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*** Minnesota Vikings: OFFICIAL


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Cheering for you guys to win the Super Bowl. Good luck Vikes fans.

I've been a Viking fan for 30 years.  With the exception of 1998, I've never had more confidence in this team than I have right now.  The defense is the best I've ever seen from this club.  They have

Congrats Vikings fans, what a great game ? I posted this in another thread and you probably saw it already, but in case you didn’t, this is a really cool angle of the last play   http://dail

47 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

1st round pick is no guarantee the player is going to be good.

I do think their first pick should be a lineman either side of the ball.

Of course that’s true. Regardless, has to be OL. I’d say they may wait for the 2nd but they already threw that one in the trash can chasing DL.

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1 hour ago, BigJim® said:

Of course that’s true. Regardless, has to be OL. I’d say they may wait for the 2nd but they already threw that one in the trash can chasing DL.

Its too bad they wasted the 2nd round pick. Would have been good if they had decided he wouldn't fit the defense before trading for him. I found out pretty quickly after the trade that Ngakoue was not a good run defender and likely not a guy you want to be paying a lot of money to for what should be a pass rush specialist type role in the defense. Just seems like they should have figured that out before trading for him. They watched his tape right?

They have need of a corner back too although that is likely what people do not want to hear. Right now they have pick 14. I would think they take BPA there, It looks like there are a couple highly mocked offensive linemen going in the top 10. Maybe the Vikings get lucky and one of them falls to their pick.

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10 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

They have need of a corner back too although that is likely what people do not want to hear. Right now they have pick 14. I would think they take BPA there, It looks like there are a couple highly mocked offensive linemen going in the top 10. Maybe the Vikings get lucky and one of them falls to their pick.

Yeah, I'm just probably going to be a consistent voice of reason on this. Are there other areas that need to be helped? Of course. I just think it is beyond debate at this point that you're better off fixing that thing that is getting your immobile QB hit 10-14 times a game. What we've seen re: the mediocrity on defense was because they are literally decimated and starting guys who don't belong as NFL starters. The continued mediocrity at OL was a virtually healthy unit. It needs improved personnel. They don't have 5 injured stars returning, unlike the D.

That said, we definitely need DL improved.   

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10 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Yeah, I'm just probably going to be a consistent voice of reason on this. Are there other areas that need to be helped? Of course. I just think it is beyond debate at this point that you're better off fixing that thing that is getting your immobile QB hit 10-14 times a game. What we've seen re: the mediocrity on defense was because they are literally decimated and starting guys who don't belong as NFL starters. The continued mediocrity at OL was a virtually healthy unit. It needs improved personnel. They don't have 5 injured stars returning, unlike the D.

That said, we definitely need DL improved.   

If they lose to the Saints, which they should, which is why maybe they won't, I think their draft position improves a bit. Which improves their odds of getting one of those two linemen.

What Mark Craig said is true but players like Wills are top 10 picks. The Vikings have not been in position to draft that high in awhile.

Jefferson has been so good hard to say that Wills would have been a better pick. The question is if they will have a good option with that pick or not. It doesn't make sense to reach into a lower tier of talent just to fill positional need. Maybe in this case it does but I still think you need to take the best player with those high picks.

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:oldunsure: I think Kubiak is reading this thread..

first play, roll out pass for 15 yards, later that drive a screen and mixing it up well with the run to get a TD.. Next drive, on back to back 2nd and 10's, he runs Sweeps instead of just up the middle and multiple roll outs.

Edited by snogger
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I'm surprised many are surprised with what happened yesterday.. The Vikings were playing 6th string LB's.

Knowing this going into the game Payton, being the smart coach he is, went all out Run to take advantage of it.

I don't think there is a team out there that can stop a good runner with LB's that normally would be playing Special teams and/or on the practice squad. :shrug:

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1 hour ago, snogger said:

I'm surprised many are surprised with what happened yesterday.. The Vikings were playing 6th string LB's.

I wasn’t surprised for the reasons you mentioned. Those who are disappointed probably saw yesterday as meteoric decline vs the prior weeks where we were similarly undermanned (which it was). Probably others who want to think there are promising young guys who may be able to step into Zim’s system. I’m somewhat in that camp... but clearly not the case.

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Ok, I'm bored and week 17 is meaningless...

