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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news


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So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).

Don't see how you come up with Smith having greater passing yard averages overall; Kaep is at 8.3 yards per attempt, Smith at 8.0. They've attempted the same number of deep passes, but Smith has thrown 27 more passes on the year because he's had more playing time; after this week Kapernick will be ahead in all those stats.There's the small matter of 410 rushing yards and 5 rushing TDs.
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says the guy who is on an internet politics forum while the game is on saying he doesnt want to be bothered by political stuff during the game take that to the bank bromigos 

John Chavez‏ @jchavezfbnm 4h4 hours ago Replying to @realDonaldTrump "Thinking NFL players are 'protesting the flag' is like thinking Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation."

I'm quoting you here, but I am not really directing this at you, since I believe you have no ability to take yourself out of your shoes. But for a second, try to imagine being a black person who has g

So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).

Don't see how you come up with Smith having greater passing yard averages overall; Kaep is at 8.3 yards per attempt, Smith at 8.0. They've attempted the same number of deep passes, but Smith has thrown 27 more passes on the year because he's had more playing time; after this week Kapernick will be ahead in all those stats.There's the small matter of 410 rushing yards and 5 rushing TDs.
Noted. Didn't know it averaged out to 0.3 more, but it's virtually the same and Kaep was supposed to bring a higher average to the table. All the talk of how all Alex did was dump passes off, but when you look at the numbers Kaep is only 0.3 yards higher on average? In reality, either he's not getting it done or Alex's averages weren't as bad as people thought. I'm also concerned about the downturn of our offense in the redzone. That's much more important and we took a big nosedive there under Kaep. I'm well aware of Kaep's rushing stats. I didn't post these numbers because I think Alex should be starting. That ship has set sail. I posted them to show that the reality of the Niners passing game is that not much has changed despite claims that the Niners are taking more deep pass attempts and opening up the offense more under Kaepernick.
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We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.

Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).:popcorn:
Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.
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We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.

Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).:popcorn:
Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.
How can you honestly believe that the situation for Smith has not changed in those eight years?
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We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.

Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).:popcorn:
Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.
Again no, it doesn't mean Alex should be the starter again or that Kaep isn't the future. Switching back now would be an even worse long term mistake. It just means to me that the switch to Kaep was indeed premature. The major reason people were in favor of going with Kaep this year was that he would open up the passing game more this year. Can anyone honestly say that this has happened? The reality is that Kaep's passing numbers are at best on equal terms with Smiths, and in the red zone they are worse. Gore has also been lost in the shuffle with the read option offense being implemented. And who knows what the effect of benching the team captain has had on the team's chemistry. All this for a marginal upgrade at best so far.I'm not even taking into account the expected young QB mistakes like the 9 fumbles, multiple delay of games, etc. But I still say the best time to iron these things out is in the preseason when Kaep should have been named the starter (next preseason that is). Not a month before the playoffs when the real playoff teams should be playing their best football.
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We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.

Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).:popcorn:
Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?Ummm, no.
Again no, it doesn't mean Alex should be the starter again or that Kaep isn't the future. Switching back now would be an even worse long term mistake. It just means to me that the switch to Kaep was indeed premature. The major reason people were in favor of going with Kaep this year was that he would open up the passing game more this year. Can anyone honestly say that this has happened? The reality is that Kaep's passing numbers are at best on equal terms with Smiths, and in the red zone they are worse. Gore has also been lost in the shuffle with the read option offense being implemented. And who knows what the effect of benching the team captain has had on the team's chemistry. All this for a marginal upgrade at best so far.I'm not even taking into account the expected young QB mistakes like the 9 fumbles, multiple delay of games, etc. But I still say the best time to iron these things out is in the preseason when Kaep should have been named the starter (next preseason that is). Not a month before the playoffs when the real playoff teams should be playing their best football.
Im not gonna add anything to this debate, its been done to death here. We will just have to agree to disagree.
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Press: "What did you learn from this game?"

Kaep: "We have to play better"

Press: "We all know that, but be specific about it..."

Kaep: "Well, you have to be asked a specific question to give a specific answer".

Wow, stay classy guy. I could NEVER imagine Russell Wilson giving an interview like that. I guess that's the difference between a mentally tough QB and a.... not so mentally tough QB.

