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2022 Minnesota Vikings (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
Not to put you on the spot Doug B, but since I've seen a lot of similar comments online I wanted to point out that this is the result of a perfectly timed photo op, and of course social media folks ran with it.Doug B said:
If you watch the actual video clip of this moment, Diggs is dancing in celebration as Payton approaches and extends the hand. As soon as Diggs notices him, he immediately stops dancing and reaches out to shake with him. He absolutely was not rubbing anything in Payton's face. It just appears that way in that singular snapshot. Real time paints a much different story: Twitter video
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Doug B
Footballguy
That's fine. Like I posted earlier, all good. If you guys aren't worried about a hangover, then there's no need for me to be worried about it.
Also, while on the subject of Diggs, he is taking a lot of flack for being a diva, but I don't think that narrative tells the true story. Yes he is a strange character, sometimes very fun-loving and goofy but also a fiery competitor. At the time he threw his helmet, naturally people just assume he was upset at not being targeted.
But there's a lot more to it than that. He was being double teamed much of the game and was also, in his mind, held a few times that he thought should have resulted in flags. Yes the Vikings had a lead at the time, but I think he was sensing what many fans were: we were going conservative and about to allow the Saints back into the game. He wants to win badly, and not only is frustrated that he hasn't been able to help the team, but he also wants to step on the gas, and get another score to go for the kill.
The media loves to make him out to be selfish, but in reality he will do whatever it takes to win. People don't notice but he's often the first person to run up and congratulate other guys on offense when they score or otherwise make a big play.
But there's a lot more to it than that. He was being double teamed much of the game and was also, in his mind, held a few times that he thought should have resulted in flags. Yes the Vikings had a lead at the time, but I think he was sensing what many fans were: we were going conservative and about to allow the Saints back into the game. He wants to win badly, and not only is frustrated that he hasn't been able to help the team, but he also wants to step on the gas, and get another score to go for the kill.
The media loves to make him out to be selfish, but in reality he will do whatever it takes to win. People don't notice but he's often the first person to run up and congratulate other guys on offense when they score or otherwise make a big play.
On that subject, you're right that the Vikings haven't accomplished anything yet. This team seems to thrive as underdogs, so I'm hoping they get that chip back on their shoulders as they hear talk all week that the Niners are a vastly superior squad.
I had very little hope that the Vikes had a shot against the Saints. The passing defense has been so bad all season I didn't think there was anyway the Vikes would stop it. I also have seen too many times where Zimmer goes ultra conservative and big games and gets down early and cannot ever come back. Based on all that I had very little hope and was very pleasantly surprised with the way they played.
Now I am stuck. Do I start to get hope again for this playoff season or do I revert back to having a mind set of not having a chance? I am feeling the playoff excitement creep into my consciousness which will probably only set me up for huge disappointment. I guess that is the life of a Vikings fan....hahahhaa
Now I am stuck. Do I start to get hope again for this playoff season or do I revert back to having a mind set of not having a chance? I am feeling the playoff excitement creep into my consciousness which will probably only set me up for huge disappointment. I guess that is the life of a Vikings fan....hahahhaa
Biabreakable
Footballguy
On that note I have been listening to 49ers radio and score predictions are like 31 17 Niners.
Of course their reasoning is facile and their ignorance of the Vikings is glaring to me.
I did learn they are expecting some key contributors to their defense coming back from injury such as Kwon Alexander. Their safety and Ford.
I also learned that the Vikings are the best defense against opposing TE in the league before they dismissed this having any impact on the Vikings stopping George Kittle.
The Vikings really have no chance.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The passing game gets all the hype but the key to me is the running game for each team. I'm not going to say that the Vikings will shut the Niners down in that area, but if they can just slow then down enough to keep them below their average output, and find a way to have some running success of their own, they've got a shot. The only game I can recall where Minnesota got absolutely run over was against Seattle with that 6-Lineman gameplan, and I hope they've got a plan for that should anyone else try it. If Mostert and company keep breaking big runs the Vikings are probably toast.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
One thing the guys I was listening to talk about the 49ers is that the Vikings have Gary Kubiak who is very familiar with what Skeletor Jr is doing on offense. I am hoping for another effective defensive game plan that leverages their intimate knowledge of the offense.
The same works for them too of course, and ultimately comes down to execution, but I can't really think of a better pair of coaches to game plan for the 49ers.