I will preface this by saying that I am a Kirk Cousins fan, but thinking about the draft, plenty of needs everywhere, but what if one of the QBs falls...Trask, Lance, and I really think Ehlinger will be a good NFL QB (but could maybe be had in the 2nd or 3rd - yes, would have to trade up into the 2nd). Would the Vikings be best served building the lines some more or taking the QB of the future if one is available?

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1 hour ago, FunkyPlutos said:

Ok, I'm bored and week 17 is meaningless...

I will preface this by saying that I am a Kirk Cousins fan, but thinking about the draft, plenty of needs everywhere, but what if one of the QBs falls...Trask, Lance, and I really think Ehlinger will be a good NFL QB (but could maybe be had in the 2nd or 3rd - yes, would have to trade up into the 2nd). Would the Vikings be best served building the lines some more or taking the QB of the future if one is available?

JMHO, the state of this team can't tolerate a 1st round pick standing on a sideline holding a clipboard for 1-2 years. Particularly with no 2nd round pick.

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3 hours ago, FunkyPlutos said:

Ok, I'm bored and week 17 is meaningless...

I will preface this by saying that I am a Kirk Cousins fan, but thinking about the draft, plenty of needs everywhere, but what if one of the QBs falls...Trask, Lance, and I really think Ehlinger will be a good NFL QB (but could maybe be had in the 2nd or 3rd - yes, would have to trade up into the 2nd). Would the Vikings be best served building the lines some more or taking the QB of the future if one is available?

I think they need to keep building the lines.

I just cant take Shamar Stephen being the best defensive tackle they have anymore. They are getting pushed back way too much.

That said I would love to go the route of grooming a new QB to develop behind Cousins. This draft seems to have 6 or more decent ones, so maybe one does fall to them. I do think you have to take a chance if a guy you really like is there. The position so important.

As you say it would be nice to have a 2nd round pick to give them some flexibility there. I do think a good one might drop into round 2 even if 5 go in the 1st round. Or having the 2nd rounder to use on a lineman if a QB they really liked did fall to their pick. It would be easier to manage then. 

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I am torn a little bit because getting a first round QB that could be the future of the franchise on a 5 year (1st rounder) deal would be ideal to help build around what is there already versus the build around the QB that we have. I do think that once his contract is done, that Kirk will have outplayed his contract - everyone see him as overpaid but think he is putting up numbers that would get any other QB a much higher deal. With the salary cap going down, it would probably be best to draft the QB - but they would have to be sure he is going to be a good one and that is where the trouble lies!

 

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2 hours ago, FunkyPlutos said:

I am torn a little bit because getting a first round QB that could be the future of the franchise on a 5 year (1st rounder) deal would be ideal to help build around what is there already versus the build around the QB that we have. I do think that once his contract is done, that Kirk will have outplayed his contract - everyone see him as overpaid but think he is putting up numbers that would get any other QB a much higher deal. With the salary cap going down, it would probably be best to draft the QB - but they would have to be sure he is going to be a good one and that is where the trouble lies!

 

I respect your opinion, but this team needs to stop building outside in. They never get to the 'in' part. The key to having an early round QB work out is putting him behind an above average line. They should not even consider putting a top rookie QB behind the existing line.... not that I think a rookie would even see the field this season. It's like building one castle after the next in a marsh.

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3 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

It's like building one castle after the next in a marsh.

Some day, all of this will be yours.

What, the curtains?

I agree with your sentiment but you don't necessarily need to draft interior linemen with first rounders. What they DO need to do is start drafting some guys with more lead in their pants.

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16 minutes ago, Andy Dufresne said:

I agree with your sentiment but you don't necessarily need to draft interior linemen with first rounders. What they DO need to do is start drafting some guys with more lead in their pants.

Ideally, that should be right. What is up with how bad this personnel dept is scouting OL? No pro bowlers so far this century other than a rookie Kalil? What exactly are they scouting for... kind and gentle souls?

BTW- LOL on the curtains quote. It was exactly the movie scene I was thinking. I've been watching way too much Monty Python lately.

 

 

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21 hours ago, BigJim® said:

I respect your opinion, but this team needs to stop building outside in. They never get to the 'in' part. The key to having an early round QB work out is putting him behind an above average line. They should not even consider putting a top rookie QB behind the existing line.... not that I think a rookie would even see the field this season. It's like building one castle after the next in a marsh.

