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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (12 Viewers)

Coeur de Lion said:
You still haven't answered the question of why you are offended
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because when the anthem is played in that setting, you stand, hand over heart and you thank God you live in the United States instead of most of the other countries in the world, maybe remember just a wee bit all those who died for that flag and for this country and for your freedoms

its not a lot to ask

I fished a bass tournament this weekend - each morning a prayer and the national anthem to show respect and honor and to be proud to be American

it offends me for someone to dishonor all that

 
Stealthycat said:
because when the anthem is played in that setting, you stand, hand over heart and you thank God you live in the United States instead of most of the other countries in the world, maybe remember just a wee bit all those who died for that flag and for this country and for your freedoms

its not a lot to ask

I fished a bass tournament this weekend - each morning a prayer and the national anthem to show respect and honor and to be proud to be American

it offends me for someone to dishonor all that
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Can I thank Satan instead?

 
thayman said:
I'm telling you adding letters to LGBTQ is a bigoted thing to say.  When people call you a bigot it's because of what you say.
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I am not a bigot, I'm not intolerant at all to gays, in fact I'm all for states changing their marriage laws to allow gay marriage, fine with me, I don't care. 

But since we now know the definition .... are you intolerant of my views on things? are you a bigot ? 

big·ot

ˈbiɡət/

noun

a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.

 
GoBirds said:
  9 minutes ago, Boston said:
It seems that many people who say they want a dialogue don't really like anyone else's opinion...
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see definition of "bigot"

but your'e right - look at all the people saying to block my posts .... why ? they are intolerant of my views on things .... granted my views are not common place, but I'd never block anyone because of their opposing views, I find that counter productive to even posting on a political forum 

 
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Stealthycat said:
because when the anthem is played in that setting, you stand, hand over heart and you thank God you live in the United States instead of most of the other countries in the world, maybe remember just a wee bit all those who died for that flag and for this country and for your freedoms

its not a lot to ask

I fished a bass tournament this weekend - each morning a prayer and the national anthem to show respect and honor and to be proud to be American

it offends me for someone to dishonor all that
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So at it's core, you find the protests to be disrespectful to our veterans, and that's a deal breaker for you, regardless of the validity of the message that they are trying to send?

 
Coeur de Lion said:
So at it's core, you find the protests to be disrespectful to our veterans, and that's a deal breaker for you, regardless of the validity of the message that they are trying to send?
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not just to veterans, to the entire concept of being an American citizen

be proud of your country, proud to be American - because of that flag, of that anthem and all they represent, those players can play a game and make millions

read that again - they play a game and make millions - and they show hate to the country that gives them that ability and rights to do it ..... unbelievable

and the message? absolutely lost because of the offensive nature of their actions. Trump is no better, he was right in what he was saying, 100% wrong in how he chose to deliver it

If Trump sat during an the next anthem, refused to stand .... the liberals would be going bonkers destroying him for not being patriotic ..... why doesn't it work both ways ?

 
Definition of bigot:

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance 

 
Stealthycat said:
not just to veterans, to the entire concept of being an American citizen

be proud of your country, proud to be American - because of that flag, of that anthem and all they represent, those players can play a game and make millions

read that again - they play a game and make millions - and they show hate to the country that gives them that ability and rights to do it ..... unbelievable

and the message? absolutely lost because of the offensive nature of their actions. Trump is no better, he was right in what he was saying, 100% wrong in how he chose to deliver it

If Trump sat during an the next anthem, refused to stand .... the liberals would be going bonkers destroying him for not being patriotic ..... why doesn't it work both ways ?
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The flag is just a piece of cloth. The anthem is just a song. What is actually important are the freedoms that those symbols stand for, including the first amendment. Acknowledging that the country isn't perfect is far from hating it.

 
Stealthycat said:
name calling offends me - you need to apologize 

you don't know me, don't pretend you do, its post like this that should flag moderators on who's the true haters on forums

you did prove one thing - I typed a few extra letters on LGBQT ... and you name called and trashed me

on an internet FF political forum - think about that

then think about how much I could be offended, with my family's ties to the military, my 83 year old Dad served, was drafted into the Army, my BIL served 3 tours in Afghanistan and Iraq and NFL players disrespecting the national anthem, this country, the people who've served and died ....

me being offended doesn't matter - but you're offended greatly that I added a couple of letters .......... to the point of name calling

really ?
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No one called you a name. Relax. 

 
lod001 said:
Looks like Rishard Mathews has turned it into him vs Trump. He's now going to kneel simply until Trump apologizes. Since that will be never, he will be kneeling the rest of the year and then they can cut him because he's not really any good anyway and they don't need that distraction. They are playing some good football.
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Then the kneeling will just become part of the National Anthem eventually.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
How is this relevant in any way whatsoever? Trump is President today because Hillary was uniquely awful and failed to turn out the Democratic base. He underperformed compared to the Republican nominees over the last 4 election cycles, and squeaked out a victory in the electoral college despite losing the popular vote by 3 million. He did so because Hillary underperformed more drastically, hence she lost far more than he actually won.

