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2021 New York football Giants


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3 hours ago, kodycutter said:

All gonna depend on the team they put around him.  The 2005 draft after Eli (4 picks) - 2nd Corey Webster, 3rd Justin Tuck, 4th Brandon Jacobs.

 

Didn't early Eli get benched for Warner at one point?  Or am I imagining that?

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25 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

Didn't early Eli get benched for Warner at one point?  Or am I imagining that?

Warner (5-4) never played for the NYG after Eli (1-6) took over his rookie year.     So, no...but yes, yes you have a good imagination.

Edited by kodycutter
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7 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

I would take any of those three over Jones.  Show me Rosen with that oline and I'll show you a qb that doesn't have 2 fumbles a game.

At least have a little bit of a clue before posting garbage

  • Jones 13 TDs    8 Ints  10 Fumbles 82.8 Rate
  • Rosen 12 TDS 19 Ints  11 Fumbles 63.5 Rate

 

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7 hours ago, The Frankman said:

I don't mind Haskins, he's just not ready yet. I wanted Haskins to sit a full year if the Giants drafted him and learn behind Eli, he has a much higher ceiling than Jones IMHO.

Haskins is terrible and people were flipping out that the Giants had drafted a QB and Eli started the first couple of games 

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10 hours ago, monk said:

At least have a little bit of a clue before posting garbage

  • Jones 13 TDs    8 Ints  10 Fumbles 82.8 Rate
  • Rosen 12 TDS 19 Ints  11 Fumbles 63.5 Rate

 

Just for accuracy, Rosen has 11 fumbles in 16 games started, Jones has 10 fumbles in 7 games started. So his point that Rosen fumbles less than Jones is accurate.

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1 hour ago, dhockster said:

Just for accuracy, Rosen has 11 fumbles in 16 games started, Jones has 10 fumbles in 7 games started. So his point that Rosen fumbles less than Jones is accurate.

Actually For accuracy 11 is still more than 10  ... and 10 fumbles in 7 games is  1.42 per game not 2 per game.

But the real point is ... Jones has been much better than Rosen despite the fumbles.

Edited by monk
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1 minute ago, wgoldsph said:

16 is more than 7

 

The point was the giants oline is better than anything Rosen has had in his career.

Giants Oline Sux ... but Jones has a higher QB Rating than Eli with the same Line ?

Dolphins Oline Sux  ... but Fitzpatrick (80) has a better rating than Rosen (50) with the same line ?

Cardinals Oline Sux ...  but Murray has a better rating (90) than Rosen had on the Cardinals (62) ?

 

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4 minutes ago, monk said:

Giants Oline Sux ... but Jones has a higher QB Rating than Eli with the same Line ?

Dolphins Oline Sux  ... but Fitzpatrick (80) has a better rating than Rosen (50) with the same line ?

Cardinals Oline Sux ...  but Murray has a better rating (90) than Rosen had on the Cardinals (62) ?

 

The only stat of those that really matters is Fitz vs Rosen.  Yes, when compared to a qb with the same line in the same system Rosen has been a total mess. The rest is apples v oranges.  Eli was a dead man walking and the cards are a completely different team on offense this year than they were last year.

I still feel that given an equal playing field Rosen would be better than Jones overall.  I also think that we may be getting to the point in Rosens career where he may be too broken to be salvaged, so it may be moot anyway.  Jones still looks like the same Eli-lite player he was in college, a guy who can't elevate the players around him.

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  • Rosen has been a total mess.  Agreed 
  • Cards are a completely different team on offense this year - Agreed - a good QB makes a big difference which is why the Cards drafted a QB after wasting a 1st round pick on Rosen
  • Rosens career may be too broken to be salvaged - Boy that didn't take long 
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1 hour ago, kodycutter said:

Looks like Halapio (hamstring) may be out on Sunday.  Spencer Pulley would start at C.   Speculation that this is a "polite" benching of Halapio.

Remmers is hurting,   Chad Slade or Nick Gates may start at RT.

 

Think we might be better off at center with Pulley. The Oline seemed more effective running the ball last year with Pulley than this year Halapio ... maybe he is the problem.