The guys I was listening to are really into stats and they pointed out that the 49ers defense is 30th or something against the run and they are particularly weak against the outside runs compared to the inside runs.
Well the Vikings like to run the ball outside a lot.
I learned something funny about Sendejo. I guess he didn't even practice last week (except Friday) and he had never played slot corner before. He said he wasn't practicing that during the week.
Its making me wonder if we think the slot corners responsibilities are not as big a deal as we think?
I know some otherwise very good players are not good fits for playing there.
Mike Zimmer did use 3 safeties with the Bengals before (likely out of necessity) so it isn't new to him, we just haven't seen that close to as much as they used 3 safeties in the game against the Saints.
I wonder if that continues in the next game or if ZImmer has some other personnel wrinkles for this match up.
This is why I think SF is a better matchup for the Vikings than the Saints were. It will undoubtedly come down to which team executes.
It also comes down to not being afraid to lose. Zimmer has a history of playing not to lose in the playoffs. In order to win they have to not be afraid to make mistakes. I would also like to see some early no huddle with roll outs by Cousins. The offense seems to click when they do that. It's another game that whoever gets out in front early is at a big advantage.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Heatman
Footballguy
Not only that but they have to do something to get that D line out of their game. That matchup is the only thing that really worries me. If their D line is allowed to run wild against our O line, it's game over.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Thielen with an ankle injury at today’s practice and listed as limited.
Was supposed to speak to the media but did not.
Not sure how bad it is, but doesn’t seem like a good thing.
Was supposed to speak to the media but did not.
Not sure how bad it is, but doesn’t seem like a good thing.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
There's a decent number of folks in the media thinking the Vikes have a legit shot this weekend.
Jimmy G is unproven to this point although that can change in the next 10-14 days depending on what he does but he is no sure thing.
I go back and forth. I don't feel like Cousins can win a track meet with San Fran. If Minnesota can hold SF to say 24, and that's with the Vikings getting 150+ rush yards and keeping the Niners offense off the field. I'm not really sure where I stand on this game yet.
Jimmy G is unproven to this point although that can change in the next 10-14 days depending on what he does but he is no sure thing.
I go back and forth. I don't feel like Cousins can win a track meet with San Fran. If Minnesota can hold SF to say 24, and that's with the Vikings getting 150+ rush yards and keeping the Niners offense off the field. I'm not really sure where I stand on this game yet.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
No it isn't.
Also Diggs hasn't been practicing because of an illness.
While I am not worried about an emotional let down following the game with the Saints the injuries could be a problem.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Dammit. I like the Vikings chances a lot more when the narrative is more strongly negative.
This is where the Vikings do have an edge I think. More experienced head coach. Team that has been there before.
The Vikings held New Orleans to 20 points recently. Why won't they be able to accomplish a similar result against the 49ers?
During the regular season the Vikings have given up 18.9 points per game.
The 49ers are a top 10 offense, same as the Vikings. Both teams have top 10 defenses as well (not sure why the 49ers I was listening to said they are not good at stopping the run).
Both teams are very similar in a lot of ways. Both use the FB and TE personnel groups more than most teams. It is a very similar scheme. On the defensive side of the ball you could argue for the 49ers having a better defensive line but maybe not when the Vikings are playing Hunter and Griffen inside. I think the Vikings have better LBers than the 49ers but if they are its maybe not by that much assuming Knon Alexander plays.
I think the teams are pretty evenly matched across the board. The 49ers have the home field advantage.
Sticking to the shtick though the Vikings have no chance against a clearly superior team that is the 49ers.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
When I saw that crawling across the bottom of my T.V. last night I thought the Vikings chances went out the door and frankly I thought those chances limited at best before the information. Still, one never knows. Crazy plays, crazy bounces, key personnel playing tight, experience and also inexperience. I'll watch with interest for what might happen, not for what I expect to happen. that is what makes sports great, injured road underdogs shocking the world.
Apparently it was a cut to his ankle that required stitches. This is a better scenario (I think) than rolling the ankle. Now it should be a matter of protecting the wound. Maybe he will pull a bloody sock Schilling performance and go for 190 yds and 3 TD's for the win.....
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Two or three stiches and thus cosmetic, or 20 to 40 stiches and thus debilitating? The world wants to know.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Sucks that it was a "friendly fire" incident in practice. Any team wants to get healthier during the week, not weaker.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Javon Kearse was downgraded to out for the game against the 49ers. The Vikings signed CB Nate Meadors to the active roster from their practice squad taking Alexanders spot on the roster.
