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2021 New York football Giants


Yenrub

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9 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Giants really do think Eli has a little left in tank, they take Barkley at #2

They will have chance to address the OL if they want to with Hernandez & C. Williams still on the board

Also a couple of defensive players who can help in Josh Jackson & Harold Landry

Yeah I think Hernandez should be the pick. Not out of the question that they go with Rudolph if they don't believe in Webb

As far as QB ... The only guys I liked are Mayfield (who was gone) and Josh Allen (who is a risk). I would rather take my chances with Webb over Darnold (who is going to bust) or Rosen who has his own ???

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36 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

Yep. I want Will Hernandez on Day 2.

 

I'm... surprised at Barkley. I would rather have Darnold but the move tells me they think Barkley is special and Webb can be the guy in the future I guess. Now I have to stare at the guy I wanted playing in the same building the Giants play in for the next 10-15 years.

You wont have to worry about watching Darnold for 10-15 years ...Jets will be drafting a QB in 3 years 

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1 hour ago, monk said:

Yeah I think Hernandez should be the pick. Not out of the question that they go with Rudolph if they don't believe in Webb

As far as QB ... The only guys I liked are Mayfield (who was gone) and Josh Allen (who is a risk). I would rather take my chances with Webb over Darnold (who is going to bust) or Rosen who has his own ???

James Daniels the center from Iowa might be in the mix as well if they go offensive line

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1 hour ago, monk said:

Yeah I think Hernandez should be the pick. Not out of the question that they go with Rudolph if they don't believe in Webb

As far as QB ... The only guys I liked are Mayfield (who was gone) and Josh Allen (who is a risk). I would rather take my chances with Webb over Darnold (who is going to bust) or Rosen who has his own ???

Beyond the arguments of positional value if it came down to Gettleman seeing all the QBs as flawed one way or the other and not worth such a high draft pick and he wasn't offered what he thought was appropriate value for that pick, I have zero problem with him taking a RB whose collegiate tape was better than Gurley and better than Elliot. Not only a (nearly?) generational talent, but reportedly a high character guy, and a culture changer for the team.

I've seen some Giant fans lambasting this pick but I just can't get too upset that the Giants took the player who is (just about) the consensus best player in the draft.

Edited by Avery
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https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/giants-tab-penn-state-rb-saquon-barkley-with-the-no-2-pick/273491524

 

Giants pretty much in Win-Now mode. I disagree with the "better than Gurley/Elliot" comps (they were trucks to bring down and Barkley is more a jump-cut, elusive guy than them) but it's not like he's going to bust or anything.

 

Now that they locked up RB, the only move left to make is to sign Dez Bryant after the draft. It makes too much sense as Dez turned down a multi-year deal with Baltimore because he wants a 1-year deal to try and strike it rich in FA in 2019. He also wants to stay in the NFC East at all costs.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/giants-tab-penn-state-rb-saquon-barkley-with-the-no-2-pick/273491524

 

Giants pretty much in Win-Now mode. I disagree with the "better than Gurley/Elliot" comps (they were trucks to bring down and Barkley is more a jump-cut, elusive guy than them) but it's not like he's going to bust or anything.

 

Now that they locked up RB, the only move left to make is to sign Dez Bryant after the draft. It makes too much sense as Dez turned down a multi-year deal with Baltimore because he wants a 1-year deal to try and strike it rich in FA in 2019. He also wants to stay in the NFC East at all costs.

 

 

I disagree with the "win now mode" conclusion and push back on the entire theory.

People often see this as polar - you are either trying to "win now" or trying to "rebuild" leaving no room for the vast space between and trying to be competitive always but building for the future.  

I think the conclusion of day one is simple and it's not that the Giants are trying to just "win now".  Gentlemen et al saw flaws in all the QBs that made them not worthy of such a high pick, didn't get an offer they deemed as commensurate value for the #2 pick so took who they saw was hands down the best player in the draft.

