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2021 New York football Giants (3 Viewers)

I am guessing the Flowers that got himself benched in the final game last year showed up again. I am guessing that either his attitude or words in the locker room sealed his fate. I am clearly speculating, but it is odd that Schurmur and Gettlemen got to the end of the rope now, in mid-season.

Either way, I am glad he is gone.

 
Olivier Vernon (ankle) was removed from the Week 6 injury report and will play Thursday night against the Eagles.

It will be Vernon's season debut after missing the first five games with a high-ankle sprain. The Giants are tied with the Raiders for last in sacks.
Should rotate in rather than play major snaps, also Engram is OUT but should play next week.

 
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Trade for Teddy Bridgewater, cut Eli. 
I don’t think the Giants have the resources (draft picks) or cap room to trade for Bridgewater right now

They don’t have a 3rd round pick next year because they used it in the supplemental draft

I think Eli has a 22 million cap hit next year, not sure if that changes if Eli decides to retire before the Giants cut him.

I guess they will look at the top QB’s in the draft this year. And look to free agency for RG & RT

 
I saw a clip of Schumur on the sidelines saying "Throw the ball" after multiple Eli checkdowns.  Sometimes I feel Eli just doesn't look OBJ's way just to piss him off more for all the junk he talks.

Was hoping for some garbage time but didn't get it.  Every third down the Eagles converted, Giants should have had 3-4 more possessions than they did.

 
King of the Jungle said:
Trade for Teddy Bridgewater, cut Eli. 
I don't think Bridgewater is the answer ... he would likely be an upgrade of Eli at this point but not the future

 
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/10/15/patriots-chiefs-tom-brady-nfl-fmia-week-6-peter-king/?cid=rotoworld

t. Tell me what this list of players is: Aaron Ross, Kenny Phillips, Hakeem Nicks, Jason Pierre-Paul, Prince Amukamara, David Wilson, Justin Pugh, Odell Beckham Jr., Erick Flowers, Eli Apple, Evan Engram. It’s the list of former Giants GM Jerry Reese’s 11 top draft picks in his tenure running the Giants, apropos with New York’s firing of Flowers last week for poor play.

u. So only three of these 11 players drafted to be cornerstones remain with the Giants: Beckham, Apple and Engram. Engram, the promising tight end, has missed the last three weeks with a knee injury. Apple has started 22 games in three seasons, but it’s unlikely he’s a long-term keeper. Beckham is an excellent receiver, and almost as good as an incendiary device. So sort of a rough list for Reese—and an illustration why Dave Gettleman is the GM today.

x. Giants left tackle Nate Solder, the pricey one, looks like he’s not healthy.
In fairness, Ross looked like he'd be pretty good before injuries. Phillips was a hard hitter but never took the next step people thought he'd make. Nicks got hurt, Wilson ditto. Flowers playing hurt his rookie season I feel contributed to his suckitude now. But the point is made, Reese drafted turribly. IT will take another year or two of drafting to restock the Giants' depth. Solder not looking healthy is a new one, did anyone see anything about him being hurt?

 
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25058936/pat-shurmur-new-york-giants-no-regrets-2-point-attempt-loss

https://www.sny.tv/giants/news/new-york-giants-takeaways-from-week-7s-loss-to-the-falcons/299505178

The math backs up Pat Shurmur's decision to go for two down eight points with less than five minutes to go. Going for it then gives Shurmur an informational advantage. If the Giants convert, then on their next touchdown they know they only need to kick a PAT to take the lead (assuming no other scores). If they fail, which they did, they have an opportunity to go for it again to tie. The long and short of it: converting once is much more likely than failing twice.

...

The Giants ended up failing on the first two-point conversion attempt and converting the second. It proved irrelevant because the Falcons kicked a field goal in between.
At the end of the day, I still feel you guys are arguing the wrong issue. Giants ran the first two-point play, got the guy open and Eli threw a strike to OBJr. ... and he flat dropped it. I find that more troubling than anything else. Also:

Maybe the more costly late-game decisions came with less than a minute left to play. Down 23-12, they had the ball at the Atlanta 1-yard line with 45 seconds remaining. That's when Eli Manning ran a quarterback sneak and was stuffed on first down. Second down was a repeat as valuable time ticked off the clock.

The Giants were finally forced to throw on third down, when Manning connected with Odell Beckham for a touchdown with five seconds remaining. They converted the two-point conversion to make it 23-20, but without much time left.

"We got to get them in, right? We got to sneak it from the 1," Shurmur said. "I don't ... again I just saw a mush pile there, so I don't know why it didn't work. But from the 1-yard line there, we got to get it in."

