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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (10 Viewers)

timschochet said:
Some Steelers fans are less classy than others:

http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12779163-74/steelers-banner-emblazoned-with-swastika-creates-stir-in-west-deer
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A West Deer man showed his displeasure over the Steelers' decision not to take the field Sunday for the national anthem by painting a swastika on a team banner outside his house.

Residents said they contacted Tribune-Review news partner WPXI-TV about the banner because they were too upset to confront the home's owner.

But Anton Uhl, who served in the Army, said the team's decision to stay off the field was an insult to veterans.

So he painted a red swastika on the Steelers banner as a statement, not because he supports Nazis.

"I'm upset the Rooneys didn't want to participate in the national anthem," Uhl told the TV station. "So to me, they're anti-American.

"There's a lot of kids that want to play football. You don't need to pay millions of dollars for these people to stand in some type of, kneeling down, giving disrespect for everything," he said.

One neighbor said Uhl's action went too far.
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Hey Anton - You know who who hated our army and its veterans?  






NAZIS!  Nazis hated you! 

How are people this stupid capable of breathing?

 
Stealthycat said:
I didn't know you knew North Koreans who live there and how they view their country. 
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And I didn't know I was actually trying to say I did.  All I did was state how their country is run.  It wasn't an opinion on how the people there feel.  Obviously there are going to be people there that love their country but they are not given much of an opportunity not to.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Reasonably intelligent people on both sides understand that stuff like this is hyperbolic nonsense, in much the same way that reasonably intelligent people on both sides immediately dismissed the child sex trafficking ring pizza place garbage as rank nonsense.
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Please do enlighten me in what I believe in regards to pizzagate.

Joe said not to troll.  Your life on our boards is not going to be long if you continue down the path calling everyone an idiot unless they think like you.

 
Don't Noonan said:
This went viral after Trump stupidly decided to tweet about this and calling the kneelers SOBs.  Half the country already hated Trump and he just made us more divided.  This past weekend was more of an F You to Trump than anything else.  
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I thought the kneeling was about social injustices to black people ?

At least that's what been said over and over on this thread.

 
David Dodds said:
so you have no idea what my position is, but you thought it needed to be added here?  I will take that as admission as trolling
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Do what you have to do. You were posting that stuff all over multiple threads which you have since deleted. You absolutely were either trolling yourself, or you actually believed it. If you want to ban me, go ahead and do so, although I've pretty clearly not done anything outside of the rules in this specific instance, other than remind folks of your own past actions.

 
David Dodds said:
so you have no idea what my position is, but you thought it needed to be added here?  I will take that as admission as trolling
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Do you guys have a history we should know about?  He didn't accuse you of having any position of pizza-gate

EDIT - Ok, maybe there is a history, but if you're embarassed about being called out on your prior pizzagate positions, that's on you

 
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Direct TV offering refunds to people who want to discontinue the NFL Network.  Never heard of a cable company willing to give money back.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
Do what you have to do. You were posting that stuff all over multiple threads which you have since deleted. You absolutely were either trolling yourself, or you actually believed it. If you want to ban me, go ahead and do so, although I've pretty clearly not done anything outside of the rules in this specific instance, other than remind folks of your own past actions.
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You have 8 warning points on our boards for abusive behavior.  This isn't that hard.  You know there was no reason to type what you did, but you did so anyway just to be an ####### and I am calling you out on it.  

 
Don't Noonan said:
While I believe it is unpatriotic,  I kind of agree with you here.  This went viral after Trump stupidly decided to tweet about this and calling the kneelers SOBs.  Half the country already hated Trump and he just made us more divided.  This past weekend was more of an F You to Trump than anything else.  
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That and we have the freedom to protest in this country however we see fit and if a man or woman chooses to exercise that freedom and protest, how does that make them unpatriotic?  

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was an NBA star who didn't stand for the anthem 20 years ago.  He viewed the American flag as a symbol of oppression and racism.  I don't recall all this outcry about not being a patriot then and NBA ratings are doing just fine 20 years later.  But now because more people are doing it in a different sport, there's an outcry?  We sure our selective in our faux outrage here.  

 
Da Guru said:
Direct TV offering refunds to people who want to discontinue the NFL Network.  Never heard of a cable company willing to give money back.
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Yep.  Fans think they are sticking it to the NFL by canceling it but they don't realize that DTV has already paid the NFL so it's not hurting them at all.  Brilliant.

 
Stealthycat said:
I thought the kneeling was about social injustices to black people ?

At least that's what been said over and over on this thread.
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Yes, that was how it started out. But that was then and this is now.

As was  mentioned over and over in past pages, Kaep started the kneeling basically about racial inequality and that theme was continued this season until Trump called out those participating as S.O.B.s.

Once Trump attacked the protestors saying they should be pulled off the field for exercising their right to free speech, he became the bigger issue as the AA players (and many owners) viewed as this being told (figuratively) to shut up and sit in the back of the bus.

 
David Dodds said:
You have 8 warning points on our boards for abusive behavior.  This isn't that hard.  You know there was no reason to type what you did, but you did so anyway just to be an ####### and I am calling you out on it.  
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  I believe you eventually said that Pizzagate might not be literally true but that you nevertheless believed that the FBI was covering up a large sex trafficking ring that powerful people like Podesta were involved in.  And you made the claim with no evidence.  Is that more accurate?

