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Dynasty & Redraft: QB Patrick ‘Showtime’ Mahomes II, Chiefs


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Possible to post your full league rules / bylaws? 

He is a wonderful, outstanding resource of a person. ?

Calling it is one thing, bumping 4 old posts to say I told you so is obnoxious. But congrats. 

38 minutes ago, Gottabesweet said:

Rappaport said on NFLN that it’s 3 weeks out unless the MRI shows ligament damage.  So best case 3 weeks. Worst case season. Mahomes tweeted he’s ok (take it for a grain of salt) but I’m leaning towards him being braced up and playing in a month. 

With the Chiefs bye Week 12, I think best case is Week 13.

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1 hour ago, Tool said:

I dunno. Guy had a pretty serious ankle injury. I realize injury was to his his knee and maybe it was a freak injury but when someone has one injury they can move differently than they normally would.

he got hurt becase. denver dlinemans knee slammed into his knee cap....nothing to do with the ankle....complete fluke

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40 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

he got hurt becase. denver dlinemans knee slammed into his knee cap....nothing to do with the ankle....complete fluke

Sigh... His knee was where it was based on how he was running, on a bad ankle he couldn't push off on properly in a play predicated on pushing through the pile. 

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8 minutes ago, mbuehner said:

Sigh... His knee was where it was based on how he was running, on a bad ankle he couldn't push off on properly in a play predicated on pushing through the pile. 

Then he shouldn’t have been playing at all if his ankle was so jacked up that he was at that high of a risk of injuring something else due to compensating due to the injury.

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56 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
2 hours ago, Tool said:

I dunno. Guy had a pretty serious ankle injury. I realize injury was to his his knee and maybe it was a freak injury but when someone has one injury they can move differently than they normally would.

he got hurt becase. denver dlinemans knee slammed into his knee cap....nothing to do with the ankle....complete fluke

Right on.

Consider how many times throughout the league that a tailback slams into a stacked line. Then consider how often you hear about tailbacks suffering from a dislocated kneecap.

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1 hour ago, MAC_32 said:

Best case is someone convinces him to have the surgery now and not risk serious injury between whenever he returns and January.

Unfortunately, I agree with this take.  He is too young and too good to risk serious damage.  Matt Moore is a capable, veteran backup.

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11 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

Then he shouldn’t have been playing at all if his ankle was so jacked up that he was at that high of a risk of injuring something else due to compensating due to the injury.

Well there you go. He clearly was hobbled. They called a running play in a situation that wasnt necessary. If your tailback has a bum elbow you dont call a half back pass in the second quarter and have him throw the ball. Its just unnecessary and the risk isnt worth the reward. 

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10 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

The defense played fantastic football tonight. They shut down the run & had 9 or 10 sacks. 

Okay, they had one good night, against a terrible o-line.  Do you think the defense is more likely to keep playing like that or more likely to play like it did the first six weeks? 

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6 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Okay, they had one good night, against a terrible o-line.  Do you think the defense is more likely to keep playing like that or more likely to play like it did the first six weeks? 

Maybe they got tired of being called trash. 

i lost my crystal ball, so I don’t know. What I do know is that they have some players & those players appear to have some pride.

they still committed two brain dead penalties on 3rd downs on the 1st drive which led to Denver’s lone score, but after that they played lights out.

most importantly they shut down Denver’s run game, which was their Achilles heel. 

Maybe it’ll start a trend. Who knows. But you can’t call them trash after a game like that. 

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From reading through this topic I’m amazed by all the talk of “he’ll likely shut it down and opt for the surgery”.

Apparently y’all have never seen a single interview with Mahomes. 

he strikes me as more the Ronnie Lott “cut it off coach, I’m going back in the game!” type of player than the “show me the Benjamins, imma kick back and watch my team play” type of guy. 

just based on playing taped through a high ankle sprain for 2+ weeks should tell you that. 

dude is a gamer. If he can brace up & play, I guarantee you he’s gonna do that. I think it’s ridiculous to assume otherwise given what we’ve seen from Mahomes to date.  Kid is a football player. 

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7 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

From reading through this topic I’m amazed by all the talk of “he’ll likely shut it down and opt for the surgery”.

