FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I've got no more guesses, but being from South Dakota I hope they take one or both of these guys: Kameron Cline (USD) or Derreck Tuszka (NDSU)
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2022 Minnesota Vikings (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
- Start date
Donnybrook
Footballguy
After TJ Clemmings, the Vikings have to think twice about rescuing falling OT. There has got to be a reason teams passed on Wanogho.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
JR Reed and Thad Moss???
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
I really like the picks of Dye (Kentrell Brothers' special teams' spot), Cole, Hand and Metellus (Jayron Kearse and Holton Hill's St spots) for depth...perfect thing to look for late in the draft!
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
And when I watch James Lynch I think of Chris Hovan...and that is a good thing!
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think Kubiak and Debision at least have a plan and a type of player they are looking to develop in offensive linemen.
I think this vision of the offense and offensive line play was somewhat directionless prior to them coming to the team.
Some guys still won't work out, but I think they have a plan now and the depth there has been improving.
az_prof
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Its kind of like Zimmers defense. Certain players fit the scheme and because they have a plan they are able to find players other teams might not even be interested in that will work in his defense. A lot of that is just having a plan and sticking to it.
Zimmer did not have near the same vision for the offense. He has delegated that responsibility and they have kept changing their offensive coaches.
The offense needed a visionary too. I think they have that now.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I enjoyed watching him for awhile earlier today.
He has good hands. Most of what I saw he was lining up as a DE in a 3-4 so he was taking on a lot of double teams and winning his share of them.
He is able to swat away defenders hands a lot. Now the pro players will be much better, but its good to see him winning that way often. He has some skill. He can get pretty low and bend the corner as well.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Spielman Reflects on Record-Setting Draft Class, Analyzes Day-Three Picks, More
He talks about their evaluation of the rookie free agents and what positions will be easier or harder for them to sign. They thought the DE position would be light in free agency, so they prioritized drafting those players. The WR position they thought was deep so they signed some free agents there instead of drafting them.
He says he doesn't know how good next years draft will be, but they already have 12 picks in 2021. It also is pointed out that picks can be traded for players during the season if they have an injury some where. An example of this is when they traded a 7th round pick for Brett Jones.
He points out that Andre Patterson has earned the respect for what he sees in defensive players and what he can do with them.
In regards to the offensive line he points out that they are very excited about the players they drafted last year and how they are developing. He says them playing the back up linemen in the last game of the season was really good for them to be able to play those guys in that game and the coaches feel good about how well they played in that game. Specifically Udoh but he says good things about Samia and Collins as well. Collins isn't really a new player, but he mentions him.
They do have some depth at tackle. The question is more about who is going to play guard.
He says they are going to have an open competition especially at the guard spots. The coaches will decide who are the best 5 linemen to start.
He talks about their evaluation of the rookie free agents and what positions will be easier or harder for them to sign. They thought the DE position would be light in free agency, so they prioritized drafting those players. The WR position they thought was deep so they signed some free agents there instead of drafting them.
He says he doesn't know how good next years draft will be, but they already have 12 picks in 2021. It also is pointed out that picks can be traded for players during the season if they have an injury some where. An example of this is when they traded a 7th round pick for Brett Jones.
He points out that Andre Patterson has earned the respect for what he sees in defensive players and what he can do with them.
In regards to the offensive line he points out that they are very excited about the players they drafted last year and how they are developing. He says them playing the back up linemen in the last game of the season was really good for them to be able to play those guys in that game and the coaches feel good about how well they played in that game. Specifically Udoh but he says good things about Samia and Collins as well. Collins isn't really a new player, but he mentions him.
They do have some depth at tackle. The question is more about who is going to play guard.
He says they are going to have an open competition especially at the guard spots. The coaches will decide who are the best 5 linemen to start.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
If they can agree to a long term deal with Harris and lower the cap number, I think they could sign Griffen back and get a veteran corner...