 
For those who believe that kneeling when the National Anthem is played is unpatriotic, how do you define patriotism? What does it mean to you and why is it important to be patriotic? 

 
timschochet said:
For those who believe that kneeling when the National Anthem is played is unpatriotic, how do you define patriotism? What does it mean to you and why is it important to be patriotic? 
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Putting your country's best interests over you own.  Respect all that helped make our country the greatest in the history of civilization.  Preserve those ideals and pass them on to the next generation.  

 
David Dodds said:
You have 8 warning points on our boards for abusive behavior.  This isn't that hard.  You know there was no reason to type what you did, but you did so anyway just to be an ####### and I am calling you out on it.  
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Do what you have to do then I guess. It's abundantly clear that you are taking exception with the fact that I'm pointing out something that you said and did personally as opposed to any actual and legitimate violation of the board's TOS. I'd personally definitely be interested in hearing your version of those events, because quite frankly it was pretty hugely surprising to me and pretty hugely out of character for who I thought that you were. As I said, that stuff has all been deleted, and AFAIK you have never discussed it again. Which does tend to lead one to form certain conclusions in the lack of anything more concrete.

 
General Malaise said:
Moreover, how is it NOT patriotic to exercise the freedoms that this country affords us?
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I've always been curious about people's use of this term, particularly conservatives. I've noticed that several conservative talk radio stations call themselves "The Patriot"- I've always sensed that the implication was that conservatism was the equivalence of patriotism, which I regarded as very offensive to those who are not conservative. 

My questions are meant as a challenge, but not as an attack. I think that defining patriotism is an important discussion to have in light of the President's recent comments. 

 
knowledge dropper said:
Putting your country's best interests over you own.  Respect all that helped make our country the greatest in the history of civilization.  Preserve those ideals and pass them on to the next generation.  
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Like speaking for people who don't have your voice?  Colin Kaepernick put his job in jeopardy because he thought this issue was important.  The self-interested thing to do would be to keep his mouth shut and cash some backup QB checks for a few more years. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Like speaking for people who don't have your voice?  Colin Kaepernick put his job in jeopardy because he thought this issue was important.  The self-interested thing to do would be to keep his mouth shut and cash some backup QB checks for a few more years. 
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Maybe he would have more credibility if he didn't consider all police officers pigs with his cute little socks, glorify Castro, or let his racist gf run her yap.  He's a clown.  

 
knowledge dropper said:
Putting your country's best interests over you own.  Respect all that helped make our country the greatest in the history of civilization.  Preserve those ideals and pass them on to the next generation.  
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Plot twist:  What if those protesting don't feel like this is the greatest country in the history of civilization because it still has rampant racism, oppression, inequality and too many murders of black people by the police?  What if their protest is an attempt to better our ideals and THEN pass them on to the next generation?  Because being an American gives them the right to do just that.

 
timschochet said:
I've always been curious about people's use of this term, particularly conservatives. I've noticed that several conservative talk radio stations call themselves "The Patriot"- I've always sensed that the implication was that conservatism was the equivalence of patriotism, which I regarded as very offensive to those who are not conservative. 
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The GOP and conservative media have been pretty shrewd in positioning themselves as the "patriotic party" for a long time now, and it's paying off.  It's a hollow but ultimately easily-defensible position - anyone who disagrees with you isn't agreeing with the patriotic party.  You don't want to be unpatriotic, do you?

Frankly, I don't think it's very easy to define patriotism, and few people will have an identical definition.  That's why it's such an easy political rally cry - patriotism can mean whatever you want it to mean, but if you're a patriot and someone disagrees with you or protests in what you consider to be a disrespectful manner, it's easy to groupthink and think you're on "the right side" without seeing the entire picture.

 
knowledge dropper said:
Putting your country's best interests over you own.  Respect all that helped make our country the greatest in the history of civilization.  Preserve those ideals and pass them on to the next generation.  
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All right, I can agree with all of that (though I think your first sentence is somewhat vague.) as far as your second sentence, many would argue that our country is not the greatest in world history, but I disagree with them and agree with you that it is. 

But I fail to understand how kneeling during the National Anthem is unpatriotic under this definition. It seems to me that it's in keeping with everything you named. 

Consider: Kaepernick jeapordized his career by kneeling, because he believed the cause was greater than his own interests. Therefore he fulfilled your first goal. His freedom to kneel is one of the things that defines us as a the greatest nation; therefore he achieved your second goal. By doing so he preserved our ideals and achieved your third goal. Why isn't he a great patriot in your eyes? 

 
Steve Tasker said:
The GOP and conservative media have been pretty shrewd in positioning themselves as the "patriotic party" for a long time now, and it's paying off.  It's a hollow but ultimately easily-defensible position - anyone who disagrees with you isn't agreeing with the patriotic party.  You don't want to be unpatriotic, do you?

Frankly, I don't think it's very easy to define patriotism, and few people will have an identical definition.  That's why it's such an easy political rally cry - patriotism can mean whatever you want it to mean, but if you're a patriot and someone disagrees with you or protests in what you consider to be a disrespectful manner, it's easy to groupthink and think you're on "the right side" without seeing the entire picture.
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It's like Kramer refusing to wear the AIDS ribbon while still walking to show his support.  Somebody hit the nail on the head earlier; the right is confusing patriotism with nationalism. 

 
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knowledge dropper said:
Putting your country's best interests over you own.  Respect all that helped make our country the greatest in the history of civilization.  Preserve those ideals and pass them on to the next generation.  
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Well then you should support the protesters since they are putting something that's more important ahead of symbols.  Our country's best interests are more important than a flag or anthem.

I'd like to know what people think this country would be without the flag or anthem.  Please give me honest answers.

 
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