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2022 Minnesota Vikings (3 Viewers)

More than willing to accept that this isn't the typical talent pool and that the point values aren't going to match up to historical values.

With that said, I think the strong GM I still want to believe KAM will be tells Detroit that the 46/66 swap is a no and they can either take the #12 for the #32 & #34 or go eat rocks.

 
FunkyPlutos said:
Those charts are a guideline...This draft was not top heavy - questions about anything after top 2 picks...so I think it is tough to use them to grade it. If they had 10 guys they really liked and had a bunch grouped after that, then getting an extra top 75 pick is good value. I wasn't thrilled but if it allows them to get a guard that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise, then good for them!!

I really would like to get Booth!
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Yes I am pretty sure the JJ chart is very out of date.

I trust Chase Stewarts math however and considering that its independently evaluated based on history of the draft, that doesnt look like it was a good deal.

I heard Kwesis press conference and he was asked directly about this but he blew off answering the question.

I didnt like that because I think it's a legit question. I would have liked to hear some sort of reasoning behind that.

This draft class might be different than the aggregate of history that's true, however all we need to do is compare the Saints and Commanders trade to the Vikings Lions trade.

WAS gives pick 11 for pick 16 pick 98 pick 120.

Per trade value chart pick 11 worth 357 points. Pick 16 + 98 + 120 worth 365 points. Close enough slight advantage to WAS in value since they were giving up the highest pick.

The Vikings gave pick 12 worth 346 points and pick 46 worth 127 points for pick 32 worth 184 points pick 34 worth 175 points and pick 66 worth 76 points. Vikings give 473 points for 435 points. A loss of 38 points.

Both teams were trading up to select WR at similar points of the draft. WAS got a fair deal the Vikings did not.

38 points is the equivalent of pick 97 which is a lot of value to lose. 

 
Vikings are getting the speedy wideouts to their competitors.  Unfortunately they don’t have a corner that can  run with them.  

 
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Armani Rogers, a developmental TE, could be a good fit for the last Vikings pick.  

 
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Our new GM wheels and deals, that's for sure.  I thought we got robbed trading #12 for too little and to a divisional opponent at that.  That high 2 is very valuable to start Day 2.  Getting 2 two's for a high two I applause.  In the end I see 4 quality players in the top 4.  First 2 being DBs I agree with, we could not stop the pass at all imho.  Time will tell on the developmental prospects (5ths and on).  

Go Vikes!!!  Best of luck to our new GM.  You got us an extra player I think (rounds 1 and 2).  I think we are improved, thanks.  

 
Biabreakable said:
. I would have liked to hear some sort of reasoning behind that.
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I posted this already, but the board has updated twice and zapped it two f'ng times so here's a quick summary.

Kwesi came from the Browns, knew their draft board/inside info.

Kwesi and Browns GM Andrew Berry wanted the CB Kwesi took in the 2nd round.  If Kwesi did not move down from #12 he stood no shot to get him because the Browns were set to pick at #44 and the Vikings originally held the 46th pick so they stood no chance to take Andrew Booth Jr. 

He traded down within his division and got the last pick of the 1st round AND the CB he wanted BEFORE Adrew Berry could take him.  THAT explains why he made that 'odd' move down in the 1st and it also explains why the Browns GM made an 'odd' move-down right AFTER Kwesi picked Booth.  

The Browns seemed 'set' at CB so when the rumor came out that he wanted Booth it didn't make sense.  Andrew Berry traded completely OUT of the 2nd round when blue-chip talent was still on the board and then took a CB with his first selection of the draft in the 3rd round and then traded away slot CB Troy Hill for a future pick.  Suddenly everything made sense that they both wanted Booth.

Later in the draft Kwesi made a 'one-side' deal with Andrew Berry to 'smooth things over' because he knew he screwed the Browns.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
I posted this already, but the board has updated twice and zapped it two f'ng times so here's a quick summary.

Kwesi came from the Browns, knew their draft board/inside info.

Kwesi and Browns GM Andrew Berry wanted the CB Kwesi took in the 2nd round.  If Kwesi did not move down from #12 he stood no shot to get him because the Browns were set to pick at #44 and the Vikings originally held the 46th pick so they stood no chance to take Andrew Booth Jr. 
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Seems a lot more complicated and costly than trading from 46 to 43.

