time and time again, unprofessionally, criminally.  But that's different from pointing out factual information that cuts against commonly accepted misperceptions about the central Trump/Russia collusion theory.  

 

I'm all for skeptism, I really am.  But to continue to deny Russia's involvement requires a blatant disbelief of the entire IC  - the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.  It's been 2+ years now, and there are no legitimate voices of dissent - there have been no whistle blowers calling it all bunk, no rogue agents coming out and saying it was a 400 lb guy in NJ.  Nothing.

At what point will you accept the IC's findings?  What would it take? 

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21 minutes ago, sho nuff said:

Guys it’s ok if he committed numerous other crimes with Russia...it’s not collusion so this thread is :lmao:

Its really all Trump supporters have left.  Sure, his NSA was secretly talking to Russian spies and his campaign manager was giving polling data to Russia-friendly oligarchs and his top campaign personnel (incl. his son) met with Russians to get dirt on Hillary and lied about it...but what does any of that have to do with Trump!?!1?  So, winning!

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So far, actions speak louder than anything Mueller can discover. The actions we have seen from Trump and his posse have pointed to many things un-American. The list of actions should be cause for concern of every American. Facts are that his actions point to not benefitting America in any way, shape, or form. It’s unfortuante people still back him like some Messiah of the ancient world. Sad!

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2 minutes ago, Mario Kart said:

So far, actions speak louder than anything Mueller can discover. The actions we have seen from Trump and his posse have pointed to many things un-American. The list of actions should be cause for concern of every American. Facts are that his actions point to not benefitting America in any way, shape, or form. It’s unfortuante people still back him like some Messiah of the ancient world. Sad!

Its also the things Trump hasn't done, like support the effort to weed out the criminals. For as much as he denied all contact with Russians, an innocent person would be mad as hell that his own campaign was doing this without his knowledge.  He would be grateful for the Mueller investigation because remember, we supposed to be respecting the rule of law again.

That to me is more damning.

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18 hours ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

This is from Clint Watts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Watts

Imagine you are a FBI Agent working Russian counterintelligence in 2016 and you witness the following:

