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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter whoknew
- Start date
quick-hands
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
It doesn’t bother you that Schiff and the rest of the conspirators spent years pushing this political snipe hunt instead of trying to do something for the people that elected them? Every minute wasted on this lie is a minute stolen from Americans. Schiff is the worst kind of politician, and he has your full support? Think about that.
dozer
Footballguy
Perhaps if the Trump campaign didn’t have so many contacts with the Russians Schiff wouldn’t have been one of the many people investigating him.
it doesn’t bother you that Trump said thousands of time that there were no contacts whatsoever when there clearly were?
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knowledge dropper
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Because the Mueller investigation didn't rely on the dossier...nor was it in their scope to investigate the dossier?
You are once again avoiding the actual questions to move on to new questions. And making assertions about full support that is not at all what I am claiming. And you are most certainly in full support of Donald Trump who has spent years pushing lies and snipe hunts...so this rings quite hollow.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
dozer
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
The mueller/Clinton was a giant snipe hunt. You are right on that. Biden lies don't bother you but trump.
quick-hands
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Nope...just be consistent. And not a shock that you refuse to address any of the points actually made. Just keep coming with new assertions that are not related to the original.
There was no coup...it wasted no money.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Not at all what I have said. Guess its time to end this since you can't seem to stay on topic with what I have actually said...or what the assertions being made even are.
quick-hands
Footballguy
You could have just ended it but since your commented I'll just say this. I read what you say. But I often lose what you mean.
Sparky Big Time
Footballguy
When the government conducts an investigation of this scope there is the cost of actual hours used as well as what was not completed as a result. This was a politically-motivated fraud to harm our political system, either Schiff is a moron and unsuited to his role or he was an active participant.
dozer
Footballguy
British spies were first to spot Trump team's links with Russia
“Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.”
“The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence—known as SIGINT—included Germany, Estonia, and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.”
“Another source suggested the Dutchand the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.”
“Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.”
“The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence—known as SIGINT—included Germany, Estonia, and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.”
“Another source suggested the Dutchand the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.”
sho nuff
Footballguy
The Mueller investigation was a legitimate investigation that I believe actually brought in money.
It was not politically motivated fraud.
zoonation
Footballguy
You're right. Great use of a pardon! Same with Bannon, who ripped off Trump's own gullible supporters. Oh, and Stone.
Sparky Big Time
Footballguy
It was a fraudulent investigation initiated using fraudulent information, we now have all the information and we should all be concerned about how the DOJ behaved.
Today they may have attacked the political elements that you do not like, but what if they turn? What if instead they start setting up Democrats?
Our stance should be wrong is wrong, regardless of political factors.
Herb
Footballguy
While I don't agree with some of your assertions here, I don't have a problem with the Durham investigation itself, as long as it is an actual investigation into actual potential malfeasance. Much of it, IMO, smacks of the same partisan disingenuousness as the Kobach-led voter fraud "investigation" that was a complete joke. But I will wait until Durham is finished (if he ever is) before forming any real opinions.
Welcome back, Ren. I enjoy having your perspective around here, even when I disagree!
dozer
Footballguy
Once again, you are wrong. The investigation was not based on fraudulent information.
If Democrats did what the Trump campaign did, then investigate and prosecute.
dozer
Footballguy
The Truth
Tried to use spoiler tags. can anyone tell me what I did wrong?
As the FBI receives information establishing clandestine contact between Trump agents and Russian nationals from seven allied intelligence agencies in 2015, anti-Trump Republicans are paying Fusion GPS to investigate these very activities. At the forefront of these activities is Carter Page, a man the FBI had previously probed as a possible Russian spy because he admitted to giving non-public information to men he knew worked for Russian intelligence and thereafter—despite having been forcefully confronted by the FBI—crowed in a private letter than he was a valued “adviser to the Kremlin.” And why did the FBI care about Page? Because he was the very first person Trump hired to his national security team in January 2016—six months before the FBI had even heard of the Steele dossier—and was one of the people the seven allied intelligence agencies that had contacted the FBI in 2015 had warned the FBI about.
