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WR John Ross, NYG


Faust

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12 hours ago, steelers1080 said:

What if Arizona took Mahomes at 13, then traded back into the 1st for Ross?  Give up picks 45 and 77 to jump back in and grab a very talented player who's sliding.

That would give them the giant arm to match with the blazing speed.  

Maybe flip the scenario there. I think with that 40 time, Ross is going top 15. Unless teams got something bad from the doctor's reports,  I just don't see that kind of speed left waiting very long. 

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Quick thought on Torrey Smith:

I will throw out the 49ers time because that whole team was a mess. Torrey has averaged 53 receptions, 898 yards and 7.5 TDs, 17 yards per catch, 7.1 receptions per TD. Doing that from ages 22-25 is impressive. He's not Julio, he seems one dimensional, the end result compared favorable to Desean Jackson: 57 receptions, 1021 yards, 5.25 TDS, 18 yards per catch, 10.9 receptions per TD. 

At 28, there is no reason to think Torrey can't deliver similar numbers if Wentz proves capable. AT 28, Desean put up 56/1169/ 6 with a mix of RG3, Cousins and Colt McCoy at QB. We all want our 1st round picks to be AJ Green, but sometimes we need to realize that a Desean Jackson is a a successful pick. If John Ross averages what Smith did his first 4 years, that would be a positive outcome. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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Are there previous cases of a player being drafted in the first round who had microfracture surgery? I'd never dream of spending a first round pick on a player with a ticking time bomb in his knee and that's for fantasy where I don't have to care about the financial risk or being fired if it backfires - in real life, I imagine GMs would be even more conservative. So for me it's kind of baffling to see him mocked so high when it's doubtful if he can even play out his rookie contract. I thought by now everyone should've gotten the news, but apparently the draftniks are still high on him.

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9 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

Ertz is average, the rbs are awful, Jeffery is a question mark, and Mathews sucks in an offence that is very pass happy. Is this supposed to be a negative?

So just to recap:

- Ertz is the ~#16 TE in the NFL

- The rb's are awful.... AT CATCHING THE BALL. You really don't think PHI have any RB's that can eat up targets in the passing game? Huh.

- Jeffery is a question mark. I assume this is due to health? So PHI should invest an early pick in John Ross because they can't afford to depend on a WR with health concerns. Got it.

- Mathews "sucks". And I presume you agree with the crowd that thinks Torrey Smith "sucks" as well? Let's just assume they all suck.

Well, no wonder PHI should draft Ross. It sounds like the Eagles offense(if not the entire city of Philadelphia) is doomed. But you do realize this offense with no good players and without Jeffery/Smith was the #16 scoring offense in the league last year.... right? That's pretty good when you consider there was only one skill player that was even average and everyone else either "sucked" or was "awful".

 

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55 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Kelce had microfracture surgery before his rookie year, you don't see people holding it against him now. It's not a death sentence for everyone, obviously.

That is an excellent example. If John Ross is available in the third round of the draft I completely agree that the Eagles should draft him even if it's not their area of biggest need.

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1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

So just to recap:

- Ertz is the ~#16 TE in the NFL

- The rb's are awful.... AT CATCHING THE BALL. You really don't think PHI have any RB's that can eat up targets in the passing game? Huh.

- Jeffery is a question mark. I assume this is due to health? So PHI should invest an early pick in John Ross because they can't afford to depend on a WR with health concerns. Got it.

- Mathews "sucks". And I presume you agree with the crowd that thinks Torrey Smith "sucks" as well? Let's just assume they all suck.

Well, no wonder PHI should draft Ross. It sounds like the Eagles offense(if not the entire city of Philadelphia) is doomed. But you do realize this offense with no good players and without Jeffery/Smith was the #16 scoring offense in the league last year.... right? That's pretty good when you consider there was only one skill player that was even average and everyone else either "sucked" or was "awful".

 

You realize R. Matthew's might not return and Sproles has 1 year left. They shopped J. Matthews. Jeffery was suspended and injured more often than not which is why he's on a one year deal. And yeah Ertz is very average. Most of his numbers came because the wrs are brutal. 

Sounds like you haven't watched in 2 years.

Edited by voiceofunreason
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10 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Let's pretend it is not Philly who drafts him...

How much of his initial success will be tied to his QBs ability to throw deep?

about the same as will fuller's

 

but really though, if he ends up somewhere like Det, TB, Bal, maybe Was, I think these are ideal spots for him

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23 hours ago, Borden said:

Agreed. Yeah it wasn't meant to come across as me saying "this was a stupid post". Sorry @steelers1080 if it came across that way. Building off of his post with another option and my opinion of Mahomes. 

