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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn


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1 minute ago, matuski said:

The 35 indictments are indicative of the size net that has now been cast.  I have predicted from the beginning that this would be the left's claim to victory, collateral damage  - you won't get Trump but will celebrate the validity of this mess because you got so many people around him.  The right will claim victory because Trump is still standing.

And in the end - a farce.  

The investigation has always been about Russian interference in the elections. That's always been the scope. 35 indictments and counting is about as far from a farcical outcome as you can get. It's a very serious and disturbing outcome in fact. How come you aren't as upset about all the people who actively tried to line their own pockets at the expense of the citizens of the U.S., compromising the validity of our government, in this thing as you seem to be over not yet having proven interference by Trump himself?

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1 minute ago, Henry Ford said:

His campaign manager gave GOP political targeting data to an ex GRU Russian who is Deripaska’s right hand man. 

Again - because people can't seem to comprehend the truth of it.  I can't stand Trump.

If after 2 years of telling me how Trump is going down for collusion, you nail his campaign manager?  Alright... congrats?

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

What facts?

When the investigation ends, the one fact I predict remains: Trump will still be President of the United States.

He may be and many have said that is most likely.  That’s does not make the investigation a farce...the facts are the investigation has turned out many indictments and criminals connected with a trump, the Trump .org, and the Trumo campaign.  Calling it a farce is laughable.

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

What facts?

When the investigation ends, the one fact I predict remains: Trump will still be President of the United States.

And the TDS crowd will still be screaming "muh Russia" " impeach"

These people are all in and until Trump's entire family is in prison they will not stop.

They make Putin look like a kitten.

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6 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

The investigation has always been about Russian interference in the elections. That's always been the scope. 35 indictments and counting is about as far from a farcical outcome as you can get. It's a very serious and disturbing outcome in fact. How come you aren't as upset about all the people who actively tried to line their own pockets at the expense of the citizens of the U.S., compromising the validity of our government, in this thing as you seem to be over not yet having proven interference by Trump himself?

I am very aware that politicians lie, cheat, and steal.

I am also aware that Russia interfered or tried to interfere with our elections.

If these two facts are what we have verified after this much time and effort, I will be in tears... I don't know if I will be crying laughing or crying crying or both.

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18 minutes ago, Mr. Ham said:

I don’t care what she claimed. She betrayed the confidence of an oligarch and was dragged from the airport by thugs to what is almost assuredly torture and death.  Yes - that’s terrifying. (I don’t understand your laughing at it).  

Really? 🤔

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Man, I was waaaay off on BuzzFeed News.  They had a good reputation as far as I’d heard, and I assumed they’d be extra-careful with something like this.  I was wrong. In times like this it’s easy to lose sight of the fact that outlets like the Post and the network news services have earned their reputations over decades, and that matters.

Lesson learned, or at least refreshed.

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2 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Regarding SDNY & Mueller, I find it interesting they brought Cohen back into court for one more charge (lying to Congress), but then at sentencing they painted very different pictures. SDNY basically said this guys scum, throw the book at him your honor, and Mueller said “concurrent to the other 7 (8?) charges brought by SDNY is fine, no need to tack on a few more for lying to the Congressional Committee.”

He was offered cooperation by SDNY, and he specifically turned it down.  The story was that he was worried he'd end up implicating all kind of friends and family on more common, non-traitor crimes if they kept asking questions and he answered them.  So the deal for Cohen was no additional time for the Mueller crimes.

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2 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Man, I was waaaay off on BuzzFeed News.  They had a good reputation as far as I’d heard, and I assumed they’d be extra-careful with something like this.  I was wrong. In times like this it’s easy to lose sight of the fact that outlets like the Post and the network news services have earned their reputations over decades, and that matters.

Lesson learned, or at least refreshed.

I believe this thread's following has been duped by buzzfeed a couple few times now.  Going back 2 years or more?

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7 minutes ago, matuski said:

I am very aware that politicians lie, cheat, and steal.

eta - specifically I am aware that Trump epitomizes all of this.

I am also aware that Russia interfered or tried to interfere with our elections.

If these two facts are what we have verified after this much time and effort, I will be in tears... I don't know if I will be crying laughing or crying crying or both.

Seems like you really don't understand what Mueller's investigation is about, even after all this time. It's within the scope of the Justice Department - their job is to carry out justice against people who have perpetrated crimes within/against this country. That's what's being done in this investigation, 35 times already they've identified people who have done that. I count those as 35 new "facts" that have been "verified" by this investigation. Well worth it to get those people out of circulation and curtailing them from doing any more damage.

 

Edited by Gr00vus
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16 hours ago, timschochet said:

I don’t quite understand though what would motivate the Mueller people to speak out this time. What about all of the other inaccurate stories, like the ones spread by Trump and his allies? I don’t get it. 