  • you witnessed Russian hackers targeting a wide swath of Americans including the DNC, DCCC, former Secretary of State & a Presidential candidates staff
  • someone previously targeted by Russian Intelligence joins the Trump campaign and then appears on a stage in Moscow supporting Russia policy and speaking negatively of US policy
  • A Presidential candidate hires a new campaign manager whose not been in the business in the states for years, but has been seen pushing a Russian agenda in Ukraine and has Russian intel contacts
  • an Australian official contacts you and says the Russians have stolen emails of a Presidential candidate & may want to give them to the candidate’s competitor
  • a Russian lawyer & others tied to Russian government visit a Presidential candidate’s son in the candidate’s building in NYC
  • Candidate Trump stands on a stage and calls out Russia and asks about emails from his competitor, says they will be rewarded if they have them and release them
  • website that’s released sensitive & classified documents from US for years, helped deliver a US insider to The Kremlin, begins publishing document & emails during Dem convention, content you know was stolen by Russia. Site administrator once hosted a TV show on Russia State TV
  • A strange, unexpected policy change occurs at RNC convention, the change is a less supportive position toward Ukraine and is advantageous to Russia
  • candidate’s campaign manager goes on CNN and asserts a false terrorist attack in Turkey, one tied to and advanced by Russian propaganda
  • during this time, you watch a campaign associate tweet with a Russian account that’s pointing people to stolen documents from the opposing campaign. The campaign associate predicts something will happen to the opposing campaign manager- his emails are later released
  • as Election Day approaches, Presidential candidate makes allegation, without evidence, voter Fraud & Election Rigging, Russia propaganda echoes this, social media accounts associated Kremlin do the same, at same time, you watch Russian Hackers hit state election infrastructure
  • After election, current President issues sanctions against Russia, but the incoming National Security advisor makes calls to Russian officials from 3rd country, when approached for clarification post inauguration, the advisor lies about contents of phone call w/Russian officials
  • During summer fall leading into the election, you receive raw intelligence from highly reliable source whose proven invaluable on other investigations. source provides intelligence on Russia’s efforts to support a presidential candidate, the info is consistent with other info
  • Before inauguration your bosses, your leaders from all intelligence agencies brief president elect on classified info showing Russia influenced the election on behalf of President elect. President elect rejects intelligence from all your superiors and suggests Russia innocent
  • From the summer of 2015 all the way through the election and after inauguration, you watch as the candidate, president elect and now president offers overt effusive support for Vladimir Putin who you know has been helping the President get elected.
  • Shortly after inauguration, your new commander-in-chief spouts false information about Polish aggression toward Belarus. This is not supported by the Intelligence community you are in, and the only source for this viewpoint is Russian propaganda
  • After firing of National Security Advisor that lies to you agencies investigators, the President corners your boss 1-1 asks him to go easy on National Security Advisor who lies about his conversation with Russians
  • During this period, the President inexplicably and repeatedly asks your boss if he’s under investigation with regards to Russia, despite your boss and other intel heads going out of their way to brief the President about Kremlin efforts to potentially compromise & manipulate him
  • While Congressional committees investigate Russian interference, the President fires your boss for his handling of an email investigation into the President’s opponent, an investigation that helped elevate the President rather than hurt him
  • You later find out a draft memo from President to your boss regarding his firing cited the Russia investigation
  • The President then goes on national television and in an interview says he fired your boss because of the Russia investigation
  • A week after firing your boss, the President invites Russian leaders into the Oval Office, Russian photographers capture the moment, but US media is not allowed to observe. President then brags to Russian leaders about firing your boss
  • Sometime during the spring, if you’re not already aware, you read a news story alleging the President’s son-in-law may have sought a way to communicate with Russia via a back channel not monitored by you and your colleagues
  • During summer, you watch the President attend NATO summit and shove Montenegro PM, in an Interview claim Montenegro is aggressive, might start a war. This mirrors Russian propaganda & you know Russia backed covert operation destabilize Montenegrin election
  • For next year, either you, your colleagues and your organization, FBI, are discredited by President. He mixes true and false information in public disclosures which you are not allowed to respond to. If you do respond, your accused of leaking and could be fired or even jailed
  • Documents & information from confidential sources you’ve pledged to protect, are selectively leaked into public through those who are supposed to provide government oversight. These inappropriate disclosures make your job as an investigator nearly impossible & hurts your sources
  • At some point during the summer or before, you learn that the President’s son was receiving & responding to direct messages from website that was releasing emails stolen from the President’s opponent by Russia
  • 1st two years President’s term, you watch him take a negative, adversarial stance toward NATO and particularly Germany. This strains your relationship with your most valuable intel partners, your Counterterrorism agent colleagues depend on them & they help fight war on terror
  • Over next 2 years, President aggressively seeks meetings with Putin who helped elect him. Need for meetings is not clear. one President meets in private with Putin for 2 hours without witnesses but translator. To this day, you, your bosses don’t really know what was discussed
  • President emerges from private meeting with Putin and on world stage in Helsinki accepts and validates Russian denials about election interference & rejects years of your teams intel work. This badly damages your reputation and partner trust with your organization
  • Separately, your President publicly discusses a Russian proposed partnership on cyber security, this insane concept is mind boggling to you as an investigator as you’ve just spent years tracking these same Russians who just attacked your country
  • Even further, your President publicly mentions a possible exchange where Russian investigators might interview and interrogate you and other Americans about their attack on you and America. A crazy, frightening and bizarre threat to you as a civil servant.
  • Throughout your investigation into Russian interference, you watch as your President’s attacks on the Special Counsel, Justice Department & FBI are amplified and spread in America by the very Russian troll social media accounts and state sponsored propaganda you are investigating
  • Throughout the Special Counsel indictments, hearings and trials, you watch the President and his legal team publicly interject, discredit witnesses and discuss pardons, all subverting the rule of law and justice which you’ve dedicated your life to protect and defend
  • You either know or learn a parallel investigation shows Russians representing a bogus Russian gun rights movement penetrated the political party hosting members who’ve tried to discredit you - you recognize this as a TEXTBOOK espionage/influence op you learned at FBI academy
  • After two years, the Attorney General over you, who appropriately recused himself from Russia investigation, is fired for seemingly no clear reason after taking public lashings from the President
  • Your AG is replaced by an acting AG whose unqualified for position, has limited experience justify such high level appointment, you’ve watched him on TV discrediting your agency and your team’s investigation despite seeing none of evidence or knowing anything Russian influence
  • The same month, the President’s personal lawyer pleads guilty in federal court and says he continued negotiations throughout almost the entire Presidential campaign for a Tower in Moscow. This is in opposition to President’s public denials.
  • You read public reporting that the best apartment in the Moscow Tower project pursued by the President’s business was offered to Russia’s President Putin, the same Putin your President always sides with over you and your agency, the Putin who helped your President win
  • You either knew or learned through a redaction error that the President’s campaign manager was alleged to have lied about providing polling data to a Russian whom he owed money, via a former Russian GRU contact