Watch the train wreck of an interview here: http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/videos/Press-Pass-Colin-Kaepernick/01693892-9e3c-40b1-8ebe-3943e830b1d8

What you have quoted is not exactly what was said - it didn't really seem like a jackass remark to me, just didn't have an answer ready to go.
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We're almost at the point where Colin and Alex have the same amount of time as a starter this season. Some interesting stats posted on a niner board.

Red ZoneKaep 18/39 102 yards 2 yard average 45% 6 td 2 intsAlex 17/23 104 yards 4 yard average 76% 12 td's 2 ints20-50Kaep 33/56 411 yards 7.34 average 59% 4td 1 intAlex 52/80 674 8.43 average 65% 5 td 1 int.50-20Kaep 54/78 810 yards 10 yard average 62% 0 td 1 intAlex 62/89 688 yards 7.7 yard average 69.7% 0 td 2 intStarting at 20 or lessKaep 20/28 235 yards 8.39 yard average 71%Alex 26/31 283 yards 9.13 yard average 84%Balls by yards:Kaep 31 2/9 22% 1 td 1 intAlex 31 3/9 33% 1 td 0 int20-30Kaep 6/8 75% 2 td 0 intAlex 5/8 62% 2 td 1 int10-20Kaep 20/35 57% 1 td 1 intAlex 22/39 56% 2 td 3 int10 to LOSKaep 59/84 70% 3 td 0 intAlex 100/135 74% 8 td 1 int
So Alex's stats are superior in the red zone, he sustained longer drives as a starter, and has greater passing yard averages overall (thought that was something Kaep was supposed to excel at). Similar numbers for passes greater than 20+ yards but notice how they've attempted the same number of deep passes (also thought this was what Kaep brought to the table).

:popcorn:

Gee, so a guy who has been a starter in the league for 8 years had slightly better stats than a guy who has had 6 starts in his career? And that's supposed to make me wish for Alex to be the starter again?

Ummm, no.

Again no, it doesn't mean Alex should be the starter again or that Kaep isn't the future. Switching back now would be an even worse long term mistake. It just means to me that the switch to Kaep was indeed premature.

The major reason people were in favor of going with Kaep this year was that he would open up the passing game more this year. Can anyone honestly say that this has happened? The reality is that Kaep's passing numbers are at best on equal terms with Smiths, and in the red zone they are worse. Gore has also been lost in the shuffle with the read option offense being implemented. And who knows what the effect of benching the team captain has had on the team's chemistry. All this for a marginal upgrade at best so far.

I'm not even taking into account the expected young QB mistakes like the 9 fumbles, multiple delay of games, etc. But I still say the best time to iron these things out is in the preseason when Kaep should have been named the starter (next preseason that is). Not a month before the playoffs when the real playoff teams should be playing their best football.

That Niner board so bad at researching data and numbers that they might as well worked for Mitt Romney's polling team. Here is some basic math to help them:

The regular season has 16 games.

Alex Smith started 9 of those games.

Colin Kaepernick started 6 of those games.

9 minus 6 equals 3.

Now, there is 3 games worth of data that isn't complete in the 2012 season. If we had 9 games apiece to weigh this on - and in the future the NFL regular season might have 18 games – then we have something to work with. But we don't have 9 games apiece, and by the time the NFL has a 18 game regular season Alex Smith will be with another team, and then be compared to the backup or rookie who beats him out like they have done his entire career. So those missing 'swing games' are what that 'Niner board' (see – 49erWebzone or similar) data crunchers are missing.

It doesn't take Nate Silver to figure the following out. Probably because this is actual data that is compiled in actual games:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitAl03/gamelog/2012/


Rk G Date Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A
1 1 2012-09-09 SFO GNB W 30-22 * 20 26 76.9% 211 2 0 125.6 8.12 9.65
2 2 2012-09-16 SFO DET W 27-19 * 20 31 64.5% 226 2 0 107.7 7.29 8.58
3 3 2012-09-23 SFO MIN L 13-24 * 24 35 68.6% 204 1 1 81.1 5.83 5.11
4 4 2012-09-30 SFO NYJ W 34-0 * 12 21 57.1% 143 0 0 78.1 6.81 6.81
5 5 2012-10-07 SFO BUF W 45-3 * 18 24 75.0% 303 3 0 156.2 12.63 15.13
6 6 2012-10-14 SFO NYG L 3-26 * 19 30 63.3% 200 0 3 43.1 6.67 2.17
7 7 2012-10-18 SFO SEA W 13-6 * 14 23 60.9% 140 1 1 74.5 6.09 5.00
8 8 2012-10-29 SFO ARI W 24-3 * 18 19 94.7% 232 3 0 157.1 12.21 15.37
9 9 2012-11-11 SFO STL T 24-24 * 7 8 87.5% 72 1 0 143.7 9.00 11.50
9 Games 152 217 70.0% 1731 13 5 104.1 7.98 8.14

