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2021 New York football Giants


Yenrub

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This roller coaster might not yet be over...

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A lot of rumblings the #Giants are planning something big today as part 2 of the OBJ trade. Let's just hope that doesn't mean overpaying for two free agents. No point in spending now. The only "big" thing that makes any sense is trading No. 37 overall for Josh Rosen. #GiantsPride

https://twitter.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1105840483757101056?s=19

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18 minutes ago, Balco said:

I think Giants are positioned to rebuild the roster while getting a chance at Tua, Fromm, and Lawrence in the next two years.

They just need to focus on BPA this draft regardless of position. 

They should trade every pick they have this year, load up for next - complete tank like nothing ever seen before, massive rebuild next year. 

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2 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

They should trade every pick they have this year, load up for next - complete tank like nothing ever seen before, massive rebuild next year. 

I would definitely be aiming to keep Barkley healthy (Vernon for Zeitler helps this) but besides that, I wouldn’t be spending money in free agency. 

Take BPA in every round in draft, look at cap situation and figure out who else can go (I would take dead money hits this year).

finish 2-14 and take Tua next year.

 

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3 hours ago, Yenrub said:

My bad I forgot about Saquon during my disgust for this trade last night. So I stand corrected the Giants let go 2 of their best 3 young players in attempt to rebuild.

This trade sucks! Everyone is so damn enamored with draft picks. The draft is an inexact science, it’s a damn crap shoot. Teams are HOPING that they turn their draft picks into guys who can play in the league. You know like OBJ can.

OBJ has PROVEN to be an ELITE level player in the NFL. Peppers has been somewhat of a disappointment in Cleveland. The #17 pick? Is that guy going to be ELITE? If they are lucky he will be GOOD. The 3rd round pick? Give me a damn break!! Cleveland had two of them and they gave the Giants the worst of the two.

Maybe the Giants will get lucky and the this bad trade will work out for them. Kind of like they got lucky when they made the bad trade to move up and get Eli. Yes I think the Eli trade was bad, at no point in his career was Eli five players better than Rivers or Ben

He won 2 Superbowls ... they likely would not have won either of them without Eli.

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41 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

They need to make sure to tank in 2020 for Lawrence and not take a QB this year. 

Some team will tank for him.  Fans will easily forgive the team for doing it too.  Will the Players???

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5 hours ago, Balco said:

I think Giants are positioned to rebuild the roster while getting a chance at Tua, Fromm, and Lawrence in the next two years.

They just need to focus on BPA this draft regardless of position. 

They needed to do that before the trade. This doesn't change anything except we gave away a top WR that they will never get in the draft.

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I'm not sure of the Giants focus now... Giants made a lot of signings today:

 

- Signed Golden Tate, which seems to me the Giants with rotate Sheperd and Tate in the slot. Coleman or Latimer will play the Y in a lot of 3 receiver sets, Benny Fowler is either let go of becomes the #5 WR/Special Teamer.

- Lost BW Webb (thank you!) but re-signed CB Tony Lippett to a one-year contract. Lippet wasn't bad but nothing special, a Webb replacement.

- Signed OLB Markus Golden on a prove-it deal.

 

I have no idea what the plan is, it feels like they should tank but signing Tate to that deal means they aren't tanking. This is the infuriating thing about Gettleman (y'know besides bad deals). He says one thing and does something the opposite.

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3 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

I'm not sure of the Giants focus now... Giants made a lot of signings today:

 

- Signed Golden Tate, which seems to me the Giants with rotate Sheperd and Tate in the slot. Coleman or Latimer will play the Y in a lot of 3 receiver sets, Benny Fowler is either let go of becomes the #5 WR/Special Teamer.

- Lost BW Webb (thank you!) but re-signed CB Tony Lippett to a one-year contract. Lippet wasn't bad but nothing special, a Webb replacement.

- Signed OLB Markus Golden on a prove-it deal.

 

I have no idea what the plan is, it feels like they should tank but signing Tate to that deal means they aren't tanking. This is the infuriating thing about Gettleman (y'know besides bad deals). He says one thing and does something the opposite.

I like the Markus Golden signing 

I wouldn't be surprised (with Golden Tate getting a four year deal) if Getty traded away Sheperd 

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2 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

I like the Markus Golden signing 

I wouldn't be surprised (with Golden Tate getting a four year deal) if Getty traded away Sheperd 

Right. Sheperd and Engram had the slot covered, adding another slot receiver makes little sense to me. Shepperd has talent so maybe he progresses as a wr this year. Hoping to find something positive here.

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I mean I think Sheperd has the goods to play outside so that part of the equation doesn't bother me. but that much money for Tate and $23 guaranteed? That's not a tank team move. Hell, I think the Giants could've gone with Sheperd/Coleman/Latimer/Fowler with Engram and Barkley and been ok, they're going run-heavy with West Coast Offense principles anyway.