 

Massive coincidence, indeed

But what about emails.  I think that's the question we need to be asking.  What about her damn emails? 

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53 minutes ago, moleculo said:

I'm all for skeptism, I really am.  But to continue to deny Russia's involvement requires a blatant disbelief of the entire IC  - the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.  It's been 2+ years now, and there are no legitimate voices of dissent - there have been no whistle blowers calling it all bunk, no rogue agents coming out and saying it was a 400 lb guy in NJ.  Nothing.

At what point will you accept the IC's findings?  What would it take? 

A new, nonbot job?

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>>Mr. Trump later told The Times that he went over to see his wife, Melania Trump, who was sitting next to Mr. Putin, and the two leaders then talked, with Mr. Putin’s interpreter translating. No American officials were present, and the White House did not confirm the encounter until more than 10 days later, after it was independently reported.<<

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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24 minutes ago, Bucky86 said:

>>The day after the two meetings, as Mr. Trump was on Air Force One taking off from Germany heading back to Washington, he telephoned a Times reporter and argued that the Russians were falsely accused of election interference. While he insisted most of the conversation be off the record, he later repeated a few things in public in little-noticed asides.

He said that he raised the election hacking three times and that Mr. Putin denied involvement. But he said Mr. Putin also told him that “if we did, we wouldn’t have gotten caught because we’re professionals.” Mr. Trump said: “I thought that was a good point because they are some of the best in the world” at hacking.

Asked how he weighed Mr. Putin’s denials against the evidence that had been presented to him by Mr. Comey; John O. Brennan, then the C.I.A. director; and James R. Clapper Jr., then director of national intelligence, he said that Mr. Clapper and Mr. Brennan were the “most political” intelligence chiefs he knew and that Mr. Comey was “a leaker.”<<

- NYT

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2 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

You've done this many, many times. It's been pointed out to you that you don't get to define what this thread is about, and that most people would say it's a much broader inquiry than just "election collusion," many, many times. Honestly you don't even have to read further than the often-changed titles to see this, including the current one. And yet you still do it.

Just noting this for people who still harbor some illusion that you're here in good faith and willing to engage.  IMO you're either a propagandist, a troll or you simply don't bother to read and process what other people post.  At least those are the only three explanations I can think of for you continuing to do this.

There is no question in my mind, should Trump be indicted and found guilty of 50 charges each as disgusting as the next, we will have a subset of people here that say "Ha....Told you!!!!!  No collusion!!!!!!".  We've seen the desperate attempt to define this investigation in those narrowest of terms over and over and over and over and over again in this thread.  And for what?  To "win" that specifically narrow argument.  Kudos!!!!  You win that argument!  Of course, there is the minor issue of all those they oppose "winning" every other argument made in this thread, and being proven correct that Trump is a disgustingly bad President and human being and that his dealings are beyond reproach, but at least there was no collusion!!!

