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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (7 Viewers)

Stealthycat said:
It was a long time ago, a different world, a different time ........... no, I'm not going to forge an analogy between that world, and the NFL players openly and knowingly disrespecting the people and the country. I won't draw it with Trump either, who was wrong in the words he used.

I wonder .... if we had a war start with North Korea tomorrow, how many men would would refuse to go? 20%? 50% ?   They don't love and respect their country enough to stand or to even get on a message board and defend that .......... do you think they'd go to N Korea and lay their lives down for the United States ? 

More and more this country is losing its Patriotism I think. So funny Henry Ford that you want to say the Confederacy was splitting from the USA in its infancy, and that should be offensive, but the splitting you're witnessing right now in the United States is a 1st Amendment freedom and simply an expression of views.
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So are you enlisting to go fight North Korea?  I wouldn't.

Now, if China tries to invade us I will be first in line to enlist.

 
joffer said:
it's really not.  It's perfectly clear.
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Are you saying you have some sort of unifying theory that would explain why some people condone flying a flag of rebellion against the United States and literally putting the leaders of that rebellion on pedestals, but are also outraged that some people are kneeling during the national anthem of that same country? 

Whatever could it be?  Is there some sort of connection between the impetus for that rebellion and the protests/the people protesting?  It's truly a mystery.

 
squistion said:
So, the team still kneels before the anthem and stands during the anthem?

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 3h3 hours ago

Spoke to Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboys yesterday.

Jerry is a winner who knows how to get things done.

Players will stand for Country!
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I don't get what your point is here. What is it?

 
squistion said:
This controversy would not be complete without Steven Seagal sharing his views:

Good Morning Britain @GMB 8h8 hours ago

Steven Seagal has told us he finds the NFL kneeling protest 'disgusting' and 'an outrage'

Full interview: http://www.itv.com/goodmorningbritain/news/steven-seagal-nfl-kneeling-protest-is-disgusting

Hollywood actor Steven Seagal has told Good Morning Britain that he finds the kneeling protest at NFL games 'disgusting'.

Responding to American footballers refusing to stand during the national anthem as a protest against Donald Trump, Seagal said: “I believe in free speech, I believe that everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, but I don’t agree that they should hold the United States of America or the world hostage by taking a venue where people are tuning in to watch a football game and imposing their political views."

“I think it’s outrageous, I think it’s a joke, it’s disgusting. I respect the American flag. I myself have risked my life countless times for the American flag and I don’t understand or agree with this kind of behaviour. I think it’s an outrage.”
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:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 
SWC said:
no offence catman but the fact that the methods have got you all hot and bothered pretty much tell me that they are one hell of a tactic wildly successful
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So when Trump got everyone upset, he was doing a good thing using the delivery he chose ?

 
Stealthycat said:
So when Trump got everyone upset, he was doing a good thing using the delivery he chose ?
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People aren't generally upset about the method Trump is using to express displeasure, it's the message from a sitting President.  That's a completely different thing.

But some people who are against these protests (rightly) realize that if they are against the message that pro athletes are expressing right now (that racial injustice is wrong and exists) they'll be seen as pretty racist.  So instead they attack the method.

Edit: No one is saying it's so disrespectful of the President to talk into a microphone.

 
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Hawkeye21 said:
I kind of get what he's saying but it's way too extreme.  If he didn't keep saying white supremacy he may have actually raised a point.  He could have just said the fortunate, not white supremacy.
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Yeah, I think the "privilege = white supremacy" movement is about as viable as the "everything a Republican does is fascism" movement and the "Obama is a communist Muslim" movement. Pretty poorly thought out.

 
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They should ban all the Afro-American players from playing in the NFL....

Which would really hurt Joe B's bottom line

 
Henry Ford said:
Yeah, I think the "privilege = white supremacy" movement is about as viable as the "everything a Republican does is fascism" movement and the "Obama is a communist Muslim" movement. Pretty poorly thought out.
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Exactly.  I mean, he did raise a couple good points but how he constructed that entire article was not well done and seemed to be that way in order to gain more attention.  I would agree that the fortunate ones such as myself are very proud of our nation and that we are protected.  We want to remain protected and stay privileged and we don't want to take that for granted.  When we feel that someone is disrespecting that we get very upset but the problem is that not everyone is as fortunate as us and perhaps the flag and anthem do not mean the same thing to them.

 
Stealthycat said:
If love of country doesn't mean anything to a citizen of the United States, I have no use for them. I'm sorry, the love of country is supposed to be strong, Patriotism is supposed to burn bright in a citizen, so much so that you'd die for it. 

So either NFL players don't love their country, or they do and are disrespecting it. Which is it? 