RT could be an issue but no worse than what Remmers did this past Monday. The bigger problem is Solder ... he's done and there was talk of him actually getting benched along with Halapio.

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On 10/17/2019 at 2:15 PM, The Frankman said:
On 10/17/2019 at 10:19 AM, monk said:

...I think the Giants will look to move Jenkins to a contender for a pick if Beal can stay on the field. Than Hopefully get Love and Ballentine involved in nickle dime coverages 

Don't kid yourself on that. Instead of getting flamed by top WRs he now is getting torched by the Cole Beasleys, Olabsi Johnsons, and Jakobi Meyers of the world. If the Giants were smart they'd pull the reins back on Baker until he starts doing well on the 3rd string guys and occasionally rotate Baker in. DeAndre Baker is giving up the most Yards Per Target in the NFL right now (13.1).

 

On 10/17/2019 at 2:24 PM, kodycutter said:

I'm hoping they see enough in Baker and Beal to move Janoris for a 3rd.

 

On 10/17/2019 at 8:06 PM, monk said:
On 10/17/2019 at 2:24 PM, kodycutter said:

I'm hoping they see enough in Baker and Beal to move Janoris for a 3rd.

i don't think they are getting a 3rd for Jenkins ... I was just hoping for a 5th. If they could get a 3rd they should make the trade now  

Past the trade deadline but just saw this and it will make any football fan angry.

Check out the 'effort' on this tackle by Janoris.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>  📽️  >>>>>  Janoris Jenkins had the worst tackle effort of all time on Blake Jarwin

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the hell was that? 

Is he injured, lame tackling, or trying to play himself off the team?

These guys who want out of bad situations are ruining the game for everyone.  Why bother to watch let alone pay to see this?

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6 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

 

 

Past the trade deadline but just saw this and it will make any football fan angry.

Check out the 'effort' on this tackle by Janoris.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>  📽️  >>>>>  Janoris Jenkins had the worst tackle effort of all time on Blake Jarwin

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the hell was that? 

Is he injured, lame tackling, or trying to play himself off the team?

These guys who want out of bad situations are ruining the game for everyone.  Why bother to watch let alone pay to see this?

LOL, come on.   He misses that tackle if its flag football too.    Embarrassing.

Edit: At least he didn't go Jermaine Whitehead on us.

Edited by kodycutter
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On 11/6/2019 at 11:01 PM, monk said:

Haskins is terrible and people were flipping out that the Giants had drafted a QB and Eli started the first couple of games 

That's being lazy in analysis; Haskins is not ready now and wasn't supposed to be ready. I've said up and down he needs to sit a year and y'know, actually have a staff that know what they are doing. His ceiling is much better than Jones, who isn't really shrugging of those Ryan Tannehill worries right now.

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47 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

That's being lazy in analysis; Haskins is not ready now and wasn't supposed to be ready. I've said up and down he needs to sit a year and y'know, actually have a staff that know what they are doing. His ceiling is much better than Jones, who isn't really shrugging of those Ryan Tannehill worries right now.

I don't know,  making that call after just 7 games...with who healthy on offense?   That actually might be construed as lazy analysis too.

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1 hour ago, kodycutter said:

I don't know,  making that call after just 7 games...with who healthy on offense?   That actually might be construed as lazy analysis too.

The general consensus in the media is that Daniel Jones is a star and the best QB in the draft no matter how many INTs and turnovers he has because REVERSE MEDIA BACKLASH!!! All I have done is examine to see his strengths and weaknesses to see if he's getting better/improving upon stuff as Shurmur gives him more responsibilities. Right now (key words)... it's one step forward, two steps back. The Tannehill comp is a) my assessment of him pre-draft (stronger armed Ryan Tannehill) b) the nightmare QB scenario where Miami waited 4-5 years for him to develop and he never became the QB he wanted.

 

EDIT: I don't mind the QB looking bad early, Eli wasn't exactly great but by the end of the year you saw mammoth strides he made his rookie year. If Jones end-of-year is similar to the guy we are seeing right now (key word), then like I said earlier you got to make the switch now. I ALSO said he'd have to completely crater for that to happen though... I don't think he has a high ceiling, but at least his issues seem correctable over time. It's similar with Haskins but his ceiling is higher.