Note: these game logs are from Pro-Football Reference. Within these game logs in the link are stats and plays compiled after every game. You can research any particular player -in this case QB-, their game at any angle, from pass targets, where those pass targets were completed, how many yards, etc. It's awesome stuff, and major props to Chase Stuart and Co. for this info.

The problem with the “Kaep is posting Smith numbers” crowd is that they don't understand the numbers. This is just a basic table of numbers that doesn't include sacks. Smith in these 9 starts has taken 24 of them. Kaep in 6 games as starter has taken 11. Now we can hypothetically add 3 'swing games' (see – games that don't exist yet, but the Niner board pollsters are adding them in because they think they can win this thing) in this, and Kaep would have to take 13 sacks in 3 remaining regular season games to match Smith as a starter (note: I am just counting sacks as a starter, not Kaep's sacks as a backup. There are valid reasons for this, because if we are going to look at averages, then we have to also look at Kaep's limited snaps as a backup.) So right there is a Smith number that Kaep isn't posting.

If you go game by game, you really see Smith's Y/A fluctuate big time. Of course this happens with every NFL QB, thus people average it out as a whole. But to compare Kaep's averages to Smith's without looking at it game to game won't tell you anything about the offense, special teams, of the defense as well as the sack numbers. Smith has 4 games below 7.00 Y/A. The four games he had below that average were poor passing games overall from Smith and the offense. Against MIN he posted 1TD (a one yard pass to Vernon Davis – hey, there is that “superior RZ number”) and 1 INT. Of course it's there on the table. If you look at the next game against NYJ you also see another poor game in the passing offense. Against BUF he had a great game - but Marc Sanchez threw 3tds against them as well as food for thought. Against NYG, well that's the worst game by a 49er QB this season, and Smith was the one who posted it. Yes, it's worse than Kaep's last game for a number of reasons, one of which is team health. Smith then follows up the NYG game with a home game against SEA. Again, another poor effort (at home no less) from the passing offense, with only a 12 yard TD pass (hey, there is that Superior RZ number again!) to 1 more INT (that's 4 in 2 consecutive games folks, both games at home).

Now somewhere in all this is some weird argument over a .3 in Y/A between both Qbs.

After these two games, the media started to question Smith's confidence and decision making. Why? Because these were two poor passing games from the QB. What can help a QB's confidence?

A game against AZ facing John Skelton and his 52 attempts/dropbacks. Right in the middle of an AZ 9 game losing slide that started with BUF, yet ended against DET!

Against STL (whose new HC in Jeff Fisher is doing a great job IMO starting with his defense which is much improved) , Smith was had one 14 yard TD before getting injured (again, that superior RZ number) with a 9.00 Y/A. Did you look at how many attempts? That's right! We are now lumping in a half game or so as a starter, along with the spikes in the games against BUF and AZ, and I didn't include the games against GB and DET yet (which those 2 games were solid from Smith as well as the rest of the team, yes even Akers with his 63 yard bomb against GB). So let's try something here. Since Niner board's “swing stats” has 3 less games for Kaep as starter, let's subtract 3 games from Smith. You get to choose which games and their Y/A here. That would even them out at 6 games a piece as starters. Ready?

GO.

Now if you were THAT GUY who subtracted Smith's worse games in Y/A and such to Smith's best games, guess what? You're cherry picking stats!

“But you said we can choose 3 games!”

That's because there is no such thing as 9 consecutive games from Kaep as starter yet. But since Niner board posted some Romney polling team numbers from some yet to be named Niner forum, I figured we can play fast and loose with the numbers game.