When Steele sent his first intelligence reports to the FBI in mid-2016 and they detailed troubling information about Carter Page that turned out to be wholly true—
As the FBI receives information establishing clandestine contact between Trump agents and Russian nationals from seven allied intelligence agencies in 2015, anti-Trump Republicans are paying Fusion GPS to investigate these very activities. At the forefront of these activities is Carter Page, a man the FBI had previously probed as a possible Russian spy because he admitted to giving non-public information to men he knew worked for Russian intelligence and thereafter—despite having been forcefully confronted by the FBI—crowed in a private letter than he was a valued “adviser to the Kremlin.” And why did the FBI care about Page? Because he was the very first person Trump hired to his national security team in January 2016—six months before the FBI had even heard of the Steele dossier—and was one of the people the seven allied intelligence agencies that had contacted the FBI in 2015 had warned the FBI about.
When Steele sent his first intelligence reports to the FBI in mid-2016 and they detailed troubling information about Carter Page that turned out to be wholly true—Page did indeed meet with a Kremlin official during a trip to Moscow that he made while he was working for Trump, and he did indeed communicate with the Trump campaign the details of that contact, and he did indeed discuss all the things with that Kremlin agent that the Steele dossier said he did, and he did indeed lie to the media about this secretive contact as the dossier implied he would, and the Trump campaign did hold back this information (and much else about Russia) when Trump was briefed about the Russian threat alongside advisers Michael Flynn and Chris Christie in August of 2016—the fact that Steele had worked as the top Russia expert in one of the seven allied intelligence agencies the FBI had been receiving Trump-Russia intelligence on for almost a year (and the fact that Steele’s intelligence dovetailed precisely with what the FBI already knew about Page) gave it an indicia of reliability. And that Steele didn’t know who he was collecting intelligence for gave it yet anotherindicator of reliability.
When Steele sent his first intelligence reports to the FBI in mid-2016 and they detailed troubling information about Carter Page that turned out to be wholly true—
As the FBI receives information establishing clandestine contact between Trump agents and Russian nationals from seven allied intelligence agencies in 2015, anti-Trump Republicans are paying Fusion GPS to investigate these very activities. At the forefront of these activities is Carter Page, a man the FBI had previously probed as a possible Russian spy because he admitted to giving non-public information to men he knew worked for Russian intelligence and thereafter—despite having been forcefully confronted by the FBI—crowed in a private letter than he was a valued “adviser to the Kremlin.” And why did the FBI care about Page? Because he was the very first person Trump hired to his national security team in January 2016—six months before the FBI had even heard of the Steele dossier—and was one of the people the seven allied intelligence agencies that had contacted the FBI in 2015 had warned the FBI about.
When Steele sent his first intelligence reports to the FBI in mid-2016 and they detailed troubling information about Carter Page that turned out to be wholly true—Page did indeed meet with a Kremlin official during a trip to Moscow that he made while he was working for Trump, and he did indeed communicate with the Trump campaign the details of that contact, and he did indeed discuss all the things with that Kremlin agent that the Steele dossier said he did, and he did indeed lie to the media about this secretive contact as the dossier implied he would, and the Trump campaign did hold back this information (and much else about Russia) when Trump was briefed about the Russian threat alongside advisers Michael Flynn and Chris Christie in August of 2016—the fact that Steele had worked as the top Russia expert in one of the seven allied intelligence agencies the FBI had been receiving Trump-Russia intelligence on for almost a year (and the fact that Steele’s intelligence dovetailed precisely with what the FBI already knew about Page) gave it an indicia of reliability. And that Steele didn’t know who he was collecting intelligence for gave it yet anotherindicator of reliability.
Tried to use spoiler tags. can anyone tell me what I did wrong?
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sho nuff
Footballguy
No...it was not a fraudulent investigation. Even the IG said as much. The investigation started prior to the dossier. The investigation and Mueller would have happened without the dossier.
When you start out an argument using provably false information such as that...it does not make much sense to go further.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
dozer
Footballguy
The above is compiled by Seth Abramson but his sources are widely reported major media.
Is there a particular part that you question?
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dozer
Footballguy
The Daily Caller
Former Trump Adviser Tells A Story About The President-Elect And Prostitutes…
“The New York Times reported that a wealthy Republican donor had paid Fusion GPS in September 2015 to create an opposition research file on Trump.”
