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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (2 Viewers)

Synthesizer said:
I really hope the players have some sort of plan for this.  Everyone has heard their protest loud and clear.  Now show that you want to be part of the solution rather than part of a never-ending complaint.
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Now I'm not sure about all, but many of them have been having conversations with local law enforcement officers about how to better communities. Some have been donating their time and money to local communities to try and make relations better.

 
HellToupee said:
Nobody won yesterday. Call it like it is
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Less than a dozen players cared about CK before Saturday.  Yesterday wasn't about CK at all.  It was about Trump calling players SOBs.

If this were about CK, let's see those players step up and donate the same amount of money CK has to help fix the actual problems they are protesting.

 
KCitons said:
Nice try. If you've been paying attention you would know the answer. 

Keep in mind players were taking a knee way before Trumps comments. And I had an opinion way before that.
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You said you didn't respect the players who knelt or sat yesterday.  I'm trying to find out how far that absence of respect reaches.  

FWIW, I respect the players who knelt, sat, locked arms, stood at attention with hand over their heart, swayed back and forth while singing along and gripping their shoulder pads, whatever they felt was appropriate.  It's a free country and I thought it was great seeing so many players, coaches, and even a few owners freely express themselves.  I hope what we saw yesterday becomes the norm.      

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Less than a dozen players cared about CK before Saturday.  Yesterday wasn't about CK at all.  It was about Trump calling players SOBs.

If this were about CK, let's see those players step up and donate the same amount of money CK has to help fix the actual problems they are protesting.
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Gimme a freakin' break. 

We might as well say that if everybody loves the flag so much, let's see everyone of them sign up to fight on the front lines in Afghanistan. 

Why do we feel the need to appoint ourselves the arbiters of someone's conscience?  Whether to stand for the anthem is a personal decision, reflecting deeply personal feelings about our country and our society.  Why can't we just acknowledge that?

 
To a T, EVERY serviceman/woman/vet I know personally has said all but the same thing -

If you think they risked their lives, left their friends and family, and gave of themselves for this country so a bunch of people could kneel during the anthem... then you are right.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Less than a dozen players cared about CK before Saturday.  Yesterday wasn't about CK at all.  It was about Trump calling players SOBs.

If this were about CK, let's see those players step up and donate the same amount of money CK has to help fix the actual problems they are protesting.
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You don't get to dictate the terms or legitimacy of their protest. YWIA

 
fantasycurse42 said:
This thread is no longer about Kaepernick, his inability to be an NFL level QB anymore, and the reasons behind it, so I'll inquire about the above @Joe Bryant 

After giving the discussions from yesterday a read, the responses from both sides were sorta as expected, so these comments stood out to me and left me with a few questions, and as a frequent user of the site, I'd love to further understand. The site belongs and is owned by you guys, so the rules are what you say they are, and I feel that is more than fair. However, the moderation on this site today is as confusing (if not more) to me as it was almost a decade ago. With that being said:

1) Do you feel moderation is always level between all posters? I have no dog in any of these fights, but RBM seems no more of a troublemaker than Bruce Dickinson from all of my observations. 

2) From my standpoint, IRL, if someone called me nuts I wouldn't care all that much, but if someone said that they would nail my wife while I sat and watched in the corner, strong chance we're throwing fists. These two comments are on different levels, but based on the above, it looks like the wife comment got a 24 hour timeout from you (I've gotten much worse for far less, in my humble opinion of course). Do you feel these comments were equally wrong? I quoted BeaverCleaver bc I actually remember this poster telling another owner of the site he was an ####### and to go F himself, so I'm shocked someone like that has any leeway at all.  

3) Is there any favoritism given to specific posters? Similar to my first question.

4) Is there a set guideline to what someone will get for certain comments or is just based on the moderator, his mood that day, and his feeling towards a certain poster?  

