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2022 Minnesota Vikings (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Bengals signed Waynes.
Didn't see that coming.
Didn't see that coming.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Read the Browns have interest and that Vikings might be asking for 2nd or 3rd rounder.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Free agency roundup: Trae Waynes agrees to deal with Bengals; Anthony Harris headed to Cleveland?
Vikings reportedly seeking a 2nd round pick for Harris. As Judd points out they must want the pick this year instead of next year, where they would likely get a high comp pick for letting Harris go.
I was happily surprised when the Vikings tagged Harris, thinking that meant they would keep him, that was unexpected based on Zimmers comments about the relative value of players at the safety position. I am less enthused about them francising him to trade him. I suppose a 3rd round pick this year is worth more than a comp pick next year. I don't like any bad blood it might incur from the locker room though and if it were me I would try to keep Harris and maintain the best safety duo in the NFL.
They are getting a bit long in the tooth though and for budget reasons as well, perhaps the Vikings want to get younger there as they will need to be developing replacements anyways, when the drop in performance comes, it comes quickly as we saw with Xavier Rhodes last season.
Vikings reportedly seeking a 2nd round pick for Harris. As Judd points out they must want the pick this year instead of next year, where they would likely get a high comp pick for letting Harris go.
I was happily surprised when the Vikings tagged Harris, thinking that meant they would keep him, that was unexpected based on Zimmers comments about the relative value of players at the safety position. I am less enthused about them francising him to trade him. I suppose a 3rd round pick this year is worth more than a comp pick next year. I don't like any bad blood it might incur from the locker room though and if it were me I would try to keep Harris and maintain the best safety duo in the NFL.
They are getting a bit long in the tooth though and for budget reasons as well, perhaps the Vikings want to get younger there as they will need to be developing replacements anyways, when the drop in performance comes, it comes quickly as we saw with Xavier Rhodes last season.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
As long as Waynes starts most of the games for the Bengals I think they should be looking at a similar comp pick as they got for Richardson, a 3rd rounder. If Harris signed a similarly high contract, then we could expect similar comp pick for him as well. All of this depends on if the Vikings sign any free agents themselves however. They don't have the money to do that, but if they did sign someone to similarly big contract as Waynes and that player starts similar number of games for the Vikings, then it could be a wash.
Yeah Waynes is one of the reasons I like how Harris plays the ball all the time. Waynes never does that, he just plays the receiver. That catch by Sutton last year with Waynes draped all over him really stands out to me. Any kind of play on the ball by Waynes and that doesn't happen. I would call it fluke play if Waynes were not so consistent with how he does not play the ball.
eta - Waynes is a great tackler and that may be missed.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
When the Vikings suck this year people will blame it on Cousins' contract when it's really due to crappy drafting.
Since 2011, here are their first rounders:
Ponder
Kalil
Sharif Floyd
Rhodes
Barr
Waynes
Treadwell
Hughes
Bradbury
When do we start talking about moving on from Spielman?
Since 2011, here are their first rounders:
Ponder
Kalil
Sharif Floyd
Rhodes
Barr
Waynes
Treadwell
Hughes
Bradbury
When do we start talking about moving on from Spielman?
BigJim®
Footballguy
Cordarrell Patterson also.
ETA: I think Spielman has been ok when looking at all rounds, but the reason I don't think he is suited for the job is his (reported, and track-record proven) view on value of OL. You can't successfully draft WR/QB/RB/TE with that mentality, and I'd say can't expect to be among NFL elites. It's the straw that stirs and a GM has to understand that.
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FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
They just cut Kline?? Hope they have some sort of plan for the line!!
Biabreakable
Footballguy
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Michael Pierce...that's what I am hearing.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Mackenzie Alexander to the Bengals. Good riddance.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Javon Kearse to the Lions.
The Vikings might want to hang on to Harris but them publicly shopping him can't be good for their relationship.
The Vikings might want to hang on to Harris but them publicly shopping him can't be good for their relationship.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Why would you not trade for Brandin Cook's?
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Because he is very expensive?
How do they afford him?
Otherwise it looks like a perfect fit.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Like the Pierce move a lot. He's a decent upgrade from Linval, and was only slightly more expensive.