Edited by The Frankman
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11 hours ago, The Frankman said:

The general consensus in the media is that Daniel Jones is a star and the best QB in the draft no matter how many INTs and turnovers he has because REVERSE MEDIA BACKLASH!!! All I have done is examine to see his strengths and weaknesses to see if he's getting better/improving upon stuff as Shurmur gives him more responsibilities. Right now (key words)... it's one step forward, two steps back. The Tannehill comp is a) my assessment of him pre-draft (stronger armed Ryan Tannehill) b) the nightmare QB scenario where Miami waited 4-5 years for him to develop and he never became the QB he wanted.

 

EDIT: I don't mind the QB looking bad early, Eli wasn't exactly great but by the end of the year you saw mammoth strides he made his rookie year. If Jones end-of-year is similar to the guy we are seeing right now (key word), then like I said earlier you got to make the switch now. I ALSO said he'd have to completely crater for that to happen though... I don't think he has a high ceiling, but at least his issues seem correctable over time. It's similar with Haskins but his ceiling is higher.

First off Eli was hands down the #1 pick and #1 QB in a very strong QB Draft  ... The Giants traded a boat load to get him ... Jones was the 6th pick in the draft and probably a reach because the Giants didn't want to take the chance of losing him. 

Second Eli sat for a half a season before taking over a decent 5-4 team before rattling off 6 consecutive non-competitive losses. Comparing Eli through his first 7 game is like comparing your boy Tannehill to Dan Marino ... It's not even close at this point.

Third - Eli was on a very good team with some great weapons, a great coach,  a very good Oline and very good Defense. The 2019 Giants have a Terrible coach , a terrible Oline and Terrible entire Defense! And too make matters worse they have been without their #1 WR (who is only a number 2 on most teams) for almost the entire season, Their #2 WR for 4 Games,  and their Stud RB who cant find any holes for multiple games.

Finally ... The Giants have not held back Jones at all this seasons. He's been throwing deep down field,  and mid range over the middle all season long something you still don't see with Darnold or Murray who have been relegated to mostly throws 0-10 yard throws. Jones has made some mistakes mostly with the fumbles but that is what happens when a QB gets hit more than just about any QB in the league. When he has time his accuracy on mid and deep throws is outstanding especially for a rookie.  2nd and Long to 3rd and long he has been been great something we haven't see with Eli for years.

One more thing 

Daniel Jones Current QB Rate is 82.8  ... higher than Eli's was through any of his first 4 seasons 

Edited by monk
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On 11/9/2019 at 10:15 AM, monk said:

First off Eli was hands down the #1 pick and #1 QB in a very strong QB Draft  ... The Giants traded a boat load to get him ... Jones was the 6th pick in the draft and probably a reach because the Giants didn't want to take the chance of losing him. 

Second Eli sat for a half a season before taking over a decent 5-4 team before rattling off 6 consecutive non-competitive losses. Comparing Eli through his first 7 game is like comparing your boy Tannehill to Dan Marino ... It's not even close at this point.

Third - Eli was on a very good team with some great weapons, a great coach,  a very good Oline and very good Defense. The 2019 Giants have a Terrible coach , a terrible Oline and Terrible entire Defense! And too make matters worse they have been without their #1 WR (who is only a number 2 on most teams) for almost the entire season, Their #2 WR for 4 Games,  and their Stud RB who cant find any holes for multiple games.

Finally ... The Giants have not held back Jones at all this seasons. He's been throwing deep down field,  and mid range over the middle all season long something you still don't see with Darnold or Murray who have been relegated to mostly throws 0-10 yard throws. Jones has made some mistakes mostly with the fumbles but that is what happens when a QB gets hit more than just about any QB in the league. When he has time his accuracy on mid and deep throws is outstanding especially for a rookie.  2nd and Long to 3rd and long he has been been great something we haven't see with Eli for years.

One more thing 

Daniel Jones Current QB Rate is 82.8  ... higher than Eli's was through any of his first 4 seasons 

1) ... ok?

2) Tannehill is Jones' comp, not my boy. And it doesn't negate the fact that Jones isn't learning from his mistakes in a manner you'd expect a 1st round QB to learn from. We've been told he's the 2nd coming of Eli with more athleticism... yet people can't compare their growth?