If you would like, please feel free to move this to the moderation thread. And again, it is your site, so your rules are what they are and I think that is more than fair, I'd just love an explanation on this.

Thanks!
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People are whimsical. All you can do is hope you are treated like BD when crossing the line

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
It was a stupid thing to say but he never did make it about race.  He called all players that are protesting SOBs.  He never once said AA players only.  The outrage is making it about race because that narrative sounds better.  Believe it or not some people protect the flag/anthem.
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That is being a bit disingenuous, IMO.

What was the racial identity of the players who were protesting when he made the statement? It must have been 95% African American. A few white players (like Seth DeValve) showed solidarity by placing a hand of the shoulder of those kneeling/praying but up until that point it was pretty much a protest by black players in the NFL.

Many AA players saw this an updated version of someone in power telling them they were being uppity and should sit in the back of the bus for expressing their first amendment rights, after Trump telling owners to get these SOBs off the field. Many owners obviously saw it is this way too, or they wouldn't have released statements condemning Trump's statement or locked arms with players during the anthem like Arthur Blank and Dan Snyder (of all people).

Trump reinforced the narrative Kaep was trying to make about minority oppression and probably accomplished more in spreading Kaep's message than all the kneeling had done up to that point.

 
squistion said:
That is being a bit disingenuous, IMO.

What was the racial identity of the players who were protesting when he made the statement? It must have been 95% African American. A few white players (like Seth DeValve) showed solidarity by placing a hand of the shoulder of those kneeling/praying but up until that point it was pretty much a protest by black players in the NFL.

Many AA players saw this an updated version of someone in power telling them they were being uppity and should sit in the back of the bus for expressing their first amendment rights, after Trump telling owners to get these SOBs off the field. Many owners obviously saw it is this way too, or they wouldn't have released statements condemning Trump's statement or locked arms with players during the anthem like Arthur Blank and Dan Snyder (of all people).

Trump reinforced the narrative Kaep was trying to make about minority oppression and probably accomplished more in spreading Kaep's message than all the kneeling had done up to that point.
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You don't get to dictate the terms of someone else's comments.  He didn't mention race.  You are bringing it into this thread.

 
squistion said:
That is being a bit disingenuous, IMO.

What was the racial identity of the players who were protesting when he made the statement? It must have been 95% African American. A few white players (like Seth DeValve) showed solidarity by placing a hand of the shoulder of those kneeling/praying but up until that point it was pretty much a protest by black players in the NFL.

Many AA players saw this an updated version of someone in power telling them they were being uppity and should sit in the back of the bus for expressing their first amendment rights, after Trump telling owners to get these SOBs off the field. Many owners obviously saw it is this way too, or they wouldn't have released statements condemning Trump's statement or locked arms with players during the anthem like Arthur Blank and Dan Snyder (of all people).

Trump reinforced the narrative Kaep was trying to make about minority oppression and probably accomplished more in spreading Kaep's message than all the kneeling had done up to that point.
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You perceive this like that yet lack the knowledge of the racial component of your watermelon comment . Hmmm.

 
Koya said:
To a T, EVERY serviceman/woman/vet I know personally has said all but the same thing -

If you think they risked their lives, left their friends and family, and gave of themselves for this country so a bunch of people could kneel during the anthem... then you are right.
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Every one I know has been saying just what Trump said for over a year. 

 
Matt Light ‘ashamed’ as former Patriots teammates take part in protest

Credit: Faith Ninivaggi

Matt Light, former New England Patriot and three time Super Bowl Champion talks to media during his 13th Annual Matt Light Celebratory Shoot Out on Sept. 19, 2017. Boston Herald photo by Faith Ninivaggi.

FOXBORO — Matt Light had no problem with fans booing Patriots players when they knelt during the national anthem yesterday.

The former Patriots left tackle who was Tom Brady’s blindside protector on three Super Bowl championship teams said he walked away from the game “ashamed” after 16 Pats players took a knee.