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6 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

>>Mr. Trump later told The Times that he went over to see his wife, Melania Trump, who was sitting next to Mr. Putin, and the two leaders then talked, with Mr. Putin’s interpreter translating. No American officials were present, and the White House did not confirm the encounter until more than 10 days later, after it was independently reported.<<

- Doesn’t Melania speak Russian?

Indict Melania.  Hannity too.

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1 minute ago, Bucky86 said:

I love how Trump thinks so little of our intelligence services that he thinks we couldn't figure out who did it.

I"m sure it was Trump's great idea to have a joint cyber task force with Russia....Putin had to be dying laughing after Trump said that with a straight face....

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5 minutes ago, Banger said:

I"m sure it was Trump's great idea to have a joint cyber task force with Russia....Putin had to be dying laughing after Trump said that with a straight face....

I am 100% confident Trump has referred to them (Russians) as “computer Ninjas” when talking about the subject.  It hasn’t been reported that I know of, but I just know he’s said it and felt great about the phrasing

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1 minute ago, That one guy said:

I am 100% confident Trump has referred to them (Russians) as “computer Ninjas” when talking about the subject.  It hasn’t been reported that I know of, but I just know he’s said it and felt great about the phrasing

he should know because he's a technology expert.

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20 minutes ago, Banger said:

I"m sure it was Trump's great idea to have a joint cyber task force with Russia....Putin had to be dying laughing after Trump said that with a straight face....

That was one of my favorite moments of his Presidency so far.

3 hours later, after watching himself get broiled on TV: "I know that there could never be a task force with Russia..."

But really, the funny part to me is it proves just how simple Trump is.

"Hey, no one could possibly blame Russia for hacking us if we're working together on cyber security! It's bulletproof!"

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1 minute ago, Skoo said:

That was one of my favorite moments of his Presidency so far.

3 hours later, after watching himself get broiled on TV: "I know that there could never be a task force with Russia..."

But really, the funny part to me is it proves just how simple Trump is.

"Hey, no one could possibly blame Russia for hacking us if we're working together on cyber security! It's bulletproof!"

it certainly was one of the dumbest ideas that he "came up with" and that's saying something....

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19 hours ago, OrtonToOlsen said:

This is from Clint Watts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Watts

Imagine you are a FBI Agent working Russian counterintelligence in 2016 and you witness the following:

  • you witnessed Russian hackers targeting a wide swath of Americans including the DNC, DCCC, former Secretary of State & a Presidential candidates staff
  • someone previously targeted by Russian Intelligence joins the Trump campaign and then appears on a stage in Moscow supporting Russia policy and speaking negatively of US policy
  • A Presidential candidate hires a new campaign manager whose not been in the business in the states for years, but has been seen pushing a Russian agenda in Ukraine and has Russian intel contacts
  • an Australian official contacts you and says the Russians have stolen emails of a Presidential candidate & may want to give them to the candidate’s competitor
  • a Russian lawyer & others tied to Russian government visit a Presidential candidate’s son in the candidate’s building in NYC
  • Candidate Trump stands on a stage and calls out Russia and asks about emails from his competitor, says they will be rewarded if they have them and release them
  • website that’s released sensitive & classified documents from US for years, helped deliver a US insider to The Kremlin, begins publishing document & emails during Dem convention, content you know was stolen by Russia. Site administrator once hosted a TV show on Russia State TV
  • A strange, unexpected policy change occurs at RNC convention, the change is a less supportive position toward Ukraine and is advantageous to Russia
  • candidate’s campaign manager goes on CNN and asserts a false terrorist attack in Turkey, one tied to and advanced by Russian propaganda
  • during this time, you watch a campaign associate tweet with a Russian account that’s pointing people to stolen documents from the opposing campaign. The campaign associate predicts something will happen to the opposing campaign manager- his emails are later released
  • as Election Day approaches, Presidential candidate makes allegation, without evidence, voter Fraud & Election Rigging, Russia propaganda echoes this, social media accounts associated Kremlin do the same, at same time, you watch Russian Hackers hit state election infrastructure
  • After election, current President issues sanctions against Russia, but the incoming National Security advisor makes calls to Russian officials from 3rd country, when approached for clarification post inauguration, the advisor lies about contents of phone call w/Russian officials
  • During summer fall leading into the election, you receive raw intelligence from highly reliable source whose proven invaluable on other investigations. source provides intelligence on Russia’s efforts to support a presidential candidate, the info is consistent with other info
  • Before inauguration your bosses, your leaders from all intelligence agencies brief president elect on classified info showing Russia influenced the election on behalf of President elect. President elect rejects intelligence from all your superiors and suggests Russia innocent
  • From the summer of 2015 all the way through the election and after inauguration, you watch as the candidate, president elect and now president offers overt effusive support for Vladimir Putin who you know has been helping the President get elected.
  • Shortly after inauguration, your new commander-in-chief spouts false information about Polish aggression toward Belarus. This is not supported by the Intelligence community you are in, and the only source for this viewpoint is Russian propaganda
  • After firing of National Security Advisor that lies to you agencies investigators, the President corners your boss 1-1 asks him to go easy on National Security Advisor who lies about his conversation with Russians
  • During this period, the President inexplicably and repeatedly asks your boss if he’s under investigation with regards to Russia, despite your boss and other intel heads going out of their way to brief the President about Kremlin efforts to potentially compromise & manipulate him
  • While Congressional committees investigate Russian interference, the President fires your boss for his handling of an email investigation into the President’s opponent, an investigation that helped elevate the President rather than hurt him
  • You later find out a draft memo from President to your boss regarding his firing cited the Russia investigation
  • The President then goes on national television and in an interview says he fired your boss because of the Russia investigation
  • A week after firing your boss, the President invites Russian leaders into the Oval Office, Russian photographers capture the moment, but US media is not allowed to observe. President then brags to Russian leaders about firing your boss
  • Sometime during the spring, if you’re not already aware, you read a news story alleging the President’s son-in-law may have sought a way to communicate with Russia via a back channel not monitored by you and your colleagues
  • During summer, you watch the President attend NATO summit and shove Montenegro PM, in an Interview claim Montenegro is aggressive, might start a war. This mirrors Russian propaganda & you know Russia backed covert operation destabilize Montenegrin election
  • For next year, either you, your colleagues and your organization, FBI, are discredited by President. He mixes true and false information in public disclosures which you are not allowed to respond to. If you do respond, your accused of leaking and could be fired or even jailed
  • Documents & information from confidential sources you’ve pledged to protect, are selectively leaked into public through those who are supposed to provide government oversight. These inappropriate disclosures make your job as an investigator nearly impossible & hurts your sources
  • At some point during the summer or before, you learn that the President’s son was receiving & responding to direct messages from website that was releasing emails stolen from the President’s opponent by Russia
  • 1st two years President’s term, you watch him take a negative, adversarial stance toward NATO and particularly Germany. This strains your relationship with your most valuable intel partners, your Counterterrorism agent colleagues depend on them & they help fight war on terror
  • Over next 2 years, President aggressively seeks meetings with Putin who helped elect him. Need for meetings is not clear. one President meets in private with Putin for 2 hours without witnesses but translator. To this day, you, your bosses don’t really know what was discussed
  • President emerges from private meeting with Putin and on world stage in Helsinki accepts and validates Russian denials about election interference & rejects years of your teams intel work. This badly damages your reputation and partner trust with your organization
  • Separately, your President publicly discusses a Russian proposed partnership on cyber security, this insane concept is mind boggling to you as an investigator as you’ve just spent years tracking these same Russians who just attacked your country
  • Even further, your President publicly mentions a possible exchange where Russian investigators might interview and interrogate you and other Americans about their attack on you and America. A crazy, frightening and bizarre threat to you as a civil servant.
  • Throughout your investigation into Russian interference, you watch as your President’s attacks on the Special Counsel, Justice Department & FBI are amplified and spread in America by the very Russian troll social media accounts and state sponsored propaganda you are investigating
  • Throughout the Special Counsel indictments, hearings and trials, you watch the President and his legal team publicly interject, discredit witnesses and discuss pardons, all subverting the rule of law and justice which you’ve dedicated your life to protect and defend
  • You either know or learn a parallel investigation shows Russians representing a bogus Russian gun rights movement penetrated the political party hosting members who’ve tried to discredit you - you recognize this as a TEXTBOOK espionage/influence op you learned at FBI academy
  • After two years, the Attorney General over you, who appropriately recused himself from Russia investigation, is fired for seemingly no clear reason after taking public lashings from the President
  • Your AG is replaced by an acting AG whose unqualified for position, has limited experience justify such high level appointment, you’ve watched him on TV discrediting your agency and your team’s investigation despite seeing none of evidence or knowing anything Russian influence
  • The same month, the President’s personal lawyer pleads guilty in federal court and says he continued negotiations throughout almost the entire Presidential campaign for a Tower in Moscow. This is in opposition to President’s public denials.
  • You read public reporting that the best apartment in the Moscow Tower project pursued by the President’s business was offered to Russia’s President Putin, the same Putin your President always sides with over you and your agency, the Putin who helped your President win
  • You either knew or learned through a redaction error that the President’s campaign manager was alleged to have lied about providing polling data to a Russian whom he owed money, via a former Russian GRU contact