Shurmur wouldn't have preferred a pass in that situation to protect from getting stuffed and the clock ticking.

"No, that's a defeatist deal," he said. "You should be able to convert on a sneak. We've all seen him do that, and for whatever reasons we didn't get it done."

After years of not being asked to do quarterback sneaks under Tom Coughlin and Ben McAdoo, that has been a staple of the Giants' offense this season. And they have been generally successful.
The weird thing is that somehow Shurmur called for Eli to sneak it... That's as odd as the playcalls in the 3rd quarter 2nd and goal.

What a strange series of plays early in the third quarter, after Manning -- of all people -- ran seven yards down to the Falcons 1. That's usually where good teams just power it in from there, right? But clearly Giants coach Pat Shurmur is afraid of his offensive line. On third and goal from the 1 he runs a jet sweep to Barkley -- basically a stretch run to the outside. It of course doesn't work. Then on fourth and goal he calls for a rollout pass that ends up being broken up. He moved the play away from his line both times.

 
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Actually thought the Giants looked pretty good last night, outside that o-line. They were getting smoked left and right. That sack where Takk bull rushed Solder to the inside and basically tackled him and Eli was flat out embarrassing. 

 
Actually thought the Giants looked pretty good last night, outside that o-line. They were getting smoked left and right. That sack where Takk bull rushed Solder to the inside and basically tackled him and Eli was flat out embarrassing. 
That's the biggest issue plaguing the Giants now; the rush is coming up the middle where before it was mainly on the outside. Once Halapio went out for the year they tried Greco at C and he was getting killed. They tried Spencer Pulley, a highly rated OL from the Eagles and Chargers but that didn't seem to work because Greco at guard was still getting beat and Pulley looked bad. Solder has been nowhere near his play from last season.

 
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two point decision cost them the game....

with a seven point deficit, I don't know that Atlanta has the stones to kick a 56 yarder...

 
two point decision cost them the game....

with a seven point deficit, I don't know that Atlanta has the stones to kick a 56 yarder...
? Tavecchio had that kick from 60, he's always have a big leg from the Raiders. And Quinn already stated he felt comfortable from that distance. I'd argue getting stuffed 2nd and goal on the 1 was a bigger tipping point.

 
? Tavecchio had that kick from 60, he's always have a big leg from the Raiders. And Quinn already stated he felt comfortable from that distance. I'd argue getting stuffed 2nd and goal on the 1 was a bigger tipping point.
they wasted too much time at the goal line....

I think there is a big difference between an 8 or a 7 point deficit in making the call to attempt that FG and risk giving the Giants the ball at midfield...GT has a strong leg, but he also hasn't attempted an NFL kick this year....big risk...having the cushion of the Giants needed a TD AND a conversion, I am sure, changes the math on what the right decision is there ...

 
they wasted too much time at the goal line....

I think there is a big difference between an 8 or a 7 point deficit in making the call to attempt that FG and risk giving the Giants the ball at midfield...GT has a strong leg, but he also hasn't attempted an NFL kick this year....big risk...having the cushion of the Giants needed a TD AND a conversion, I am sure, changes the math on what the right decision is there ...
Dan Quinn is an aggressive coach and Atlanta typically goes for aggression. If you want math, math says end the game right there as opposed to having a D that was having ... moderate  issues stopping the Giants.

 
Dan Quinn is an aggressive coach and Atlanta typically goes for aggression. If you want math, math says end the game right there as opposed to having a D that was having ... moderate  issues stopping the Giants.
you very ell may be right.....

the call/ penalty on Apple when they had Atlanta inside the 10 was a killer too

 
What in the world?

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1054775193124683777

Saints acquired CB Eli Apple from the Giants.

The Saints were reportedly in the market for Cardinals CB Patrick Peterson, but it does not seem like Arizona is open to moving their star corner. Apple had a rocky run in New York and is not near Peterson's level, but he has played pretty well this season. This is a good get for New Orleans at a great price. Following this trade, the Saints are now without their first-, third-, and fourth-round picks in the 2019 draft.
Sudden much?

 
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Wow. That's not much of a return. Is he going to be a free agent or something, or is his rookie deal over after the year? Sounds like the GM is jettisoning Reese's reach.  
Apple is maddeningly inconsistent. Plays well one week, terrible the next. If Saints can keep the bad weeks to a minimum it works for them.

Is his mommy going with him?
You mean the one with brain cancer? Classy.

EDIT: I should state she had a brain tumor in Novermber 2017 removed, and had to be in recovery for months... she does not have cancer now.