I had no idea when I said this that the run game would swing so far in the Niners' favor.
sports_fan
Footballguy
Nothing uglier or more depressing than the offense line getting manhandled
BigJim®
Footballguy
Great season by the Vikes given team weaknesses.
The sooner Vikes accept that Elflein and Bradbury are busts, the sooner they can start turning OL around. They are not big or strong enough for NFL interior line play, and it is obvious. Vikes aren’t going to make many playoffs going 0-4 against top divisional DLs, and they are certain to meet up with similar DLs when they get there.
The sooner Vikes accept that Elflein and Bradbury are busts, the sooner they can start turning OL around. They are not big or strong enough for NFL interior line play, and it is obvious. Vikes aren’t going to make many playoffs going 0-4 against top divisional DLs, and they are certain to meet up with similar DLs when they get there.
snogger
Footballguy
Agree on the OL, disagree on the next "fix" being dline.. Need to find a replacement for Rhodes.. He is a shell of his former self.. Gets burned every single game and then looks for someone else to blame.. Also would like Kubiak to take over full control of the offense and take advantage of Rudolph's talent.
So, Zimmer and Kirk will be going into the 2020 season playing/coaching for their future
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Doug B
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
I did not watch the game. Did the Vikings match the 49ers intensity for 60 minutes?
When the Niners came to New Orleans, they had intensity coming out of their pores. Bosa’s a great catalyst, but still.
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snogger
Footballguy
Yea, I wouldn't say it was lack of effort like a couple years ago VS. the Eagles.. Just out played by a better team.
If they don't fix the OL, Zimmer and Kirk will be looking for a new home in 2021.
3 hour lunch
Footballguy
When either team was running the ball, line shifted 2 yards in the 49ers favor. Hard to win like that. We did seem to run it really well at times this year but today was a depressing clinic. Agree on o line being a priority but it’s easier said than done and many teams are in that boat. I’m just sick of my only great sports memory being from when was 13 years old. 
Guys on both side were playing their asses off. The difference was the Vikings O-line was manhandled by the Niners D-line and the Niners were able to run inside vs the Vikings at will.
I'd put CB #1. They honestly should just gut the entire group. Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander, I'd let all 3 go. Hopefully Hughes can become something, and Hill is a cheap and sometimes useful role player.
OL needs to get a big breakout in year 2 from Bradberry. I hated that pick at the time, and it didn't look good at all this year. That said, I think they need defensive help more. Not every team(or any team other than maybe Pittsburgh) has the 49ers DL dominance.
Vikings were out-rushed 186 yards to 21... how would improved CB have helped? Look I get this is a passing league, and Rhodes had a rough year. But when you get in the playoffs, you have to be able to execute to your strengths. Vikings weren't able to do that. If you can't even count on your strengths, what do the weaknesses matter?
And I think you're selling Waynes and Alexander short. They both had good years. This team has already drafted CB as priority over everything the last few years and it hasn't helped. This league is won in the trenches. You say that not every team matches the 49er DL dominance, and you're right. It might very well win them a Super Bowl.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I’m probably too hard on Bradbury. If he is the guy, he could benefit from a full offseason workout program and be stronger. It would probably help him being next to stronger guards.
OL is far and away more important than Defense though. It means imposing tempo, and allowing offensive players to be dynamic. It means keeping the defense off the field, playing with leads. It solves the Achilles heel that cripples the Vikes when playing the Bears and Packers.
Obviously Defense is important, I just think the Vikes need to find system players. JMHO, half the guys on that side of the ball are overpaid and/or drafted too high for soft zone schemes.
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I don't know how you grade CB's, but in no way did any Vikings CB have a good year. Rhodes didn't have a rough year, he sucks. This is his new normal. He's been in the league 7 years, and has 2 good ones. He's constantly beaten both deep and over the middle, while also being a penalty machine. At this point a random day 3 rookie is probably as good as Rhodes, and obviously far cheaper. Waynes has never been good, Alexander has some ability, but is an impending FA, and is a slot only player.
I think it'd be a foolish move by the front office, if they looked at this game, and said, what can we do to do better against the 49ers, instead of what can we do to be a better team. Also, improved CB play would have allowed them to play the run heavier, and perhaps they wouldn't have given up crucial 1st downs on 3rd down.