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19 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

I mean I think Sheperd has the goods to play outside so that part of the equation doesn't bother me. but that much money for Tate and $23 guaranteed? That's not a tank team move. Hell, I think the Giants could've gone with Sheperd/Coleman/Latimer/Fowler with Engram and Barkley and been ok, they're going run-heavy with West Coast Offense principles anyway.

I would have liked to see them throw some of that Tate money at Daryl Williams who resigned in Carolina for something small, I think it 7m 

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41 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

He’s not rebuilding, they traded obj because he’s a diva. Tate Is really bizarre given their roster though, Gentleman makes some weird moves.

They traded Snacks Harrison, Vernon, OBJ, and let go of Collins so that part seems like rebuilding to me. 

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38 minutes ago, shadyridr said:

They traded Snacks Harrison, Vernon, OBJ, and let go of Collins so that part seems like rebuilding to me. 

Asset Allocation, at least I kinda get that part of the equation.


 

Quote

It's about asset allocation

This is a simple philosophy that was also followed by Gettleman's mentor, Ernie Accorsi, and even his predecessor, Jerry Reese, to an extent. Positions have a certain worth, and paying for more than that is how teams get into trouble. Offensive and defensive linemen, to Gettleman, are just more valuable than safeties - especially "box" safeties like Collins, whom the Giants believe wasn't always adequate in coverage.

"The Giants always used to say, 'This is what we think your player is worth,' and if you got a dollar over that they'd walk away," one NFL agent said. "Sounds like they're back to that again."

It's actually not just a hard financial line either. It's all in relation to the salary cap. Gettleman estimated he has about $27 million in cap space and wants to hold $8 million or so for use during the season. That leaves him around $19 million to use. Was Collins - or any safety -- worth nearly 60 percent of the Giants' available cap space? And the percentage is even higher when you figure the Giants just tendered restricted free agent receiver Corey Coleman, backup quarterback Alex Tanney, may sign a handful of their own unrestricted free agents, and probably need about $10 million to sign this year's draft class.

It was the same justification for the trade Gettleman completed on Friday, sending his best pass rusher, Olivier Vernon, to the Cleveland Browns for guard Kevin Zeitler. The cap hits for Vernon ($11.5 million) and Zeitler ($10 million) were almost the same. Gettleman felt using that money on a starting offensive linemen was better than using it on an under-achieving linebacker with injury issues.

Clearing out the bad contracts 

Gettleman believes in building through the draft and developing his own players, not spending wildly in free agency. He'd rather spend that money to keep the good players he has. But he inherited a roster that had deteriorated from years of bad drafting and was filled with players who were clearly not performing up to their deals. That's at least part of why he traded DE Jason Pierre-Paul (in the middle of a four-year, $62 million deal), DT Damon Harrison (five years, $46 million and traded Vernon (five years, $85 million).

The idea is to take a short-term cap hit in terms of dead money to help clear cap space in the future. And he wants to avoid restructuring contracts too, the way he did last summer with CB Janoris Jenkins. "You don't want to do that," Gettleman said last week. "You do not want to do that. Because that's kicking the can, kicking the can, kicking the can …"

That also explains why they won't restructure Manning's contract, since that would involve extending it beyond 2019, too.

Gettleman, of course, still won't say "rebuild"

Golden Tate signing proves Gettleman thinks Giants can win and rebuild in 2019

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Buried at the bottom of the Giants' press release announcing the big Odell Beckham Jr. trade on Wednesday, was a quote from GM Dave Gettleman about his offseason plan.

"You can win while you build a roster," he said.

I'll say this... this dude is going to shock the world or be fired within 2-3 years.

Edited by The Frankman
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11 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

@rockaction  

Per someone on twitter (so take for what that’s worth)

Francesa’s favorite WR available in free agency was Golden Tate

Wow. I also like Tate, but let's hope Francesa really doesn't have Mara's ear.

Four at 38 M. I wonder how much is guaranteed.

Edited by rockaction
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On 3/13/2019 at 7:51 AM, shadyridr said:

Since taking over Gettleman did the following:

1. Refused to take a QB in last years draft

2. Keeps relying on washed up Eli Manning

3. Drafted a stud RB with NO Offensive Line ignoring all their other issues

4. Traded Harrison, Vernon, and Beckham for practically nothing

5. Let go of Collins for nothing

6. Signed a bad LT to a record contract

After all this, you have a team with NO defense, an old/washed up QB earning $22mil, one extra 1st round draft pick, numerous holes, and a stud RB to build around. Seems like a solid way to rebuild a team. We have a new contender for worst GM in football.

