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2021 New York football Giants (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Yenrub
- Start date
The problem is their 2 best Olinemen (Pugh and Richburg) are UFAs. If they lose either one of them they are screwed and if they keep them how much more money is left for O'line FAs. Fluker is also a FA and they waived Bobby Hart ... The line is in a much worse state then it was a year ago. I think they have to move Flowers to Guard and they have to sign Richburg.
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Koya
Footballguy
With the disaster that has been the OL, it seems that would be a GREAT place to start. For one, while a quality and especially stud QB may be the hardest need to fill in the NFL, it's ONE player. A team with great management can find its way to getting at worst a winning QB, and perhaps groom a great one - without having to risk a top 2 pick on a position that has had its share of failures at the top. While I don't follow college like some here, I don't get the impression that any of the top guys are once in a generation type talents. This is not Peyton Manning or even Luck. It's not what Eli provided even IIRC (granted, some of that was his lineage, but that plays a role in knowing whether a guy might be able to adjust, handle the pressure, enjoy the big stage).
The OL is a freakin' disaster that needs a lot of work. We need to get TWO starters from this draft there, and the way to do that is get Barkley if possible (if not, then maybe it's worth the QB gamble, Im just suspect) and then do your homework and go again in the second, or find someone that is a year or so of cultivation away from being a legit good lineman.
RB is just stupid - if you HAVE a great QB AND a solid line, then the immediate returns but huge long term risk might justify adding an elite weapon. But that weapon best be elite and entering a team where that's the key missing piece. It's one of many missing pieces on offense, but it's also far easier to plug and play RBs, with a solid QB and good line than for a really good RB to transform a team that has neither.
FWIW, I'd like to get a QB and groom them under Eli, just not at #2.
Koya
Footballguy
Personally, in a trade down scenario, much as I don't like his antics, Mayfield intrigues me. Because he's 2-3 inches shorter than ideal he can't cut it? Seems to be able to make the throws, seems to be a leader on the field and most of all, the guy is a true winner. In the sense of any number of other great players who just freakin' won - including that guy in Seattle.
Yenrub
Footballguy
His height doesn't bother me nearly as much as the conference that he plays in. I just took a look at the Big12 QB competition percentages for this past season.
Mayfield hit 70% which is great but with the exception of the Kansas schools every other team in the conference was at 60% or higher.
Koya
Footballguy
That's fair... but I've seen him a number of times, and the gut tells me this guys is a player (I mean, it's also redonk stats and all that, but he passes the smell test as a "true winner" which is big for me regarding QBs. Let's be honest, Eli has been brutally awful at times. Sometimes for long stretches... but the guy can also pull a game out, repeatedly, when it matters most. I'll take some inconsistency if the upside is the ability to go a half season at elite levels / do that through the playoffs en route to multiple Super Bowls.
Better than say what we've seen from Cousins, which may be more consistent as a QB, but does he have the elevation in his game to rise to the moment, grasp history, put the team on his back and work magic - on multiple occasions.
Mayfield "feels" like that kinda guy. And while the antics bother me, and he's definitely a bit of an immature #####, he doesn't seem as vapid and hollow a person as say Manziel, who was bent on being a talented and rich screw up.
Yenrub
Footballguy
Part of the fan base wants to get rid of Beckham because of his “antics” can you imagine how they would react to the QB acting in a similar way?
Koya
Footballguy
I have a sense Mayfield might mature a bit there, and also recognize his role as leader of an NFL team, not rah-rah college. Beckham is just a showboat WR through and through.
But yeah, if he did continue the antics, it would not likely be accepted, including by me. Not the Giants way.
Koya
Footballguy
Pretty disturbing to know the Giants are not likely to get one of their top picks for HC - has the organization fallen that much? Personally, I wanted McDaniels, as I'm not convinced that without HC experience their DC is ready to lead a team (lot of brilliant coordinators from that Tree have not panned out, especially in their first go at it).
Who do we think will be leading the G-men next year as HC? The cupboard is hardly bare (other than at O-line, where it's a disgrace)... and it's the NY freakin' Giants. Yet we seem to be less attractive a position than I'd have thought.
Who do we think will be leading the G-men next year as HC? The cupboard is hardly bare (other than at O-line, where it's a disgrace)... and it's the NY freakin' Giants. Yet we seem to be less attractive a position than I'd have thought.
Koya
Footballguy
AND with that, looks like we will indeed offer the job to Shurmur. Not sure where I stand on this - probably a more safe play than McDaniels, certainly has shown the ability to improve QBs (and we are likely going to get a young one soon to hopefully sit a year behind Eli then have a chance)... but not sure I love it. Not sure I don't, either.
IrishTwinkie
Footballguy
Interesting. As I did not want anything to do with McDaniels. I felt that was the worst of the three choices. Was leaning towards Patrica. I agree that the entire tree has been suspect when they finally leave Bill's nest. I am ok with Shurmur. I don't think struggling in Cleveland is really that big of stain. I think he got a bum rap. That particular dumpster fire is going to take more than two years to put out. I do not think there was a slam dunk candidate out there.Koya said:
I do think this whole wink wink nudge nudge thing to avoid tampering is a sign that this process needs to change.