 
BigJim® said:
Seems a lot more complicated and costly than trading from 46 to 43.
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If Booth was considered a 1st round talent by both clubs then by trading-down Kwesi got the bonus 1st for the safety.  If he traded-up, he'd lose a mid-round pick instead of gaining a late 1st round pick.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
If Booth was considered a 1st round talent by both clubs then by trading-down Kwesi got the bonus 1st for the safety.  If he traded-up, he'd lose a mid-round pick instead of gaining a late 1st round pick.
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I'd rather a better player at #12 and lose a lower pick to move up for Booth. 

 
One thing that I am excited about is getting Janarious Robinson back. I thought he had some huge potential before being injured in preseason last year. Also, Jaylen Twyman was one of my favorite picks from last year and if he is completely recovered, the move to a 3-4 is perfect for him. Not much draft on the D-Line but getting these two is like a couple extra picks.

 
cap'n grunge said:
I'd rather a better player at #12 and lose a lower pick to move up for Booth. 
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The first two CBs went off the board at picks 3 and 4.  

The next two didn't go until picks 21 and 23.

The next two went 35 and 39 before Booth went off the board at 42.

He was injured during testing so I'm guessing he was/is a bargain for some front offices.

I think Kwesi judged him equal to the 2 CBs taken in the 20s.

Corner was a high priority and he got the safety in the first round so that canceled out taking Hamilton who was easily the highest rated player left at #12.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
I posted this already, but the board has updated twice and zapped it two f'ng times so here's a quick summary.
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What do you mean by the board has updated twice?

This isn't clear to me.

As I said in the post that you quoted WAS got relatively fair value by the Chase Stewart trade value chart, the Vikings did not and this was for very similar trades for pick 11 and pick 12 which are close to the same value in any year regardless of a trade value chart.

The Vikings got much less return for pick 12 in their trade with the Lions than what Washington got from the Saints for pick 11.

I listened to Kewsi more recent response about this earlier today and again he dismisses the value he received in the deal. He talks about being happy with the outcome regardless of the value. Then he says that teams had other offers and he wanted to move down in the draft, if he didn't take the offer then teams would move up with other teams instead, and leave them stuck with making the pick is basically his explaination.

Bracie Smathers said:
Kwesi came from the Browns, knew their draft board/inside info.

Kwesi and Browns GM Andrew Berry wanted the CB Kwesi took in the 2nd round.  If Kwesi did not move down from #12 he stood no shot to get him because the Browns were set to pick at #44 and the Vikings originally held the 46th pick so they stood no chance to take Andrew Booth Jr. 

He traded down within his division and got the last pick of the 1st round AND the CB he wanted BEFORE Adrew Berry could take him.  THAT explains why he made that 'odd' move down in the 1st and it also explains why the Browns GM made an 'odd' move-down right AFTER Kwesi picked Booth.  

The Browns seemed 'set' at CB so when the rumor came out that he wanted Booth it didn't make sense.  Andrew Berry traded completely OUT of the 2nd round when blue-chip talent was still on the board and then took a CB with his first selection of the draft in the 3rd round and then traded away slot CB Troy Hill for a future pick.  Suddenly everything made sense that they both wanted Booth.

Later in the draft Kwesi made a 'one-side' deal with Andrew Berry to 'smooth things over' because he knew he screwed the Browns.
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While this may be the case the Vikings could have invested something much less than pick 12 in order to move up ahead of the Browns to select Booth.

Possible that Booth will be a very good player and that the players the Vikings selected will all be good picks and future starters. Only time will tell on that.  I choose to be optimistic and I do not have an issue with the players they selected where they did.

This is a completely separate issue than the raw value of the picks, where I think they short changed themselves out of desperation to move down.

 
Biabreakable said:
What do you mean by the board has updated twice?

This isn't clear to me.

As I said in the post that you quoted WAS got relatively fair value by the Chase Stewart trade value chart, the Vikings did not and this was for very similar trades for pick 11 and pick 12 which are close to the same value in any year regardless of a trade value chart.

The Vikings got much less return for pick 12 in their trade with the Lions than what Washington got from the Saints for pick 11.