 
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Apple is maddeningly inconsistent. Plays well one week, terrible the next. If Saints can keep the bad weeks to a minimum it works for them.

You mean the one with brain cancer? Classy.
My brother is a huge Giants fan. He seems to think he's okay, but I was there when they made the pick and he was stunned by it. He didn't care much for Reese, though.  

If the bolded is true, and the poster knew it, ooooof, 

 
Apple is maddeningly inconsistent. Plays well one week, terrible the next. If Saints can keep the bad weeks to a minimum it works for them.

You mean the one with brain cancer? Classy.
Hadnt followed the story. Just remember the video of her dropping him off at his first practice.

 
Apple is the No. 55-ranked cornerback in the NFL by Pro Football Focus, which is good enough for tops on the Giants.

By trading Apple, the Giants saved about $1 million in salary cap space in 2018 and $2.5 million in 2019. The Giants would have had to decide by next May whether to pick up the fifth-year option on Apple for the 2020 season.
Hmmm... still stunning because they don't have depth right now. I mean I know they're making room for CB Sam Beal next season, but still.

 
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Joe Bryant said:
Explain what you mean here. Use your words here. 
Exactly what I said above. Remembered the talking heads laughing at him when his mom dropped him off at his first practice. Had no idea she was diagnosed with cancer later on, I don’t follow the Giants. I’ve never been a troll on these boards. Never had any kind of suspension. Why don’t you cancel my membership, spend too much time here anyways. Save the tough guy routine.

 
Exactly what I said above. Remembered the talking heads laughing at him when his mom dropped him off at his first practice. Had no idea she was diagnosed with cancer later on, I don’t follow the Giants. I’ve never been a troll on these boards. Never had any kind of suspension. Why don’t you cancel my membership, spend too much time here anyways. Save the tough guy routine.
Thanks. Send an email to help@footballguys.com and they'll take care of it. Sorry it didn't work out. 

 
Joe - Why so quick to alienate your paying customers? Those DFS partnerships must really be paying well! The poster said nothing wrong yet here you are playing tough cop. It’s a bad look dude. Just being honest. 
Not at all. I got reports we were allowing people to mock a mother with cancer. We take those seriously. I asked quickly for him to explain what he meant exactly. I have no idea who here pays or not. And that makes zero difference in what we allow people to post. He asked to cancel and I said ok. 

 
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I think that cooler heads can prevail here. I'm also not sure why people reported without waiting for a chance for him to explain himself. fruity, no need to leave, man. You explained yourself, and adequately in the end. Don't let your fun get ruined by this.  

My two cents since I sort of made a comment about what he said, though I didn't report. At all. 

 
I think that cooler heads can prevail here. I'm also not sure why people reported without waiting for a chance for him to explain himself. fruity, no need to leave, man. You explained yourself, and adequately in the end. Don't let your fun get ruined by this.  

My two cents since I sort of made a comment about what he said, though I didn't report. At all. 
No worries. All good. 

 
I think that cooler heads can prevail here. I'm also not sure why people reported without waiting for a chance for him to explain himself. fruity, no need to leave, man. You explained yourself, and adequately in the end. Don't let your fun get ruined by this.  

My two cents since I sort of made a comment about what he said, though I didn't report. At all. 
I thought everyone knew about Apple and his mom deal, but maybe that's just in the Giants bubble I'm in. ?‍♂️

As far as the trade, I'll take a 4th. Rumors he was going to get cut outright in the offseason. Just another Reese dud for the list.

 
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I thought everyone knew about Apple and his mom deal, but maybe that's just in the Giants bubble I'm in. ?‍♂️

As far as the trade, I'll take a 4th. Rumors he was going to get cut outright in the offseason. Just another Reese dud for the list.
Ah, I see. I've seen him post for years and that would be surprising for him to do that. 

As far as the 4th and 7th, that's what I was trying to suss out. Contract status, whether he was going to get cut or not, was Gettleman wanting to bring in his guys, etc.  

 
Lions acquired NT Damon Harrison from the Giants in exchange for a fifth-round pick.

The Lions' defense has been bulldozed for a league-high 5.3 YPC this season and were in the market for any help up the middle. Regarded as one of the league's best run-stoppers, "Snacks" should assist in the trenches immediately. Harrison has notably garnered Pro Football Focus' No. 4 grade among 169 qualifiers on the interior in run defense this season. He figures to play over Sylvester Williams in the old Alan Branch role in coach Matt Patricia's defense. Harrison is already the second domino to fall for the re-building Giants, following in the footsteps of recently-shipped CB Eli Apple.
Giants expected to get major cap relief, which is why it's only a 5th. My reaction

EDIT: Full breakdown here

According to Vacchiano, the move will clear roughly $4.5 million off the salary cap.