I agree with you. They need to build the lines and with all the QBs available in this upcoming draft, they may be able to have a high quality lineman fall to them and be "forced" to make the correct decision. 

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On 1/1/2021 at 10:59 AM, BigJim® said:

Ideally, that should be right. What is up with how bad this personnel dept is scouting OL? No pro bowlers so far this century other than a rookie Kalil? What exactly are they scouting for... kind and gentle souls?

BTW- LOL on the curtains quote. It was exactly the movie scene I was thinking. I've been watching way too much Monty Python lately.

But I don't want it. 

Its a fair question in regards to the scouting department. However there was a change on that front when Studwell stepped down in 2014 so you would only be looking at 2015 on for this current scouting department.

Here are the offensive linemen they have drafted since then.

1	2020	2	58	Ezra Cleveland	T	22	2020	2020	0	0	0	0	12	8	Boise St.	College Stats
2	2020	6	203	Blake Brandel	T	23			0	0	0				Oregon St.	College Stats
3	2020	7	253	Kyle Hinton	G	22			0	0	0				Washburn	
4	2019	1	18	Garrett Bradbury	C	24	2019	2020	0	0	2	8	31	31	North Carolina St.	College Stats
5	2019	4	114	Dru Samia	G	22	2019	2020	0	0	0	0	14	4	Oklahoma	College Stats
6	2019	6	193	Oli Udoh	T	22			0	0	0				Elon	
7	2018	2	62	Brian O'Neill	T	22	2018	2020	0	0	3	15	45	41	Pittsburgh	College Stats
8	2018	6	213	Colby Gossett	G	23	2018	2018	0	0	0	1	5	4	Appalachian St.	College Stats
9	2017	3	70	Pat Elflein	C	23	2017	2020	0	0	3	21	49	48	Ohio St.	College Stats
10	2017	5	180	Danny Isidora	G	23	2017	2020	0	0	0	4	25	6	Miami (FL)	College Stats
11	2016	4	121	Willie Beavers	T	22	2016	2016	0	0	0	0	2	0	West. Michigan	College Stats
12	2015	4	110	T.J. Clemmings	T	23	2015	2018	0	0	2	17	41	32	Pittsburgh	College Stats
13	2015	6	185	Tyrus Thompson	T	23			0	0	0				Oklahoma	College Stats
14	2015	7	228	Austin Shepherd	T	23	2015	2015	0	0	0	1	14	0	Alabama	College Stat

Some of these players are still too young to judge like Cleveland and to a certain extent Bradbury who is just completing his 2nd season.

The Beavers and Clemmings picks were disasters. Elflien wasn't good enough, but he was only a 3rd round pick.

I dunno there is a decent amount of draft capital invested here. A 1st two 2nd a 3rd, 3 fourth round picks.

The Vikings clearly are focusing on quickness and athleticism in their linemen. That is what Clemmings had going for him, converted defensive lineman. The scouting department is finding the players they are looking for. The coaches have to develop them.

I get your point though, that if they cant find any diamonds in the rough (they haven't since John Sullivan) then you need to use higher draft picks to make sure you get a player who can actually start.

The Vikings are a really bad team right now. Not sure if they are bad enough to lose this game against the Lions though. It would certainly help their draft position if they lost this game.

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12 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

But I don't want it. 

Its a fair question in regards to the scouting department. However there was a change on that front when Studwell stepped down in 2014 so you would only be looking at 2015 on for this current scouting department.

Here are the offensive linemen they have drafted since then.