It's been dissected to death here and elsewhere and is pretty much common knowledge.
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You said the math was wrong, remember?

 
BigSteelThrill said:
But he will remain employed the rest of the year?
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Not familiar with the contract details. Not sure how personal battles with the POTUS will factor into contract negotiations but looking at how Kaep said he's done kneeling and the phone still doesn't ring is say "not awesome" would be a safe bet. 

 
is this is isn't this correct ? why does the NFL care at all about playing the anthem ? the condition of the flag itsself? facing the flag? etc etc ?

appears to be incorrect - edited out 

 
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Henry Ford said:
Then why doesn't the Confederate flag bother you?
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bother me why and how ? because the events leading to succession and the Confederate states being born etc ?

that was 160 years ago in a different time and world I suppose ............ and the Confederates wasn't lacking in love of nation, they had a different view of how it should be ran, including slavery yes, but to the man, the Confederacy loved their homes, their states and their country more than any of us can imagine. 

I see what you're saying, if states got together today would I support their succession? I don't know, I'd have to think about that .... 

 
Stealthycat said:
is this is isn't this correct ? why does the NFL care at all about playing the anthem ? the condition of the flag itsself? facing the flag? etc etc ?

Here's what the game operations manual says regarding the national anthem, according to an NFL spokesperson:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

It's important to note the use of the word "may" here. The NFL is not considering punishing fines on players or teams who choose to kneel or stay in the locker room during the national anthem, the spokesperson says.
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This is the LIE of an email my Dad sent me.  Right wing propaganda.

No wonder you guys are in such an echo chamber.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
No one called you a name. Relax. 
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oh I'm not terribly offended, the point was made perfectly though 

look at what's happening though... when the left is offended, it matters a great deal

when the right is offended, its irrelevant and that's consistency with the trend over the last year or more

I mean can you imagine the backlash if a bunch of conservatives threatened violence and mass protests if a liberal speaker came to a college campus? so much so that $600,000 had to be spent to control the situation ?

Yet when the left does it .... its just protests, 1st Amendment Rights and all. 

Amazing

 
David Dodds said:
Not sure if anyone has linked to the Remington poll released today:

http://remingtonresearchgroup.com/surveys/NFL_9-25-17.pdf
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54% of the people they polled were over 50

81% either conservative or moderate

Remington's founder is political consultant Jeff Roe. Roe's clients? Cruz, Perry, Huckabee.   He's considered a hardcore ride-or-die conservative operative in the same vein as Karl Rove. 

Im sure this poll is totally legit. 

 
Stealthycat said:
not just to veterans, to the entire concept of being an American citizen

be proud of your country, proud to be American - because of that flag, of that anthem and all they represent, those players can play a game and make millions

read that again - they play a game and make millions - and they show hate to the country that gives them that ability and rights to do it ..... unbelievable

and the message? absolutely lost because of the offensive nature of their actions. Trump is no better, he was right in what he was saying, 100% wrong in how he chose to deliver it

If Trump sat during an the next anthem, refused to stand .... the liberals would be going bonkers destroying him for not being patriotic ..... why doesn't it work both ways ?
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Why are you so concerned with what other people do?  I get all the patriotism and stuff but why cant you just be concerned with what you do?

 
Stealthycat said:
be proud of your country, proud to be American - because of that flag, of that anthem and all they represent, those players can play a game and make millions

read that again - they play a game and make millions - and they show hate to the country that gives them that ability and rights to do it ..... unbelievable
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I'm quoting you here, but I am not really directing this at you, since I believe you have no ability to take yourself out of your shoes. But for a second, try to imagine being a black person who has grown up in this country. A country who has a history of treating your people poorly. Your ancestors were stolen from their homeland, and brought here to this country to live under deplorable conditions, literally being owned. Then they were freed in name only, and forced to live as second class citizens for another 100 years. Only then were laws codified to finally make it seem that things were "equal". Most black NFL player's grandparents lived in a society that had separate bathrooms, water fountains, etc. And it's not as if everything magically became right after the Civil Rights Act. Discriminatory housing and employment practices were still rampant, and exist to this day. Urban development in the 60s and 70s moved black people out of neighborhoods and into "projects". And the vestiges of slavery and being second class citizens have placed current day black people at a significant economic disadvantage compared to the rest of American society. And on top of this, they are seeing members of their community being shot without due cause, and there are a million things wrong with how the criminal justice system has treated black people.

So given all that, can you not comprehend that a black athlete would have a different view of what it means to be American? To have a different view of the flag and the anthem?

