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2021 New York football Giants


Yenrub

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What in the fukkety #### are the Giants DOING? It saves them nothing via the cap and you don't even get a 2nd for him?

 

Giants don't need to go to a 3-4, they barely have the personnel for 2 good LBs.

Edited by The Frankman
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For reference I'll post Roto's breakdown:

Quote

Bucs acquired Jason Pierre-Paul and a fourth-round pick from the Giants in exchange for a third-round pick and a fourth-round pick.

 

It is a stunning move both because of the paltry compensation and because it only saves the Giants $2.5 million against the cap this season while opening a massive hole on the depth chart. It does get JPP's contract off the books moving forward, however, and the defensive end may not have been a good fit with new DC James Bettcher. This move could signify the Giants are looking at NC State's Bradley Chubb with the No. 2 overall pick. As for Tampa, they needed to rebuild their pass rush, and that is exactly what they have done by trading for Pierre-Paul and signing Vinny Curry. With Gerald McCoy on the inside, the pass rush should be much more dangerous this season.

... If I'm the Giants and they don't like the other QBs at #3 or Barkley, trade down. I haven't researched Chubb that much but is he that game-changing you don't take a Darnold/Rosen? 

Edited by The Frankman
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8 minutes ago, daveR said:

Looks like they are committed to a total rebuild, especially in 2019 where they gain the cap space.  Does that translate to QB right away or trading down for a haul of picks?  What say ye?

Have they really committed? To anything? Some of the moves they have made seem to contradict themselves.

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Gettleman has been terrible and given that he is in his mid/late 60s and has been around the league forever, he is the definition of a retread with no innovative thinking.  He shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

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38 minutes ago, daveR said:

Looks like they are committed to a total rebuild, especially in 2019 where they gain the cap space.  Does that translate to QB right away or trading down for a haul of picks?  What say ye?

Not sure since they also signed a 30 year old OT at the league's highest salary, signed a 30 year old RB and traded two picks for an ILB.

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22 minutes ago, RC94 said:

Gettleman has been terrible and given that he is in his mid/late 60s and has been around the league forever, he is the definition of a retread with no innovative thinking.  He shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Yeah his last stint was a historic failure. 

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1 hour ago, The Frankman said:

What in the fukkety #### are the Giants DOING? It saves them nothing via the cap and you don't even get a 2nd for him?

 

Giants don't need to go to a 3-4, they barely have the personnel for 2 good LBs.

They traded for 1 and signed 1 new LBs 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Not sure since they also signed a 30 year old OT at the league's highest salary, signed a 30 year old RB and traded two picks for an ILB.

I think we all would have been much happier last season if Reece had signed a 30 year old OT or a 40 year old for that matter. And something tells me a 30 year old Stewart is going to be better than a 23 year old Perkins

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Not sure I like trading JPP, but I am pretty sure I'm basing that on fond memories of what he was rather than what he is. As far as Gettleman doing a good or job or not... he is addressing the glaring needs that the team has ignored for years. Sadly all pro linemen and first pick HOF running backs aren't often on the FA market, so I'll content myself with the knowledge that he is aware of the glaring problems and isn't just whistling past the cemetery hoping that noone notices he hasn't done crap to solve the problem let alone admit it exists. The damage done by Reese was significant and is going to take more than one or two signings to fix.

 

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I had to go back and check out some info and as much as I didn't like it... I think you kinda had to do the move now.

 

https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/a-combination-of-many-factors-led-to-pierre-paul-trade/269393160

 

Article breaks down the thought process/reasons. One thing I'll correct myself on; yes the move doesn't really save money this year, but it does next year and in 2020.

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According to ESPN Giants reporter Jordan Raanan, USC's Sam Darnold is the only quarterback the Giants would take at the No. 2 overall pick.

 

It sounds like the Giants' scouting grades on Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, and Josh Allen simply aren't high enough for GM Dave Gettleman to consider picking one of the non-Darnold quarterbacks at No. 2. Gettleman has a history of drafting running backs high -- he took Christian McCaffrey eighth overall in Carolina last year -- and he never traded down in any round of the draft during four seasons as Panthers GM. Barring Gettleman disregarding his scouts or reversing course on his historical anti-trade-down stance, Penn State RB Saquon Barkley and NC State DE/OLB Bradley Chubb appear to be co-favorites to go at No. 2.