Apparently y’all have never seen a single interview with Mahomes. 

he strikes me as more the Ronnie Lott “cut it off coach, I’m going back in the game!” type of player than the “show me the Benjamins, imma kick back and watch my team play” type of guy. 

just based on playing taped through a high ankle sprain for 2+ weeks should tell you that. 

dude is a gamer. If he can brace up & play, I guarantee you he’s gonna do that. I think it’s ridiculous to assume otherwise given what we’ve seen from Mahomes to date.  Kid is a football player. 

thats not really his call....can he wear a brace an get off season surgery? sure....will the team jeopardize him? the chance of him getting reinjured and doing more damage is really high.....

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14 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

From reading through this topic I’m amazed by all the talk of “he’ll likely shut it down and opt for the surgery”.

Apparently y’all have never seen a single interview with Mahomes. 

he strikes me as more the Ronnie Lott “cut it off coach, I’m going back in the game!” type of player than the “show me the Benjamins, imma kick back and watch my team play” type of guy. 

just based on playing taped through a high ankle sprain for 2+ weeks should tell you that. 

dude is a gamer. If he can brace up & play, I guarantee you he’s gonna do that. I think it’s ridiculous to assume otherwise given what we’ve seen from Mahomes to date.  Kid is a football player. 

Definitely don’t want to see another RGIII scenario. 

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6 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

thats not really his call....can he wear a brace an get off season surgery? sure....will the team jeopardize him? the chance of him getting reinjured and doing more damage is really high.....

Most folks in here have said “he should opt to get the surgery & not risk the paycheck” (paraphrasing)

and yeah - it probably is his call if it’s “play thorough it with a brace or get surgery.” as the options. 

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1 hour ago, mbuehner said:

Well there you go. He clearly was hobbled. They called a running play in a situation that wasnt necessary. If your tailback has a bum elbow you dont call a half back pass in the second quarter and have him throw the ball. Its just unnecessary and the risk isnt worth the reward. 

 Brady had 4 or 5 sneaks last week (2 for TDs) - he’s like 1100 years old. 

rhat was a fluke injury. In several decades of watching football I can’t recall ever seeing a player get hurt on a sneak. 

and they got the 1st down - which sustains the drive & leads to scores, which is the entire premise of the sport of football, so I think the risk was worth the reward.

easy to use hindsight to say it was an unnecessary risk, but if he converts & that doesn’t happen no one calls it a bad play call. No one. Not one person would say “I can’t believe they called that sneak!” - they’d just move on to the next play as though something totally normal happened. 

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10 minutes ago, wilked said:

quick question - why is this hot sauce guy so invested here?  He Mahomes brother?

 I’m interested because I have Mahomes in Dynasty & Hill in redraft.

and I’d be interested regardless because I’m a FF fantastic.

any other questions? 

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37 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

You’re not Mahomes. If he can play I’ll be he’s gonna play. 

That is generally how athletes are wired. They want someone to tell them that they can play. Doesn't mean it's in their best interests though.

The if-then tree has a lot of branches on this one, but if he does not have ligament damage and is cleared week 13 and does not change how he plays then he will be at increased risk of a more significant injury. In that scenario he will probably change the way he plays, but it isn't off the table. And even an immobile 70...80% Mahomes is still at increased risk of injury relative to the previous version. It's not going to be stable again until after surgery, that's why it's necessary.

I hope there are enough rationale voices in his inner circle to say the potential reward is not worth the massive risk. He'll be just 24 years old opening day next year. He has a long, prosperous career in front of him if he just avoids serious injury.

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Just now, Cobbler1 said:

Anyone close to Mahomes would want him to have the surgery vs playing on an unstable knee.

If they say he can play through it, it’s not unstable. 

its takes like these that seem premature.

I am not wanting Mahomes to risk further injury so my magical football team can do well.

i am just saying if he’s medically cleared to play & then have off-season surgery, I think he’ll do that because he’s a gamer. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I won’t. 

Yes you’ve made that clear. Which is fine I respect that you put your opinions out there regardless of whether or not I agree with them and often times I do agree. Let’s see what happens brother.

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13 minutes ago, wilked said:

quick question - why is this hot sauce guy so invested here?  He Mahomes brother?