No, I 100% agree that 13 is too early for when he should be taken. I think the most likely scenario is that he goes in the mid 20s to the Texans or Chiefs. And he probably should go much later. Air-Raid QBs don't translate well to the NFL.

Ross' best landing spots are probably Arizona, Baltimore, or Tampa, not for fantasy but for his career.  They all like throwing the ball deep a ton, so defenses would have to be wary of that, but Ross has the skill to run a wide range of routes so he could gash defenses for medium length routes with regularity.  Tampa may seem like an odd choice, but I don't see Desean playing there for many years and Ross would be an amazing WR3 and then a very solid compliment to Evans.

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6 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Kelce had microfracture surgery before his rookie year, you don't see people holding it against him now. It's not a death sentence for everyone, obviously.

Didn't know that, thanks. He still only went in the third round though. 

5 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

That is an excellent example. If John Ross is available in the third round of the draft I completely agree that the Eagles should draft him even if it's not their area of biggest need.

Yeah, late second-early third is where I'd be okay with rolling the dice on his knee. 

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Teams have intimate knowledge of his knees now. Either they're good with it or he'll fall to a place where the risk is tolerable. Either way at least one NFL team's evaluation of his injuries will be priced into his draft pedigree.

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Washington WR John Ross' agent, Brad Cicala, released a statement detailing his client's injury history.

Cicala released his statement after NFL Network's Mike Mayock reported on Friday that several teams were scrubbing Ross from their draft boards due to concerns over his health and durability. Said Cicala in the statement, "Despite recent reports, John Ross III has never sustained 2 ACL injury’s nor has he had 2 ACL surgeries. In January of 2015 he endured surgery on his right lateral meniscus and in April of 2015 he had surgery on his left ACL." He went on to say that Ross is ahead of schedule in his recovery from the shoulder surgery which he underwent following the Combine and will be healthy for training camps. Cicala also included this rather pertinent note: "I have confirmed with numerous NFL teams that John’s recent medical rechecks have come back positive." Ross is a top-20 possibility come Day 1 of the draft on Thursday.
 
 

 

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On 4/20/2017 at 8:11 AM, steelers1080 said:

No, I 100% agree that 13 is too early for when he should be taken. I think the most likely scenario is that he goes in the mid 20s to the Texans or Chiefs. And he probably should go much later. Air-Raid QBs don't translate well to the NFL.

Ross' best landing spots are probably Arizona, Baltimore, or Tampa, not for fantasy but for his career.  They all like throwing the ball deep a ton, so defenses would have to be wary of that, but Ross has the skill to run a wide range of routes so he could gash defenses for medium length routes with regularity.  Tampa may seem like an odd choice, but I don't see Desean playing there for many years and Ross would be an amazing WR3 and then a very solid compliment to Evans.

Tampa would be very interesting, where he could learn from the WR he is most often compared to. Along those same lines, I wonder if Washington might be a potential landing spot. they signed Pryor, but only to a 1 year deal, and Crowder is potentially just a slot guy. Reed and Doctson are both injury question marks short and long term, and they might want to have as much talent as possible at WR, in order to entice a QB to sign there long term.

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Washington's John Ross garnered 6-of-16 first-place votes from NFL scouts polled on this year's top wide receiver prospect.

He got more first-place votes than Western Michigan's Corey Davis (5 1/2) and Clemson's Mike Williams (4 1/2), although Davis emerged as the No. 1 "points" getter in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel's poll, which used scouts' rankings and not just first-place votes. The points system placed East Carolina's Zay Jones at a distant fourth in this year's wideout class, and USC's JuJu Smith-Schuster at fifth. Eastern Washington's Cooper Kupp finished sixth, Ohio State's Curtis Samuel seventh, and Texas A&M's Josh Reynolds came in eighth. "It's the worst wide receiver class I've seen in a long time," said one NFC executive.

 

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Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline reports that Washington WR John Ross is "in the conversation" for the Bengals at No. 9.

Pauline additionally reports that the Bengals do not have qualms about Ross' rather extensive injury history. No. 9 is about as high as we have heard for the Washington speedster. Pauline, himself, does not see Ross off the board until No. 21 (to the Lions) in a four-round mock draft released last week.
 
 
Source: Draft Analyst 
Apr 24 - 1:30 PM

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On 4/19/2017 at 9:02 AM, steelers1080 said:

I've seen mocks with him in the top 13 a couple times now. I think it's a mistake, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.
The guy passed for 730 yards in 1 game. Some GM is going to lose his #### over that.