“If you think that it’s OK to take a knee during our national anthem and disrespect openly the national anthem, you are wrong,” Light said. “I don’t care if you have a ‘but what about’ or a ‘it’s because of,’ that doesn’t’ matter.”

The anthem kneeling “would have never happened during my time,” Light said. “As a guy that’s been there and helped set up the Patriot Way so they can walk in there and do what they do, it’s beyond disheartening. It’s the first time I’ve ever been ashamed to be a Patriot. And I promise you I’m not the only one.”

No one on the Texans appeared to kneel, and given how tightly Bill Belichick has always run his ship, Light said he was surprised this would happen on his watch.

“Nobody can force anybody to do anything in a situation like that. If he chooses to do it he’s going to do it,” Light said. “But I’m going to tell you this much, with the amount of preparation and attention to detail and all the things that happen in that organization, I’m really surprised that it wasn’t dealt with so it didn’t get to that point.”

Light said of the protest, “We’ve never been those people. On the door going out it says ‘ignore the noise.’ It says ‘ignore the hype.’ It says ‘manage expectations.’ And it also says ‘speak for yourself.’ If that is not the Patriot Way anymore, then I am very disheartened and very upset. I’m also not saying that I’ll never be a Patriots fan. What I’m saying is I’m very ashamed.”

Light said he sat with a 91-year old veteran and the wife of a slain SEAL Team 6 member who was at her first NFL game.

“His wife had to sit at her first NFL game and watch what these men chose to do. Her husband died, gave his life up so that they could do that,” Light said. “That’s the reality that these so-called men don’t understand. Is it about their cause or is it about them? If it was about their cause, I could come up with a million different ways for them to really truly change things. If it’s about them, well … you see what happens. The collateral damage is widespread.

“They obviously didn’t think about anybody other than themselves.”

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
It was a stupid thing to say but he never did make it about race.  He called all players that are protesting SOBs.  He never once said AA players only.  The outrage is making it about race because that narrative sounds better.  Believe it or not some people protect the flag/anthem.
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Can't really claim that after he defended the guys walking down the street with Nazi flags.

It's a wedge issue, nothing more, nothing less.

And sadly it works.

 
Feels an awful like me using reverse psychology on my youngest to say "Don't you go put your clothes on...don't do it!  Don't you do it!" And which a big smile breaks out and he, thinking he's defying me but in fact is doing exactly what I want him to do, goes and puts on his clothes.

 
Koya said:
To a T, EVERY serviceman/woman/vet I know personally has said all but the same thing -

If you think they risked their lives, left their friends and family, and gave of themselves for this country so a bunch of people could kneel during the anthem... then you are right.
Click to expand...
Among the many things a Trump presidency has done to me, it's had me re-evaluate the four years I spent living in a state that elected Jesse "The Body" Ventura governor.  

On this issue...recall back in the late 1990s it was still cool among conservatives to call for a Constitutional Amendment criminalizing flag desecration... Ventura went on one of the Sunday morning news shows and said (paraphrasing) "I went and fought in Vietnam so people back home could keep their right to burn the flag in protest of the war."  It was quite a statement from a man superduper proud of his time in the Navy*.  

      



* Ventura loved being associated with the Navy so much, he took some heat for overstating his role in Vietnam.  Ventura claimed to be a Navy SEAL, which wasn't quite true.  His unit was actually called something like "Underwater Demolitions", a crew for soldiers who didn't pass SEAL certification but were still BMFs who exhibited SEAL-like qualities.  I admit I criticized Ventura for lying about his service record, but after further review I find his lie far less egregious than the fake doctor's note Trump used to get out of the draft.  Governor Ventura: thank you for your service.    
           

 
Skoo said:
Can't really claim that after he defended the guys walking down the street with Nazi flags.

It's a wedge issue, nothing more, nothing less.