1	2020	2	58	Ezra Cleveland	T	22	2020	2020	0	0	0	0	12	8	Boise St.	College Stats
2	2020	6	203	Blake Brandel	T	23			0	0	0				Oregon St.	College Stats
3	2020	7	253	Kyle Hinton	G	22			0	0	0				Washburn	
4	2019	1	18	Garrett Bradbury	C	24	2019	2020	0	0	2	8	31	31	North Carolina St.	College Stats
5	2019	4	114	Dru Samia	G	22	2019	2020	0	0	0	0	14	4	Oklahoma	College Stats
6	2019	6	193	Oli Udoh	T	22			0	0	0				Elon	
7	2018	2	62	Brian O'Neill	T	22	2018	2020	0	0	3	15	45	41	Pittsburgh	College Stats
8	2018	6	213	Colby Gossett	G	23	2018	2018	0	0	0	1	5	4	Appalachian St.	College Stats
9	2017	3	70	Pat Elflein	C	23	2017	2020	0	0	3	21	49	48	Ohio St.	College Stats
10	2017	5	180	Danny Isidora	G	23	2017	2020	0	0	0	4	25	6	Miami (FL)	College Stats
11	2016	4	121	Willie Beavers	T	22	2016	2016	0	0	0	0	2	0	West. Michigan	College Stats
12	2015	4	110	T.J. Clemmings	T	23	2015	2018	0	0	2	17	41	32	Pittsburgh	College Stats
13	2015	6	185	Tyrus Thompson	T	23			0	0	0				Oklahoma	College Stats
14	2015	7	228	Austin Shepherd	T	23	2015	2015	0	0	0	1	14	0	Alabama	College Stat

Some of these players are still too young to judge like Cleveland and to a certain extent Bradbury who is just completing his 2nd season.

The Beavers and Clemmings picks were disasters. Elflien wasn't good enough, but he was only a 3rd round pick.

I dunno there is a decent amount of draft capital invested here. A 1st two 2nd a 3rd, 3 fourth round picks.

The Vikings clearly are focusing on quickness and athleticism in their linemen. That is what Clemmings had going for him, converted defensive lineman. The scouting department is finding the players they are looking for. The coaches have to develop them.

I get your point though, that if they cant find any diamonds in the rough (they haven't since John Sullivan) then you need to use higher draft picks to make sure you get a player who can actually start.

The Vikings are a really bad team right now. Not sure if they are bad enough to lose this game against the Lions though. It would certainly help their draft position if they lost this game.

Wow, this post made me throw up in my mouth. I knew it was bad, but eeeeish.

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Basically plays 14 of 16 games and STILL breaks Moss's team records and the Rookie receiving record.

Take a :bow: Mr. Jefferson

Edited by snogger
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On 1/4/2021 at 2:14 PM, BigJim® said:

Looks like Kubiak is "retiring."

From what I see he taking some time to think about it. Nothings decided yet.  Zimmers comments leave the door open for Kubiak to return if he wants to.

I for one would like some consistency.  Zimmer hasn't had the same OC for longer than a year and a half his whole time coaching the Vikings.

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

From what I see he taking some time to think about it. Nothings decided yet.  Zimmers comments leave the door open for Kubiak to return if he wants to.

I for one would like some consistency.  Zimmer hasn't had the same OC for longer than a year and a half his whole time coaching the Vikings.

Yeah, I'm not calling for Kubiak's head or anything. My impression is he needs to freshen it up, a lot. I've heard Leber, Ron Johnson and Bercich each make astute observations on his plain style of lining guys up and running 1990's Denver plays. Some of the observations make a lot of sense. Get to the line quicker so that Cousins can get a longer presnap view. Use motion to give defenders something else to account for and to help Cousins know what scheme they are in. I'm not saying he needs to become a trend setter or anything, but he needs to step into the 21st century at a minimum.   

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41 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Yeah, I'm not calling for Kubiak's head or anything. My impression is he needs to freshen it up, a lot. I've heard Leber, Ron Johnson and Bercich each make astute observations on his plain style of lining guys up and running 1990's Denver plays. Some of the observations make a lot of sense. Get to the line quicker so that Cousins can get a longer presnap view. Use motion to give defenders something else to account for and to help Cousins know what scheme they are in. I'm not saying he needs to become a trend setter or anything, but he needs to step into the 21st century at a minimum.   

You know as far as scheme goes the Vikings Bears and Packers are all running mostly the same offnse now. The diference is more about who the players are and how they execute it.

The Vikings were doing it first. Now the Bears and Packers are doing it. In the 21st century.

Dont believe the hype of these talking heads who just need something to talk about.

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4 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

You know as far as scheme goes the Vikings Bears and Packers are all running mostly the same offnse now. The diference is more about who the players are and how they execute it.

The Vikings were doing it first. Now the Bears and Packers are doing it. In the 21st century.

Dont believe the hype of these talking heads who just need something to talk about.