I'v seen articles that say that they Giants are in "win now" because they drafted a RB who (often) has a shorter shelf life than other positions but if they are right on him and he hits, Barkley will help this team for the next 7-10 years reads more than simply winning now to me.

Edited by Avery
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1 hour ago, Avery said:

Beyond the arguments of positional value if it came down to Gettleman seeing all the QBs as flawed one way or the other and not worth such a high draft pick and he wasn't offered what he thought was appropriate value for that pick, I have zero problem with him taking a RB whose collegiate tape was better than Gurley and better than Elliot. Not only a (nearly?) generational talent, but reportedly a high character guy, and a culture changer for the team.

I've seen some Giant fans lambasting this pick but I just can't get too upset that the Giants took the player who is (just about) the consensus best player in the draft.

IMO there are no on the field reasons not to like Barkley at 2. I think he is going to be really good in the NFL.

The reasons not to like him at 2, have to do with things like the salary cap and the number of good RB’s available in this draft.

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Just now, Jello_Biafra said:

I don't feel like it was a mistake at all. This will help Eli out big time.

It's just a really big investment for an inexpensive position. Bell is the best RB in the NFL and he can't get his team to give him a second contract. Eli has been fading. His QBR the last 2 years has fallen off back to where it was during his first couple years. He is 37. It just seems like now the is the time to move on from Eli and start the Darnold/Rosen era. If you hit at QB, your team is basically in the playoff race for 12+ years. 

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1 minute ago, Dr. Octopus said:

They are offering him $14MM to play one season.

Right, he's getting the Kirk Cousins treatment. It's not a good thing for RB value. '

 Barkely is about be the 4th highest paid RB in the NFL with a contract averaging $7.8 million. Here is what $7.8 mill/year gets a player at other positions: 25th WR, 20th OT, 16th OG, 12th DT, etc. 

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28 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

It's just a really big investment for an inexpensive position. Bell is the best RB in the NFL and he can't get his team to give him a second contract. Eli has been fading. His QBR the last 2 years has fallen off back to where it was during his first couple years. He is 37. It just seems like now the is the time to move on from Eli and start the Darnold/Rosen era. If you hit at QB, your team is basically in the playoff race for 12+ years. 

I'll take my chances Davis Webb and Barkley over these 2 clowns. Darnold is a turnover machine playing in the friendly climate of Southern Cal ..what is going to happen when he plays in the freezing winds of the Meadowlands? Rosen is known to have a ####ty attitude and he is already embarrassing the team that traded up to draft him ...  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/23329508/josh-rosen-pissed-fell-arizona-cardinals-10th-pick-says-there-were-nine-mistakes-ahead-me

 

 

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Just now, monk said:

I'll take my chances Davis Webb and Barkley over these 2 clowns. Darnold is a turnover machine playing in the friendly climate of Southern Cal ..what is going to happen when he plays in the freezing winds of the Meadowlands? Rosen is known to have a ####ty attitude and he is already embarrassing the team that traded up to draft him ...  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/23329508/josh-rosen-pissed-fell-arizona-cardinals-10th-pick-says-there-were-nine-mistakes-ahead-me

 

 

Perhaps, I’m not a QB expert so maybe Giants GMs didn’t like them. It seems like that is a very contrarian stance but it may be correct. 

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1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

IMO there are no on the field reasons not to like Barkley at 2. I think he is going to be really good in the NFL.

The reasons not to like him at 2, have to do with things like the salary cap and the number of good RB’s available in this draft.

The other side of the argument is that if Barkley "shouldn't" be picked at #2 due to positional value, what "should" Gettleman have done?

He clearly didn't feel he got an offer to trade down that he felt he got value, and it seems to be he is of the opinion that the QBs has enough flaws that they were not worth the pick.  So perhaps you can argue that Chubb was better "value" but perhaps he didn't fit into their new offensive scheme so well.

It's reminds me of the fantasy question "should I drop player X".  The answer is always "Maybe... but for who?"  In the same way if you someone doesn't think Barkley was a good value pick here, the answer should be who else "should" he have taken?