3) You know that's a bold-faced lie. Jones starts out most games making simple one-read and throw short plays, then usually develops into progressions by the mid 2nd-3rd quarter. When the turnovers start mounting they simplify his reads again. In the Lions and Cowboys game they got behind big and he pretty much cut loose in the 4th quarter. The QB rating stat is a byproduct of passing in different eras, you find a lot of QBs with higher numbers.

 

I think it's ridiculous fans can't honestly evaluate young QBs over a game by game basis, yet we crucify QBs for games they played like 10 years ago. You think Bears fans are thinking rosy thoughts about Money Mitch? Browns fans still rosy and optimistic about Mayfield? Heck, you just killed Darnold and you can't be honest about Jones?

Edited by The Frankman
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2 minutes ago, kodycutter said:

Well, that was embarrassing.     

Train wreck, and now the O line is hurt bigtime. WONDERFUL.

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21 minutes ago, kodycutter said:

Well, that was embarrassing.     

Horribly embarrassing ... Giants are actually managing to make Barkley a bad RB. 

Time for Bettcher to go ... they just let up 34 points to the Jets ... The most the Jets have scored this season and more than they scored the previous 3 games combined including being held to 18 by the Dolphins.

The positives are ... Draft pick is looking real good. Jones and Slayton look good despite  having the worst Oline, the worst play calling and 0 running game.

Someone should lose there job because of this.

Sick of the same damn #### ... Run up the middle for 0-2 yards and standing in the collapsing pocket like a sitting duck !!!

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5 hours ago, The Frankman said:

1) ... ok?

2) Tannehill is Jones' comp, not my boy. And it doesn't negate the fact that Jones isn't learning from his mistakes in a manner you'd expect a 1st round QB to learn from. We've been told he's the 2nd coming of Eli with more athleticism... yet people can't compare their growth?

3) You know that's a bold-faced lie. Jones starts out most games making simple one-read and throw short plays, then usually develops into progressions by the mid 2nd-3rd quarter. When the turnovers start mounting they simplify his reads again. In the Lions and Cowboys game they got behind big and he pretty much cut loose in the 4th quarter. The QB rating stat is a byproduct of passing in different eras, you find a lot of QBs with higher numbers.

 

I think it's ridiculous fans can't honestly evaluate young QBs over a game by game basis, yet we crucify QBs for games they played like 10 years ago. You think Bears fans are thinking rosy thoughts about Money Mitch? Browns fans still rosy and optimistic about Mayfield? Heck, you just killed Darnold and you can't be honest about Jones?

The QB rating stat is a byproduct of passing in different eras, you find a lot of QBs with higher numbers.

Different era didn't seem to affect  Big Ben (92.5) and Rivers (86.6) the same way it did Eli (73.4) after their first 4 seasons

And last time I looked Darnold (75.5) and Jones (82.8) going into today are playing in the same era ... Darnold's QB rating has gotten worse from last year to this year (you could argue he has regressed) and Jones QB Rating is up around 106 over the past 3 games  (9 TDs - 1 Int) ... I would say that is a significant improvement.

Don't get me wrong I like Eli Manning  but it took him until his 5th season to become a good QB  ... I think Jones is much better at this point then Eli was and Jones is on a much much worse team ...Not even remotely close.

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6 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

Just saw the handoff fumble to Adams for a TD... Man that was bad.  No excuse bad.  Jones just does not protect the ball.

What do you mean no excuse bad?  His blocking RB didn't get destroyed by a blitzing Adams?

Should he have held on to the ball? yeah probably  .... should he have been hit by an unblocked safety ??? Absolutely not ... There is no excuse for that.

He also got sacked 6 times by a team that only manged 13 sacks in the previous 8 games ... Now there is definitely no excuse for that. 

But regardless it didn't stop him from throwing for over 300 yards with 4 tds and 0 ints for the 2nd time in 3 games ... he  could of just folded and blamed it the ghosts. 

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5 hours ago, kodycutter said:

Has anyone missed Landon Collins or Odell Beckham?    Can't say that I have, got that going for me.

I miss them both.

Collins and Peppers @ safety would be a hell of duo ... I believe Bethea is the lowest rated player on the team by PFF.