Agree to disagree. Especially comparing Nagy's Chicago offense to anything Kubiak does. Nagy is anything but old school. Green Bay moves the pocket with roll outs constantly. 

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1 hour ago, BigJim® said:

Agree to disagree. Especially comparing Nagy's Chicago offense to anything Kubiak does. Nagy is anything but old school. Green Bay moves the pocket with roll outs constantly. 

The fundamental aspects of the scheme are the same. The plays and schemes from the 90s that were successful then are still successful now.

All 3 offenses are using outside zone as a staple of their running game, similar to other good rushing offenses like the 49ers. All the same coaching tree.

They use play action and pattern that to look the same as their running game. This is what Kubiak brought to the offense with Stefandki who is having success with his version of it.

The Packers were not doing this as much before this year and Rodgers a improved QB in part because of it.

The Vikings offense was very good this season and better than it's been before. So there's that too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Read this today from PFF:

Bradbury’s pass-protection has been a borderline liability for Minnesota over the last couple of years. Among 41 centers to play at least 500 snaps in pass-protection in their first two seasons in the NFL, Bradbury ranks dead last in pass-block grade by nearly six grading points (36.3). Since being drafted, he has allowed a league-worst 5.2% pressure rate. 

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Yeah Bradbury gave up some pressures for sure. One in particular I remember Cleveland takes Bradbury out and they both let the defender through clean.

I think Bradbury has shown some good things but he hasn't been a elite performer despite being a 1st round pick. So that is disappointing but he also hasn't played his 3rd seson yet. Which is generally when linemen start playing their best.

The coaching is a huge factor as well though. Andy Reid seems to be able to have a functional offense with Mike Remmers starting at guard. The center that the Saints drafted same year as Bradbury has done better early on in their careers, but the Saints had better offensive linemen around him than Bradbury, and at center especially I think that matters. Bradbury has been playing without good guard support on either side so far.

It did get better with Cleveland in there to the point where Dozier was obviously their worst lineman but before that Dru Samia made Dozier look competent. There is a hierarchy of levels of suck here.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I've been reading a lot about the Vikings needing an Edge rusher with their 1st round pick. If Hunter is healthy, I thought Wonnum played really well last year - no idea why he didn't play more! 

I'm thinking DT is a much higher priority for them than a DE. Am I wrong about this? 

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4 hours ago, FunkyPlutos said:

I've been reading a lot about the Vikings needing an Edge rusher with their 1st round pick. If Hunter is healthy, I thought Wonnum played really well last year - no idea why he didn't play more! 

I'm thinking DT is a much higher priority for them than a DE. Am I wrong about this? 

Probably an equal need as the Vikes should be getting Pierce back next year at DT (he opted out for Covid this year).  That should help

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Looking at mocks and doing a few myself, it seems like (unless someone they really like on either line is available) a trade down in the first to possibly collect a 2nd rounder back would be the best move. Looks like a ton of o-line and d-line depth in the 2nd/3rd round so I would welcome a move down in the first unless there is a stud available at 14. 

Hate to say it but if one of the WRs falls, I wouldn't mind that pick as well because Thielen is getting up there in years and there is no depth at all at the position...

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On 2/17/2021 at 9:05 AM, FunkyPlutos said:

I've been reading a lot about the Vikings needing an Edge rusher with their 1st round pick. If Hunter is healthy, I thought Wonnum played really well last year - no idea why he didn't play more! 

I'm thinking DT is a much higher priority for them than a DE. Am I wrong about this? 

The mock drafters have been mocking edge rusher to the Vikings for about 6 or more seasons in a row now. Because they have not drafted one high for a long time because they had Griffen and Hunter develop into good rushers for them.

Hunter should be back although I have heard he wants a new contract.

Pierce will be back but he is a nose tackle. The Vikings really need an upgrade to Shamar Stephen who SUCKS I dont care what Zimmer says about him. The Vikings havent drafted a defensive lineman early since Sharif Floyd.

I think you are absolutely right that DT should be a priority over Edge. I like what Wonnum showed his first season and I expect him to get better.

The mockers do not understand what the Vikings have been able to do with Andre Patterson and defensive linemen thus they always see edge rusher as being a need. Without Griffen it is more of a need than it has been the last 5 or so years of them mocking it this way.

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