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49 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Perhaps, I’m not a QB expert so maybe Giants GMs didn’t like them. It seems like that is a very contrarian stance but it may be correct. 

Not to be contrarian, but I don't know how contrarian it is. ;)

Most reports I read by football people, sports writers, message board posters have their favorites and think others will bust.  In fact, it's easy enough to find people who think each of these QBs will bust.  It's easily possible then to be of the opinion that you think that none will pan out to be worthy of such a lofty pick and financial investment.

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4 minutes ago, Avery said:

The other side of the argument is that if Barkley "shouldn't" be picked at #2 due to positional value, what "should" Gettleman have done?

He clearly didn't feel he got an offer to trade down that he felt he got value, and it seems to be he is of the opinion that the QBs has enough flaws that they were not worth the pick.  So perhaps you can argue that Chubb was better "value" but perhaps he didn't fit into their new offensive scheme so well.

It's reminds me of the fantasy question "should I drop player X".  The answer is always "Maybe... but for who?"  In the same way if you someone doesn't think Barkley was a good value pick here, the answer should be who else "should" he have taken?

QB or Chubb. Try to trade back. 

 

1 minute ago, Avery said:

Not to be contrarian, but I don't know how contrarian it is. ;)

Most reports I read by football people, sports writers, message board posters have their favorites and think others will bust.  In fact, it's easy enough to find people who think each of these QBs will bust.  It's easily possible then to be of the opinion that you think that none will pan out to be worthy of such a lofty pick and financial investment.

Most of the stuff I listened to seemed to usually be positive on everyone except for maybe Jackson or Allen. I have heard people call this one of the best QB classes of all time. Seems crazy for a team to have the 2nd pick and a 37 year old QB that hasn't played well since 2015, but not come away with a QB or a trade down. 

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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

QB or Chubb. Try to trade back. 

 

Most of the stuff I listened to seemed to usually be positive on everyone except for maybe Jackson or Allen. I have heard people call this one of the best QB classes of all time. Seems crazy for a team to have the 2nd pick and a 37 year old QB that hasn't played well since 2015, but not come away with a QB or a trade down. 

You missed my point a bit here.

Gentleman apparently saw flaws in all the QBs and perhaps Chubb didn't fit where they are going on defense.  So you're saying he should have drafted a QB he didn't really like, a defensive player that didn't fit his scheme, or take an offer that he thought was poor value?

In terms of the quality of the QB class, it seems that it's a quantity of good quality players that is making this class great, with arguments for and against each one without a standout player.  Since a team can only draft one of these guys, it matters less that there are a lot of solid prospects vs one top prospect.

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10 minutes ago, Avery said:

You missed my point a bit here.

Gentleman apparently saw flaws in all the QBs and perhaps Chubb didn't fit where they are going on defense.  So you're saying he should have drafted a QB he didn't really like, a defensive player that didn't fit his scheme, or take an offer that he thought was poor value?

In terms of the quality of the QB class, it seems that it's a quantity of good quality players that is making this class great, with arguments for and against each one without a standout player.  Since a team can only draft one of these guys, it matters less that there are a lot of solid prospects vs one top prospect.

I mean we can't know what Gettelman thought exactly. Sure, if he didn't like any of the 4 QBs after Mayfield and Chubb doesn't fit their D, what about Denzel Ward? Surely a top CB would help the Giants? Even Quenton Nelson would fill a big need at Guard. Guards make double the amount of money RBs make. That isn't saying much since the average punter contract is bigger than the average RB contract though. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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Just now, Ilov80s said:

I mean we can't know what Gettelman thought exactly. Sure, if he didn't like any of the 4 QBs after Mayfield and Chubb doesn't fit their D, what about Denzel Ward? Surely a top CB would help the Giants? Even Quenton Nelson would fill a big need and Guard. Guards make double the amount of money RBs make. That isn't saying much since the average punter contract is bigger than the average RB contract though. 

Agree that we can't know what Gettleman thought exactly but his actions in the draft, as all GMs actions do, speak pretty loudly as to what they think.  He liked Barkley more than every player, except maybe Mayfield.