On 88 throws. Jeez 

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On 4/23/2017 at 4:12 PM, Zyphros said:

I want names for those execs cause that's just ridiculous in my mind.  I'm down on Ross compared to everyone else though.  

Just look at that 40 time. The way Ross can stress a defense vertically has the potential to be Randy Moss like. 

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2017 NFL Draft Live Analysis: Fantasy Football Values Round 1

Excerpt:

Quote

Cincinnati Bengals: John Ross, WR – Ross has speed, and then some, and then a bit more. Ross has some concerns with injuries and size, but he can fly. It’s that speed that helps him separate and overcome more powerful corners. Ross is also a terrific ball tracker, which helps that big-play ability. This isn’t the best landing spot for Fantasy Football purposes though, as A.J. Green gobbles up this offense’s targets. Ross is more intriguing for DFS and those with a solid receiver core looking for that boom/bust, DeSean Jackson-like weekly production. Ross is a WR4, who can finish higher with end-year numbers but weekly inconsistency.

 

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On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 5:02 PM, Ilov80s said:

Just look at that 40 time. The way Ross can stress a defense vertically has the potential to be Randy Moss like. 

It's great to stretch the D if the QB can get him the ball. Throwing it up for AJ Green is a lot easier than throwing it 20-40+ yards down field to a 5'-10 WR.

What is Dalton's history with smallish WRs. He had Hawkins for a short time and Hawkins is no John Ross but the best he could muster over 3 years is a long of 59 yards. Basically I would be concerned with Dalton being able to get the ball to the super fast Ross. Not the worst landing spot for Ross but certainly not the best.

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Bengals selected Washington WR John Ross with the No. 9 overall pick in the 2017 NFL draft.

Ross (5’10/188) was an injury-riddled part-time player at Washington until he broke out as a redshirt junior for an 81-1,150-17 (14.2 YPR) stat line. Ross became a household name by breaking Chris Johnson’s forty-yard dash record with a 4.22 in Indy. Ross reached 400 yards in just one college season and showed poor durability, enduring a right meniscus tear followed by microfracture surgery, a torn left ACL and meniscus, and a torn shoulder labrum from which Ross is now recovering. Still, Ross possesses a dynamic skill set and sure hands, dropping just 6-of-106 catchable targets over his final two seasons. An advanced route runner, Ross offers Brandin Cooks-level upside if he can beat the injury bug. He'll likely fill a low-volume, lid-lifter role in Cincinnati across from target monsters A.J. Green and Tyler Eifert. While he will help the offense, it's not a great landing spot for Ross' fantasy value.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Bengals rookie WR John Ross (shoulder) won't be cleared for minicamp.

Ross is recovering from post-Combine labrum surgery, and the University of Washington's late graduation date will likely cost him all of OTAs. Ross should still be ready for training camp, but he'll be getting a late start.

 

Edited by Faust
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12 hours ago, ZWK said:
On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 1:15 AM, ZWK said:

I'm coming around on Tyreek Hill and Willie Snead. Matt Harmon recently released his Reception Perception data on 50 NFL WRs (behind a paywall, unfortunately), and they were among the best at getting open reliably. They also both ran a relatively balanced route tree, and were successful at getting open on a wide range of routes and regardless of man/zone/press coverage. They did both run a lot of routes out of the slot, typically off the line of scrimmage, but that isn't a huge negative these days. And the fact that their teams let Cooks and Maclin go is a positive both for getting them more opportunities this year, and as a sign of the confidence that their teams have in them.

I am at least going to be moving each of them up a tier from where I've had them ranked.

Another interesting stat from Harmon's data - here are the 6 WRs who were double covered on at least 10% of their charted routes: Mike Evans, Dez Bryant, AJ Green, Brandon Marshall, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham, and Antonio Brown. Basically a who's-who of the best traditional #1 WRs.

There are also some interesting names among the WRs who were double covered on less than 5% of their charted routes, including Terrelle Pryor, Jeremy Maclin, Jordy Nelson, Allen Robinson, Kelvin Benjamin, and Sammy Watkins. Possibly a sign that defensive coordinators weren't that worried about them?

Though it's worth noting that Harmon only charted a handful of games for each player (I think 6 games) so these numbers might be influenced by which games Harmon chose to chart (e.g., Pryor might have drawn more double coverage later in the season, or there might have been some non-charted games where the defensive coordinator chose to scheme more aggressively and send more double teams at this receiver).