I don't disagree that the OL could use help, or the DL, but at least they have some talent at those spots. CB may as well be a black hole. They are a bottom 5 in the NFL group. The good news for the Vikings, is that beyond those things, there isn't much they need.
Ultimately, the Vikings season ended exactly where it should have, based on the talent they currently have. Which I believe gives me a pretty neutral opinion of the coaching staff, as they neither succeeded or failed.
whole-show
Footballguy
sports_fan
Footballguy
snogger
Footballguy
Well, I'm just going by the eyeball test. I saw Waynes and Alexander break up some passes, and they were often competing even when beat. At least when I watched them. Although to be fair, maybe I'm just measuring them against Rhodes, who was burnt toasted so often they looked good by comparison. Ha!
But you do make some good points, and I agree Vikings need to move on from Rhodes for sure. So they'll definitely have to draft or sign a replacement.
Regarding the O-line issue, though, I'd argue that the front office wouldn't just be looking at this past game. They also had eerily similar results versus both the Packers and Bears this year. Right now, if the Vikings face a team with a good defensive line, it's almost guaranteed they'll get beat even if the D performs well.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I totally get the instinct, but I'm not spending another second judging offensive coaches or players until the Vikes get an OL who doesn't get pushed 2 yards back at the snap. I just don't think you can fairly evaluate what you have or expect improvement from change. What may be brilliant or dynamic has zero chance to be that.
I wouldn't mind bringing Shurmur back.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Its hard to measure or quantify that.
It felt like the Vikings were matching them early on in the game, but what ended up happening was similar to what happened when they played against the Seahawks.
The 49ers came out throwing on their scripted plays and had a successful drive moving the ball that way. The Vikings adjusted their defense to put more coverage on Sanders who had some good plays early on. The 49ers were using Deebo Samuel a bit then and after they forced a fumble of Samuel that was over turned because his knee was down, that is where the defense seemed to start playing with less energy and Skeletor Jr realized that Zimmer was focusing on stopping the pass with his play calls.
The 49ers just ran the ball for the rest of the game at that point. They couldn't stop it. The 49ers offensive line was firing off quicker than the defensive line would react. They couldmt disrupt their blocking. Shamar and Joseph were getting driven back 3 to 4 yards and the RB for the most part just had to get behind that and then gain yards after contact. Occasionally a hole would open for them and they could get more, but what they were getting from the offensive line push was enough to keep the chains moving and they didn't really need to throw the ball anymore.
Pass to set up the run. Zimmer never adjusted or rather his adjustment was used against him. Same thing happened in Seattle. ZImmer will focus on stopping the pass and let the other team run the ball. it is an overall strategy he has that makes a bit of sense considering the pass is more likely to lead to points than the run.
But when you don't stop the run you dont have a chance to win because the defense stays on the field and gets worn down eventually. Runs start working better the longer that goes on.
As far as the emotional part of the game I think the Vikings matched that up to the fumble being over turned. Then they faltered.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Shurmur did a great job for the Vikings before. I would be happy to have him back.BigJim® said:
As far as the offensive line as we have discussed before they tend to start off pretty bad and do not start playing their best football until their 3rd season. I think Bradbury is worth having some optimism about him improving.
Elflien I think we have seen enough.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Vikings players with high salaries who could be let go this offseason.
Cousins, Diggs and Hunter will be the highest contracts the Vikings have in 2020 and those players are staying. They get no cap relief by moving Cousins and Hunters contract is a bargain.
After them you have Griffen, Reiff and Rhodes.
Griffen wants to come back. I think he played really well this year. They wont be able to pay him as much as he is under contract for though. It is less than a million in dead cap to release him. I am guessing the Vikings work something out with him at a discount because of his age. If not they should let him go.
Riley Reif hasn't played very well and not worth $13 million he is set to make in 2020. The Vikings can get rid of him for a $4.4 million cap hit. I think Josh Hill has played well and they also have Udoh who has looked alright when he played. They also have Collins. I am not sure if they want to move O'Neil to the left side or not, but I think they have replacements who can step in if they let Reiff go.
Rhodes is under contract for just under $13 million in 2020. They take a cap hit of $4.8 million by releasing him. The net savings makes this a move I expect to happen.
The 7th highest contract for 2020 goes to Linval Joseph who from my perspective hasn't played as well as he has in the past. He isn't doing his job of occupying multiple blockers well enough to be paid that much. They take a hit of $2.4 million letting him go.