He's an elite run defender, like possibly the best in the NFL. He offers little as a pass rusher, but they know that going in. If he were a good pass rusher, he's getting 4-5 million more per year.
Other than the Ham move, I've really liked the Vikings offseason. I don't really think this is a rebuilding team, more of a retooling. They've been fixing past errors. They have trimmed a lot of fat, without losing anyone vital, other than maybe Diggs, whom they got a nice return on.
He's an elite run defender, like possibly the best in the NFL. He offers little as a pass rusher, but they know that going in. If he were a good pass rusher, he's getting 4-5 million more per year.
Other than the Ham move, I've really liked the Vikings offseason. I don't really think this is a rebuilding team, more of a retooling. They've been fixing past errors. They have trimmed a lot of fat, without losing anyone vital, other than maybe Diggs, whom they got a nice return on.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Zimmer and Spielman are on the hot seat. They need to win now.
The salary cap situation and Diggs trade (which the Vikings did not want to do but were forced to by Diggs) however is forcing them to rebuild.
The Vikings just got blown off the ball against the 49ers, so I understand the need for Pierce to help shore that up (Linval failed).
The addition of Capers does suggest the Vikings may be looking at using more uneven fronts, if they do a strong NT helps facilitate that.
I was listening to Eric Eager from pff and he was talking about a study he did which found that defense improve year over year by cuangingvtheir scheme and the Vikings defense has to change because of all the players they have lost there.
Shamar Stephen was one of the worst DT in the NFL last year. He needs to be replaced too.
Regarding the bolded, I have wondered if Barr might see more edge rusher work with Griffin gone. Pass rushing is the best part of Barr's game in my opinion, and they often do him a disservice by not taking greater advantage of it, and instead asking him to cover, which is arguably his greatest weakness.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This has been something that gets talked about every year.
If Barr made more of an impact as a pass rusher, it would justify his contract more.
Maybe this year that actually happens.
If they do use some 3'4 fronts, I expect it to be only a small number of their plays. I expect the defense to still be primarily a 4-3 but I do think Zimmer has plans to change things up and Capers will have some input on ways to do that. Zimmer has used 3-4 at times with the Bengals. If they do it likely would only be 10% of their snaps or something, but even that may be enough of a wrinkle to help the defense keep opposing teams guessing.
If it takes Stephen off the field it seems like a win to me.
I am interested in Maliek Collins from the Cowboys to replace Stephen, but the Vikings likely can't afford him, if they are interested I don't know.
From what I have seen f Barr as a pass rusher is he gets blocked too easily. So I am not sure I would agree with that being his best ability. While Barr has been beaten in coverage quite a few times, he is actually really good at that. TE do not do very well against the Vikings and Barr is part of why that is.
encaitar
Footballguy
According to Spotrac, after everything that's been done so far.... including holding money expected for the draft slots we currently have.... the Vikings have just south of $9M in cap space. Given that the $11M that Harris is taking is likely gone according to reports, that gives us nearly $20M to make an impact with elsewhere.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Heatman
Footballguy
They now have a ton of draft capitol in an unprecedented WR draft. My guess is Diggs will be replaced with a rookie or two.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
True but they need a nearly compete defensive backfield, interior defensive line, and a couple guards. If a talent like Cooks could be had for say a third, and that's likely the highest it'd be, then they're free to use that draft capitol for those other positions.
Not trying to start a big argument here, but curious why you say that... He seemed to be solid last year as the nickel corner. While Rhodes was getting burnt toasted seemingly every other play, I don't recall many times where the slot receiver tore Alexander up.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I just don't think he's very good. Being better than Rhodes isn't something to hang your hat on.
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Well I was only making the comparison because it was obvious how bad Rhodes was... but did it seem to you like Alexander was getting beat like crazy? From what I read, PFF had rated him in the upper half of nickel corners the past couple of years. And the eyeball test told me that although he wasn't one of the best on our D, he certainly wasn't one of the big problems. The way you reacted to him signing with the Bengals made it seem like you thought he was a huge liability, and I'd argue there were other spots on D I was much more concerned with.
Heatman
Footballguy
Might as well see what Perriman would cost if he's really flipped the switch. Then they save all of their draft picks.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
He was constantly out of position.
He's rated highly as a tackler because he always had to tackle the guy that had just made the catch.