I listened to Kewsi more recent response about this earlier today and again he dismisses the value he received in the deal. He talks about being happy with the outcome regardless of the value. Then he says that teams had other offers and he wanted to move down in the draft, if he didn't take the offer then teams would move up with other teams instead, and leave them stuck with making the pick is basically his explaination.

While this may be the case the Vikings could have invested something much less than pick 12 in order to move up ahead of the Browns to select Booth.

Possible that Booth will be a very good player and that the players the Vikings selected will all be good picks and future starters. Only time will tell on that.  I choose to be optimistic and I do not have an issue with the players they selected where they did.

This is a completely separate issue than the raw value of the picks, where I think they short changed themselves out of desperation to move down.
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:goodposting:

It’s the value. Any GM can lose 15% draft value moving around the draft. It’s just sort of stupefying that a team with months to line up prospective trades would find itself forced to lose value to carry out a plan. There was a ton of trading, and apparently other teams did not have that trouble.

 
Biabreakable said:
What do you mean by the board has updated twice?

This isn't clear to me.
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The boards we post on had a software upgrade and two times when the Footballguys FF board was updating it zapped all newly posted content.

Biabreakable said:
Vikings did not and this was for very similar trades for pick 11 and pick 12
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I understand what you are saying and the point of using the chart to grade trades.

Kwesi and Andrew Berry value the CB position higher than most NFL GMs.

"In this league, cornerback depth is important. You need four good ones, at least. You need depth year-in and year-out," Adofo-Mensah 

Andrew Berry used his first-round pick last year at the CB position.  The Browns had Denzel Ward who he would extend making him the highest paid CB in the league only weeks ago AND with recent 2nd round pick Greedy Williams he used his FIRST selection in this draft on ANOTHER CB.  CB was FAR from the highest need the Browns needed addressing in this draft showing how highly he values CB talent.

As soon as Booth was taken by Kwesi it was reported he was the Browns target.  AB moved down right after Kwesi took Booth.   

If you look at the chart you see numbers.  Kwesi and AB value CBs higher than most and were targeting the same player so it became a game of positioning.  

Could he have stayed at #12, sure.  By far the highest ranked player was S Hamilton but he moved down and got a S AND was positioned to get Booth.

Could he have leveraged MORE out of the #12 pick?  I think he could but from his actions he wanted to make certain he got his S and CB.  He saw and took an opportunity to move down and gain more picks before moving back-up to secure Booth.   

The one player he valued most by his actions was Booth.  He didn't move up for Kine, didn't take the highest rated S sitting in his lap, wasn't out to maximize picks. 

I think how he values the CB position and how he maneuvered to land Booth are the takeaways looking at Kwesi's first draft.  YMMV, cheers.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
I understand what you are saying and the point of using the chart to grade trades.

Kwesi and Andrew Berry value the CB position higher than most NFL GMs.
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You're pretty much talking past everyone here. We get it... Kwesi is a unicorn in his valuation. But if you value differently than everyone else, you take advantage of how everyone else values. For example, if I value something more than everyone else, I don't overpay what I value it. I pay the market price and win. It's not that complicated. The Vikes sacrificed the value of a late 3rd round pick because they did not have a value-exploiting way to carry out their plan. 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
The boards we post on had a software upgrade and two times when the Footballguys FF board was updating it zapped all newly posted content.

I understand what you are saying and the point of using the chart to grade trades.

Kwesi and Andrew Berry value the CB position higher than most NFL GMs.

"In this league, cornerback depth is important. You need four good ones, at least. You need depth year-in and year-out," Adofo-Mensah 

Andrew Berry used his first-round pick last year at the CB position.  The Browns had Denzel Ward who he would extend making him the highest paid CB in the league only weeks ago AND with recent 2nd round pick Greedy Williams he used his FIRST selection in this draft on ANOTHER CB.  CB was FAR from the highest need the Browns needed addressing in this draft showing how highly he values CB talent.

As soon as Booth was taken by Kwesi it was reported he was the Browns target.  AB moved down right after Kwesi took Booth.   

If you look at the chart you see numbers.  Kwesi and AB value CBs higher than most and were targeting the same player so it became a game of positioning.  

Could he have stayed at #12, sure.  By far the highest ranked player was S Hamilton but he moved down and got a S AND was positioned to get Booth.

