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***Official*** 25th Amendment Thread


Sinn Fein

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Lets just put this here as a placeholder.

 

 

Amendment 25 - Presidential Disability and Succession

1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

 

 

 

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Unfortunately IMO Trump was unstable before all this. And the pressures of the presidency will just accelerate whatever emotional or mental issue he has.

- But I think the very best procedure to get him out is to push for his tax returns in court or Congress through some Constitutional basis. Get a judge to order those and then either offer to let him resign or get them and start impeachment based on the contents which almost certainly have some major revelation.

Proving mental deficiency is really, really, really tough.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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I know Trump is a nut and is doing many sweeping things without Convressinal approval or debate but what basis does the 25th Coke in to play for now? Does anyone think Congress is going to step up and do what's best for the country? The Republicans are getting what they want and will be damned if anything prevents that. Who here thinks the House has any kind of backbone right now?

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The GOP likes where things are right now - but they also know Trump is bat#### crazy.  The longer he remains in power, the more it will impact the GOP in future elections.  Eventually even his base will see that is a complete nut job.

So, you get Pence in as President to smooth things over, and let Pence run in 2020 as an incumbent.

 

Mental health, or physical health - one of the two will probably prevent Trump from seeing out his term.

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18 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

Unfortunately IMO Trump was unstable before all this. And the pressures of the presidency will just accelerate whatever emotional or mental issue he has.

- But I think the very best procedure to get him out is to push for his tax returns in court or Congress through some Constitutional basis. Get a judge to order those and then either offer to let him resign or get them and start impeachment based on the contents which almost certainly have some major revelation.

Proving mental deficiency is really, really, really tough.

what do you imagine is in his tax returns that he would resign/be impeached over?

Edited by Peyton Marino
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I am definately the type of American politics nerd that has verbally opined that we need long form debate and discussion in this country about the Constitution and the rights and powers in the Amendments thereto. It's like the postseason to me.

This was not the amendment I ever thought would necessarily take the lead. Like a 7-9 wildcard team winning round 1.

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On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:29 PM, Sinn Fein said:

It only takes a simple majority of Cabinet officials.  How many have sworn loyalty pledges to Trump?

and the VP and a 2/3 majority of the House and Senate.

If congress fails to remove the president, the it seems to me the President would have to dump the simple majority of his cabinet immediately.  This is where things get really interesting.

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you know, I'm not certain that Trumps amorality and abdication of all things American qualifies as "...unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office".  It seems he can discharge the powers duties of his office just fine - it's just that normal people don't care for the powers or duties he discharges.

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12 hours ago, moleculo said:

you know, I'm not certain that Trumps amorality and abdication of all things American qualifies as "...unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office".  It seems he can discharge the powers duties of his office just fine - it's just that normal people don't care for the powers or duties he discharges.

I agree. The 25th Amendment seems designed to deal with mental incompetence, not ordinary stupidity. If Trump were a poster in this forum, in terms of intellectual capacity, he'd probably be in the 20th percentile or so. Not ideal for a President, but well within the normal range of American adults.

As for his dishonesty and corruption, that's for impeachment, not removal under the 25th Amendment.

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You obviously did not watch his Montana Rally tonight.

This is just another one of your fanatical fantasies.

Totally oblivious to reality.

By the way Montana will be a Senate pickup for the Republicans.

Tester is toast. Called it here.

What a freaking great rally, he actually spoke to the 25th Amendment. 

You may want to let this thread die a natural death.

Edited by Qanon
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23 minutes ago, Maurile Tremblay said:
12 hours ago, moleculo said:

you know, I'm not certain that Trumps amorality and abdication of all things American qualifies as "...unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office".  It seems he can discharge the powers duties of his office just fine - it's just that normal people don't care for the powers or duties he discharges.

I agree. The 25th Amendment seems designed to deal with mental incompetence, not ordinary stupidity.

I'd say that the 25th Amendment is designed to deal with incapacitation, not incompetence.

An incompetent man could discharge the duties of the office (he just couldn't do it very competently).

An incapacitated man could not.

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11 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

I don't think that's necessarily enough to invoke the 25th. There are people who suffer from psychosis who are able to function in society.

I’d say that if you’re mentally unfit to make a legally binding contract, you're also unfit to be President, and the 25th Amendment may appropriately be invoked.

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White House officials flagged Trump's behavior to psychiatrist last year

White House officials reached out to a noted Yale University psychiatrist last fall out of concern over President Trump’s increasingly erratic behavior.

Dr. Bandy Lee, who edited the best-selling book "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 27 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess a President,” told the Daily News Thursday the staffers contacted her because the President was “scaring” them.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I agree. The 25th Amendment seems designed to deal with mental incompetence, not ordinary stupidity. If Trump were a poster in this forum, in terms of intellectual capacity, he'd probably be in the 20th percentile or so. Not ideal for a President, but well within the normal range of American adults.

As for his dishonesty and corruption, that's for impeachment, not removal under the 25th Amendment.

I think you're probably correct about that.  Trump occupies a space where he may not be "mentally incompetent" in the legal sense, but he's incompetent in the normal English sense of the word.  I'm perfectly capable of making rational decisions and entering into contracts, but you would not want me trying to land a commercial aircraft.  Trump is just as dangerous, and there needs to be a way to get him out of the cockpit.  

I feel like we're sitting around worrying about the nuances of seldom-invoked constitutional provisions and the ethics of anonymous op-eds when there's a guy in the White House whose potential for failure literally includes nuclear war.

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7 hours ago, Maurile Tremblay said:

I agree. The 25th Amendment seems designed to deal with mental incompetence, not ordinary stupidity. If Trump were a poster in this forum, in terms of intellectual capacity, he'd probably be in the 20th percentile or so. Not ideal for a President, but well within the normal range of American adults.

As for his dishonesty and corruption, that's for impeachment, not removal under the 25th Amendment.

Are we allowed to call the President stupid (and variants)?

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23 hours ago, IvanKaramazov said:

This amendment would work just fine if the president were in a coma or something like that.  I think it's way too ambiguous, convoluted, and generally infeasible to be of much help when dealing with somebody like Trump.  Hopefully I'll be proven wrong, but I doubt it.

As for the 25th, I don't think there is any way there will or could ever be a diagnosis justifying it as far as Trump being say 'crazy'.

I do think however that the Founders accounted for this situation with the "misdemeanors" language in the impeachment clause. I think they threw that in knowing that there could be a president who misbehaves so badly that he would be disqualified from office. 

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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you know I will say Elizabeth Warren was spot on yesterday

invoke the 25th with the powers that come with being an elected official of #### and do what you are told by your superior (Trump)

the supposed sneaking around undermining the Govt with illegal and treasonous activities is unacceptable

 

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Qanon said:


You obviously did not watch his Montana Rally tonight.

This is just another one of your fanatical fantasies.

Totally oblivious to reality.

By the way Montana will be a Senate pickup for the Republicans.

Tester is toast. Called it here.

What a freaking great rally, he actually spoke to the 25th Amendment.


Oh, you mean the Montana rally where the people were so bored that they were replaced by paid actors in the middle of it?

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Posted about the 25th in a separate thread before I realized this one existed. To quickly summarize: I agree with others who say it was clearly designed for a president who was incapacitated, not unfit. And it's ultimately irrelevant, since if there were actually 2/3 of both houses of Congress willing to vote that the president should be removed from office they could just as easily impeach him, which only requires a majority in the House.

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14 minutes ago, jm192 said:

What a joke.  This is pure political theatre.  

I tend to agree, but let’s say hypothetically it wasn’t and there was general concern for his fitness due to health, mental capacity, etc. How would that look different?

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