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Don't see how you come up with Smith having greater passing yard averages overall; Kaep is at 8.3 yards per attempt, Smith at 8.0. They've attempted the same number of deep passes, but Smith has thrown 27 more passes on the year because he's had more playing time; after this week Kapernick will be ahead in all those stats.There's the small matter of 410 rushing yards and 5 rushing TDs.
Noted. Didn't know it averaged out to 0.3 more, but it's virtually the same and Kaep was supposed to bring a higher average to the table. All the talk of how all Alex did was dump passes off, but when you look at the numbers Kaep is only 0.3 yards higher on average? In reality, either he's not getting it done or Alex's averages weren't as bad as people thought. I'm also concerned about the downturn of our offense in the redzone. That's much more important and we took a big nosedive there under Kaep. I'm well aware of Kaep's rushing stats. I didn't post these numbers because I think Alex should be starting. That ship has set sail. I posted them to show that the reality of the Niners passing game is that not much has changed despite claims that the Niners are taking more deep pass attempts and opening up the offense more under Kaepernick.
Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).Code:Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
How can you honestly believe that the situation for Smith has not changed in those eight years?Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).Code:Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
Again no, it doesn't mean Alex should be the starter again or that Kaep isn't the future. Switching back now would be an even worse long term mistake. It just means to me that the switch to Kaep was indeed premature. The major reason people were in favor of going with Kaep this year was that he would open up the passing game more this year. Can anyone honestly say that this has happened? The reality is that Kaep's passing numbers are at best on equal terms with Smiths, and in the red zone they are worse. Gore has also been lost in the shuffle with the read option offense being implemented. And who knows what the effect of benching the team captain has had on the team's chemistry. All this for a marginal upgrade at best so far.I'm not even taking into account the expected young QB mistakes like the 9 fumbles, multiple delay of games, etc. But I still say the best time to iron these things out is in the preseason when Kaep should have been named the starter (next preseason that is). Not a month before the playoffs when the real playoff teams should be playing their best football.Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).Code:Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
Im not gonna add anything to this debate, its been done to death here. We will just have to agree to disagree.Again no, it doesn't mean Alex should be the starter again or that Kaep isn't the future. Switching back now would be an even worse long term mistake. It just means to me that the switch to Kaep was indeed premature. The major reason people were in favor of going with Kaep this year was that he would open up the passing game more this year. Can anyone honestly say that this has happened? The reality is that Kaep's passing numbers are at best on equal terms with Smiths, and in the red zone they are worse. Gore has also been lost in the shuffle with the read option offense being implemented. And who knows what the effect of benching the team captain has had on the team's chemistry. All this for a marginal upgrade at best so far.I'm not even taking into account the expected young QB mistakes like the 9 fumbles, multiple delay of games, etc. But I still say the best time to iron these things out is in the preseason when Kaep should have been named the starter (next preseason that is). Not a month before the playoffs when the real playoff teams should be playing their best football.Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).Code:Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
What you have quoted is not exactly what was said - it didn't really seem like a jackass remark to me, just didn't have an answer ready to go.
1.05 if I needed a QB. Late first if I was looking for a high upside backup.
That Niner board so bad at researching data and numbers that they might as well worked for Mitt Romney's polling team. Here is some basic math to help them: The regular season has 16 games.Again no, it doesn't mean Alex should be the starter again or that Kaep isn't the future. Switching back now would be an even worse long term mistake. It just means to me that the switch to Kaep was indeed premature. The major reason people were in favor of going with Kaep this year was that he would open up the passing game more this year. Can anyone honestly say that this has happened? The reality is that Kaep's passing numbers are at best on equal terms with Smiths, and in the red zone they are worse. Gore has also been lost in the shuffle with the read option offense being implemented. And who knows what the effect of benching the team captain has had on the team's chemistry. All this for a marginal upgrade at best so far.Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.
Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 intSo Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).
I'm not even taking into account the expected young QB mistakes like the 9 fumbles, multiple delay of games, etc. But I still say the best time to iron these things out is in the preseason when Kaep should have been named the starter (next preseason that is). Not a month before the playoffs when the real playoff teams should be playing their best football.