Could he have leveraged MORE out of the #12 pick?  I think he could but from his actions he wanted to make certain he got his S and CB.  He saw and took an opportunity to move down and gain more picks before moving back-up to secure Booth.   

The one player he valued most by his actions was Booth.  He didn't move up for Kine, didn't take the highest rated S sitting in his lap, wasn't out to maximize picks. 

I think how he values the CB position and how he maneuvered to land Booth are the takeaways looking at Kwesi's first draft.  YMMV, cheers.
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I appreciate your perspective and you may be right in regards to the Browns also targeting Booth.

However if Booth was the priority than why not take him at pick 32?

Clearly Cine was a higher priority as he was the earlier pick.

Not saying this is wrong as Smith is getting old and perhaps they read other teams priorities as such that they needed to select him higher to make sure they got him and the goal was to secure him and Booth. That said though it does show that Cine was the higher priority.

While trade value charts may be in flux as you say with recent updates, that doesnt change the fact that WAS got much better value on their deal than the Vikings did. Their deal was more in line with the older charts than the Vikings deal was.

To me that is bad business, even if their goal was to secure these 2 players all along. I think they could have held out for a better deal than they took from the Lions and still accomplished that goal.

While people do not like how Spilman traded down so often I can only recall one instance of him losing raw value in trades and it wasnt by as great a margin as the Vikings lost on their deal with the Lions.

 
Donnybrook said:
In the spirit of the Purple Daily - "write that down" segment, I will make three early draft predictions:

1.  Vikings will trade down in the first.  

2. Vikings will trade Kellen Mond for the equivalent of 5th round pick (ie draft trade points) in the 2022 draft. (The justification is  that they only want to carry 2 QBs during the season).

3. Vikings will not draft a QB in the first 6 rounds in the draft.  They might draft one in the 7th to be a camp arm and can be moved to the practice squad with ease.
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I am giving myself 2 out of 3 on my predictions.  I still think the signing of Mannion prior to draft speaks loudly on what they were going to do.  I expect they will praise Mond coming up to roster cut down day but they will be looking for a way to get an extra roster spot.  

 
BigJim® said:
if you value differently than everyone else,
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Not EVERYONE else.  Kwesi came from Cleveland, tutored under Andrew Berry, knew the Cleveland scouting reports and how AB would stack his board.  Both GMs know the analytics of DBs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I was told by an NFL executive that defensive back has the highest injury rate of any position in the NFL.

“If you are banged-up or don’t have depth (at cornerback)...you are really holding your breath from play to play,” said GM Andrew Berry during the draft.

----------------------------------------------------

Kwesi had inside information on the Browns scouting reports/draft board that he could use to his advantage.

The Browns had no 1st round pick so any action Kwesi took regarding positioning himself ahead of Browns GM Andew Berry would be used in the 2nd round. 

In the first he moved-down.  In the 2nd he moved-up ahead of Andrew Berry where he took Booth.  Reports came out he was the Browns target, AB moved down.  

Biabreakable said:
However if Booth was the priority than why not take him at pick 32?

Clearly Cine was a higher priority as he was the earlier pick.
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Booth clearly was NOT ranked higher than Cine, never said that or hinted at that.  Kwesi had a deal in place with Detroit Lions GM Brad Holmes BEFORE the draft with his first round pick.

Brad Holmes showed his aggressive nature and planning in trading up to land Jameson Williams

When the Detroit Lions bundled three draft picks in a trade package and sent them to the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday night, it wasn’t some spontaneous action. Lions GM Brad Holmes and his Minnesota counterpart, Kwesi Adofo-Mensah, had agreed to the basic framework of the trade well before the first round of the 2022 NFL draft.
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What Kwesi did in the first had no connection with the Booth pick other than gaining extra picks that he used to move in front of Andrew Berry and the Browns to land Booth in the 2nd round.

 
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Thanks for the information Bracie 

It doesnt really make me feel better about the value of the trade, but this information does show that KAM had plenty of time to think it over.

It also backs up his statement about being aware of the Lions exploring other options.

As far as trade value goes there are other evaluations based on the performance of players by draft pick that are different than the other trade value charts.

While I still dont like the value of the deal this does make the decision and his comments make more sense.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Not EVERYONE else.  Kwesi came from Cleveland, tutored under Andrew Berry, knew the Cleveland scouting reports and how AB would stack his board.  Both GMs know the analytics of DBs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 I was told by an NFL executive that defensive back has the highest injury rate of any position in the NFL.