Biabreakable
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
Just listened to Barreiro/Sunday Sermons podcast and can’t disagree with anything I heard. Calling the guard position ‘wide open’ is an almost laughable way of framing ‘we lost our starter and did nothing to replace him.’ It was depressing to hear that the Vikes have had just one pro bowl OL in past 10 years (rookie Kalil, as an alternate). Out of 125 OL selected. This can’t come as a surprise to any fan who has watched this team.
I’ll always bleed purple, but I’m not kidding myself accepting raving draft reviews. I don’t care if the Vikes found 3, 5 or 8 pieces among their 12 picks. Post-draft, this must be viewed as yet another offseason of OL neglect. Set aside being overwhelmed at LOS in divisional losses, I get that was forgotten when they somehow made the playoffs. However, everyone, everywhere, acknowledged OL was the ‘must fix’ Achilles heel after watching the SF loss... where they gave up 5 sacks, countless pressures, and ran the ball a couple dozen yards. They were manhandled and exposed, in a way that can’t be overcome - no matter what talent is elsewhere on the team. That is still the Vikes OL today, minus a vet guard and plus a good but not great rookie tackle.
I’ll be the first to celebrate OL improvement, but I’m going to need it to materialize first. I won’t pretend it magically happened. This front office has earned zero credibility.
I’ll always bleed purple, but I’m not kidding myself accepting raving draft reviews. I don’t care if the Vikes found 3, 5 or 8 pieces among their 12 picks. Post-draft, this must be viewed as yet another offseason of OL neglect. Set aside being overwhelmed at LOS in divisional losses, I get that was forgotten when they somehow made the playoffs. However, everyone, everywhere, acknowledged OL was the ‘must fix’ Achilles heel after watching the SF loss... where they gave up 5 sacks, countless pressures, and ran the ball a couple dozen yards. They were manhandled and exposed, in a way that can’t be overcome - no matter what talent is elsewhere on the team. That is still the Vikes OL today, minus a vet guard and plus a good but not great rookie tackle.
I’ll be the first to celebrate OL improvement, but I’m going to need it to materialize first. I won’t pretend it magically happened. This front office has earned zero credibility.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
A step further is that they were manhandled on BOTH line of scrimmages. The DL was dominated just as much as the O-Line in that playoff loss. The Vikes need help on both lines....not just the O-line.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Do Vikings fans think there would be any possibility of a Ryan Kerrigan for Reiff/Rudolph trade? Here is my argument....
- MIN(~$13Mil in cap space) I know it looks like MIN is too far up against the cap to really make this happen but in this case I think a player for players trade makes sense. Both Rudolph and Reiff have bad contracts. They just drafted Ezra Cleveland very early, and even added Blake Brandel as a developmental OT so I think they would likely be willing to get out from under the Reiff contract. The Rudolph contract is even worse because of how long it runs. Stefanski and his 2-TE system are moving on to CLE so does Irv Smith take over as the full time guy? Making this trade frees up enough cap space to keep both Cook and Anthony Harris happy AND gives them a pass rusher to team with Hunter. There has even been talk of moving Barr to DE they are so desperate for a DE. Having Kerrigan on a one year deal allows time for Wonnum(a day 3 pick in the draft) to possibly develop. On the WAS side of the trade you are upgrading from Geron Christian(LT)/Jeremy Sprinke(TE) to Reiff(LT)/Rudolph(TE). Which pair helps to make Haskins successful? Sure Reiff/Rudolph are overpaid BUT Haskins is still on his rookie deal and the GIANT Alex Smith salary cap his is set to mercifully come off the cap before you have to make a decision on whether to extend Haskins or not. For that matter WAS is ~$36Mil under the cap right now so they might be able to slide some of the money in the Reiff/Rudolph into the 2020 cap in a restructure anyway. This deal makes too much sense on both sides not too happen.
... just wanted to hear opinions from both WAS fans and MIN fans. Seems like a rare "win-win" to me.