As far as superior RZ and sustained drives: I dunno where this argument comes from. I guess the 24 sacks have something to do with it. I guess David Akers kicking a boat load of 40+ yard FG's has nothing to do with it. Andy Lee is punting around the same numbers with either QB. Kendall Hunter and Kyle Williams have been both out since after Week 11. I guess we need three more games to make that argument. I dunno why the Y/A comparison is being made here. I'll post Kaep's table so we can take a peek at it:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaepCo00/gamelog/2012/


Rk G Date Tm Opp Result GS Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Int Rate Y/A AY/A
7 10 2012-11-19 SFO CHI W 32-7 * 16 23 69.6% 243 2 0 133.1 10.57 12.30
8 11 2012-11-25 SFO NOR W 31-21 * 16 25 64.0% 231 1 1 90.6 9.24 8.24
9 12 2012-12-02 SFO STL L 13-16 * 21 32 65.6% 208 0 0 83.9 6.50 6.50
10 13 2012-12-09 SFO MIA W 27-13 * 18 23 78.3% 185 0 0 100.2 8.04 8.04
11 14 2012-12-16 SFO NWE W 41-34 * 14 25 56.0% 221 4 1 108.5 8.84 10.24
12 15 2012-12-23 SFO SEA L 13-42 * 19 36 52.8% 244 1 1 72.0 6.78 6.08

Note: I didn't include rushing stats for either QB, although Kaep's athleticism and speed would most definitely be a key here for the QB switch

Now of course you see game spikes facing opponents in CHI and NWE from Kaep, who are far tougher teams to Smith's spikes against BUF and AZ.

Kaep's worst games aren't even close to Smith's worst games, and Kaep's worst numbers are not nearly as bad as Smith's worst numbers. So again we can throw out the “Kaep is posting Smith numbers” out with the Niner board bathwater. Even Smith's best game against BUF had a 300 yard rushing day. Kaep's best day had 120 yards less rushing on the road in December NWE conditions. Good day for the 49er ground game there too. Bad day for the 49er defense.

Kaep's worst game so far is obviously against SEA. It's tough for either QB facing a team that is hot and just scored 100 points in consecutive games facing them in their house. It's tougher when the 49ers miss the Smith they can't afford to miss, Justin, who while injured the 49er defense gave up a ton of points in six quarters of football. Even tougher when Frank Gore has only 28 yards in 6 attempts, with most of those attempts in the first half. Kaep is starting in the stretch run of November and December. He's thrown for 1332 yards, 8tds to 3 ints as starter, 4 of those games on the road. Smith had only one series of consecutive games on the road where Kaep has had two of them, again in the tough months of NOV and DEC. Why would Harbaugh start a second year QB during these tough months? At least Kaep has one home game with AZ to try to correct the SEA game, and that also goes for Harbaugh and the rest of the team.

What's funny here is that Sando tries to make a similar argument to Niner board's, but then reiterates what I have posted already:

The 49ers' efficiency in the red zone and in overlapping goal-to-go situations has fallen off with Kaepernick. For example, the 49ers were above 50 percent in red zone touchdown percentage four times in their first eight games, all with Smith starting. They have not been above 50 percent with Kaepernick starting.

There aren't enough stats built up over time to make the numbers definitive. There are some key variables to consider.

Kaepernick has made four of his six starts on the road, some against top teams such as New England and Seattle. Removing the Buffalo game from Smith's ledger would push Kaepernick into the lead in points per drive, percentage of drives leading to touchdowns and expected points added per drive.

Those are things to keep in mind when deciding how far to run with the numbers. Also, there were drives when both quarterbacks participated. I'll look for ways to refine the information as we continue to analyze the quarterback situation in San Francisco.

Is Karl Rove still in the building? Because Sando walked into that Niner board type trap and then realized that the data is incomplete and maybe just stretching the truth about those numbers. But see that's what is driving this whole idiotic comparison between the two Qbs: the quest who can make the “Magic number” stick, when there is no Magic number. If you just looked at each game from each QB, you still find that again, Kaep's worst games aren't as bad as Smith's worst games and there is no real argument on who has a better average because they don't really run the same offense respectively. All kinds of variables such as team health, plays that are called, opposition, Sept/Oct vs. Nov/Dec, consecutive starts, special teams, field position, so on so forth. Screw all that nonsense. Lets just throw everything into a blender and see if it comes out a Margarita! :banned:

If you really wanna look at a real possible reason why Harbaugh made that switch, it could be that it has really nothing to do with either QB's pluses or minuses, .3 difference of Y/A, cooking efficiency numbers and stats to qualify or disqualify the switch, etc. It may be due to both Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman being impatient and wanting to put their real offense in now rather than later, with the one QB who in a small part helped influence their ideas along with a huge part in his coach. Here are a few paragraphs from a fine article from SBNation to help slam this door shut:

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2012/12/27/3792740/pistol-offense-nfl-redskins-rg3

About three years ago, Greg Roman, then offensive coordinator at Stanford University, traveled to Reno, Nev., to visit with Nevada Wolf Pack head coach Chris Ault to learn about his “Pistol Offense.” Before the 2005 season, Ault, unhappy with his offense, presented his staff with a new idea – a shotgun formation with the running back aligned directly behind the quarterback. “They thought I’d lost my marbles,” Ault recently recalled. But with the “Pistol” Nevada went from near the bottom to the top of its conference in offensive production and over the next few years slowly added additional components to the attack to make it even more effective.

The potency of Ault’s offense peaked during the 2009 season when they finished the season with three 1,000-yard rushers – two running backs as well as lanky junior quarterback, a Colin Kaepernick, who added another 2,000 passing yards and 20 touchdowns. The following offseason Roman – along with many other coaches from across the country – visited Ault. He wanted to learn how to add some Pistol looks to the pro-style offense he ran at Stanford under head coach Jim Harbaugh. During their visit, Ault was, according to Roman, “very accommodating and it was very interesting as a coach to go really learn something totally new,” he said, adding, “That was very valuable time spent.”

The next season Stanford added a few such new looks, but did not focus on it. But, as fate would have it, Roman, now the San Francisco 49ers’ offensive coordinator, still under Harbaugh, coaches Kaepernick, the 49ers’ second-round draft pick in 2011. These days he finds himself going back to his notes from those few days he spent in Reno .

Still, even with his inside knowledge of Ault’s attack, and Kaepernick on the 49ers’ roster, Roman and Harbaugh didn’t immediately decide to turn things over to their young quarterback. Instead, and despite the off-and-on success teams like the Carolina Panthers and the Denver Broncos had dabbling in these concepts with quarterbacks Cam Newton and Tim Tebow in 2011, it was not until this season, when Robert Griffin III entered the NFL and emerged as the Washington Redskins’ starting quarterback, that many other NFL coaches began to realize Ault’s ideas might be the next big thing. “The Redskins do it more than anybody,” said Roman. “We’re just starting to tap into it now.”

The 49ers also lined up in the Pistol set, with Frank Gore behind Colin Kaepernick, but instead of just one fullback they used two, one on either side of the quarterback. (These were actually tight-ends, but they played the role of fullbacks.) This is the “Diamond formation,” which first became popular during the 2010 season when Oklahoma State used it with great success [source] (though their quarterback, Brandon Weeden, was no running threat), and has since been picked up elsewhere. Against the Dolphins, the 49ers used the exact same concept as the Redskins, but with two “arcing” lead blockers instead of only one.

Kaepernick and Gore both opened to their left, with Kaepernick reading the Dolphins’ backside defensive end. But, unlike the Ravens, who keyed on Griffin, the Dolphins defense was almost entirely focused on Frank Gore plunging into the line. Kaepernick kept the ball himself, and darted away to find nothing but green grass and a wide open field. The result was a 50-yard touchdown run and, more importantly, a win for the 49ers.

The other rebuttal is simply to look and see what other teams are doing around the league. The clear trend is that more and more teams are adopting these concepts. Just as Roman and Harbaugh have embraced the trend to take better advantage of Colin Kaepernick’s skills, Seattle Seahawk head coach Pete Carroll has tapped into the best read option concepts as a spark for his offense led by his own dynamic rookie quarterback, Russell Wilson. Following a 19-13 loss to the St. Louis Rams, Carroll watched film of Griffin’s Redskins attack and saw something he didn't necessarily expect: an NFL team successfully using the very concepts he’d had to deal with when he was head coach at Southern Cal and faced Chip Kelly’s Oregon team

Edited by drummer
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great research above, but really all you need to do is watch the games. Kaep shouldn't be starting and outside of a couple nice plays in a couple games, he doesn't really look like he is going to be a good starter in the NFL. But hey, at least Alex Smith isn't starting anymore :rolleyes:

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great research above, but really all you need to do is watch the games. Kaep shouldn't be starting and outside of a couple nice plays in a couple games, he doesn't really look like he is going to be a good starter in the NFL. But hey, at least Alex Smith isn't starting anymore :rolleyes:

Go get a glass of milk and cookies.
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great research above, but really all you need to do is watch the games. Kaep shouldn't be starting and outside of a couple nice plays in a couple games, he doesn't really look like he is going to be a good starter in the NFL. But hey, at least Alex Smith isn't starting anymore :rolleyes:

I am SO gonna bump this post next season.Kaeperflash (for an easy search to find this post)
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great research above, but really all you need to do is watch the games. Kaep shouldn't be starting and outside of a couple nice plays in a couple games, he doesn't really look like he is going to be a good starter in the NFL. But hey, at least Alex Smith isn't starting anymore :rolleyes:

I am SO gonna bump this post next season.Kaeperflash (for an easy search to find this post)
You won't find hornet in a 49er thread since he will be complaining how Rex Ryan benched Smith in another.
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7 Starts:

62.3 completion percentage, 1,814 yards, ten touchdowns, and three interceptions. He added 415 yards and five more scores on the ground.

Dude sucks....
Lol :goodposting: i dont know how anyone can watch and not think he will be a star.
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7 Starts:

62.3 completion percentage, 1,814 yards, ten touchdowns, and three interceptions. He added 415 yards and five more scores on the ground.

Dude sucks....
Lol :goodposting: i dont know how anyone can watch and not think he will be a star.
Smith added one more completion to his regular season stat sheet in mop up duty so I'm sure butcher boy will call that Superior or something.
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7 Starts:

62.3 completion percentage, 1,814 yards, ten touchdowns, and three interceptions. He added 415 yards and five more scores on the ground.

Dude sucks....
Lol. Just for poops and giggles, here's his projected stats over 16 games based on those numbers:4,144 pass yards22 passing tds, 7 ints 944 rushing yards, 11 rushing tdsSo 5000+ total yards, 33 total tds, 7 ints.Yeah, he has no chance of being a star. :banned:
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Kaep took only one sack this game, bringing his sack total in 7 starts at 12. That's half of what Smith has taken in 9. Part of that may have to do with several throwaways that doesn't help a completion total (like Smith against AZ, which got them into deeper 3rd down situations taking those sacks, and tossed a lateral that didn't make his record completion total), yet helps in distance going into 3rd down and such. The offense was still poor on 3rd down, but Kaep was 2/2 on 4th down throws.

He also has a depleted WR corp, yet found Crabs who had his best day as a 49er (8 receptions for 172 yards and 2 tds), and is finally emerging a #1 WR threat, while with Smith is a #2 at best.

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Don't read this for market advice

From the game before last:

The 49ers lost to the Seahawks 42-13 last night.

There are several reasons to not read too much into this one:

San Francisco was coming off a draining Monday night win against the Patriots in New England six days earlier

Seattle had more to play for from a playoff point of view

This meant more to Seattle in general — a rare national TV audience, at home, at night

But still, the game was further proof that the 49ers are basically the same team with Colin Kaepernick at QB than they were with Alex Smith as QB.

The fatal flaw in San Francisco's team under Smith was that they couldn't make enough big plays to dig out of an early deficit. They were toast if they went down 17-3, and they brought in Kaepernick in hopes that he could make the offense more dynamic.

Kaepernick has been successful, but as we wrote last week, he's been successful doing pretty much the same things that Smith did — handing off the ball to Frank Gore and making short passes.

He still hasn't led the 49ers back from a deficit in the fourth quarter, and after last night his per-game stats look more Smith-ian than they ever have. Here are their average stats as starters (excluding the Rams game where Smith got concussed and Kaepernick came in):

Kaepernick (4-2 record): 17.3/27.3, 222 yards, 1.6 total TDs, 8.1 yards per attempt

Smith (6-2 record): 18.1/26.1, 207 yards, 1.5 total TDs, 7.9 yards per attempt

San Francisco is also running the ball just as much as they were under Smith.

They benched Smith and started Kaepernick so they had a fighting chance if they went down 21-0 like they did last night. Obviously one game can't tell you everything about a player, but we're still waiting for evidence that Kaepernick is fundamentally different than the guy he replaced.