I cannot put myself exactly where they are, no more so than they can put themselves where I am or where my family came from. Yes, the country has a dark past, every country does. We've come a long way. the last sentence there is one we fundamentally disagree on 

very very rarely is someone shot without due cause - and a million things wrong with the criminal justice system treatment of black people? there are many white and brown communities in dire straights, many whites and browns on drugs, criminals, poverty, high crime etc. Don't think the problems in the black communities are only for them, they're not. Solve these problems as a COUNTRY, not as individual skin colors please. When you split everyone into groups based on color of skin, nothing good comes from it.

the problems facing the people of the United States - of all colors - needs addressed, absolutely. Using disrespect to our flag and country ? unacceptable 

I literally just asked a black friend about what he thought about it all - and he 100% agreed with me that there are issues that need addressed, kneeling is NOT a way to address them and he's offended as well and won't watch games now. He went further, and said his kids better never think they can kneel as a way to complain about something ... he said he'd bust their a$$ for it. He's absolutely right
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   14 hours ago,  Radical Larry said: 

I'm quoting you here, but I am not really directing this at you, since I believe you have no ability to take yourself out of your shoes. But for a second, try to imagine being a black person who has grown up in this country. A country who has a history of treating your people poorly. Your ancestors were stolen from their homeland, and brought here to this country to live under deplorable conditions, literally being owned. Then they were freed in name only, and forced to live as second class citizens for another 100 years. Only then were laws codified to finally make it seem that things were "equal". Most black NFL player's grandparents lived in a society that had separate bathrooms, water fountains, etc. And it's not as if everything magically became right after the Civil Rights Act. Discriminatory housing and employment practices were still rampant, and exist to this day. Urban development in the 60s and 70s moved black people out of neighborhoods and into "projects". And the vestiges of slavery and being second class citizens have placed current day black people at a significant economic disadvantage compared to the rest of American society. And on top of this, they are seeing members of their community being shot without due cause, and there are a million things wrong with how the criminal justice system has treated black people.
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That wasn't my quote.

 
packersfan said:
So answer the question I posed earlier - the Cowboys were booed in Arizona for kneeling before the anthem. Who were they disrespecting and why would they be booed for kneeling before the anthem? 
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I can't answer for the fans, but they were obviously not happy

Ask them. 

I thought the Dallas way was well done - they made a point but also stood and tried their best to display respect and Patriotism 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Don't forget all the other sports. NBA, MLB, NHL, college football, - all of them have players who have engaged in some form of protest (usually kneeling) during the anthem. You'll need to drop those too. I couldn't find any in college basketball so you're safe there for now, but I suspect that won't last long
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I don't watch any of those except maybe college - and if they're doing it? I quit watching that too.

 
i just read the the fbi has over 1000 open investigations in to white supremacist violence and domestic terror operations which is an uptick and now about the same as the number of investigations in to people inspired by isis here in the usa so good job on making american terrorism at least as great at foreign terrorism again trump take that to the bank 

 
Kilgore Trout said:
If you are a citizen of North Korea, are you supposed to love your country too? Love of country is supposed to be earned, not followed blindly. According to you, it doesn't matter what the government is doing, you are supposed to be "patriotic". Honestly, what this really tells me is that you currently see nothing wrong with the current state of the U.S., and those uppity black NFL players should shut up and know their role.
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then you're not reading what's being typed

Yes, North Koreans should love their country - they need to choose the right paths to create change (assuming they want change)

NFL players and Trump chose wrong in how they are trying to get their points across

 
David Dodds said:
Full circle now:

White Athletes Still Standing For The Anthem Are Standing For White Supremacy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/white-athletes-still-standing-for-the-anthem-are-standing_us_59c8acbbe4b0f2df5e83afcd
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I think that's awesome.

I was listening to Urban Radio (Sirius, an African-American political talk station) yesterday, and the guy on was explaining that in today's culture, the only way to get your voice heard is to include something outrageous or extreme in your argument. So he argued, why not? He was for desecrating the flag, not because he was against the flag, but because, in his words, "it might wake some of them mother####ers up!!"

This appears to be an example of that mode of thinking...

 
drummer said:
Sure, it was so good his poll numbers will sink again. 
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exactly my point

NFL players chose an act that offended many - Trump chose to act in a way that offended many. 

Why in the world would people pay attention to what the NFL players were saying any more so than what Trump was saying?

Works both ways - and both of them chose horrible ways to deliver their intent. Neither will be listened to much 

 
Stealthycat said:
exactly my point

NFL players chose an act that offended many - Trump chose to act in a way that offended many. 

Why in the world would people pay attention to what the NFL players were saying any more so than what Trump was saying?

Works both ways - and both of them chose horrible ways to deliver their intent. Neither will be listened to much 
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One of these unintentionally offended people in the process of making a point. The other intentionally offended people as the whole point. Let's see if you can figure out which is which.

 
Radical Larry said:
Enjoy never watching sports again. :thumbup:
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I don't enjoy NFL games as much as I used to ... I HATE the celebrations in the end zone. 

I was watching the Redskins game and Oak was down by what, 3 TD's? And in the closing minutes they got a sack and the guy jumps up, points his fingers to the sky with #1 fingers, sweeps the ground motion ..... uh, hey you fool, your'e getting your butt beat and you'd doing a happy dance? What the heck ? 

I can live without sports - sports cannot live without fans. 

We will see how badly this hurts the NFL long term

 
Stealthycat said:
then you're not reading what's being typed

Yes, North Koreans should love their country - they need to choose the right paths to create change (assuming they want change)

NFL players and Trump chose wrong in how they are trying to get their points across
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I don't believe you answered Henry's question,  What method of protest is perfectly acceptable for people expressing ideas you disagree with?

Should the NFL players organize and participate in a BLM protest march? Would that be an acceptable venue or an appropriate way to express dissent? If not, what would be?

 
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Autumn Wind said:
One of these unintentionally offended people in the process of making a point. The other intentionally offended people as the whole point. Let's see if you can figure out which is which.
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the NFL players knew what would happen - absolutely. They're not stupid Autumn Wind. 

Don't be naive 

 
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