Looking at Harmon's data on college receivers from the past two draft classes, there are 3 WRs who were double covered on at least 10% of their charted routes: John Ross (2016 season), Taywan Taylor (2016 season), and Corey Davis (2016 season). Coming in under the 5% mark, among receivers drafted in the first 2 rounds: Michael Thomas (2015 season), Laquon Treadwell (2015 season), Will Fuller (2015 season), Tyler Boyd (2015 season), and Corey Coleman (2015 season).

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That sounds like a pretty useful stat - the only receivers double covered on 10%+ of their routes.

John Ross and Corey Davis will cost you, though I had Ross fall to me at 1:12 (full disclosure).  Tay-Tay however becomes quite the intriguing pick in the early third round.  Especially since any double coverage against the Titans will be on Corey Davis!

 

Edited by BuckCherry
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16 hours ago, BuckCherry said:

That sounds like a pretty useful stat - the only receivers double covered on 10%+ of their routes.

John Ross and Corey Davis will cost you, though I had Ross fall to me at 1:12 (full disclosure).  Tay-Tay however becomes quite the intriguing pick in the early third round.  Especially since any double coverage against the Titans will be on Corey Davis!

 

We don't know this yet.  I was very high on Taylor.  Davis was the only receiver I had ranked ahead of him before they were drafted.  Once they get on the field, the draft position isn't going to matter.  I landed Taylor on 4 of my 6 dynasties and really struggled with selecting Zay Jones over him in a QB superflex where Zay fell to 2.11.

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9 hours ago, Nero said:

We don't know this yet.  I was very high on Taylor.  Davis was the only receiver I had ranked ahead of him before they were drafted.  Once they get on the field, the draft position isn't going to matter.  I landed Taylor on 4 of my 6 dynasties and really struggled with selecting Zay Jones over him in a QB superflex where Zay fell to 2.11.

Corey Davis > Tay-Tay.   There's a reason he's in the first 2 of all rookie drafts...

That's a fact Jack! 

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2 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

The Rodney Dangerfield of quarterbacks. Now he finally has a really good number 2. And if Mixon turns out as good as everybody says, this offense could be potent.

 

and Eifert can be healthy for even 10 games, watch out. In 2015, Dalton was on pace for 4300 yards and 33 TDs which is basically what he did in 2013. He has top 6 QB upside. 

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29 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

2nd round pick next year.

Equal to a 2nd round rookie pick?  I'll agree with that. 

Honestly I'm pretty low on Ross.  I'm almost surely wrong but I'm looking at his fellow rookie wr, Malone, to be the better receiver. 

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11 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Equal to a 2nd round rookie pick?  I'll agree with that. 

Honestly I'm pretty low on Ross.  I'm almost surely wrong but I'm looking at his fellow rookie wr, Malone, to be the better receiver. 

He's the next DeSean Jackson. Only not a jackass.

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1 minute ago, cloppbeast said:

He's the next DeSean Jackson. Only not a jackass.

Djax/Wallace/Ginn? That variety, it sure looks like.   Fwiw, I usually love those guys in large leagues and they end up being decent values most years. But Ross is generally being drafted earlier than those guys were in rookie drafts. 

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12 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Djax/Wallace/Ginn? That variety, it sure looks like.   Fwiw, I usually love those guys in large leagues and they end up being decent values most years. But Ross is generally being drafted earlier than those guys were in rookie drafts. 

 

15 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

He's the next DeSean Jackson. Only not a jackass.

I actually think he has more potential than any of those guys. If he can stay healthy, which is a big if, he has the potential to be more of an all around threat like OBJ. 

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19 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I actually think he has more potential than any of those guys. If he can stay healthy, which is a big if, he has the potential to be more of an all around threat like OBJ. 

The only thing with Ross has been staying on the field. The Bengals must not be worried about it.

Sometimes you watch a guy, and you only need to see one play to believe. I've only watched one game of his, but I'm definitely conviced and totally agree with you about his potential. The dude's fast and slick.

And I'd rather have an issue of injuries than and issue of talent. Always a chance the guy got unlucky with getting hurt.

Edited by cloppbeast
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8 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

 

I actually think he has more potential than any of those guys. If he can stay healthy, which is a big if, he has the potential to be more of an all around threat like OBJ. 

Funny, Ross Isn't the one being compared to OBJ

(Yeah, it's a fluff piece and I only mention it because you brought up OBJ)

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  • Faust changed the title to WR John Ross, NYG

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