Vacchiano notes that while the return for Harrison seems light, it's actually about right given his age (29) and amount of money remaining on his contract. The 24-year-old Apple netted the Giants a fourth-round pick in 2019 and seventh-round pick in 2020. 

Harrison is in the third year of a five-year, $46.25 million deal he signed before the 2016 season.

He is earning $7.75 million this season, and will make $6.75 million in 2019 ($8.6 million cap hit) and $9 million in 2020 ($10.85 million cap hit) before being eligible for unrestricted free agency.
Giants are trying to load up on mid-round picks to fix depth issues or set themselves to move up in the draft. #SuckfortheDuck

 
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Draft picks and cap space. Keep 'em coming,I'll brush off this season. Sometimes it's interesting to watch a rebuild. :popcorn:

 
Giants signed CB Tony Lippett.

A fifth-round pick in 2015, Lippett had a promising start to his career and started 13 games in 2016, but he missed all of last season with an Achilles' tear. He struggled to recover from the injury this offseason and was waived by the Dolphins at final cuts. He is apparently healthy now, however, and the Giants need help at corner after trading Eli Apple.
6'3 and 192, but mediocre athletically. Seems to have talent thought, Giants trying to work on their depth issue.

 
I thought everyone knew about Apple and his mom deal, but maybe that's just in the Giants bubble I'm in. ?‍♂️

As far as the trade, I'll take a 4th. Rumors he was going to get cut outright in the offseason. Just another Reese dud for the list.
Same here I can't believe everyone is so caught off guard by this comment ... Google Annie Apple or Eli Apple's mom and there are pages of incidents and quotes unrelated to her illness.

 
Draft picks and cap space. Keep 'em coming,I'll brush off this season. Sometimes it's interesting to watch a rebuild. :popcorn:
With all of the rebuilding going on and still more dumping possibly to come (Vernon and Jenkins maybe?) Giants are going to suck next year as well. 

So ... In my opinion they should not Draft a QB this coming Draft unless there is clearly a Franchise QB available ... I am not so sure that there is.

I would rather see them draft the best 2 offensive lineman they can land in the 2019 draft and land Tua Tagovailoa in the 2020 draft  

 
The Frankman said:
6'3 and 192, but mediocre athletically. Seems to have talent thought, Giants trying to work on their depth issue.
Seems like a good pickup if he can make it all the way back 

From his draft profile

"DRAFT ANALYSIS:

Lippett is an intriguing football player who started at both corner and wide receiver for Michigan State last season. He projects better at receiver where he uses his length and ball skills to make plays downfield. Don't count him out as a depth defensive back, either. --Mark Dulgerian"

"Lippett's production skyrocketed thanks to hard work, confidence and competitive fire. His willingness to accept the challenge at cornerback and play both ways is an example of why Lippett should succeed as a starter in the league."

 
monk said:
With all of the rebuilding going on and still more dumping possibly to come (Vernon and Jenkins maybe?) Giants are going to suck next year as well. 

So ... In my opinion they should not Draft a QB this coming Draft unless there is clearly a Franchise QB available ... I am not so sure that there is.

I would rather see them draft the best 2 offensive lineman they can land in the 2019 draft and land Tua Tagovailoa in the 2020 draft  
I agree with this line of thinking. The Houston Texans biggest mistake in their franchise history was drafting David Carr with no offensive line in front of him. He may not have been a great Qb, but he would have been better if he hadn't gotten shell shocked his first 4 seasons. Give your franchise QB a chance to succeed by putting good protection in front of him while he is learning. The Texans wasted the first 4 years of their existence, and basically started over when they hired Gary Kubiak.

 
This. If the Giants want a quick turnaround, the best options out there are Teddy Bridgewater and Colin Kaepernick. Obviously the latter is a longshot, but Teddy is a FA this offseason.
If you would like to further disgrace the organization then Colin Krapernick is the answer and on the bright side surely rock bottom!

I could easily name 20 better options staring with the  3 that are already on the Giants 

 
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So does Shurmur keep his job for next season? He seems like he is in over his head.
Unsure. He's made some puzzling play calls recently. But this roster is mostly a dumpster fire at this point. Some of that is on Gettleman, but the stink of Reese is hard to get past. It is tough to do anything on offense with that OLine. The breakdowns are way too frequent. Its tough to see what the offense is capable of when Eli gets hit before he can complete his drop back. Those thinking Kyle will be able to do anything but get sacked are fooling themselves. There is plenty of blame to go around, and Shurmur should get his share.

 

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