Look at the above.  

Then look at this. 

On 3/13/2019 at 9:26 AM, Yenrub said:

The real problem is Mara

There seems to be some truth in this podcast called "Big Blur Bubble Boy". It suggest that Mara is influenced greatly by Mike Francesa 

Last year I thought Gettleman had lost his mind bypassing QB and taking a RB, or by not trading back and digging in taking a RB with the 2nd pick.  

He could have taken the NY Jet deal and trade down to #6 and still gotten Saquon + 3 extra 2nd round picks.  I put that on him but taking the RB over the QB who Mara favors is all on the owner IMHO.

2nd point is all Mara as is the 3rd point.

Beckham was a thorn in Mara's side.  HE is the one who wanted to dump him and Gettleman is the one who negotiated the extension and said multiple times he did not extend him in order to turn around and trade him.  He got his orders directly from Mara to get rid of Odell no matter what the cost.  

The only way letting go of Collins makes any sense is that Dorsey and Gettleman were throwing out names and Peppers must have come up so he made the deal knowing he had Peppers in his back pocket.

Nate Soldier is all on him, you can blame him for that one but everything else all has ties to Mara's meddling hands.  You can take shots with 20-20 on not trading down and still getting Saquon but taking Saquon and sticking with Eli and many contradictory moves make sense if you figure in Mara IMHO.

Edited by Bracie Smathers
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Since taking over Gettleman did the following:

1. Refused to take a QB in last years draft - The only QB worth taking was gone 

2. Keeps relying on washed up Eli Manning - Washed up Eli is still better than all of the Garbage that was available last draft 

3. Drafted a stud RB with NO Offensive Line ignoring all their other issues - Drafted a once in a generation RB who was clearly the best player in the draft

4. Traded Harrison, Vernon, and Beckham for practically nothing - Vernon was lazy and injury prone and they got one of the best G in the NFL ... Beckham is a cancer 

 5. Let go of Collins for nothing - Replaced him with a younger higher rated S

6. Signed a bad LT to a record contract - Who was rated better than average by PFF even after a slow start

 

Giants have draft 12 picks including 2 x 1st rounders and have cleared tons of cap space for 2020

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30 minutes ago, monk said:

Since taking over Gettleman did the following:

1. Refused to take a QB in last years draft - The only QB worth taking was gone 

2. Keeps relying on washed up Eli Manning - Washed up Eli is still better than all of the Garbage that was available last draft 

3. Drafted a stud RB with NO Offensive Line ignoring all their other issues - Drafted a once in a generation RB who was clearly the best player in the draft

4. Traded Harrison, Vernon, and Beckham for practically nothing - Vernon was lazy and injury prone and they got one of the best G in the NFL ... Beckham is a cancer 

 5. Let go of Collins for nothing - Replaced him with a younger higher rated S

6. Signed a bad LT to a record contract - Who was rated better than average by PFF even after a slow start

 

Giants have draft 12 picks including 2 x 1st rounders and have cleared tons of cap space for 2020

How can you use PFF to praise Solder’s second half but not recognize when PFF had Vernon as the #13 edge defender?

So far I have only heard good things about Beckham from his teammates. The negative things about him all seem to come from outside the locker room.  Do you have some examples from his teammates?

Do you think that the Giants should draft a QB this year? 

If yes, who and with which pick?

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Because I watched Vernon very closely this past season and he was a dog.  He made zero effort on a lot of plays ... Particularly runs to his side. He basically quit the second a runner got outside of him.

You really believe that about Beckham ... You don't trust your own eyes??

I haven't hear many teammates say anything bad about Antonio Brown ... I don't have to 

Possibly Kyler Murray if he drops to them ...Other than that ...I'll trade up next year fro at least 3 QBs who are better than Haskins, Dranold, or Rosen next year.

I'd trade a 3 for Rosen

 

 

Edited by monk
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50 minutes ago, monk said:

Because I watched Vernon very closely this past season and he was a dog.  He made zero effort on a lot of plays ... Particularly runs to his side. He basically quit the second a runner got outside of him.

You really believe that about Beckham ... You don't trust your own eyes??

I haven't hear many teammates say anything bad about Antonio Brown ... I don't have to 

Possibly Kyler Murray if he drops to them ...Other than that ...I'll trade up next year fro at least 3 QBs who are better than Haskins, Dranold, or Rosen next year.

I'd trade a 3 for Rosen

 

 

I would too. Here's the thing. If they truly believe in Rosen, get him and keep Eli and bring him along slowly. If they're on the fence about his talent and just want to take a shot, then they have to start him day one and cut ties with Eli. If he sucks, they draft a QB in 2020.