Odell with Jones throwing deep to him would probably be real nice and would not allow for 8 in the box. 

Though Peppers wouldn't be here if Odell was

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On 11/11/2019 at 2:37 PM, kodycutter said:

Daniel Jones only the 8th player in NFL history to lose multiple games with 300+/4/0

 

Jeff Garcia
Daniel Jones
Andrew Luck (three such games)
Dan Marino
Tony Romo
Matt Ryan
Alex Smith
Russell Wilson

Only three times in NFL history has a rookie quarterback thrown for at least 300 yards in a game with four touchdown passes and no interceptions; two of those were produced by Jones.

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56 minutes ago, kodycutter said:

Deandre Baker called out in front of team for lack of effort

Glad we traded up for this guy.  

5 Offensive linemen went in the next 10 picks.    What about your "hog mollies" Gettleman?

Jawaan Taylor sure would have looked nice at RT, huh?

In fairness, he has plenty of time to get it right but he definitely should be demoted so Sam Beal can get work. I think it's just too much too fast for Baker right now, the good thing is we've seen a few good corners get roasted their rookie year and come back strong.

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3 hours ago, The Frankman said:

In fairness, he has plenty of time to get it right but he definitely should be demoted so Sam Beal can get work. I think it's just too much too fast for Baker right now, the good thing is we've seen a few good corners get roasted their rookie year and come back strong.

Has Beal been added to the active roster yet?

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3 hours ago, The Frankman said:

In fairness, he has plenty of time to get it right but he definitely should be demoted so Sam Beal can get work. I think it's just too much too fast for Baker right now, the good thing is we've seen a few good corners get roasted their rookie year and come back strong.

Be thrilled if he does a Corey Webster, but wouldn't surprise me to see another Eli Apple.     

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4 hours ago, The Frankman said:

In fairness, he has plenty of time to get it right but he definitely should be demoted so Sam Beal can get work. I think it's just too much too fast for Baker right now, the good thing is we've seen a few good corners get roasted their rookie year and come back strong.

I'd rather they kick Baker in the ### and let both him and Beal get thrown to wolves at corners and Love and Ballentine at FS and nickle 

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17 hours ago, kodycutter said:

If we don't see what Love can do at FS...soon...then   :wall:

What I don't get is this .... 

  1. The Giants Corners, including Jenkins,  suck!
  2. Love was one of the Top Corners in the Draft so the Giants Drafted him
  3. After the draft the Giants switched him to FS  because apparently they were so deep at Corner
  4. 10 Games in to the season ...Love has not been good enough to take a single snap at FS and the Corners still suck!!!
  5. SWITCH HIM BACK TO HIS NATURAL ####### POSITION ... CB!!!!!!!!! Just get him on the ###### field !!!!!!!!!!!
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2 hours ago, monk said:

What I don't get is this .... 

  1. The Giants Corners, including Jenkins,  suck!
  2. Love was one of the Top Corners in the Draft so the Giants Drafted him
  3. After the draft the Giants switched him to FS  because apparently they were so deep at Corner
  4. 10 Games in to the season ...Love has not been good enough to take a single snap at FS and the Corners still suck!!!
  5. SWITCH HIM BACK TO HIS NATURAL ####### POSITION ... CB!!!!!!!!! Just get him on the ###### field !!!!!!!!!!!

The Giants aren't a well run organization 

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Peppers - transverse process fracture  Tate - concussion protocol

 

"Unfortunately for Peppers, he will not be able to play through the injury, a transverse process fracture in his spine. And given that the recovery timetable for is generally in the six-week range, it likely means that the safety’s first season in blue is now over even if the Giants insist there’s a chance he could return."

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3 hours ago, kodycutter said:

Peppers - transverse process fracture  Tate - concussion protocol

 

"Unfortunately for Peppers, he will not be able to play through the injury, a transverse process fracture in his spine. And given that the recovery timetable for is generally in the six-week range, it likely means that the safety’s first season in blue is now over even if the Giants insist there’s a chance he could return."

If it happened on the Kick return that another good reason to fire Shurm the Worm 

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  • Joe Bryant changed the title to 2021 New York football Giants

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