“If you are banged-up or don’t have depth (at cornerback)...you are really holding your breath from play to play,” said GM Andrew Berry during the draft.

----------------------------------------------------

Kwesi had inside information on the Browns scouting reports/draft board that he could use to his advantage.

The Browns had no 1st round pick so any action Kwesi took regarding positioning himself ahead of Browns GM Andew Berry would be used in the 2nd round. 

In the first he moved-down.  In the 2nd he moved-up ahead of Andrew Berry where he took Booth.  Reports came out he was the Browns target, AB moved down.  

Booth clearly was NOT ranked higher than Cine, never said that or hinted at that.  Kwesi had a deal in place with Detroit Lions GM Brad Holmes BEFORE the draft with his first round pick.

Brad Holmes showed his aggressive nature and planning in trading up to land Jameson Williams

What Kwesi did in the first had no connection with the Booth pick other than gaining extra picks that he used to move in front of Andrew Berry and the Browns to land Booth in the 2nd round.
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What you describe reads like a draft plan tunnel-visioned on besting AB over a 2nd round player, costs aside. I sure hope Booth proves to be worth a 2nd/3rd - that's the tab for him - as far as most NFL teams value draft picks.. 

 
Biabreakable said:
While I still dont like the value of the deal this does make the decision and his comments make more sense.
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Does it make the decision make more sense?  He still left value on the table and in general it was a poor trade at face value.  Just because he had a plan and stuck to it doesn't mean the decision itself make sense.   I can see having the basics of the trade agreed to by some degree going into the draft but there were other trade backs that were much better in terms of value and that should have been factored in for sure.  Just take out the 2nd round pick he gave back and it would have been fine.  

 
Biabreakable said:
Thanks for the information Bracie 

It doesnt really make me feel better about the value of the trade, but this information does show that KAM had plenty of time to think it over.

It also backs up his statement about being aware of the Lions exploring other options.

As far as trade value goes there are other evaluations based on the performance of players by draft pick that are different than the other trade value charts.

While I still dont like the value of the deal this does make the decision and his comments make more sense.
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One other thing, the timing of the 1st round trade.

This trade was made before Minnesota was on the clock so Kwesi wasn't offered it so you can't complain about a deal he had no shot to complete.

  • The Washington Commanders traded their first-round pick (No. 11) to the New Orleans Saints for the Saints' first first-round pick (No. 16), a third-rounder (No. 98) and a fourth-rounder (No. 120).
Kwesi made his deal with Detroit.

  • The Detroit Lions made an aggressive move up the board, trading their second first-round pick (No. 32), a second-round pick (No. 34) and a third-round pick (No. 66) to the Minnesota Vikings for the No. 12 pick and a second-round pick (No. 46). 
As noted, he had the deal in place with Brad Holmes before the draft.  A big move down the boards that directly enabled him to make two other trades. 

Then Philly moved up a few picks AFTER he made his trade.

  • The Texans traded their second first-round pick (No. 13) to the Philadelphia Eagles for the Eagles' first first-round pick (No. 15) along with a fourth-round pick (No. 124) and two fifth-rounders (Nos. 162 and 166).
Houston got very little in terms of draft picks and if Philly moved up another spot Kwesi would have had to get MORE than a 4th and two 5th round picks. 

Gally said:
He still left value on the table and in general it was a poor trade at face value. 
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No one knows if anyone was making offers.  Philly knew they had to get in front of Baltimore who wanted DT Jordan Davis but they knew how long they had to wait and, quite frankly, were not willing to offer much to move-up.

The next swap of picks in the first round didn't happen until pick 21 when Belichick moved down because he valued that 'Strange' guard.

  • The Kansas City Chiefs moved up eight slots, trading their first first-round pick (No. 29) along with a third-round pick (No. 94) and a fourth-round pick (No. 121) to the New England Patriots for the No. 21 pick. 
Add, KC moved-up for a CB.

  • The Chiefs selected Washington cornerback Trent McDuffie with the No. 21 pick...
 