Rk G Date Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A
1 1 2012-09-09 SFO GNB W 30-22 * 20 26 76.9% 211 2 0 125.6 8.12 9.65
2 2 2012-09-16 SFO DET W 27-19 * 20 31 64.5% 226 2 0 107.7 7.29 8.58
3 3 2012-09-23 SFO MIN L 13-24 * 24 35 68.6% 204 1 1 81.1 5.83 5.11
4 4 2012-09-30 SFO NYJ W 34-0 * 12 21 57.1% 143 0 0 78.1 6.81 6.81
5 5 2012-10-07 SFO BUF W 45-3 * 18 24 75.0% 303 3 0 156.2 12.63 15.13
6 6 2012-10-14 SFO NYG L 3-26 * 19 30 63.3% 200 0 3 43.1 6.67 2.17
7 7 2012-10-18 SFO SEA W 13-6 * 14 23 60.9% 140 1 1 74.5 6.09 5.00
8 8 2012-10-29 SFO ARI W 24-3 * 18 19 94.7% 232 3 0 157.1 12.21 15.37
9 9 2012-11-11 SFO STL T 24-24 * 7 8 87.5% 72 1 0 143.7 9.00 11.50
9 Games 152 217 70.0% 1731 13 5 104.1 7.98 8.14Rk G Date Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A
7 10 2012-11-19 SFO CHI W 32-7 * 16 23 69.6% 243 2 0 133.1 10.57 12.30
8 11 2012-11-25 SFO NOR W 31-21 * 16 25 64.0% 231 1 1 90.6 9.24 8.24
9 12 2012-12-02 SFO STL L 13-16 * 21 32 65.6% 208 0 0 83.9 6.50 6.50
10 13 2012-12-09 SFO MIA W 27-13 * 18 23 78.3% 185 0 0 100.2 8.04 8.04
11 14 2012-12-16 SFO NWE W 41-34 * 14 25 56.0% 221 4 1 108.5 8.84 10.24
12 15 2012-12-23 SFO SEA L 13-42 * 19 36 52.8% 244 1 1 72.0 6.78 6.08Is Karl Rove still in the building? Because Sando walked into that Niner board type trap and then realized that the data is incomplete and maybe just stretching the truth about those numbers. But see that's what is driving this whole idiotic comparison between the two Qbs: the quest who can make the “Magic number” stick, when there is no Magic number. If you just looked at each game from each QB, you still find that again, Kaep's worst games aren't as bad as Smith's worst games and there is no real argument on who has a better average because they don't really run the same offense respectively. All kinds of variables such as team health, plays that are called, opposition, Sept/Oct vs. Nov/Dec, consecutive starts, special teams, field position, so on so forth. Screw all that nonsense. Lets just throw everything into a blender and see if it comes out a Margarita!
If you really wanna look at a real possible reason why Harbaugh made that switch, it could be that it has really nothing to do with either QB's pluses or minuses, .3 difference of Y/A, cooking efficiency numbers and stats to qualify or disqualify the switch, etc. It may be due to both Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman being impatient and wanting to put their real offense in now rather than later, with the one QB who in a small part helped influence their ideas along with a huge part in his coach. Here are a few paragraphs from a fine article from SBNation to help slam this door shut:
Go get a glass of milk and cookies.great research above, but really all you need to do is watch the games. Kaep shouldn't be starting and outside of a couple nice plays in a couple games, he doesn't really look like he is going to be a good starter in the NFL. But hey, at least Alex Smith isn't starting anymore
I am SO gonna bump this post next season.Kaeperflash (for an easy search to find this post)great research above, but really all you need to do is watch the games. Kaep shouldn't be starting and outside of a couple nice plays in a couple games, he doesn't really look like he is going to be a good starter in the NFL. But hey, at least Alex Smith isn't starting anymore
You won't find hornet in a 49er thread since he will be complaining how Rex Ryan benched Smith in another.I am SO gonna bump this post next season.Kaeperflash (for an easy search to find this post)great research above, but really all you need to do is watch the games. Kaep shouldn't be starting and outside of a couple nice plays in a couple games, he doesn't really look like he is going to be a good starter in the NFL. But hey, at least Alex Smith isn't starting anymore
Smith added one more completion to his regular season stat sheet in mop up duty so I'm sure butcher boy will call that Superior or something.Loli dont know how anyone can watch and not think he will be a star.
Lol. Just for poops and giggles, here's his projected stats over 16 games based on those numbers:4,144 pass yards22 passing tds, 7 ints 944 rushing yards, 11 rushing tdsSo 5000+ total yards, 33 total tds, 7 ints.Yeah, he has no chance of being a star.
Not much insight or analysis in this. You could probably find something similar in one of Reacher Report's bazillion pigeon feeds of 49er articles written by 17 year olds with ADD. But since it's Jaws we might as well take a peek.
The Chachinator agrees. He looks better than one would hope for and the Chachinator believes his coaching staff will turn this "project" into a star. Very bright future with a real shot at a Super Bowl this year.Lol
I got a list of 49er fansites that you should check out. They are more your speed.