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The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Yep ... that is encouraging but ....
This is discouraging
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22174645/vikings-oc-pat-shurmur-expected-named-giants-coach-week
This article mentions that Shurmur is hiring Jack Del Rio as DC. First I've heard, can anyone else confirm?
https://nypost.com/2018/01/22/pat-shurmurs-next-job-starts-now-whether-hes-ready-or-not/
https://nypost.com/2018/01/22/pat-shurmurs-next-job-starts-now-whether-hes-ready-or-not/
Yenrub
Footballguy
Yenrub
Footballguy
Shurmur officially the Giants HC
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/01/giants_officially_hire_pat_shurmur_as_head_coach.html#incart_river_index
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/01/giants_officially_hire_pat_shurmur_as_head_coach.html#incart_river_index
The Vikings ### kicking at the hands of the Eagles really puts a damper on this signing
Yenrub
Footballguy
It wasn’t pretty but it was just one game so I won’t put too much stock into it
On the bright side the Vikings went to the NFC championship with a sub-par OL and a journeyman QB
Yenrub
Footballguy
I don't like this at all ... the guy runs a 3-4 and he is going to have to adjust to a 4-3 ... terrible idea.
Giants don't have any of the personnel to switch to a 3-4 ... JPP and Vernon are not prototypical 3-4 Ends and Snacks is not a NT. Add the fact that the Giants don't have any good linebackers and now have to come up with 4 starters. This is looking like a 3 year defensive rebuild and that's not even considering the offensive overhaul that is going to be required to fix that O'line, QB and RB issue. Where are these bodies going to come from?
Yenrub
Footballguy
Actually Snacks is a NT. That is what he played with the Jets
I agree about JPP and OV, though I guess that OV MIGHT be able to play OLB
Tomlinson MIGHT do well as a 3-4 end, since the 3-4 end is more run stopper than pass rusher
Anyway time will tell and we just have to wait and see what the new guy want to do. Free agency will give us an idea
Yenrub
Footballguy
We'll see ... 3-4 or 4-3 may not matter but the personnel does. The DL and LB personnel on AZ and the Giants couldn't be more different
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Giants new WR coach, Tyke Colbert
"Tyke Tolbert once held a baby Odell Beckham Jr. in his arms, and now he'll be coaching Beckham as the Giants' new wide receivers coach.
No kidding.
Tolbert, 50, who played wide receiver at LSU long before Beckham starred for the Tigers, has improbable connections to both Beckham and Sterling Shepard, in fact, that go back a long way.
"I played college ball with Odell's dad (Odell Beckham Sr.) at LSU, and I went to school with his mom, Heather, at LSU," Tolbert told The Courier of Montgomery County, the newspaper of his hometown of Conroe, Texas, on Wednesday. "I told Odell when he was born, I held him as a baby outside of our dorm at LSU."
Not only that: Tolbert also knew Shepard's late father, Derrick, from his visit to Oklahoma.
"When I left Conroe High School, I took some official visits before I decided I was going to LSU," Tolbert told The Courier. "One of my official visits was the University of Oklahoma, and when I went there, his dad, Derrick Shepard, was my host. He showed me around the University of Oklahoma the whole weekend."
"Tyke Tolbert once held a baby Odell Beckham Jr. in his arms, and now he'll be coaching Beckham as the Giants' new wide receivers coach.
No kidding.
Tolbert, 50, who played wide receiver at LSU long before Beckham starred for the Tigers, has improbable connections to both Beckham and Sterling Shepard, in fact, that go back a long way.
"I played college ball with Odell's dad (Odell Beckham Sr.) at LSU, and I went to school with his mom, Heather, at LSU," Tolbert told The Courier of Montgomery County, the newspaper of his hometown of Conroe, Texas, on Wednesday. "I told Odell when he was born, I held him as a baby outside of our dorm at LSU."
Not only that: Tolbert also knew Shepard's late father, Derrick, from his visit to Oklahoma.
"When I left Conroe High School, I took some official visits before I decided I was going to LSU," Tolbert told The Courier. "One of my official visits was the University of Oklahoma, and when I went there, his dad, Derrick Shepard, was my host. He showed me around the University of Oklahoma the whole weekend."
Grahamburn
Footballguy
How do you guys feel about moving down to #7 for Tampa's 2019 first rounder?
Yenrub
Footballguy
I can’t find out how future year draft picks are valued but I doubt that this offer would be enough.
Per the draft value charts the #2 pick is worth 2600 while the #7 pick is worth 1500. That’s a 1100 point difference.
1100 points happens to be the value of the #14 pick THIS year
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/
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Giants targeting Carolina Guard Andrew Norwell in free agency. The problem is the Giants are cap room strapped this off-season and have many Free Agents of their own including Pugh and Richburg who they are likely to let walk.