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1 hour ago, monk said:

Because I watched Vernon very closely this past season and he was a dog.  He made zero effort on a lot of plays ... Particularly runs to his side. He basically quit the second a runner got outside of him.

You really believe that about Beckham ... You don't trust your own eyes??

I haven't hear many teammates say anything bad about Antonio Brown ... I don't have to 

Possibly Kyler Murray if he drops to them ...Other than that ...I'll trade up next year fro at least 3 QBs who are better than Haskins, Dranold, or Rosen next year.

I'd trade a 3 for Rosen

 

 

Yes I believe that about Beckham

My eyes tell me he is a hard working guy that always shows his emotions obviously sometimes to a fault. They tell me that he is a weird cat, flamboyant but not malicious. Management didn’t know how to deal with him but I don’t think many of his teammates had issues with him

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https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/experts-heap-praise-on-dwayne-haskins-after-pro-day-visits-set-up-with-giants-4-other-teams/305469922

https://twitter.com/AKinkhabwala/status/1108420954827489285

 

b-b-but Giants weren't paying attention! No one watched him... Ignore the smoke guys. Dunno how many draft guys you want that like Haskins' makeup and work ethic (Bucky Brooks, Louis Riddick, etc.) but with two firsts you gotta get Haskins. There is no guarantee Giants will be bad enough to be in the running for Tua in 2020.

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Giants coach Pat Shurmur wants to find Eli Manning's successor "sooner than later."

Shurmur hopes the Giants' quarterback-of-the-future can sit behind Manning for a year before taking over. Earlier this offseason, GM Dave Gettleman praised "the Chiefs' model" of Patrick Mahomes sitting behind Alex Smith for a season before getting the starting job. There have been rumors the Giants will pass on a quarterback in the first round, but these comments make it seem like they are looking to draft their next quarterback this year.

It's going to be Haskins or Lock.

Edited by The Frankman
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3 hours ago, BassNBrew said:

How pumped are you guys knowing that you have Barkley to watch next year.  I know I'll be watching any chance I get.

We'll watch Barkley continually facing a stacked line of seven defenders who can play close to the line of scrimmage. The other receivers are all going to be in single coverage because Eli can't throw more than twenty yards any more. What a waste of Barkley's talent. 

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Eli Manning Film Analysis (The Problem With The Giants Offense)

 

This is a pretty legit breakdown of current Eli Manning and the Giants O. Like... I'm one of the few Giants fans not on either side of the spectrum. I look at the opinions and while I think that saying he can be "solid" is a stretch, there is NO REASON he can't be a decent game manager with the weapons he has and a (big point here) better O line that can give him 3 effing seconds to survey the field. This guy brought up some very good points in his analysis that as I Giants fan I can't really deny.

Edited by The Frankman
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2 hours ago, stuckinthemuck said:

We'll watch Barkley continually facing a stacked line of seven defenders who can play close to the line of scrimmage. The other receivers are all going to be in single coverage because Eli can't throw more than twenty yards any more. What a waste of Barkley's talent. 

Would be much more fun to watch with Odell on the outside and Barkley in the backfield. I like the trade for Zeitler but not the one for Peppers

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2 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Would be much more fun to watch with Odell on the outside and Barkley in the backfield. I like the trade for Zeitler but not the one for Peppers

Peppers would need to transform into Collins-lite and that pick be a solid contributor in order for that trade to be marginally ok. Even with star WR value being depressed, it was to this point a bad haul.

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19 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

Peppers would need to transform into Collins-lite and that pick be a solid contributor in order for that trade to be marginally ok. Even with star WR value being depressed, it was to this point a bad haul.

Collins-lite? PFF had Peppers rated quite a bit higher than Collins in 2018 . Peppers is much better in coverage  ... and that was everyones biggest complaint about Collins.

Peppers is going to be great for the Giants ... he loves Jersey having Won 4 HS State Championships (in Giant Stadium). He has only been playing Safty for 2 Years and made huge strides from his rookie year to Soph year ... He is  more athletic than Collins 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-jabrill-peppers-adds-value-to-giants-defense-can-fill-landon-collins-shoes-in-2019

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1 hour ago, monk said:

Collins-lite? PFF had Peppers rated quite a bit higher than Collins in 2018 . Peppers is much better in coverage  ... and that was everyones biggest complaint about Collins.

Peppers is going to be great for the Giants ... he loves Jersey having Won 4 HS State Championships (in Giant Stadium). He has only been playing Safty for 2 Years and made huge strides from his rookie year to Soph year ... He is  more athletic than Collins 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-jabrill-peppers-adds-value-to-giants-defense-can-fill-landon-collins-shoes-in-2019

For this trade to work out for the Giants, Peppers and the 17th pick BOTH MUST be GREAT and the 3rd round pick needs to be good.

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to 2021 New York football Giants

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