After this the next highest salaries are Thielen, Barr, Harrison Smith, Kendricks and I am not expecting any changes with contracts and these players.
After them you have Kyle Rudolph who don't think they should have signed to a new contract last year. He has a $5.8 million cap hit if they did which is higher than the penalty of cutting the players above will incur if they cut them. I disagree with it but it looks like they will have Rudolph for another season. He did improve as a blocker this year but I still think he is over payed for what he does.
After this you have Josh Kline and Shamar Stephen with the biggest contracts. Both have dead cap penalties for cutting them. I am not satisfied with how Stephen plays and he is being over payed for what should be a depth player only not a starter. I don't want him back but the Vikings only save $2.4 million getting rid of him.
I think Mackenzie Alexander played well enough that it would be good to give him a new deal. Depends on the market though, another team may be willing to pay him more than he is worth. Waynes is also a free agent and I think I might prefer Alexander over him. One thing I want to say about the Vikings corners is that they have been good tacklers. Waynes has blown up a ton of screens and things of that nature.
Anthony Harris is a free agent. He has been excellent. I wonder if he will stay with the Vikings or not. He isn't going to be cheap although safeties tend to make the lowest contracts relative to other positions, he has to be the priority to re-sign out of the free agent defensive backs.
Then there are players the Vikings want to extend like Dalvin Cook in the last year of their contracts to consider.
There are going to be some major changes here whether they want to or not. They Vikings are $5 million over the projected salary cap right now so something has to give and a lot more has to give for the Vikings to have any money for free agency and their draft picks.
Cousins, Diggs and Hunter will be the highest contracts the Vikings have in 2020 and those players are staying. They get no cap relief by moving Cousins and Hunters contract is a bargain.
After them you have Griffen, Reiff and Rhodes.
Griffen wants to come back. I think he played really well this year. They wont be able to pay him as much as he is under contract for though. It is less than a million in dead cap to release him. I am guessing the Vikings work something out with him at a discount because of his age. If not they should let him go.
Riley Reif hasn't played very well and not worth $13 million he is set to make in 2020. The Vikings can get rid of him for a $4.4 million cap hit. I think Josh Hill has played well and they also have Udoh who has looked alright when he played. They also have Collins. I am not sure if they want to move O'Neil to the left side or not, but I think they have replacements who can step in if they let Reiff go.
Rhodes is under contract for just under $13 million in 2020. They take a cap hit of $4.8 million by releasing him. The net savings makes this a move I expect to happen.
The 7th highest contract for 2020 goes to Linval Joseph who from my perspective hasn't played as well as he has in the past. He isn't doing his job of occupying multiple blockers well enough to be paid that much. They take a hit of $2.4 million letting him go.
After this the next highest salaries are Thielen, Barr, Harrison Smith, Kendricks and I am not expecting any changes with contracts and these players.
After them you have Kyle Rudolph who don't think they should have signed to a new contract last year. He has a $5.8 million cap hit if they did which is higher than the penalty of cutting the players above will incur if they cut them. I disagree with it but it looks like they will have Rudolph for another season. He did improve as a blocker this year but I still think he is over payed for what he does.
After this you have Josh Kline and Shamar Stephen with the biggest contracts. Both have dead cap penalties for cutting them. I am not satisfied with how Stephen plays and he is being over payed for what should be a depth player only not a starter. I don't want him back but the Vikings only save $2.4 million getting rid of him.
I think Mackenzie Alexander played well enough that it would be good to give him a new deal. Depends on the market though, another team may be willing to pay him more than he is worth. Waynes is also a free agent and I think I might prefer Alexander over him. One thing I want to say about the Vikings corners is that they have been good tacklers. Waynes has blown up a ton of screens and things of that nature.
Anthony Harris is a free agent. He has been excellent. I wonder if he will stay with the Vikings or not. He isn't going to be cheap although safeties tend to make the lowest contracts relative to other positions, he has to be the priority to re-sign out of the free agent defensive backs.
Then there are players the Vikings want to extend like Dalvin Cook in the last year of their contracts to consider.
There are going to be some major changes here whether they want to or not. They Vikings are $5 million over the projected salary cap right now so something has to give and a lot more has to give for the Vikings to have any money for free agency and their draft picks.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Pat Shurmur is not an option as he signed a deal with the Broncos.