I just can't get down with the argument that a GM should pass on who they think is the best player in the draft (and frankly many people who say they should have not selection Barkley also think he's the best player in the draft), perhaps a generational talent, that also happens to fit a glaring need, simply because he isn't supposed to take that position at that draft slot.

I entirely get that there is a salary cap, but if Gettleman values Barkley so much, as it seems he does, isn't that what a GM is supposed to do? Take a stance and assemble a talented team with difference making players?

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51 minutes ago, Avery said:

Agree that we can't know what Gettleman thought exactly but his actions in the draft, as all GMs actions do, speak pretty loudly as to what they think.  He liked Barkley more than every player, except maybe Mayfield.

I just can't get down with the argument that a GM should pass on who they think is the best player in the draft (and frankly many people who say they should have not selection Barkley also think he's the best player in the draft), perhaps a generational talent, that also happens to fit a glaring need, simply because he isn't supposed to take that position at that draft slot.

I entirely get that there is a salary cap, but if Gettleman values Barkley so much, as it seems he does, isn't that what a GM is supposed to do? Take a stance and assemble a talented team with difference making players?

Sure and I love Barkley, he’s going to be awesome for the Giants. I’m secretly jealous. To me it’s just the vbd equivalent of drafting a QB in the first round of a fantasy draft. 

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12 hours ago, Yenrub said:

Will Hernandez - G - UTEP

Lorenzo Carter - OLB - Georgia 

BJ Hill - DT - NC State :wolf:

Mighty fine day two if you ask me!!

This is the 1st time I could ever recall the Giants drafting the players they were expected to draft in Saquon and Hernandez. Carter was a great pick ...I dont know much about Hill 

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36 minutes ago, monk said:

This is the 1st time I could ever recall the Giants drafting the players they were expected to draft in Saquon and Hernandez. Carter was a great pick ...I dont know much about Hill 

As much as you can rate drafts before anyone plays a down, IMO Gettleman has had a great draft so far. He has intersected need and value damn well with these players (aside from Barkley) being picked after most rankings I've seen. 

Safe picks yet value picks. 

Although I've seen some Giant fans lament things such as "What about DBs?"  Fact is Giants have six picks and you can't fix every hole on a 3-13 team in a singular draft and one single off-season. Fact is, Gettleman has filled a number of those holes through FA, trades and the draft. So far, well done.

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44 minutes ago, Avery said:

As much as you can rate drafts before anyone plays a down, IMO Gettleman has had a great draft so far. He has intersected need and value damn well with these players (aside from Barkley) being picked after most rankings I've seen. 

Safe picks yet value picks. 

Although I've seen some Giant fans lament things such as "What about DBs?"  Fact is Giants have six picks and you can't fix every hole on a 3-13 team in a singular draft and one single off-season. Fact is, Gettleman has filled a number of those holes through FA, trades and the draft. So far, well done.

... and I posted too soon.

Maybe QB Lauletta will be a great pick down the road, but with OT Crosby still on the board, this pick confuses me.

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1 hour ago, Avery said:

... and I posted too soon.

Maybe QB Lauletta will be a great pick down the road, but with OT Crosby still on the board, this pick confuses me.

... and Crosby still there a round later and passed on again so what do I know? :bag:

 Apparently there are issues/injury concerns there. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Gettleman has done an outstanding job handling 3 difficult situations O'dell, Flowers and Eli Apple. I'm glad to see that they are not giving up on 1st round talent. Flowers is still only 24 has potential to be a very good RT and Eli Apple is only 22 both of them have an opportunity to revive their young careers.   

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3 hours ago, monk said:

Gettleman has done an outstanding job handling 3 difficult situations O'dell, Flowers and Eli Apple. I'm glad to see that they are not giving up on 1st round talent. Flowers is still only 24 has potential to be a very good RT and Eli Apple is only 22 both of them have an opportunity to revive their young careers.   

