The Frankman
Footballguy
Chris Carson had dispelled the 50/50 timeshare idea in the opener. I wouldn't be surprised if when Penny is healthy we are right back to it...
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RB Chris Carson, SEA - 10.7.21 - Neck Issue (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Borden
- Start date
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
The fumble was a perfect storm of misfortune: a wet ball and a perfectly placed punch from behind after Carson had busted a long run. Idk what his fumbles from last week entailed.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Funnily enough, his fumble last week entailed a perfectly placed punch as well.
Sometimes that perfectly timed punch at that weird moment when a back is falling or off-balance, on an exact spot that makes it squirt free, is completely unavoidable.
Sometimes it is still preventable with good ball security.
That it's happened twice in a row, back-to-back-weeks, seems to make it more of the latter, and a problem.
Super King
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
3.01 always seemed a little high to take him though in fairness. What WR did you guys take at 2.12?
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Sucks. Last week he was originally charged with 2 fumbles but never had the exchange on the second one. Felt better that Pete put him back in to close out the game. This week was his chance at full redemption and he went the other way. No excuses - can't let the ball get punched out. The short yardage chance he had zero room so I don't hold that against him but still. He was absent in the second half. Obviously in the dog house and Penny/Prosise will get a lot more work. Or it becomes the Russell show and they start chucking it 40 times. Likely not a startable RB2 for the foreseeable future.
Super King
Footballguy
Not with Arizona on tap. He's still a top-15 RB in my opinion, as long as Penny is out. Probably top-20 even if he isn't.
That said, these fumbles are concerning, but Seattle is 2-1, and they know what Carson is capable of. Its entirely possible this is a buy low moment.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
seahawk 17
Footballguy
Carson is going to be fine. A buy low for sure.
Tau837
Footballguy
This is what should happen, but it goes against Carroll's fundamental philosophy, so I very seriously doubt it will.
Mr. Landry
Footballguy
It's a ten team league. I, actually, got him at 4.10. Took OBJ at 2.10. And Kittle at 3.01
Deamon
Footballguy
Can't go wrong with that start. Kittle at pick 21 is quite early though, but Carson at 40 is solid.... was solid.It's a ten team league. I, actually, got him at 4.10. Took OBJ at 2.10. And Kittle at 3.01
Mario Wario
Footballguy
I sure hope so! It has been rough watching him fumble the ball each week, knowing he could have put Penny away for good now minus getting hurt.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
We'll see. I think he proved himself last year, but his fumbles this year have led to points for the opposing team, and arguable could say cost them a game this past weekend.
I'd love to believe the team knows what they have in Carson and will go back to him being the featured back, but they did invest a high draft pick in Penny, and he'll be given the shot when healthy to prove himself.
For Carson owners, best to hope for is that it is a true RBBC, and he outshines Penny like he did last year, WITHOUT FUMBLING THE BALL AGAIN, to regain top dog status.
I don't even want to think about worst case scenario as I need Carson badly.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
He's fine until his next fumble. Sort of like Alex Collins who was the messiah at this time in Baltimore last year. Saying that as a Carson owner..
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The dreaded vote of confidence 
leftcoastheel
Footballguy
Good comp. 'Sept I avoided Alex Collins and bought into Carson. Three fumbles in three games, jesus. I mean he shouldn't be on the field with that kind of crap.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Different coach and situation but in 2003 Tiki Barber fumbled in the first 3 games and 4 of the first 5, then 5 fumbles weeks 10-15. He kept his job. Just sayin.
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
We should be this lucky with Carson.The Man With No Name said:
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Before Collins was the messiah in Baltimore, he fumbled his way out of Seattle.Judge Smails said:
The point being I guess that Seattle\Carroll doesn't like fumblers. Not Belichick level of fumble hate, but Collins looked pretty similar to Carson in terms of running talent and they moved on pretty fast. Collins may have off the field or classroom issues that contributed to that too I suppose.
Good recollection. Of course Collins never got the opportunity in Seattle that Carson has -- 30 carries vs 300+.
biju
Footballguy
Collins also couldn't break tackles and looked extremely hesitant in Seattle. He completely transformed when he went to Baltimore.