Former Trump Adviser Tells A Story About The President-Elect And Prostitutes…
“The New York Times reported that a wealthy Republican donor had paid Fusion GPS in September 2015 to create an opposition research file on Trump.”
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dozer
Footballguy
New York Times article, behind a paywall.
Russian Spies Tried to Recruit Carter Page Before He Advised Trump
Russian Spies Tried to Recruit Carter Page Before He Advised Trump
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
For nothing to do with Russia!Dickies said:
dozer
Footballguy
Garbage.
In the the first two minutes they lie three times.
1- Trump campaign had no ties to Russia. Mueller alone found hundreds of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia.
2- The Steele Dossier is the heart of the Russia investigation. The FBI Started investigating Trump are year earlier than the Steele dossier showed up.
3- The Clinton campaign “went out and hired” Steele. Omitting the fact that Fusion GPS was first hired by Republicans.
Don’t waste your time with these hucksters.
dozer
Footballguy
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Sparky Big Time
Footballguy
sho nuff said:
No it was, we know now that this is the case because the investigation has confirmed this fact, is now resulting in arrests that will continue.
Refusing to accept the outcome from the DOJ because it does not feed your bias does not change the truth.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Confirmed what? Durham has not confirmed anything about the Russian investigation was fraudulent. It was started prior to Steele's work. Steele's work was not what made up the investigation before Mueller or with him. We know that...IG's have stated the investigation was not fraudulent.
I am not refusing the DOJ...Im refusing someone interpreting things seemingly quite opposite of presented facts already known.
Sparky Big Time
Footballguy
Actually he has, we know emphatically that it was a Clinton-originated and fed fraud that resulted in fraudulent documents, and we know that all along the way the people who should have stopped the fraud did not.
If you do not accept Durhams findings I get that, but cherry picking what you believe from the DOJ to serve your bias dilutes your credibility
sho nuff
Footballguy
You are talking only about Steele. Im talking about the actual Russian investigation leading to the Mueller investigation.
The IG ruled it was proper. Durham hasn't even ruled otherwise. If he has...please post such report and quote him. I can easily show Horowitz's quotes yet again...they were already linked here in the last few weeks.
But don't try to get personal about credibility when you continue to show your own bias and are posting things that have already been shown to not be true.
dozer
Footballguy
Here is Durham’s story:
The Trump-Russia probe was launched in July 2016 when a former spy with no prior FBI contacts sent the FBI allegations about a Trump adviser. The ex-spy was being paid by the Clinton campaign.
That’s it. End of Story. Nice and simple, so assemble your talking points.
Despite all this:
The FBI started investigating the Trump campaign in 2015.
Steele had contacts in the FBI going back years.
Republicans first paid Fusion GPS.
The Russians most likely have Kompromat on Trump.
Candidate Trump had a signed memorandum of understanding to build Trump Tower Moscow, and simultaneously kept emphatically repeating over and over that he had no deals “whatsoever” in Russia.
The first guy he hires for his National Security Team is oozing with sketchy Russian connections, and was already under investigation by the FBI. (Page)
Papadoupolus? Yep, National Security team.
Manafort will work for free… while under contract with a Kremlin guy… whom he gave internal polling data.
Flynn. Fired. Found guilty.
Eric Prince, Steve Bannon, my gosh, the list goes on forever with all the sketchy contacts.
The June 10 meeting with the Kremlin lawyer.
Giuliani, Lev Parnas, Igor Fruman, COME ON!
Over and over again, this Russian connection, that Russian connection,
Is It really so hard to believe that a dossier of raw intelligence, which the author admits to be “about 70% accurate”, can be used as part of the evidence to establish probable cause in one FISA?
The only thing that I know of that has been proven wrong about the dossier is the “Michael Cohen in Prague” thing.
And, as is the nature of raw intelligence, much of it can never be corroborated.
The Trump-Russia probe was launched in July 2016 when a former spy with no prior FBI contacts sent the FBI allegations about a Trump adviser. The ex-spy was being paid by the Clinton campaign.
That’s it. End of Story. Nice and simple, so assemble your talking points.
Despite all this:
The FBI started investigating the Trump campaign in 2015.
Steele had contacts in the FBI going back years.
Republicans first paid Fusion GPS.