- MIN(~$13Mil in cap space) I know it looks like MIN is too far up against the cap to really make this happen but in this case I think a player for players trade makes sense. Both Rudolph and Reiff have bad contracts. They just drafted Ezra Cleveland very early, and even added Blake Brandel as a developmental OT so I think they would likely be willing to get out from under the Reiff contract. The Rudolph contract is even worse because of how long it runs. Stefanski and his 2-TE system are moving on to CLE so does Irv Smith take over as the full time guy? Making this trade frees up enough cap space to keep both Cook and Anthony Harris happy AND gives them a pass rusher to team with Hunter. There has even been talk of moving Barr to DE they are so desperate for a DE. Having Kerrigan on a one year deal allows time for Wonnum(a day 3 pick in the draft) to possibly develop. On the WAS side of the trade you are upgrading from Geron Christian(LT)/Jeremy Sprinke(TE) to Reiff(LT)/Rudolph(TE). Which pair helps to make Haskins successful? Sure Reiff/Rudolph are overpaid BUT Haskins is still on his rookie deal and the GIANT Alex Smith salary cap his is set to mercifully come off the cap before you have to make a decision on whether to extend Haskins or not. For that matter WAS is ~$36Mil under the cap right now so they might be able to slide some of the money in the Reiff/Rudolph into the 2020 cap in a restructure anyway. This deal makes too much sense on both sides not too happen.
... just wanted to hear opinions from both WAS fans and MIN fans. Seems like a rare "win-win" to me.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
No. I think the Vikes are praying that Cleveland is good enough to start as a rookie so they can kick Reiff inside.
And Speilman just loves Rudolph.
And Speilman just loves Rudolph.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Agreed, although I think a good bit of draft ammo was used toward DL, and this team has more credibility drafting that need successfully late. I realize I'm earning the debbie downer label, but it really sort of surprises me how short memories are. Why it's accepted as an imperative to solve DB and WR early in drafts, but to tolerate inadequacy at OL for over a decade? In a system that relies on running the ball and paying $30MM per to a statuesque QB? If this front office was an auto shop, they'd be putting Pirelli tires on a Yugo expecting to burn rubber in the next race.
I totally agree with you. The O-Line should be the top priority by a long way. I was shocked they weren't able to get a deal done for Williams. I thought that made the most sense and an instant upgrade. Really disappointed we couldn't have made the same deal or even better for just picks.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I would bet it was paying Williams that was the problem.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
That's what I thought too, which is why I was surprised that you didn't think MIN would be willing to deal Reiff/Rudolph.
Reiff is actually going to make more money than Trent Williams this year. That looks even more crazy if they are paying him that much money to play G as you suggest.
Rudolph is scheduled to make....
2020 ~$8.8Mil
2021 ~$9.5Mil
2022 ~$10.3Mil
2023 ~$11.7Mil(.... he turns 34 during the season)
It seems to me that Rudolph isn't going to be on the roster in the TEBC that much longer anyway. I think last time they assumed Rudolph would just renegotiate a team friendly deal and that's how they ended up getting into THIS contract.
Not saying that I know the Vikings better than you do, just saying that it's an interesting way they have chosen to manage their cap space. We know for sure WAS was willing to budge on a 5th and a future 3rd for Williams. MIN had two 5th rounders, one of which they used for the third CB selected in this draft and the other was for the second WR they selected in this draft. I guess it's hard for me to believe they couldn't(or shouldn't) have simply offered the same SF deal and through in either of the overpaid players to make the salary cap ramifications work. WAS is wayyyyyy under the cap so I doubt they would have flinched at taking on the bad contract of either player. Maybe Williams was willing to play for SF under his current contract but unwilling to play for MIN under his current contract, that may have been the difference.