In what should be a trade-down situation... Giants unlikely to trade down. Giants don't need to pick Barkley and won't get Darnold, it's starting to look more and more like Chubb will be the pick. Ehhh... come on Cleveland, need you to be typical Browns here.

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From Rotoworld:

Josh Mauro - DL - Giants

NFL suspended Giants DE Josh Mauro four games for violating the league's policy on performance enhancing drugs.

He signed with the Giants earlier this week. In a statement, Mauro said the positive test was triggered by a pre-workout supplement he bought over the counter. The 27-year-old logged 22 tackles and one sack over 333 defensive snaps with Arizona last season.

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1 hour ago, RC94 said:

From Rotoworld:

Josh Mauro - DL - Giants

NFL suspended Giants DE Josh Mauro four games for violating the league's policy on performance enhancing drugs.

He signed with the Giants earlier this week. In a statement, Mauro said the positive test was triggered by a pre-workout supplement he bought over the counter. The 27-year-old logged 22 tackles and one sack over 333 defensive snaps with Arizona last season.

I heard the Giants appealed and the Commissioner is expected to suspend Demarcus Lawerence instead. 

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From Rotoworld:

Odell Beckham - WR - Giants

At the annual NFL Owners Meetings, Giants owner John Mara stated he "can't answer that one way or another" when asked if he foresaw a scenario where Odell Beckham didn't play for the Giants next season.

"We're certainly not shopping him if that's what you're asking," Mara continued. "But again, when you're coming off a season where you're 3-13 and played as poorly as we played, I wouldn't say that anybody is untouchable." Although any trade scenarios are likely overblown, what is clear is that the Giants front office has dwindling patience for Beckham in the wake of his viral video that surfaced earlier this month. Beckham is due $8.459 million in the final year of his rookie deal this season and it's possible long-term negotiations are stalled further if Mara's patience has grown thin.

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1 hour ago, RC94 said:

From Rotoworld:

Odell Beckham - WR - Giants

At the annual NFL Owners Meetings, Giants owner John Mara stated he "can't answer that one way or another" when asked if he foresaw a scenario where Odell Beckham didn't play for the Giants next season.

"We're certainly not shopping him if that's what you're asking," Mara continued. "But again, when you're coming off a season where you're 3-13 and played as poorly as we played, I wouldn't say that anybody is untouchable." Although any trade scenarios are likely overblown, what is clear is that the Giants front office has dwindling patience for Beckham in the wake of his viral video that surfaced earlier this month. Beckham is due $8.459 million in the final year of his rookie deal this season and it's possible long-term negotiations are stalled further if Mara's patience has grown thin.

Mara signs off on Mauro but has a problem with OBJ….yeah that’s not hypocritical

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14 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Mara signs off on Mauro but has a problem with OBJ….yeah that’s not hypocritical

John Mara has embarrassed himself, and this franchise, repeatedly since taking over for his father.  Refusing to cut Josh Brown, even though the police had been called to his house over 20 times for domestic violence, was alone more than enough to destroy his reputation with many people.  Only when the public pressure became unbearable did he finally get rid of that POS, however by then the damage was done and he had lost all integrity.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Gettleman continues to make idiotic moves, now signing a 33 year old CB.  WTF does he keep going after aging players for a rebuilding team?  From Rotoworld:

William Gay - DB - Giants

Giants signed CB William Gay, formerly of the Steelers.

Cut by the Steelers last month, Gay did not appear to have a strong market, but he ended up landing in a pretty good spot. After cutting Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, the Giants need help at slot corner, and Gay has played pretty well in that role the last couple seasons. Gay turned 33 in January.

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19 hours ago, RC94 said:

Gettleman continues to make idiotic moves, now signing a 33 year old CB.  WTF does he keep going after aging players for a rebuilding team?  From Rotoworld:

William Gay - DB - Giants

Giants signed CB William Gay, formerly of the Steelers.