I think theis time there was serious discussion at high levels about impeachment. Need to quash that for when the real story comes out.

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43 minutes ago, ren hoek said:

But I do think what’s happened has been blown way out of proportion.  People shouldn’t be talking about treason punishable by death.  

Is it the punishable by death part that has you obstinate? The treason discussion is only a discussion after a federal judge, who saw the unredacted facts re: Flynn, questioned whether the Special Prosecutor had considered that crime. That's shocking... coming from a conservative judge. No one can definitively say at this point what is and is not being 'blown out of proportion.' It goes without saying evidence must ultimately support any legal indictment, and we know little what evidence exists or doesn't exist.

However, when you see a president espousing unprecedented propaganda of an adversary (Montenegro threat, Afghanistan history), threatening to pull out of NATO, relieving sanctions on an Oligarch... all of which deliver unmistakable favor to an adversarial government through use of one's government power... well, everything from coincidence to outright treason is on the table. Honestly, if pulling US out of NATO, leaving the U.S. and other nations without formal joint defense agreement in place, and the purpose is to curry favor with Russia, I can't frankly think of a more outrageous form of treason. I don't think it's possible to blow that out of proportion. Selling secrets? That's child's play stuff by comparison.   

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15 minutes ago, matuski said:

Again - because people can't seem to comprehend the truth of it.  I can't stand Trump.

If after 2 years of telling me how Trump is going down for collusion, you nail his campaign manager?  Alright... congrats?

You seriously think Trump did not know what his campaign manager was doing? If that is it, then Trump is hopelessly naive and gullible and shouldn't be President.

If you can't stand Trump, why are you defending him tooth and nail?

 

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12 hours ago, timschochet said:

Welcome back to the thread! What’s it been, like 6 months? All of you guys were no shows and suddenly damn you’re all back tonight! 

When you're down 35-7 late in the 4th quarter, catch a pass and immediately hop up and give an emphatic "First Down!" gesture.

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4 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

Seems like you really don't understand what Mueller's investigation is about, even after all this time. It's within the scope of the Justice Department - their job is to carry out justice against people who have perpetrated crimes within/against this country. That's what's being done in this investigation, 35 times already they've identified people who have done that. I count those as 35 new "facts" that have been "verified" by this investigation. Well worth it to get those people out of circulation and curtailing them from doing any more damage.

 

By this justification, I'm thinking we should just have a perpetual and ongoing investigation of politicians in our country.

All for getting criminals out of circulation.  I'm sure the people that fill those voids will be fine upstanding politicians.

 

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5 minutes ago, matuski said:

By this justification, I'm thinking we should just have a perpetual and ongoing investigation of politicians in our country.

All for getting criminals out of circulation.  I'm sure the people that fill those voids will be fine upstanding politicians.

 

Maybe we should. After all they are supposed to be working for us.

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8 minutes ago, badmojo1006 said:

You seriously think Trump did not know what his campaign manager was doing? If that is it, then Trump is hopelessly naive and gullible and shouldn't be President.

If you can't stand Trump, why are you defending him tooth and nail?

 

I don't believe I have ever defended Trump.. maybe on his tax cuts?  I just prefer not to make an as of myself every time the guy tweets something while he takes a dump.  Or when buzzfeed or mother jones want clicks.  Or to hang my hat on these politically driven "investigations".

If this is what you have when this is all said and done - guilt by association, he is a liar, he must have known!....I'm going to be here laughing or crying.  Laugh crying.

Mocking this farce <> defending Trump.

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12 hours ago, timschochet said:

BTW, and I speak only for myself, I would love it if Mueller exonerates Trump and this story goes away. I’d like to move on from it, seriously. I don’t know if that will happen but given a choice that would be my preference. Obviously I can’t stand Trump but I would be far happier if he turns out to be innocent. 

Yeah, if it's proven he's a Russian asset, that would b about the worst thing imaginable for the country. Best case scenario he's just an incompetent boob that surrounds himself with criminals hell-bent at enriching themselves at the expense of the American people. Best case.

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28 minutes ago, matuski said:

Again - because people can't seem to comprehend the truth of it.  I can't stand Trump.

If after 2 years of telling me how Trump is going down for collusion, you nail his campaign manager?  Alright... congrats?

Who told you Trump was going down for Collusion?

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22 minutes ago, matuski said:

I believe this thread's following has been duped by buzzfeed a couple few times now.  Going back 2 years or more?

Because they published the dossier?  Which was proven to be an actual document and has thus far had things prove to be true and nothing proven false?

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Just now, sho nuff said:

Because they published the dossier?  Which was proven to be an actual document and has thus far had things prove to be true and nothing proven false?