His awareness is sub par.
Well, I'm certain there's one thing we can both agree on... regardless of what we thought of the guys who are gone, we sure do need a bunch of corners now!
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think Andy presented a few stir the pot type posts recently. Alexander good enough to start and start outside like he wants, but he resisted coaching to play inside. This would have been his chance to move up the depth chart, I dont think he and the coaches wanted that after the bad blood though.
I do think Alexander played better than Andy gives him credit for, but the Vikings replaced him with Sendejo without missing him much too.
I do think Alexander played better than Andy gives him credit for, but the Vikings replaced him with Sendejo without missing him much too.
Well Andy is a passionate fan, just like the rest of us. It would be nice to have studs everywhere, but there are going to be spots where you have average ok guys, and I think that's what Alexander was. I think it just hurts to lose him because now that's so many dang CB spots to fill this offseason. Would have been nice to at least keep him, so we'd only have to fill the outside guys. However, I wouldn't support keeping him at an inflated price (not sure what the Bengals gave him?)...
But hey, it is what it is. We were pretty much expecting this situation.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah it's all under the bridge now.
I do think the plan was for him to take over at this point.
This is why I wish they would keep Harris. He is worth the price and at least the corners will have help.
I do think the plan was for him to take over at this point.
This is why I wish they would keep Harris. He is worth the price and at least the corners will have help.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Alexander got a 1 year deal for $4 million from the Bengals.
Pretty weak market for him.
Pretty weak market for him.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Vikings re-sign OT Rashod Hill
Hill has played well when called on the last couple years, glad they kept him.
Hill has played well when called on the last couple years, glad they kept him.
Its a pretty small sum. I think you are in trouble if Alexander is a top-2 CB on your team, but then again, I think he and Waynes were similar caliber players(albeit entirely different types) and he's getting 3 times that much.
Right now the starters are what, Holton Hill, Mike Hughes and maybe Marcus Sherels(as he seems to always find his way back) in the slot? That sounds pretty bad, but honestly, I'm not sure its worse than Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander.
2 FA's I'd be interested in(I know the cap is tight but these guys likely aren't that expensive, and don't effect the comp pick formula) are Nickell Robey-Coleman(arguably the league's best slot CB) and Prince Amukamara, who as a Bears fan, I was very sorry to see go, and thought he was arguably the team's best DB.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Zulgad: No laughing matter: Vikings’ moves create confusion, not confidence
I think Zulgad may be wrong about the savings the Vikings got from cutting Josh kline, as I read somewhere they got additional $2 million savings by cutting him before a specific date. The details of these contracts that even journalists don't really know. I would agree he wasn't as bad as Elflien though. That doesn't mean he was good.
Really I think the main problem is that they brought back Barr and Rudolph last season, when they should have been let go.
I think Zulgad may be wrong about the savings the Vikings got from cutting Josh kline, as I read somewhere they got additional $2 million savings by cutting him before a specific date. The details of these contracts that even journalists don't really know. I would agree he wasn't as bad as Elflien though. That doesn't mean he was good.
Really I think the main problem is that they brought back Barr and Rudolph last season, when they should have been let go.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Quinton Dunbar up the Seahawks for a 5th?
What, he doesn't fit the Vikings scheme? His $3.4m contact was too much?
Spielman had the day off?
What, he doesn't fit the Vikings scheme? His $3.4m contact was too much?
Spielman had the day off?
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Hoping they can package their two first rounders to get up into the teens and get a good Offensive Lineman...maybe get a 2nd rounder back in the deal and go CB and WR in the 2nd round.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
What do you guys think of Van Jefferson as a fall back or additional option at WR if he is there in the 3rd round?
Any other late WR (outside the top 12) who you think would be good?
Any other late WR (outside the top 12) who you think would be good?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Antonio Gandy-Golden Liberty
Gabriel Davis UCF
Isaiah Coulter Rhode Island
Lynn Bowden Kentucky
Gabriel Davis UCF
Isaiah Coulter Rhode Island
Lynn Bowden Kentucky
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I haven't watched Coulter.
I did watch these other guys and they dont seem ready.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Neither is Van Jefferson.
(Un)Fortunately they're not going to need to be since the Bikes are going to be bad with or without a 3rd round WR contributing.