Cut by the Steelers last month, Gay did not appear to have a strong market, but he ended up landing in a pretty good spot. After cutting Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, the Giants need help at slot corner, and Gay has played pretty well in that role the last couple seasons. Gay turned 33 in January.

Maybe it's the optimism of the off-season but I couldn't disagree more.  I have no idea what idiotic moves you're referring to.

He's shorn up the offensive line.  Definitely not a completed project but got a LT and some other good signings.
He's acquired the first legit LB since Antonio Pierce... it's been a while.
He's gotten rid of some overpriced contracts for middling talent and got value, and even better out from under the contract of, JPP who is still a very good player but no longer a fit for the scheme and would have been a serious anchor on the cap in the coming years.
Has made solid moves to improve special teams, a perennial weakness, with Michael Thomas and Cody Latimer.

As for Gay, much like the Michael Thomas signing, they are relatively inexpensive signings for versatile vets who can play a lot of positions in the defensive backfield who Giants fans are going to be thrilled to have once injuries hit or do you not remember street FAs being thrown straight into the starting lineup?  

He's seems to be a solid, inexpensive, versatile vet and in today's NFL, you can't just rebuild a team with young players due to the cap.  A good team is generally a balance of youth you hit on and vets you get a good contract on.  If Gay is terrible it's a very "cuttable" contract so not much harm done.

A lot of these aren't "sexy" moves but solid moves to improve the core of the team and improve the salary cap position for the next few years to make more moves.

Edited by Avery
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On 3/25/2018 at 9:30 PM, Yenrub said:

Mara signs off on Mauro but has a problem with OBJ….yeah that’s not hypocritical

I think/hope this may be negotiating posturing and I think a pretty solid one.

You aren't reaching out to other teams but with a wink and a nudge, asked other teams to bring their best offers. Either you get blown out of the water with a great offer or you show Beckham that maybe he doesn't have as much trade value as he thought he had helping get him back on the field.

Contract negotiations are often as much about posturing and perceived positions of weakness and strength than just raw numbers.

Edited by Avery
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1 hour ago, Avery said:

I think/hope this may be negotiating posturing and I think a pretty solid one.

You aren't reaching out to other teams but with a wink and a nudge, asked other teams to bring their best offers. Either you get blown out of the water with a great offer or you show Beckham that maybe he doesn't have as much trade value as he thought he had helping get him back on the field.

Contract negotiations are often as much about posturing and perceived positions of weakness and strength than just raw numbers.

I get what you are saying with the negotiations and all but I think it’s completely unnecessary.

The Giants have all the leverage now. OBJ is under contract now and they can franchise him for the next 2 seasons if they want to. They didn’t need to say anything.

All of this trade talk because of his behavior crap just rubs me the wrong way especially considering the Giants being ok with signing the wife beater Josh Brown and the PED user Mauro

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I moved out of NY over 10 yrs. ago, so maybe I'm not as tuned in as many Giants fans, but from what I've heard/read, Beckham is a strong presence in the locker room, and well respected by his teammates. I haven't heard one bad thing about the guy (other than his on-field antics which don't mean much), until Mike Evans signed his contract (just using that as a time reference, not saying any conspiracy to pay him less). A 7 second, probably doctored video comes out and all of a sudden he's a bad guy? I would hope that the Giants would be more supportive of him, but instead come out with this possibility of trading him? Sounds like the Giants are being run by a bunch of babies.

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53 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I get what you are saying with the negotiations and all but I think it’s completely unnecessary.

The Giants have all the leverage now. OBJ is under contract now and they can franchise him for the next 2 seasons if they want to. They didn’t need to say anything.

All of this trade talk because of his behavior crap just rubs me the wrong way especially considering the Giants being ok with signing the wife beater Josh Brown and the PED user Mauro

I hear you, and not defending either Brown or Mauro, but to the best of my knowledge, nothing either of them did was a distraction on the field and put them team at a disadvantage during the game.

Also, neither of them are angling for the richest contract in the history of the position or are threatening to hold while they have a contact.

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On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 0:00 PM, Avery said:

Maybe it's the optimism of the off-season but I couldn't disagree more.  I have no idea what idiotic moves you're referring to.