Norwell is a monster. If they can sign him, a LT (Solder), and manage to Keep Pugh or Richburg they will be in much better shape heading into next season. I still think Flowers could be an awesome guard or decent RT.
https://gmenhq.com/2018/01/26/free-agency-rumors-new-york-giants-targeting-andrew-norwell/
Norwell is a monster. If they can sign him, a LT (Solder), and manage to Keep Pugh or Richburg they will be in much better shape heading into next season. I still think Flowers could be an awesome guard or decent RT.
https://gmenhq.com/2018/01/26/free-agency-rumors-new-york-giants-targeting-andrew-norwell/
Yenrub
Footballguy
DRC moving to free safety
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22638284/new-york-giants-try-dominique-rodgers-cromartie-free-safety
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22638284/new-york-giants-try-dominique-rodgers-cromartie-free-safety
Lots of Saquon Barkley Giants love all over the place .... I love it !!!
Saquon is the best RB prospect since AP and appears to be a great well rounded guy ...humble and well spoken. Would luv to see the giants call his name at #2 ... https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/Bolt/Evan-Engram-Its-over-if-the-Giants-draft-Saquon-Barkley-115718336
they would obviously need to sign 1 or 2 stud olinemen and we could get by with Eli for a year or two and pray that Davis Webb turns out to be legit
Saquon is the best RB prospect since AP and appears to be a great well rounded guy ...humble and well spoken. Would luv to see the giants call his name at #2 ... https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/Bolt/Evan-Engram-Its-over-if-the-Giants-draft-Saquon-Barkley-115718336
they would obviously need to sign 1 or 2 stud olinemen and we could get by with Eli for a year or two and pray that Davis Webb turns out to be legit
Yenrub
Footballguy
Jason La Canfora seems to think the Bills will trade Cordy Glenn to the Giants for a 4th round pick.
I guess that would be a good start toward building the OL but Glenn hasn’t finished either of the last 2 seasons due to injury
It would have to be a lot more than Cordy Glenn who will be 29 this season ... to move from 21 to 4 the bills would have to give both of their 1st round pick 21 & 22 as well.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Add Barkley and a couple good olinemen and this is a top 5 scoring offense.
stuckinthemuck
Footballguy
There's little doubt that Barkley will be a star, but would he elevate the team as a whole? I'd rather move down to Tampa Bay's #7 and use that pick to draft the last remaining QB of the top talent this year (Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, and maybe Allen after his performance this weekend), then get an offensive lineman in the second with an extra pick. The existing second rounder can be used for a LB. Then the Giants can snatch up a solid RB from free agency like Dion Lewis if current management thinks Darkwa/Gallman won't suffice, but they may be just enough if the OL can be merely good next year. This plan seems like a "win now" move to get the OL solidified and also plan for the future when Manning retires. Putting Barkley behind a swiss cheese OL will yield some spectacular highlight reel plays, but more likely lead to an inconsistent offense that can't go deep into the playoffs.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
There will be no way to stop both Barkley and OBJ. Eli still has time. I don't hear anyone chirping about the Steelers replacing Ben, or LAC replacing Rivers, both of which were drafted with Eli. At the very least, the Giants will be an exciting team to watch if they take Barkley.
Yenrub
Footballguy
If they make moves in free agency to build the OL I could see them taking a chance on Barkley (if he lasts to #2)
Trade for Glenn + Sign Norwell or Sitton during free agency would be a good start to rebuilding the OL.
Remember Darkwa put up and impressive 4.4 yards per carry behind the pool Giants OL last season.
IrishTwinkie
Footballguy
So far I am liking what I am seeing from Gettleman and Shurmur. I am feeling more comfortable that these guys understand how to build a team than I ever did with Reese and McAdoo. The "hog-mollies" line cracks me up.
The Frankman
Footballguy
The thing I have is RB is a position the Giants aren't hurting at right now. With a "below average" line we saw Darkwa and Wayne Gallman look ok most of the time, and I really like Gallman's ability as a pass catcher. If the Giants go all out on the O-Line I don't think there's any reason the running game couldn't flourish. If they decide not to draft a QB at #2, trade that pick down and get multiple picks to address O-Line and dare I say it... a stud cover LB in the first 2 rounds?
WR shouldn't be an issue with Beckham/Sheperd/RLJr./King (cut BMarsh and save on the cap). There isn't really a need to draft on O for the Giants if they skip on QB outside of the O-Line. Giants seem to be going after Andrew Norwell, and you pair him with a couple of good rooks + Pugh... now that's a revamp.
WR shouldn't be an issue with Beckham/Sheperd/RLJr./King (cut BMarsh and save on the cap). There isn't really a need to draft on O for the Giants if they skip on QB outside of the O-Line. Giants seem to be going after Andrew Norwell, and you pair him with a couple of good rooks + Pugh... now that's a revamp.
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