And as an aside, you can spare me the argument that because they are millionaires they are not allowed to have these feelings. Many, if not most of the black NFL players came from very humble backgrounds, ones that exist exactly because of the reasons I stated above. They have got to a point to where they have a national audience, and they are not kneeling for themselves, they are kneeling for their community.

 
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Kilgore Trout said:
I'm quoting you here, but I am not really directing this at you, since I believe you have no ability to take yourself out of your shoes. But for a second, try to imagine being a black person who has grown up in this country. A country who has a history of treating your people poorly. Your ancestors were stolen from their homeland, and brought here to this country to live under deplorable conditions, literally being owned. Then they were freed in name only, and forced to live as second class citizens for another 100 years. Only then were laws codified to finally make it seem that things were "equal". Most black NFL player's grandparents lived in a society that had separate bathrooms, water fountains, etc. And it's not as if everything magically became right after the Civil Rights Act. Discriminatory housing and employment practices were still rampant, and exist to this day. Urban development in the 60s and 70s moved black people out of neighborhoods and into "projects". And the vestiges of slavery and being second class citizens have placed current day black people at a significant economic disadvantage compared to the rest of American society. And on top of this, they are seeing members of their community being shot without due cause, and there are a million things wrong with how the criminal justice system has treated black people.

So given all that, can you not comprehend that a black athlete would have a different view of what it means to be American? To have a different view of the flag and the anthem?

And as an aside, you can spare me the argument that because they are millionaires they are not allowed to have these feelings. Many, if not most of the black NFL players came from very humble backgrounds, ones that exist exactly because of the reasons I stated above. They have got to a point to where they have a national audience, and they are not kneeling for themselves, they are kneeling for their community.
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Oh lawd...thems a lot of words for the person you're responding to.

 
So I asked my niece's husband his opinion about all of this. He served in the army for 4 years (about 12 years ago) but never saw combat.  Both of his brothers served too around the same time.  Both were in combat in Iraq/Afghanistan.  One came home rather screwed up.  PSTD enough to ruin almost every relationship he had.

The other didn't come home.  Died from an IED near Mosul. One of the saddest funerals I've ever been to.  

His direct quote "I AM NOT OFFENDED AT ALL.  AND IT IS THEIR RIGHT. PERIOD"

 
BigSteelThrill said:
This is the LIE of an email my Dad sent me.  Right wing propaganda.

No wonder you guys are in such an echo chamber.
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Dog damn it.

One of my best friends just showed up, he started (not me) hacking on the NFL stuff and repeated this same chainmail LIE to my face.

He's a school teacher and I had to tell him to go educate himself. He said he would... then immediately started #####ing the same deflectionary repetitive right-wing talking points.

 
Stealthycat said:
oh I'm not terribly offended, the point was made perfectly though 

look at what's happening though... when the left is offended, it matters a great deal

when the right is offended, its irrelevant and that's consistency with the trend over the last year or more

I mean can you imagine the backlash if a bunch of conservatives threatened violence and mass protests if a liberal speaker came to a college campus? so much so that $600,000 had to be spent to control the situation ?

Yet when the left does it .... its just protests, 1st Amendment Rights and all. 

Amazing
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I didn't know this was a Left and right thing. Who's left and who's right here?  I thought we were always talking about human's rights. I don't what your affiliation is although Trump supporters baffle me. 

 
Stealthycat said:
because when the anthem is played in that setting, you stand, hand over heart and you thank God you live in the United States instead of most of the other countries in the world, maybe remember just a wee bit all those who died for that flag and for this country and for your freedoms

its not a lot to ask

I fished a bass tournament this weekend - each morning a prayer and the national anthem to show respect and honor and to be proud to be American

it offends me for someone to dishonor all that
Click to expand...
Why can't Americans be thankful they live in this great nation without doing what you do?  Why do they have to thank God?  Why do they have to stand?  What if they have their own way that they feel stronger about?  Does that mean they don't love being an American as much as you?

 
Hawkeye21 said:
Why can't Americans be thankful they live in this great nation without doing what you do?  Why do they have to thank God?  Why do they have to stand?  What if they have their own way that they feel stronger about?  Does that mean they don't love being an American as much as you?
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as long as they pray before fishing, that should be enough.

 
Gee, if only there were some other way to show gratitude for living in this country other than participating in a ceremony that has become about half a step removed from a loyalty oath.

 
Stealthycat said:
bother me why and how ? because the events leading to succession and the Confederate states being born etc ?

that was 160 years ago in a different time and world I suppose ............ and the Confederates wasn't lacking in love of nation, they had a different view of how it should be ran, including slavery yes, but to the man, the Confederacy loved their homes, their states and their country more than any of us can imagine. 

I see what you're saying, if states got together today would I support their succession? I don't know, I'd have to think about that .... 
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So, they loved the country but had a different view of how it should be run and not only refused to salute the flag but decided to salute a new one. 

Try to find the analogy.  Just try. 

 
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