He's shorn up the offensive line.  Definitely not a completed project but got a LT and some other good signings.
He's acquired the first legit LB since Antonio Pierce... it's been a while.
He's gotten rid of some overpriced contracts for middling talent and got value, and even better out from under the contract of, JPP who is still a very good player but no longer a fit for the scheme and would have been a serious anchor on the cap in the coming years.
Has made solid moves to improve special teams, a perennial weakness, with Michael Thomas and Cody Latimer.

As for Gay, much like the Michael Thomas signing, they are relatively inexpensive signings for versatile vets who can play a lot of positions in the defensive backfield who Giants fans are going to be thrilled to have once injuries hit or do you not remember street FAs being thrown straight into the starting lineup?  

He's seems to be a solid, inexpensive, versatile vet and in today's NFL, you can't just rebuild a team with young players due to the cap.  A good team is generally a balance of youth you hit on and vets you get a good contract on.  If Gay is terrible it's a very "cuttable" contract so not much harm done.

A lot of these aren't "sexy" moves but solid moves to improve the core of the team and improve the salary cap position for the next few years to make more moves.

I disagree about the o-line.  He upgraded at LT, but you or I would have been an upgrade at LT over Flowers.  He signed a LT who is above average to the biggest o-line contract in history.  I understand the economics of the NFL and that Solder was the next man up so he got the big contract, but IMO they would have been better off going after Hubbard and Norwell, which would have been a better overall upgrade and a better use of the salary cap.  Omameh could be an adequate replacement for Pugh, but still a downgrade IMO.  He let Pugh and Richburg go and IMO downgraded at G and C, so even though they upgraded at LT, which is important, I don't think the o-line is upgraded as a whole.

At LB, he traded for a very overpriced LB who doesn't fit their new scheme.  IMO he did the Rams a favor by letting them get rid of a big salary of a guy who hasn't played as well as his athleticism should have had him play.  Like with LT, you or I would have probably been an upgrade at LB, so he may help there, but he won't be worth his contract at all IMO.

Getting rid of JPP will save money next year, but didn't really help this year.  If he doesn't fit the new scheme and he wanted to get rid of some salary, that only adds to my questions about trading for Ogletree.  That said, I am not against the JPP trade, but I don't think it helps the team much.

Stewart was a waste of money and a roster spot.  I agree about upgrading at special teams and if Gay is cuttable I also agree with you.  However, this is not a good team overall going into the offseason so I wanted to see younger players, not 30+ year olds get targeted.  They already had vets and didn't need to add some really aging ones with really nothing but downside at this point.  This team is now older and IMO not a playoff caliber team, so they will be back to square one in many ways next year with so many aging players.

I don't need or care about sexy moves.  I just don't think they are making moves that fit who they really are, both in rebuilding status and defensive scheme.

 

Edited by RC94
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Interesting move by Flowers.  We'll see if it works out for him.  From Rotoworld:

Ereck Flowers - T - Giants

Giants RT Ereck Flowers was a no-show for the start of the team's offseason conditioning program on Monday.

It's only day one and these workouts are technically voluntary, but Flowers' absence will likely be received poorly by a new Giants regime. The ninth overall pick in the 2015 draft, Flowers has been a bust at left tackle. New coach Pat Shurmur is hoping Flowers will flourish with a move to the right side.

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12 hours ago, RC94 said:

I disagree about the o-line.  He upgraded at LT, but you or I would have been an upgrade at LT over Flowers.  He signed a LT who is above average to the biggest o-line contract in history.  I understand the economics of the NFL and that Solder was the next man up so he got the big contract, but IMO they would have been better off going after Hubbard and Norwell, which would have been a better overall upgrade and a better use of the salary cap.  Omameh could be an adequate replacement for Pugh, but still a downgrade IMO.  He let Pugh and Richburg go and IMO downgraded at G and C, so even though they upgraded at LT, which is important, I don't think the o-line is upgraded as a whole.

At LB, he traded for a very overpriced LB who doesn't fit their new scheme.  IMO he did the Rams a favor by letting them get rid of a big salary of a guy who hasn't played as well as his athleticism should have had him play.  Like with LT, you or I would have probably been an upgrade at LB, so he may help there, but he won't be worth his contract at all IMO.