 

Massive coincidence, indeed

Yeah, but where's the evidence?

I would have also included pretty early on, before most of that stuff happened, that some of your FBI colleagues, alarmed at what they had seen Russia doing, came to both campaigns and warned them about Russian efforts and to be extra vigilant and report any suspicious activity.

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In what universe is it OK for the POTUS to meet with Putin secretly and destroy any recording or notes from the meeting?  Consider the following:

(1) Warnings and evidence of election interference

(2) Formal sanctions

(3) Ongoing criminal investigations, prosecutions, and convictions

(4) Historical relationship between the USA and Russia as foes

I just don't understand how these "meetings" can be rationalized away as harmless or necessary, and why permanently deleting any history of the "meetings" is justified.  Looking at it generously towards Trump, it's extremely reckless.  Looking at it more critically, it's treasonous.

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On 1/15/2019 at 10:54 AM, Sweet J said:

I don’t think there is any doubt that Trump is comprised. Now I’m having to give serious consideration that people like Graham are too. These are crazy times. 

I think it's easier to assume that Trump is an idiot and is being used by Russia (and China) to destabilize the U.S. and Graham realizes this and is seeing the Republican party dragged down with Trump and will do anything to save it.

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26 minutes ago, AAABatteries said:

I think it's easier to assume that Trump is an idiot and is being used by Russia (and China) to destabilize the U.S. and Graham realizes this and is seeing the Republican party dragged down with Trump and will do anything to save it.

This is a confusing post. Previously a Trump critic, Graham is now his biggest ally in the Senate. If Trump is dragging the Republican party down, how does enabling him help it?

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1 hour ago, Mookie said:

In what universe is it OK for the POTUS to meet with Putin secretly and destroy any recording or notes from the meeting?  Consider the following:

(1) Warnings and evidence of election interference

(2) Formal sanctions

(3) Ongoing criminal investigations, prosecutions, and convictions

(4) Historical relationship between the USA and Russia as foes

I just don't understand how these "meetings" can be rationalized away as harmless or necessary, and why permanently deleting any history of the "meetings" is justified.  Looking at it generously towards Trump, it's extremely reckless.  Looking at it more critically, it's treasonous.

I know I like to do this every so often but:

Let's just imagine the Fox News crowd had Obama or Hillary destroyed notes from a meeting with any foreign leader, much less the leader of a nation who just attacked us.

They'd be standing at the White House with pitchforks as we speak.

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On 3/20/2018 at 2:19 AM, lakerstan said:

Don’t forget about the “sex coach”, Anastasia Vashukevich, from Belarus sitting in a prison in Thailand with supposed evidence.

Update: Vashukevich is being deported. It's not clear if this means Belarus her home country or Russia where she was living.