Ahh sorry Drummer, I realize this is a fantasy football forum. I'm not arguing Smith is the better fantasy QB
. As a fan of the 49ers though, I honestly feel Smith gives us the better chance to win. He has a higher QBR, completion %, and oh yea what's that thing that's most important? Winning %. Would Alex Smith have lost us that game against the Rams? Doubt it. How many fumbles does Kaep have? 9? In 7 games? You're just upset because you know that the 49ers very well might lose on Saturday with your boy Kaep under center. Alex Smith already beat the Pack on the road. Doesn't mean Kaep won't be a great QB in the future, but it will mean that the Smith of 2011-2012 is a better QB than Kaep of 2012. No need to get all bitter when your boy can't get it done.
This is really horrid trolling.Ahh sorry Drummer, I realize this is a fantasy football forum. I'm not arguing Smith is the better fantasy QB
Says the guy who essentially called me stupid, but can't find a way around my argument?This is really horrid trolling.Ahh sorry Drummer, I realize this is a fantasy football forum. I'm not arguing Smith is the better fantasy QB
Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
I'm not calling you stupid. Your argument speaks for itself. If you want to count winning percentage, then you need to use 2005 to 2012 for Smith. Oh wait, that kinda blows things up for you a bit now.Says the guy who essentially called me stupid, but can't find a way around my argument?This is really horrid trolling.Ahh sorry Drummer, I realize this is a fantasy football forum. I'm not arguing Smith is the better fantasy QB
You're just upset because you know that the 49ers very well might lose on Saturday with your boy Kaep under center. Alex Smith already beat the Pack on the road. Doesn't mean Kaep won't be a great QB in the future, but it will mean that the Smith of 2011-2012 is a better QB than Kaep of 2012. No need to get all bitter when your boy can't get it done.
Norcal believes Justin Beiber really deserves a Grammy nomination.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh. Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.
That's ridiculous. People made excuses for Alex longer than any other QB in history. And when he won last year it was clear that the defense and running game paved the way. Smith beat GB in week 1 following that formula - it's hardly conclusive proof that Alex is better than Kaepernick if the defense gives out on Kaepernick this weekend and SF loses.
He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.
Yea, Alex Smith had nothing to do with that playoff win against the saints. He only had all the touchdowns. He was pretty pathetic setting the NFL record for completion % in game this year too.
My mistake. I'll own up to mine. At least I know my addition and subtraction though.
Is 7 Ints a lot? I was under the impression it was well below league average. Not sure about this but didn't he set or come close to setting the record for most passes without an INT?
Passes without an INT should also weigh passing yardage and 3rd down/RZ percentages, all of which the 49er passing game with Smith was poor. If we went back to Smith's 2011 season as far as passing yardage, he is right in the middle of the pack with Tarvaris Jackson right behind him. Again, if you're gonna use stats like QBR or whatever you can want to use, it's best to use stats in a single 16 game season, not aggregate them over a a period of game 7 of last season to game 5 of the next. That's cherry picking stats. Smith has only started 9 games this season, so to use any stats to compare him to Kaep is kinda whack, because the season doesn't end at 9 games. I've already posted stats, basic stats between them in this thread already.
Is andrew luck not better than CK?? I'd trade CK for Luck or Tannehill (in real football) long term. You showing just how dirty harbaugh did smith doesn't prove anything. I already knew he was a total fraud. If they lose against the packers i would contend they should've made the switch over the offseason. Would have had legitimacy if smith didn't get it done. Wouldn't have need to have happened if he did. Now we'll never know.
Kaepernick in NE this year was more impressive than smith at home against NO. And that was smiths best game in his entire career. Kaepernick had 7 starts.
You're calling Harbaugh a total fraud for doing what the other 2 head coaches did with Smith: bench him. If Bill Walsh himself benched Smith, Alex fans would call him a total fraud. If the 49ers had Andrew Luck this team be set without a whole lot of players they have now like Vernon Davis and Patrick Willis. If CIN hadn't grabbed Andy Dalton the 49ers would have drafted him instead of Kaep, and he would had been starting last season. If Peyton Manning had signed with the 49ers this argument and thread wouldn't exist. Either way, this team isn't about Alex Smith, and it never was. Harbaugh wasn't hired to fix him and be tied to the hip with Smith. He was hired to change the culture of the team and win games doing so. He wasn't expected to do it this fast, but he did. He has won games with both Smith and Kaep. He could probably win a game with Tolzien. I dunno if he can without Justin Smith, who Nolan signed.
You're crazy if you'd trade Kaep for Tannehill in NFL terms. I'd love to hear your reasoning.
Better prospect. Tannehill
Don't need to call you stupid with a post like this one.
Norcal did say he can do math.