Getting rid of JPP will save money next year, but didn't really help this year.  If he doesn't fit the new scheme and he wanted to get rid of some salary, that only adds to my questions about trading for Ogletree.  That said, I am not against the JPP trade, but I don't think it helps the team much.

Stewart was a waste of money and a roster spot.  I agree about upgrading at special teams and if Gay is cuttable I also agree with you.  However, this is not a good team overall going into the offseason so I wanted to see younger players, not 30+ year olds get targeted.  They already had vets and didn't need to add some really aging ones with really nothing but downside at this point.  This team is now older and IMO not a playoff caliber team, so they will be back to square one in many ways next year with so many aging players.

I don't need or care about sexy moves.  I just don't think they are making moves that fit who they really are, both in rebuilding status and defensive scheme.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree as we see how this all plays out.

The one point I'll push back on is your polar point that after one FA signing period the Giants are "not a playoff caliber team, so they will be back to square one".  The Giants were a terrible team last year.  3-13 terrible. 2nd overall pick in the draft terrible.  They can take steps in the right direction and not necessarily be a playoff caliber team after one FA signing period.  That doesn't necessarily put them back to square one.

Now we can debate, as we have, whether or not we think the Gettleman's moves have improved the team, I think they have you think he's making "idiotic moves", but after such a dumpster fire of a season, it is setting ourselves up for failure if the only metric of success in the following year is "playoff caliber" or not.

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26 minutes ago, Avery said:

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree as we see how this all plays out.

The one point I'll push back on is your polar point that after one FA signing period the Giants are "not a playoff caliber team, so they will be back to square one".  The Giants were a terrible team last year.  3-13 terrible. 2nd overall pick in the draft terrible.  They can take steps in the right direction and not necessarily be a playoff caliber team after one FA signing period.  That doesn't necessarily put them back to square one.

Now we can debate, as we have, whether or not we think the Gettleman's moves have improved the team, I think they have you think he's making "idiotic moves", but after such a dumpster fire of a season, it is setting ourselves up for failure if the only metric of success in the following year is "playoff caliber" or not.

I can agree to disagree.  If everyone agreed all the time, life would be pretty boring.  My point about being at square one next year in many ways, is that signing 30+ year old players does not move them in the right direction.  Those kinds of players just need to be replaced in the near future anyway since they are on the downside of their careers.  If they were a player like that away from the playoffs, I can see the value in going after them, but not when you are a rebuilding team.

IMO the biggest upgrade and positive change will be for Shurmur to get the team to not quit this year.  That alone will result in some more wins, which is sad.  That's a terrible measuring stick, but it shows how bad last year was.  Also, getting Beckham back will help the offense a lot.

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15 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Exploring a potential three way trade with Bills, Giants and Broncos

I would be giddy if the Giants can that off.

Giants would end up with Denver's #1 (5th overall) + Bills 2nd #1 (22nd overall) + Bills 2nd (53 overall) 

 

That would be a hell of a take.

Thinking about the draft, for the first time in a while as a Giants fan, is that I really don't think I'm going to be upset as long as they don't trade back too far.

I tend to trust the professionals for player evaluation more than me and I'll trust Gettleman until he proves me wrong.  So if they stay and grab their favorite QB or Chubb, I'm cool.  If they trade back to say #5 and grab whomever is left between the QBs, Barkley and Chubb I'm cool with that too.

Gong even further, I know a lot of people will be pissed if the Giants take Barkley at #2 because you "shouldn't" take a RB that highbut he seems like a culture changing player and I'd be pretty cool with that too.  I think the most important thing when drafting that high is not to miss meaning get a really good player.  If they are convinced Barkley is that guy, I say go for it.

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

Exploring a potential three way trade with Bills, Giants and Broncos

I would be giddy if the Giants can that off.

Giants would end up with Denver's #1 (5th overall) + Bills 2nd #1 (22nd overall) + Bills 2nd (53 overall) 

 

This means Denver most likely loses any opportunity at one of the 4 QBs.  Sounds sexy but doubt it. 