Quote

Vashukevich indicated she would turn over the recordings she claimed to have if the U.S. could help secure her release, but later withdrew the offer, suggesting that she and Deripaska had reached an agreement.

 

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26 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

This is a confusing post. Previously a Trump critic, Graham is now his biggest ally in the Senate. If Trump is dragging the Republican party down, how does enabling him help it?

Lots of Republicans were Trumps critics before he was elected and some even after.  They change with the wind.  You really think an easier explanation is Graham is compromised?  I'm not even saying he is or he isn't - I'm just talking what is the easier explanation.  They are doing what they can to keep themselves and their party relevant and in power.  Most everything else becomes secondary. 

As for enabling him - I think a good number of Republican politicians are just hoping to run out the clock on Trump's presidency.  Pray he doesn't do something even more dumb than he already has and then the day after he doesn't get re-elected they will trash him.

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Put another way - the damage to the Republican party is pretty severe either way - but I think their thinking is it's worse if he gets impeached than if he just doesn't get re-elected.  They get their cake and eat it too for the next 2 years and hope that there's enough Republicans who hated Trump will come back in to the fold after he's gone.  What else are they supposed to do - grow a backbone and have the moral fiber to stand up to him?  Not going to happen and honestly I wouldn't expect that to happen from 90% or more of politicians in similar situations.  I don't like it but it's what I believe.

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I mean, come on - do we really think Republicans are going to continue to side with Trump once he's gone and his usefulness to them is over (SC justices)?  They all hated him before he was elected - they'll hate him after he's gone.  I think that's one of the minor flaws in Democrats thinking - that the Republican base won't shift ideas and position to whoever is the next 'R'.  They hate liberals and D's more than having a true set of ideals they believe in.  The problem for Republicans is the group of people that buy in to what they are currently selling is dwindling - they will have to shift in the long-term.  In the short term they may continue with this nationalism and anti-immigration crap but it's not a long-term winning strategy. 

Hell, I can see it now - in 10 years the next Bernie will come along and Tim will be a Republican again because the Democrats are too progressive and anti-capitalism and the R's finally shifted to be more moderate.

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so sad...couldn't happen to a nicer crook...

Cheri Jacobus‏Verified account @CheriJacobus

Report: Devin Nunes Under Investigation By Robert Mueller @highbrow_nobrow

https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/news/report-devin-nunes-under-investigation-by-robert-mueller-5c-aZbXSiU2BshKVhQnuZw/?utm_source=Amplify&amp;utm_medium=Intellectualist&amp;utm_campaign=Twitter&amp;utm_term=Cheri

Edited by Banger
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1 minute ago, Banger said:

so sad...couldn't happen to a nice crook...

Cheri Jacobus‏Verified account @CheriJacobus

Report: Devin Nunes Under Investigation By Robert Mueller @highbrow_nobrow

https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/news/report-devin-nunes-under-investigation-by-robert-mueller-5c-aZbXSiU2BshKVhQnuZw/?utm_source=Amplify&amp;utm_medium=Intellectualist&amp;utm_campaign=Twitter&amp;utm_term=Cheri

Besides Trump, there's no one I'd rather see rot in a prison cell than Devin Nunes.

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It comes down to politics, simple as that IMO.

The GOP isn't getting off the Trump train until the moment it is no longer politically wise to do so, and not a second sooner.

Not for the good of the country.

Not to uphold the law.

Not to "save" the GOP.

They'll do it if it means they get re-elected because of it.

Nothing else matters.

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NEW: Senate just BLOCKED a Chuck Schumer measure that would prevent the Trump admin from lifting sanctions on three firms linked to Russian oligarch and Putin ally Oleg Deripaska. The vote in the GOP-led Senate was 57-42, short of the 60 needed to move it to a final vote.

These 11 Republicans voted with Democrats to advance the Schumer resolution related to sanctions on Russian firms *Boozman *Collins *Cotton *Daines *Gardner *Hawley *Kennedy *Moran *McSally *Rubio *Sasse

The Twitters

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