He owns him in fantasy leagues, so he is only concerned about what Mahomes does for him between now and the end of this season.

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

That is generally how athletes are wired. They want someone to tell them that they can play. Doesn't mean it's in their best interests though.

I like to think the Chiefs have top medical people who will help him make that determination. 

1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

The if-then tree has a lot of branches on this one, but if he does not have ligament damage and is cleared week 13 and does not change how he plays then he will be at increased risk of a more significant injury. In that scenario he will probably change the way he plays, but it isn't off the table. And even an immobile 70...80% Mahomes is still at increased risk of injury relative to the previous version. It's not going to be stable again until after surgery, that's why it's necessary.

I hope there are enough rationale voices in his inner circle to say the potential reward is not worth the massive risk. He'll be just 24 years old opening day next year. He has a long, prosperous career in front of him if he just avoids serious injury.

You’re saying IF that’s the case. 

what if it’s a low risk of further injury? Shut it down regardless because any risk is unacceptable? 

as you said, many branches to the if-then. One of those branches is that it’s not a huge risk of further damage.

should he not play then? 

everyone here seems to be dwelling on worst case scenarios (as usual) 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I like to think the Chiefs have top medical people who will help him make that determination. 

You’re saying IF that’s the case. 

what if it’s a low risk of further injury? Shut it down regardless because any risk is unacceptable? 

as you said, many branches to the if-then. One of those branches is that it’s not a huge risk of further damage.

should he not play then? 

everyone here seems to be dwelling on worst case scenarios (as usual) 

Such a branch does not exist

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

If they say he can play through it, it’s not unstable. 

its takes like these that seem premature.

I am not wanting Mahomes to risk further injury so my magical football team can do well.

i am just saying if he’s medically cleared to play & then have off-season surgery, I think he’ll do that because he’s a gamer. 

Everything I’ve read has said that if there’s a tear he can rest and play through it with a brace at the increased risk of reinjuring and possibly causing serious long term injury. I guess we could argue the semantics of the word “unstable” but it is undoubtedly less stable.

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3 minutes ago, Cobbler1 said:

Yes you’ve made that clear. Which is fine I respect that you put your opinions out there regardless of whether or not I agree with them and often times I do agree. Let’s see what happens brother.

I’m not making a determination one way or the other because no one’s seen an update. 

and I’m not saying what I want to happen. 

I’m speculating on what might happen if the MRI comes back relatively clean. many athletes have opted to play through minor things & wait for surgery. in some corner cases that works out to be a terrible decision. 

in many cases it works out ok. but we don’t know what his options are, so it seems premature for everyone to call for Mahomes to shut it down. 

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

That’s a branch that says he can possibly play through it. 

so that branch does exist. 

but like everyone else, I wait with baited breath to see what his situation is. 

Oof.

Yes, he can play through it...at increased risk of serious injury. Subluxation is what happened to Zach Miller, who almost lost his leg and his range of potential outcomes for that injury included death. 

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1 minute ago, Cobbler1 said:

Everything I’ve read has said that if there’s a tear he can rest and play through it with a brace at the increased risk of reinjuring and possibly causing serious long term injury. I guess we could argue the semantics of the word “unstable” but it is undoubtedly less stable.

Oh for sure. Any ligament damage is going to effect the overall stability of the knee. 

And sure - a bad low hit will undoubtedly result in further damage.

but then again, one bad low hit to a healthy knee could result in damage as well. 

I don’t know what’s gonna happen. I’m of course hopeful he plays because 1. The NFL is more fun with him playing, 2. That means it’s the most minor form of the injury.

as a dynasty shareholder I also kind of hope he gets the surgery & shuts it down. 

i’m not arguing what I want to happen - I’m just saying what I think he might do. Because football players are wired like that. 

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

Oof.

Yes, he can play through it...at increased risk of serious injury. Subluxation is what happened to Zach Miller, who almost lost his leg and his range of potential outcomes for that injury included death. 

Dramatic much?

:rolleyes:

football is a violent sport. Every player is at risk Of serious injury on every play. 

if he’s medically cleared to play through it, that would seem to indicate that his risk of death is not that high. 

lets see what the update looks like later & then y’all can talk about death & dismemberment.  