Gally said:
Does it make the decision make more sense?  He still left value on the table and in general it was a poor trade at face value.  Just because he had a plan and stuck to it doesn't mean the decision itself make sense.   I can see having the basics of the trade agreed to by some degree going into the draft but there were other trade backs that were much better in terms of value and that should have been factored in for sure.  Just take out the 2nd round pick he gave back and it would have been fine.  
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I dont mean it makes sense as far as getting fair market value for the pick.

Just that it makes sense as far as KAM comments about the decision.

I think Detriots offer was weak but he wanted to do it anyways. 

 
FunkyPlutos said:
One thing that I am excited about is getting Janarious Robinson back. I thought he had some huge potential before being injured in preseason last year. Also, Jaylen Twyman was one of my favorite picks from last year and if he is completely recovered, the move to a 3-4 is perfect for him. Not much draft on the D-Line but getting these two is like a couple extra picks.
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:goodposting:

I think I read a favorable update on Twyman but admit my draft hopes ignored guys who may already be on the roster but lost due to injury. Hopefully this additional DE/DT combo from 2021 class can help. 

 
Gally said:
Who was a potential elite talent you take there?  Hamilton would have been the only thought for me and I like Cine almost as much
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Leaked Cowboys draft board.

Jerry Jones revealed top of Cowboys’ draft board, with Kayvon Thibodeaux at No. 1

Stephen Jones said in a pre-draft news conference that the Cowboys had 14-16 prospects with first-round grades.

From the photo, those 14 are:

1. Kayvon Thibodeaux, DE, Oregon: drafted fifth overall by the Giants.

2. Evan Neal, OT, Alabama: drafted seventh overall by the Giants.

3. Aidan Hutchinson, DE, Michigan: drafted second overall by the Lions.

4. Garrett Wilson, WR, Ohio State: drafted 10th overall by the Jets.

5. Ahmad Gardner, CB, Cincinnati: drafted fourth overall by the Jets.

6. Derek Stingley, CB, LSU: drafted third overall by the Texans.

7. Travon Walker, DE, Georgia: drafted first overall by the Jaguars.

8. Kyle Hamilton, S, Notre Dame: drafted 14th overall by the Ravens.

9. Ikem Ekwonu, OT, North Carolina State: drafted sixth overall by the Panthers.

10. Drake London, WR, USC: drafted eighth overall by the Falcons.

11. Jordan Davis, DT, Georgia: drafted 13th overall by the Eagles.

12. Charles Cross, OT, Mississippi State: drafted ninth overall by the Seahawks.

13. Lewis Cine, S, Georgia: drafted 32nd overall by the Vikings.

 
KAM did say they had Cine somewhere in the teens on their draft board and that does link up with Dallas having a 1st round grade on him.

Thanks for the info Bracie.

 
I have been hearing some good things about Ed Ingram. In particular his pass blocking ability which is greatly needed to help Kirk Cousins be at his best. Hopefully this is indeed the case.

The question still remains if they will be able to replace Garrett Bradbury or not, which I think is needed for them to be good enough in the middle in pass protection. Its possible one of the guards could take over there. I sure hope the plan isn't to start Bradbury all season.

Another suggestion I have heard is for the Vikings to play Cousins out of the shotgun more. I think this could help mitigate pressure up the middle somewhat, however Cousins has been very effective using play action and so you still want to do that as well.

Im still not sure they have done enough to shore up the offensive line, but hopefully there is some improvement, although I am guessing not as much improvement as we would like.

 
Biabreakable said:
I have been hearing some good things about Ed Ingram. In particular his pass blocking ability which is greatly needed to help Kirk Cousins be at his best. Hopefully this is indeed the case.

The question still remains if they will be able to replace Garrett Bradbury or not, which I think is needed for them to be good enough in the middle in pass protection. Its possible one of the guards could take over there. I sure hope the plan isn't to start Bradbury all year.
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I’d read mostly good things about E Ingram & leaves me somewhat hopeful. Wyatt Davis never comes up and I’m baffled about him. He was 2020 Big10 offensive lineman of the year (voted by coaches) and unanimous All American, but he did not play and was reportedly only picked due to Spielman mutiny? Is he just written off right now?

I too dread 2022 OL with Bradbury. I guess we just have to hope fresh coaching and improved guards and impending FA motivations help him, OR transitioning another guy. Mason Cole probably earned his spot last season but he somehow found the field again.