I didn't realize Beckham was irish.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Entering OTAs, all of the talk at wide receiver centered around how the Giants would replace Brandon Marshall with Dez Bryant as the main idea floated around. The Giants are not going to bring Bryant into their locker room which makes for a very interesting battle at wide receiver behind Odell Beckham Jr. and Sterling Shepard. While Cody Latimer possesses the raw talent to offer the most upside if he wins the No. 3 job, and while Roger Lewis has the experience catching passes from Eli Manning, Hunter Sharp has made the most plays from Manning in OTA practices and it’s not even close. Sharp will push for the No. 3 wide receiver job and he is a similar prospect to Tavarres King who always found success in his rare opportunities with Manning.

I REALLY liked Tavarres King and thought he should stayed over Roger Lewis Jr. Sharp doesn't have the same measurable as King (Sharp is 2 inches shorter at 5'11), but could have the same big play impact.

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2 hours ago, The Frankman said:

I REALLY liked Tavarres King and thought he should stayed over Roger Lewis Jr. Sharp doesn't have the same measurable as King (Sharp is 2 inches shorter at 5'11), but could have the same big play impact.

they really have no depth at WR. I'm surprised they haven't brought in a veteran. doesn't have to be Dez but just somebody who has played in the NFL will do.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

It's been a massive holding pattern for everyone it seems. Giants look like they plan to play Shep more outside (don't like it) and also use a lot of Cody Latimer (hate it). I would hope they sign a vet slot guy, because not sure I trust RLJr.

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30 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

It's been a massive holding pattern for everyone it seems. Giants look like they plan to play Shep more outside (don't like it) and also use a lot of Cody Latimer (hate it). I would hope they sign a vet slot guy, because not sure I trust RLJr.

I think in 2 WR sets Shepard will be on the outside opposite OBJ. In 3 WR sets Shepard will move to the slot, Latimer will come off the bench and go outside.

Again just my guess

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51 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I think in 2 WR sets Shepard will be on the outside opposite OBJ. In 3 WR sets Shepard will move to the slot, Latimer will come off the bench and go outside.

Again just my guess

That makes the most sense. I'm not sure I like Shep playing so much outside (inside Shep/Engram combo is more threatening) or Latimer anywhere (this guy couldn't click with Peyton?)

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Yenrub said:

Giants select Sam Beal CB Western Michigan in the 3rd round of the supplemental draft

 

Quote

The G-Men surrender a 2019 third-round pick to take Beal. At 6'1/185, Beal was forced to leave Western Michigan for academic reasons. He was projected as a top-five player at his position heading into next year's draft, so this could be a steal for the Giants if it pans out. Beal has yet to turn 22 years old and is fresh off a 4.47 forty and 37-inch vertical at his Pro Day. Beal should compete with the likes of William Gay for snaps behind Janoris Jenkins and possibly Eli Apple. The talent is there for Beal to make an immediate impact, though corner is a tough NFL transition. Beal is obviously already behind after not taking part in spring work.

So basically he's very talented but possibly a big dummy. Ok size and great speed.

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On 6/25/2018 at 6:38 PM, Jello_Biafra said:

Ideally, Shep plays the slot. Latimer is a bum, and the Giants are paper thin at WR, so they have to line him up outside. If only there was a veteran WR they could sign to play opposite Beckham, moving Shepard to the slot for good.

Hmmm...

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On 7/11/2018 at 3:44 PM, The Frankman said:

 

So basically he's very talented but possibly a big dummy. Ok size and great speed.

6'1" is Good size not OK and he was projected to be a top 5 corner in 2019 ... it's a potentially great pick for a 3rd rounder.

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McAdoo surfaces to speak to the Post.

Team made a lot of moves he wanted and thinks they win the division.
https://nypost.com/2018/07/12/ben-mcadoo-breaks-his-silence-on-a-giants-team-hes-loving/

Nice things to say about the pass catchers
https://nypost.com/2018/07/12/fired-giants-coach-thinks-odell-beckham-decision-is-easy/

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