All WAS has gotten out of the SF trade(so far) is Keith Ismail. He's a player that I would expect to have a tough time making the roster even on a WAS team with a very bad OL. At least whichever overpaid player they would have received from MIN would have contributed on the field right away. Still say WAS should have just let Williams continue his voluntary retirement for another entire year if he so chose. Maybe the Redskins 2020 season will hinge on the contributions they get from Keith Ismail..... but I'm taking the "under" on that. Admittedly, when players under contract want to behave like they are FA's it does frustrate me. It's the message sent to Haskins(?)/Young(?)/McLaurin(?) that if you pout long enough WAS will just deal you away for a ham sandwich to a team of your choosing.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Huh. I was reading something that BoltBacker posted in the WIlliams thread that said Williams nixed the trade to MN once they drafted Ezra Cleveland.
Is that not correct?
Williams hasn't played for like 2 seasons. No one knows if he will play at a similarly high level that he once did or not. Entirely possible that Reif is better than him for the Vikings right now.
The Vikings couldn't afford to pay Williams what he wants unless they moved one of their higher contract players.
I think it was more trouble than its worth when there is no guarantee that Williams would upgrade their starting line up.
Maybe if Cleveland and Jones were drafted before pick 58 this would have changed the Vikings minds, but they didn't.
As far as Kyle Rudolphs contract I never wanted them to sign him to a new deal. He did do a better job of blocking last season than I have seen from him before.
Is that not correct?
Williams hasn't played for like 2 seasons. No one knows if he will play at a similarly high level that he once did or not. Entirely possible that Reif is better than him for the Vikings right now.
The Vikings couldn't afford to pay Williams what he wants unless they moved one of their higher contract players.
I think it was more trouble than its worth when there is no guarantee that Williams would upgrade their starting line up.
Maybe if Cleveland and Jones were drafted before pick 58 this would have changed the Vikings minds, but they didn't.
As far as Kyle Rudolphs contract I never wanted them to sign him to a new deal. He did do a better job of blocking last season than I have seen from him before.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I think i asked in here and I think there is a thread in FFA. I went last year for the first time and went to a T-Wolves game Friday, a Wild game Saturday and the Vikings on Sunday. I stayed downtown at the Minneapolis Marriott City Center. I could take the Blue/Green Line anywhere I needed to go including from the airport. I did not rent a car. It was real easy and excellent. The Stadium is about a 10 block walk from there.
simsarge
Footballguy
snogger
Footballguy
IMO, Colts are still a year or two away.. Rivers is basically a stop gap until they find their next QB..
Texans are not as scary now with Hopkins being gone and the other changes...
Saints are always dangerous.. and the Bucs with Brady are going to be interesting to watch.. He has all the offensive weapons he could ever want, so no excuses..
My Way too early prediction..
Home vs. Packers - W
@Colts - W
Home vs. Titans - W
@Texans - 50/50 but going with - W
@Seahawks - L
Home vs. Falcons - W
@Packers - L
Home vs. Lions - W
@Bears -W
Home vs. Dallas - W
Home vs. Panthers - W
Home vs. Jags - W
@Bucs - L
Home vs. Bears - W
@ Saints - L
@Lions - W
12-4 or 11-5 .. Too much Homer love ...
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
Vikes were 0-4 vs Pack/Bears last year. I'm not going to say way too much homer love (homer love keeps me optimistic) but would be interested to read how you see the Vikes overcoming the LOS debacles that sealed their fate against Bears/Pack in 2019? Being at that home game vs the Pack on 12/23 left a bad taste in my mouth that I just can't shake.
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snogger
Footballguy
Purple
IMO, those 4 games, for whatever reason, were very poorly played/prepared/coached games.. IMO, they didn't loss due to lack of talent.
Now, their Defense did loss some key players, but also got rid of some "dead weight".. Hopefully Capers can help make them more aggressive.
But I believe the Offense is actually better then last year.. Digg's was becoming a Cancer on the team that needed to be removed. Would have liked them to address the OL more in the off season..
But hopefully the coaching staff learned last year what works and what doesn't with Cousin's and they let Kubiak run the offense 100%.