The Russians most likely have Kompromat on Trump.
Candidate Trump had a signed memorandum of understanding to build Trump Tower Moscow, and simultaneously kept emphatically repeating over and over that he had no deals “whatsoever” in Russia.
The first guy he hires for his National Security Team is oozing with sketchy Russian connections, and was already under investigation by the FBI. (Page)
Papadoupolus? Yep, National Security team.
Manafort will work for free… while under contract with a Kremlin guy… whom he gave internal polling data.
Flynn. Fired. Found guilty.
Eric Prince, Steve Bannon, my gosh, the list goes on forever with all the sketchy contacts.
The June 10 meeting with the Kremlin lawyer.
Giuliani, Lev Parnas, Igor Fruman, COME ON!
Over and over again, this Russian connection, that Russian connection,
Is It really so hard to believe that a dossier of raw intelligence, which the author admits to be “about 70% accurate”, can be used as part of the evidence to establish probable cause in one FISA?
The only thing that I know of that has been proven wrong about the dossier is the “Michael Cohen in Prague” thing.
And, as is the nature of raw intelligence, much of it can never be corroborated.
dozer said:
It is a good story you present, but the truth is Carter Page was working with the CIA at that time. The CIA confirmed with the FBI that very information at the start of all this in 2016. One of the first Durham indictments was for the FBI lawyer Klinesmith, who doctored the FBI documents to hide the fact that they knew Page was working with the CIA. Specifically so they could continue the fraudulent investigation. They didn't want to have to muddy up the FISA paperwork by adding in this information, since it would be the end of the investigation. So they hid the information by design.
Your version is just so much misinformation as to only be deliberate. It is very easy to just search for Carter Page + CIA info and get many stories from all sources right and left. Here is one from the Washington Post, www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/while-were-talking-about-abuse-of-power-lets-look-at-the-fbi/2020 . You can google and find several dozens of articles and stories on Carter Page and even the FBI lawyer Klinesmith who doctored the evidence of his CIA involvement. apnews.com/article/donald-trump-carter-page-russia-b53360172f2fcbd8bc064265baa449e7
dozer
Footballguy
Yeah, you say “working with”, I say was “cooperating because he was being investigated.”
Page had extensive contacts with Russia. That’s the point.
He wasn’t working with the FBI because he was a good American, he was cooperating.
Page was cooperating because he got caught, and admitted to giving non-public information to men he knew worked for Russian intelligence.
"When Steele sent his first intelligence reports to the FBI in mid-2016 and they detailed troubling information about Carter Page that turned out to be wholly true—Page did indeed meet with a Kremlin official during a trip to Moscow that he made while he was working for Trump, and he did indeed communicate with the Trump campaign the details of that contact."
dozer
Footballguy
Durham asserts that the FBI was “targeting a United States citizen” (Page) because of reports it received from Steele.
That's not true.
The FBI had been investigating Page for years, and for good reason. The babe in the woods routine for Carter Page is rich.
Remember that “probable cause”, the lowest standard of proof acknowledged in our criminal justice system and the slim degree of evidence required for a FISA warrant in most cases, was arguably already in the FBI’s possession by July 2016 because of its prior dealings with Page.
That's not true.
The FBI had been investigating Page for years, and for good reason. The babe in the woods routine for Carter Page is rich.
Remember that “probable cause”, the lowest standard of proof acknowledged in our criminal justice system and the slim degree of evidence required for a FISA warrant in most cases, was arguably already in the FBI’s possession by July 2016 because of its prior dealings with Page.
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dozer
Footballguy
Abramson
Durham manages to obscure the fact that the warrant applications and warrant renewals the FBI sought on Page from “October 2016 through in or about September 2017” came after Page was no longer in Trump’s campaign and (for nearly all of that period) after Donald Trump was no longer a presidential candidate.
This latter point is critical because it underscores what has always been the biggest flaw in Trumpists’ many conspiracy theories about the Russia investigation: that not only did the FBI not allege Trump had committed any misconduct with the Russians while the presidential election was still ongoing, it actually went so far as to lie to the New York Times a week before the election in order to hide its investigation.