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14 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

He owns him in fantasy leagues, so he is only concerned about what Mahomes does for him between now and the end of this season.

No, the only league I have him is dynasty. 

so I hope he shuts it down and gets surgery if he needs it because he’s more valuable to me over the long run.

as I’ve said several times: this isn’t about what I want. It’s what i speculate what might happen because football players want to play football. 

see that quote up there? That’s you being 100% wrong, projecting something stupid that I never said. 

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24 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Tyreek Hill (and maybe Mahomes) owner?

Tyreek in one redraft.

mahomes in dynasty. If he needs surgery, I hope he gets it. Long terms health matters to me.

again - if y’all read the words I type instead of the mischaracterizations others have typed misrepresenting my words, you’d see what I’m saying.

 

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Just now, tricky92 said:

I don’t think some of you nerds understand how much these guys love playing football. If he’s medically cleared to play, he’s going to play regardless of whatever risk your analytics models are telling you. 

That’s what I’m saying.

thank you. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Dramatic much?

:rolleyes:

football is a violent sport. Every player is at risk Of serious injury on every play. 

if he’s medically cleared to play through it, that would seem to indicate that his risk of death is not that high. 

lets see what the update looks like later & then y’all can talk about death & dismemberment.  

He will be 100% week 1 2020 if he gets the surgery now.

He will not be 100% anytime in 2019, no matter what we find out today.

If he is given option 2 and chooses to play then his risk of not being 100% week 1 2020 increases. Nobody can quantify a number. But that article I linked provides some context about what those risks are. There wasn't anything dramatic about what I said about that range of potential outcomes either. I'm trying to write with facts in mind. For whatever reason you're not.

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5 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Yes, he can play through it...at increased risk of serious injury. Subluxation is what happened to Zach Miller, who almost lost his leg and his range of potential outcomes for that injury included death

The range of potential outcomes walking down a flight of stairs is death also, right?

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

He will be 100% week 1 2020 if he gets the surgery now.

He will not be 100% anytime in 2019, no matter what we find out today.

If he is given option 2 and chooses to play then his risk of not being 100% week 1 2020 increases. Nobody can quantify a number. But that article I linked provides some context about what those risks are. There wasn't anything dramatic about what I said about that range of potential outcomes either. I'm trying to write with facts in mind. For whatever reason you're not.

I’m also about facts.

and the fact is that we do not know what his options are right now because there’s been no update.

thats the only fact we have. That we don’t have the facts.

but please do continue discussing the level of risk for a player we don’t have a prognosis for. 

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1 minute ago, TheWinz said:

The range of potential outcomes walking down a flight of stairs is death also, right?

Hit by a bus. 
 

electric toothbrushes can short out & electrocute you too I believe. 

so many ways to die. We are but all one bad step from shedding this fragile mortal coil. 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’m also about facts.

and the fact is that we do not know what his options are right now because there’s been no update.

thats the only fact we have. That we don’t have the facts.

but please do continue discussing the level of risk for a player we don’t have a prognosis for. 

The best case is described in the article. Your refusal to accept it does not change that. It just makes you wrong.

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Just now, MAC_32 said:

The best case is described in the article. Your refusal to accept it does not change that. It just makes you wrong.

I haven’t refused to accept anything.

how many times do I have to say it? If he needs surgery, I hope he gets it. Because I have him on my dynasty team and want long-term health. 

but if he’s cleared to play with a brace, that’s what i think he will do because he’s a football player and football players want to play football, even at risk of greater injruy
 

that’s me; speculating on what I think Mahomes will choose if he’s given that choice in that “best case scenario”. 

there’s no right or wrong there. It’s a speculation. If he chooses one way or the other given one outcome or the other, we’ll know if my speculation was right or wrong. And I’m ok if it’s either. 

is reading comprehension the problem for you here? 

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1 minute ago, houndirish said:

Just a shame to see this kid get shelved for a few weeks (best case).  Mahomes is one of those guys that's just enjoyable to watch and easy to root for.  Hopefully he avoided a major structural injury and can get back out there slinging it soon.

 

 

Absolutely agree. The NFL is more fun with Mahomes playing in it.

that’s me, selfishly hoping he can play this year. 

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