They lost at the Bears by 2 points and the Bears still have their crappy QB..
The Game at home vs. the Bears was one of the worst coached/played games of the year.. Still at a complete loss to explain how badly they played that game.
Packers, IMO, didn't do anything in the off season to improve.
One loss to the Packers had Cousin throwing an idiotic end zone Interception that even rookies don't tend to do. He eats the ball there, or throws it away changes the outcome...
I agree... the loss at home vs. the Packers was maddening.. They played that game with their 3rd/4th string RB and they didn't change up the game plan to make up for that.
I could be persuaded into a loss @ bears.. But they have the talent to beat both teams at Home.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You know these games are always difficult. I would give the Vikings W at home against the Packers and Bears but losses when they play them away.Purple
IMO, those 4 games, for whatever reason, were very poorly played/prepared/coached games.. IMO, they didn't loss due to lack of talent.
Now, their Defense did loss some key players, but also got rid of some "dead weight".. Hopefully Capers can help make them more aggressive.
But I believe the Offense is actually better then last year.. Digg's was becoming a Cancer on the team that needed to be removed. Would have liked them to address the OL more in the off season..
But hopefully the coaching staff learned last year what works and what doesn't with Cousin's and they let Kubiak run the offense 100%.
They lost at the Bears by 2 points and the Bears still have their crappy QB..
The Game at home vs. the Bears was one of the worst coached/played games of the year.. Still at a complete loss to explain how badly they played that game.
Packers, IMO, didn't do anything in the off season to improve.
One loss to the Packers had Cousin throwing an idiotic end zone Interception that even rookies don't tend to do. He eats the ball there, or throws it away changes the outcome...
I agree... the loss at home vs. the Packers was maddening.. They played that game with their 3rd/4th string RB and they didn't change up the game plan to make up for that.
I could be persuaded into a loss @ bears.. But they have the talent to beat both teams at Home.
Last year was embarrassing getting swept by both o those teams. The coaches know it and they have had a year to look at why they lost those games and what they need to fix to win those games.
The Lions should be more competitive this year and I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped a game to them if they are.
Its a trough division, always has been. Most of the Vikings losses were to division foes last year. These teams always play better against each other because of the familiarity.
The Packers definitely had a better plan than the Viking did last year. Their pass rush just ruined anything the Vikings were trying to do.
mozzy84
Footballguy
I like it, I don’t see it, but I like it haha.snogger said:IMO, Colts are still a year or two away.. Rivers is basically a stop gap until they find their next QB..
Texans are not as scary now with Hopkins being gone and the other changes...
Saints are always dangerous.. and the Bucs with Brady are going to be interesting to watch.. He has all the offensive weapons he could ever want, so no excuses..
My Way too early prediction..
Home vs. Packers - W
@Colts - W
Home vs. Titans - W
@Texans - 50/50 but going with - W
@Seahawks - L
Home vs. Falcons - W
@Packers - L
Home vs. Lions - W
@Bears -W
Home vs. Dallas - W
Home vs. Panthers - W
Home vs. Jags - W
@Bucs - L
Home vs. Bears - W
@ Saints - L
@Lions - W
12-4 or 11-5 .. Too much Homer love ...
I just can’t see them going 5-1 in the division. Honestly looking again that schedule looks absolutely brutal. I could see that first month getting swapped to the end of the season too which probably won’t help them. If they get ten wins I will be surprised.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
9th year in a row the Vikings will play Seattle in prime time.
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Has anyone heard if they are working with Harris on a multi-year deal?
I would think that would be a key thing to help get Cook extended (and maybe bring Everson back...).
I would think that would be a key thing to help get Cook extended (and maybe bring Everson back...).
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Vikings safety Anthony Harris to play on franchise tag in 2020
So no cap relief for 2020 cap from Harris.
No idea where they find the money for Cook. I am sure they would love to get Griffen back but they don't have the money. Some articles today saying he is checking out the Eagles.
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