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OK Giant Fans !!!! Assuming we do not trade out of it ...

Who do you want them to take with the #2 pick ? - I want Barkley bad !!! 

Who do you think they will take??? I think they will take Barkley ... the sentiment seems to be strengthening and the comments the I have been reading hopefully come true. Face of the NFL, Better than Zeke, Agents want him to refuse to play for Cleveland.

If the Browns take him I will hate them !

 

Edited by monk
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2 hours ago, monk said:

OK Giant Fans !!!! Assuming we do not trade out of it ...

Who do you want them to take with the #2 pick ? - I want Barkley bad !!! 

Who do you think they will take??? I think they will take Barkley ... the sentiment seems to be strengthening and the comments the I have been reading hopefully come true. Face of the NFL, Better than Zeke, Agents want him to refuse to play for Cleveland.

If the Browns take him I will hate them !

 

I'd love to see a trade back to 4 or 5, but if they pick at 2, I'll honestly be pretty happy with any of the top QBs (I'll trust their player evaluation over mine or random people on a message board), Barkley or Chubb.

If they stay at their pick and do any of that, I'll say, "OK.  I can see why that pick works." 

The only remote throwing scenario I see, is if they Giants trade back past 5 and get weak compensation for it.

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Giants released/failed physical WR Brandon Marshall.

 

As expected. The 34-year-old showed zero chemistry with Eli Manning in his lone season with the G-Men, amassing just 18 catches for 154 yards and no touchdowns on 33 targets before going down with a season-ending ankle injury in Week 5. Marshall's release saves New York $5.16 million in cap space. With Marshall gone, New York could make a run at ex-Cowboy Dez Bryant, who prefers to stay in the NFC East.

Hi Dez...

 

Let me be clear: I'm not advocating for the Giants to sign him. However, Giants just let their #2 WR who is their "big" WR (think Toomer/Nicks/Plaxico/etc) go late in FA with the draft not only lacking in star WRs, but alot of them slot guys. Sterling Sheperd is not going to kick to the outside again, and Cody Latimer isn't ready to be an NFL wideout at this point. Dez repeatedly said he wants to stay in the East and it's "not about money", and the move saves them a decent amount to offer him a 1-year incentive-laden deal.

 

I mean Dez and OBJ on the sidelines might cause Eli to retire early, but JEEAAAAAAAAAASSSSSUUUUSSSS that combo of OBJ/Dez/Sheperd in the slot with Engram and Ellison in 2 TE formations would be beastly.

Edited by The Frankman
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19 hours ago, The Frankman said:

Hi Dez...

 

Let me be clear: I'm not advocating for the Giants to sign him. However, Giants just let their #2 WR who is their "big" WR (think Toomer/Nicks/Plaxico/etc) go late in FA with the draft not only lacking in star WRs, but alot of them slot guys. Sterling Sheperd is not going to kick to the outside again, and Cody Latimer isn't ready to be an NFL wideout at this point. Dez repeatedly said he wants to stay in the East and it's "not about money", and the move saves them a decent amount to offer him a 1-year incentive-laden deal.

 

I mean Dez and OBJ on the sidelines might cause Eli to retire early, but JEEAAAAAAAAAASSSSSUUUUSSSS that combo of OBJ/Dez/Sheperd in the slot with Engram and Ellison in 2 TE formations would be beastly.

.... and Saquon in the backfield!

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Giants really do think Eli has a little left in tank, they take Barkley at #2

They will have chance to address the OL if they want to with Hernandez & C. Williams still on the board

Also a couple of defensive players who can help in Josh Jackson & Harold Landry

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8 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Giants really do think Eli has a little left in tank, they take Barkley at #2

They will have chance to address the OL if they want to with Hernandez & C. Williams still on the board

Also a couple of defensive players who can help in Josh Jackson & Harold Landry

Yep. I want Will Hernandez on Day 2.

 

I'm... surprised at Barkley. I would rather have Darnold but the move tells me they think Barkley is special and Webb can be the guy in the future I guess. Now I have to stare at the guy I wanted playing in the same building the Giants play in for the next 10-15 years.

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