 
Biabreakable said:
Kwesi Like a Fox: Assessing Adofo-Mensah’s Draft Pick Trades

Very nice article by Wludford breaking down the ins and outs of trade value charts and how they applied to the Vikings draft.
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It's an amazing article.

Go to the link above to see 'multiple' analytic value charts of the trades as many who quoted 'older' trade value charts may be surprised that what 'appeared' as poor values on old charts we good values on updated analytic charts.

New information that explains a lot is the Packers deal, how they were desperate and paid a premium and how Kwesi paid a premium to move-up for Booth but still came away with 'extra' picks so he could maneuver later  in the draft.  

This explains everything.  Excellent article.

------------------------------------

...Which is better: Kyle Hamilton, or Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth Jr.? That may have been part of the thinking in trading down as well.

..., not trading the #12 pick really limits trades later in the draft for the Vikings, as their re the Packers trade, it was reported that the Packers wanted to trade for the Vikings’ #32 pick at the end of Day One, but Adofo-Mensah turned them down. It may have been that the following day, the Packers approached him again, having sweetened the deal, in order to secure the #34 pick. Clearly they knew they were paying a hefty premium, but they were desperate enough remaining draft capital wouldn’t allow for significant moves

...But when it came to trading up for Andrew Booth Jr., it may have been Adofo-Mensah who was feeling the pressure to land a top cornerback, and Booth may well have been his last opportunity to do so. And so when the Colts demanded a premium, he made the trade anyway. He probably felt better about it having just fleeced the Packers, so sacrificing a bit of the premium the Packers paid him to secure Booth’s services may have been well worth it to him.  It may also have been that Booth was ranked high enough on their board that even with the trade premium, they still felt it was a bargain to draft Booth for that amount of draft capital. Booth was #22 on the consensus big board, so getting him at #42, even with the trade premium, could be seen as a bargain.

 
BigJim® said:
I’d read mostly good things about E Ingram & leaves me somewhat hopeful. Wyatt Davis never comes up and I’m baffled about him. He was 2020 Big10 offensive lineman of the year (voted by coaches) and unanimous All American, but he did not play and was reportedly only picked due to Spielman mutiny? Is he just written off right now?

I too dread 2022 OL with Bradbury. I guess we just have to hope fresh coaching and improved guards and impending FA motivations help him, OR transitioning another guy. Mason Cole probably earned his spot last season but he somehow found the field again.
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Yeah this all remains to be seen. I really would like to see more improvement but not optimistic they have done enough yet.

I think we have seen enough of Bradbury where I dont want to see more of that, but possible a change of scheme supporting cast helps I guess.

I hope there is competition for him at least. He hasn't earned the starting job in my view.

 
Wyatt Davis did some practicing at Center last season as well...a possibility?? Tretter still there...not sure if they can afford him but...

 
Bracie Smathers said:
It's an amazing article.

Go to the link above to see 'multiple' analytic value charts of the trades as many who quoted 'older' trade value charts may be surprised that what 'appeared' as poor values on old charts we good values on updated analytic charts.

New information that explains a lot is the Packers deal, how they were desperate and paid a premium and how Kwesi paid a premium to move-up for Booth but still came away with 'extra' picks so he could maneuver later  in the draft.  

This explains everything.  Excellent article.

------------------------------------

...Which is better: Kyle Hamilton, or Lewis Cine and Andrew Booth Jr.? That may have been part of the thinking in trading down as well.

..., not trading the #12 pick really limits trades later in the draft for the Vikings, as their re the Packers trade, it was reported that the Packers wanted to trade for the Vikings’ #32 pick at the end of Day One, but Adofo-Mensah turned them down. It may have been that the following day, the Packers approached him again, having sweetened the deal, in order to secure the #34 pick. Clearly they knew they were paying a hefty premium, but they were desperate enough remaining draft capital wouldn’t allow for significant moves

...But when it came to trading up for Andrew Booth Jr., it may have been Adofo-Mensah who was feeling the pressure to land a top cornerback, and Booth may well have been his last opportunity to do so. And so when the Colts demanded a premium, he made the trade anyway. He probably felt better about it having just fleeced the Packers, so sacrificing a bit of the premium the Packers paid him to secure Booth’s services may have been well worth it to him.  It may also have been that Booth was ranked high enough on their board that even with the trade premium, they still felt it was a bargain to draft Booth for that amount of draft capital. Booth was #22 on the consensus big board, so getting him at #42, even with the trade premium, could be seen as a bargain.
Click to expand...
I agree he did a really nice job of laying that all out.