Are you acknowledging that this thread has gone down the buzzfeed rabbit hole before, or are you making an argument for the credibility of buzzfeed?

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2 minutes ago, matuski said:

Are you acknowledging that this thread has gone down the buzzfeed rabbit hole before, or are you making an argument for the credibility of buzzfeed?

I’m asking you why you would knock buzz feed for publishing the dossier?

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49 minutes ago, matuski said:

... I just prefer not to make an as of myself every time the guy tweets something while he takes a dump.  ...

You prrefer to make an as of yourself  whenever news swings in Trump's direction?

Sure sounds like Trump support to me.

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25 minutes ago, matuski said:

I'd love to explain this to you, except I don't recall doing so.

 

Then...actually using words...explain the comment about people falling for buzzfeed again?  Considering the only time buzzfeed was the dossier and now this latest.  Also...understand that not even the sc statement says that the report was false.  You get that, right?

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I think farce is certainly the wrong word.

farce /färs/ noun

a comic dramatic work using buffoonery and horseplay and typically including crude characterization and ludicrously improbable situations.

Which part of the OSC investigation fits this definition?

The dossier seemed like a farce at first blush, but it certainly looks less so now.

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43 minutes ago, matuski said:

:lmao:

TROLL TROLL

You are indeed smart enough to never put all your eggs in the collusion basket, but then you try to act dumb and ignorant of all those that do... it is a confusing angle, I admit.

Yes your posting seems to be the very definition of a troll when you do this.  Again...you are making claims but refuse to back them up.  Nothing confusing about as I don’t believe many at all...if any have stated the man will go down for collusion. So confusion would be what I feel when you make such an accusation.  Though not all that confusing given your responses.

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2 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

Now that we know Mueller will speak up if leaks and rumors are untrue, it's mind boggling how that proves how much of what we've been hearing is accurate. Yikes. Trump is in deep trouble.  

Eh... we don't know how much the change in DOJ leadership played in giving that statement. Perhaps it wouldn't have happened under Sessions/Rosenstein

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15 hours ago, ren hoek said:

Nate Silver‏ @NateSilver538

It's too early to know what to make of the BuzzFeed story, but it does seem like, dating all the way back to 2016, the share of stories that aren't on as firm a footing as you'd like has been pretty high on Russia-related stories.

I think it's ok to hold in abeyance on some stories pending confirmation - Cohen in Prague, Assange-Manafort are a couple examples. - However on the flipside I think the press has also been overly cautious at times in reporting what has actually transpired to date in the actual submissions and reports to date. Mueller's message is fine believe what you want to believe but don't act on it until you hear it from him. And it happens all the time with investigation skeptics. 'Oh Flynn was tricked into this, and Papa was cornered into that, oh gosh poor Butina, just you wait'; but what happens when they actually show in court is all that actually matters, all that wishcasting and imagineering on their behalf melts away. Same is true of Mueller supporters. Something else is going to come out of Gates, Manafort, Flynn, Cohen, Papa and the rest of the them, but it won't really happen until you see it in black & white under the signature of the OSC.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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It's funny how the Trump guys pop up like whack-a-trolls every time the media corrects a typo, but when the actual stories get released they are nowhere to be found. If you guys had any credibility, you'd be proclaiming "NO COLLUSION!" every time Rudy accidentally admits that there was collusion.

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1 minute ago, Joe Summer said:

It's funny how the Trump guys pop up like whack-a-trolls every time the media corrects a typo, but when the actual stories get released they are nowhere to be found. If you guys had any credibility, you'd be proclaiming "NO COLLUSION!" every time Rudy accidentally admits that there was collusion.

It's the same couple of guys logging in under different screen names.

 

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1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

Eh... we don't know how much the change in DOJ leadership played in giving that statement. Perhaps it wouldn't have happened under Sessions/Rosenstein

That was my thought as well - this sounds more like a directive from Whitaker than anything else.

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3 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

Man, I was waaaay off on BuzzFeed News.  They had a good reputation as far as I’d heard, and I assumed they’d be extra-careful with something like this.  I was wrong. In times like this it’s easy to lose sight of the fact that outlets like the Post and the network news services have earned their reputations over decades, and that matters.

Lesson learned, or at least refreshed.

WaPo giving its frontpage to that anonymous PropOrNot blacklist was a joke.  So was 'Russian hackers have penetrated the electrical grid' story that turned out completely false.  There's been a bunch of fake news from msm outlets of every stripe in Trump era.  

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3 hours ago, NFL2DF said:

Hillary Clinton gave millions to a foreign agent who worked directly with the Kremlin to affect the US election and spy on an opponent.

But muh polling data.

Crickets.

I think you might be confused. I don't see or hear any crickets. But, since the OSC made their statement, I have seen a bunch of cockroaches crawling out of the woodwork. 

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