And sadly it works.
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Nazi's = Some fine people

Black athletes expressing non-violent forms of protest = Sons of #####es

It's 2017 and we're watching prominent examples of racism as this country has seen since the 60s.  

 
What's really amusing is that many of the most vocal flag wavers (Trump & Nugent to name 2) were the quickest to run away from serving their country (as the small print above notes in Trumps case).

 
  • Smile
Reactions: Ned
HellToupee said:
You perceive this like that yet lack the knowledge of the racial component of your watermelon comment . Hmmm.
Click to expand...
I was aware of the racial component. Believe it or not I am well familiar of that association with AAs and had objected to some posters using it as a racial slur in the past. However, I was posting while watching NFL related things, and wasn't focused that closely on the context and made a gaffe (and not a fishing hook gaff, like you incorrectly labeled previously as Scooter pointed out).

 
Last edited by a moderator:
fantasycurse42 said:
This thread is no longer about Kaepernick, his inability to be an NFL level QB anymore, and the reasons behind it, so I'll inquire about the above @Joe Bryant 

After giving the discussions from yesterday a read, the responses from both sides were sorta as expected, so these comments stood out to me and left me with a few questions, and as a frequent user of the site, I'd love to further understand. The site belongs and is owned by you guys, so the rules are what you say they are, and I feel that is more than fair. However, the moderation on this site today is as confusing (if not more) to me as it was almost a decade ago. With that being said:

1) Do you feel moderation is always level between all posters? I have no dog in any of these fights, but RBM seems no more of a troublemaker than Bruce Dickinson from all of my observations. 

2) From my standpoint, IRL, if someone called me nuts I wouldn't care all that much, but if someone said that they would nail my wife while I sat and watched in the corner, strong chance we're throwing fists. These two comments are on different levels, but based on the above, it looks like the wife comment got a 24 hour timeout from you (I've gotten much worse for far less, in my humble opinion of course). Do you feel these comments were equally wrong? I quoted BeaverCleaver bc I actually remember this poster telling another owner of the site he was an ####### and to go F himself, so I'm shocked someone like that has any leeway at all.  

3) Is there any favoritism given to specific posters? Similar to my first question.

4) Is there a set guideline to what someone will get for certain comments or is just based on the moderator, his mood that day, and his feeling towards a certain poster?  

If you would like, please feel free to move this to the moderation thread. And again, it is your site, so your rules are what they are and I think that is more than fair, I'd just love an explanation on this.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I was in the thread when Bruce made that post to Birds. I quoted it because it was the nastiest thing I've seen posted here, and there are some nasty things said in those silly political threads. I'm pretty sure the issue is one of the mods, for some sick reason, went in and deleted the original post and to cover the tracks deleted my post where I quoted it. And Bruce was still posting that night or the next day maybe. So I doubt Joe even got to see it. 

Bruce is responsible for the two worst things I've seen posted. The Birds one and when he told Dodds to go F himself which I don't think he got dinged for either. Strange moderation here at FBG. 

 
honky kong said:
"Sure they have a right to protest - just don't do it where anyone will notice!"
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Wasn't it Mnuchin who said yesterday the players should do it on their own time? As if it say that when they play football, they're responsibility is to the fans and owners?

 
squistion said:
:yes:

John Chavez‏ @jchavezfbnm 4h4 hours ago

Replying to @realDonaldTrump

"Thinking NFL players are 'protesting the flag' is like thinking

Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation."
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Find another avenue. This one is not acceptable to civilized society. 

 
squistion said:
I was aware of the racial component. Believe it or not I am well familiar of that association with AAs and had objected to some posters using it as a racial slur in the past. However, I was posting while watching NFL related things, and wasn't focused that closely on the context and made a gaffe (and not a fishing hook gaff, like you incorrectly labeled previously as Scooter pointed out).
Click to expand...
:lmao:

oh dear god you are tightly wound . You are allowed to make mistakes, dear scooter will still have your back. Relax

 
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