While pick 34 isnt technically a 1st round pick it's still close to it and a high enough pick for him to leverage other deals in the draft.

I still think pick 12 was worth more than he got for it, but with these further details I am more confident that he did the best he could to maximize value.

 
Biabreakable said:
I still think pick 12 was worth more than he got for it, but with these further details I am more confident that he did the best he could to maximize value.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

I mean, it is what is is but all the eloquently written words in the world are not going to show that a quarter is worth a dime and two nickels. 

 
Paul Allen talking about the Vikings have Kyle Hinton 7th round pick last year is being trained as a center.

Chris Reed is another possibility.

If Bradbury can win the job anyways then good for him, just dont give it to him though, make him earn it and have other players ready if he cant.

 
Maybe now that are training Hinton at center, the You tubers will shut up about signing TC Tretter.  There has to be a reason that he remains unsigned. 
 

I believe the smart move is keep the remaining cap money for in season moves.   They could also roll that used cap money over into next season. 

 
Biabreakable said:
I still think pick 12 was worth more than he got for it
Click to expand...
Computer Cowboy@benbbaldwin

Apologies from the cryptic tweet, my bad.

If you look at old draft charts like the JJ one, it looks like the Lions won.

But if you look at any newer chart that actually estimates talent dropoffs relative to cost, the Vikings won (from@LeeSharpeNFL)

LINK to chart

 
Biabreakable said:
I still think pick 12 was worth more than he got for it, but with these further details I am more confident that he did the best he could to maximize value.
Click to expand...


I agree, and I think in normal years he gets more for that pick.

But this draft was one of those deep drafts where there were lots of solid prospects in the late 1st through 4th range, but not as much elite talent in that top half of the 1st. So less leverage in this case. I think he found the best deal he could get and rolled with it because he knew if he didn't he'd be forced to pick at 12 and then have very little capital to work with the remaining draft.

I mean just look at the guy picked 1st overall. Does he look like a dude that would be picked that high in other years? He may end up a fine player but I don't think right now he compares to a Mario Williams, Myles Garrett, Bosa type-of-prospect.

And I'm not just picking on him. Quite a few of the guys at the top have some potential warts, and while a few of them might end up pretty good, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "superstar" potential. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those guys have forgettable careers.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Computer Cowboy@benbbaldwin

Apologies from the cryptic tweet, my bad.

If you look at old draft charts like the JJ one, it looks like the Lions won.

But if you look at any newer chart that actually estimates talent dropoffs relative to cost, the Vikings won (from@LeeSharpeNFL)

LINK to chart
Click to expand...
Yeah well I dont really like the pff chart based on 2nd contracts as the metric of value.

I prefer the DD CS chart based on AV.

All of these metrics have their issues though.

I agree the JJ chart is very out of date.

 
-arcK- said:
I agree, and I think in normal years he gets more for that pick.

But this draft was one of those deep drafts where there were lots of solid prospects in the late 1st through 4th range, but not as much elite talent in that top half of the 1st. So less leverage in this case. I think he found the best deal he could get and rolled with it because he knew if he didn't he'd be forced to pick at 12 and then have very little capital to work with the remaining draft.

I mean just look at the guy picked 1st overall. Does he look like a dude that would be picked that high in other years? He may end up a fine player but I don't think right now he compares to a Mario Williams, Myles Garrett, Bosa type-of-prospect.

And I'm not just picking on him. Quite a few of the guys at the top have some potential warts, and while a few of them might end up pretty good, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "superstar" potential. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those guys have forgettable careers.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree with your assessment of the draft class overall and that is certainly a big factor.

We kind of know it was a somewhat flat draft class based on how many teams wanted to trade down.

I am glad they didnt stay at 12 to draft WR which was what teams traded up for.

I was kind of shocked with what the Jaguars did with pick one.

 
Well, at least the current leaders realized the last leaders had their heads up their behinds when it came to backup QB.
Tough way to start the new regime facing The Pack.. :oldunsure:
 
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