Two of Carson's fumbles were on amazing punch-outs although he didn't get credited for a fourth fumble that he should have been charged with.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
I'm coming off the ledge a bit, looking at the team, they need him. He was a 1000 yard rusher last year, and he still looks like the best RB option they have
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Agree, but this depends on Penny's progression.
Carson was clearly the better back last year, but Penny looked explosive in preseason and solid with the carries he was getting in-season this year until he got dinged.
Agree that Carson is still the most proven back, and hoping to high heaven he gets this under control ASAP. It looks like he has a week to prove it -- Carroll (if we trust what he says) signaled that Penny may start practicing late week but may not be ready in time for WK .
If I am a betting man, I'd say Carson gets the start, and may cede a little more than he has in the past to Prosise, but if Carson can keep a handle on the ball and looks good (ARI were looking fairly solid against the run but CMC tore them a new one last week), it may help solidify the role Carson has had all this time.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
shadyridr
Footballguy
Wasn't it the opposite? Carson looked amazing in the preseason and Penny looked horrible.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
Tiki was great in every other aspect. Carson is averaging 3.5 ypc. I love it when an udfa or 7th round pick does well. But their time in the spotlight is usually short lived.The Man With No Name said:
zamboni
Footballguy
3.5 this year, but he averaged 4.7 for all last year on a robust 247 carries. That productivity last year is undoubtedly part of the reason he's got a reasonably long leash with Carroll.
My panic meter is at about an 8 and will be a 10 if he doesn't light up the Cardinals D (Hopefully Penny won't be available). Penny was a first round draft pick so I assume they will make make him the starter. I went back and watched all three fumbles and thought the first one was the worst by far. The second was mostly Carson's fault but the O Line allowed immediate penetration and did a bad job blocking. The 3rd as I mentioned above probably would have been fumbled by most RBs if they were hit the same way.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Rawls was another one in that vein who fell as quickly as he rose to prominence.
I missed the sell window on Rawls. Carson's may be closing soon too.
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Don Hutson
Footballguy
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kittenmittens
Footballguy
YPC just doesn't provide enough context to be a useful barometer of how a player is doing - especially if that player doesn't get regular 3rd down work or he only gets 3rd down work.
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Don Hutson
Footballguy
kittenmittens
Footballguy
That's much better context. It still doesn't include game situation, offensive line quality, defense quality, etc.
I hate YPC, but I like YPC on first and 10 a lot more even though I still don't like that.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
I was wrong. He is averaging 3.5 ypc on 1st and 10. He is averaging 3.2 ypc when it is 10 yards or more to go.
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Don Hutson
Footballguy
I think Penny looked good last year, this preseason, and this season. He did look a little fat last year. He has a rare combination of power and an instinct that gives him the ability to break a long one. I wish he was used more as a receiver but having Wilson as quarterback probably limits any Seattle running back in the passing game. Carson clearly plays with a lot of heart. But heart usually isn't enough for a 7th round pick with less natural talent to hold off a 1st round pick with more natural talent.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Agree with @Don Hutson -- guy had a 4.9 YPC last year, and has a 5 YPC this year -- he specifically looked leaner and more explosive in preseason than he did last year, compared to Carson who looked great in both run and pass phases of the game.
This year, Penny looked like he came through the line with a little more burst, and had a really solid game against PIT before getting dinged - 10 carries for 62 and a TD (compared to Carson's 15/60/0) -- some of those carries might have been due to Carson's fumble, but no question Penny was being as effective on the ground.
One advantage Carson has is that he seems to do more in the passing game -- this might just be that he gets more opportunity to do it than Penny has so far, but he's good in space as well.
Bottom line is that I'm still concerned even if Carson holds on to the ball against ARI. We won't know how this might shake out (the team's commitment to use Penny more as a higher round investment, any lingering impact from Carson's fumbles even if he does hold on to the ball v ARI, etc.) until a few weeks down the line.
Hopefully it's just my paranoia -- if Carson can shred the Cards like CMC did, it will go a long way to easing my mind (and I'm sure Carroll's).
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The Man With No Name
Footballguy