Durham manages to obscure the fact that the warrant applications and warrant renewals the FBI sought on Page from “October 2016 through in or about September 2017” came after Page was no longer in Trump’s campaign and (for nearly all of that period) after Donald Trump was no longer a presidential candidate.
This latter point is critical because it underscores what has always been the biggest flaw in Trumpists’ many conspiracy theories about the Russia investigation: that not only did the FBI not allege Trump had committed any misconduct with the Russians while the presidential election was still ongoing, it actually went so far as to lie to the New York Times a week before the election in order to hide its investigation.
shadrap
Footballguy
https://nypost.com/2020/05/08/adam-schiff-lied-about-the-trump-probe-and-the-media-let-him/
we know much more now. it was a sham in 2016 because that is what people in power do to maintain power. damn the facts, full speed ahead. Investigate Trump involving Russia. If that doesn't work we will impeach him. we have the votes in the House to impeach, so here we go. we got the press with us to! whoo hooo.
2000 pages in this forum of , well we got him now! the chips are falling and just a matter of time before everyone rolls. so Mueller gets put in charge & asks for the evidence of Trump collusion. Well, there really isn't any. huh?
Basically what he replied to congress when asked about Trump colluding with Russia. huh?
80 million dollars & 3-4 years, but wait you got Manafort for something in 2008? Flynn lying to FBI? charges against 12 Ukraine twitter bots & some mcl process crimes? woopty foofty doo.
congrats.
dozer
Footballguy
You say damn the facts, and then offer no facts.
We did get him.
I mean, we will never “get” the wealthy and powerful in this country, but we know what he did.
Are you aware of all the people from Trump world who refused to honor subpoenas? Who deleted evidence on the phones, who blatantly lied?
What about all the obstruction that Mueller found?
The hundreds of contacts with Russia.
Sure, we know.
shadrap
Footballguy
Russia investigation was bogus from the beginning. Your posts are a reflection of your investment in them from the start so I have no reason your posts will change just because it becomes clearer by the day that it really was a political smear job based on Dem operatives story/lies that Hilliary & her minions paid for. Schiff lied for 3 years that he had the goods on Trump & all the media giants followed the story line hook, line, & sinker & made lots of money on 3 years of junk.
it's okay. I understand. your side & all that. 80 million of our dollars for an investigation into a paid for fraud of a dossier by the Clinton campaign & 3 plus years of "we got him now".
They show exactly what you’d expect them to show: None of the former Obama administration officials who took to the airwaves immediately after Trump’s election to claim collusion had any evidence of it.
Here’s Obama’s director of national intelligence, and CNN analyst, James Clapper: “I never saw any direct empirical evidence that the Trump campaign or someone in it was plotting/conspiring with the Russians to meddle with the election.”
SEE ALSO
House Intel Committee's Russia transcripts reaffirm no collusion findings
Former Pentagon official and now candidate for New York’s 17th Congressional District Evelyn Farkas claimed in a notorious 2017 MSNBC segment that she advised her colleagues to disseminate intelligence so that Trump could not destroy evidence of collusion. Under oath, however, she testified she “didn’t know anything” about Trump staff dealing with Russians.
But what makes the transcripts significant is not what’s contained in them. Rather, it’s what they represent.
Grenell’s deputy at DNI is Kash Patel. He was lead investigator in the Russia probe conducted by the House Intelligence Committee, when it was chaired by Republican Congressman Devin Nunes. He told me for my book “The Plot Against the President” that he and GOP colleagues asked every former Obama official they interviewed if they had any evidence of collusion.
“I’m not asking if you thought it happened or if you heard it happened,” Patel told them all, from Attorney General Loretta Lynch to FBI Director James Comey. “I said, ‘Do you have information that exactly addresses this issue?’ ”
It was when Patel and Nunes saw no Obama official had any that their inquiry changed course. If there was no evidence of the Trump team’s ties to Russia, why was the FBI investigating Trump’s 2016 campaign?
dozer
Footballguy
You’re the one talking about collusion, not me.
Hundreds of contacts between Trumps campaign and the Kremlin? Yes.
Collusion? Probably, for sure an attempt, but who knows what they pulled off. Between the 11 obstruction counts, the destruction of evidence, the shakey joint defense agreement, the subpoenas defied, I’ll go with Mueller’s finding.