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Jaws flapping on Sando's blog about Kaep and the "Super Edge"

"Kaepernick is the reason I like the San Francisco 49ers to win it all," Jaworski wrote. "Between his arm strength and his foot speed, there is nothing the Niners' offense can't do. They've got the smashmouth ground game, and the quick-strike deep ball. He has shown good feel in the pocket and, like Griffin, looks to make the pass first and doesn't default to his legs at the first sign of pressure."

Jaworski is expecting the 49ers' coaching staff to have big plans for Kaepernick in the playoffs.

Not much insight or analysis in this. You could probably find something similar in one of Reacher Report's bazillion pigeon feeds of 49er articles written by 17 year olds with ADD. But since it's Jaws we might as well take a peek.
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My take on Kaep at this point. We've seen good, we've seen mediocre. Time will tell.

Personally I'm sort of getting tired of the "He's a Stud" after one game, "He's a Dud" after a bad game rollercoaster. Reminds me of a parable that someone told me of a long time ago:

There is a Chinese Proverb that goes something like this…

A farmer and his son had a beloved stallion who helped the family earn a living. One day, the horse ran away and their neighbors exclaimed, "Your horse ran away, what terrible luck!" The farmer replied, "Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see."

A few days later, the horse returned home, leading a few wild mares back to the farm as well. The neighbors shouted out, "Your horse has returned, and brought several horses home with him. What great luck!" The farmer replied, "Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see."

Later that week, the farmer's son was trying to break one of the mares and she threw him to the ground, breaking his leg. The villagers cried, "Your son broke his leg, what terrible luck!" The farmer replied, "Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see."

A few weeks later, soldiers from the national army marched through town, recruiting all the able-bodied boys for the army. They did not take the farmer's son, still recovering from his injury. Friends shouted, "Your boy is spared, what tremendous luck!" To which the farmer replied, "Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see."

(Hidden via spoiler in case people don't want to want to get "all metaphysical 'n stuff" :P

As a fan, I'm just hoping for the best.

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7 Starts:

62.3 completion percentage, 1,814 yards, ten touchdowns, and three interceptions. He added 415 yards and five more scores on the ground.

Dude sucks....
Lol :goodposting: i dont know how anyone can watch and not think he will be a star.
The Chachinator agrees. He looks better than one would hope for and the Chachinator believes his coaching staff will turn this "project" into a star. Very bright future with a real shot at a Super Bowl this year.
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My take on Kaep at this point. We've seen good, we've seen mediocre. Time will tell.Personally I'm sort of getting tired of the "He's a Stud" after one game, "He's a Dud" after a bad game rollercoaster. Reminds me of a parable that someone told me of a long time ago:

There is a Chinese Proverb that goes something like this… A farmer and his son had a beloved stallion who helped the family earn a living. One day, the horse ran away and their neighbors exclaimed, "Your horse ran away, what terrible luck!" The farmer replied, "Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see." A few days later, the horse returned home, leading a few wild mares back to the farm as well. The neighbors shouted out, "Your horse has returned, and brought several horses home with him. What great luck!" The farmer replied, "Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see." Later that week, the farmer's son was trying to break one of the mares and she threw him to the ground, breaking his leg. The villagers cried, "Your son broke his leg, what terrible luck!" The farmer replied, "Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see." A few weeks later, soldiers from the national army marched through town, recruiting all the able-bodied boys for the army. They did not take the farmer's son, still recovering from his injury. Friends shouted, "Your boy is spared, what tremendous luck!" To which the farmer replied, "Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see."

(Hidden via spoiler in case people don't want to want to get "all metaphysical 'n stuff" :PAs a fan, I'm just hoping for the best.

Hey, I like that "all metaphysical 'n stuff". Food for thought even without thinking about football. :thumbup:
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

I got a list of 49er fansites that you should check out. They are more your speed.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

I got a list of 49er fansites that you should check out. They are more your speed.
Ahh sorry Drummer, I realize this is a fantasy football forum. I'm not arguing Smith is the better fantasy QB ;). As a fan of the 49ers though, I honestly feel Smith gives us the better chance to win. He has a higher QBR, completion %, and oh yea what's that thing that's most important? Winning %. Would Alex Smith have lost us that game against the Rams? Doubt it. How many fumbles does Kaep have? 9? In 7 games? You're just upset because you know that the 49ers very well might lose on Saturday with your boy Kaep under center. Alex Smith already beat the Pack on the road. Doesn't mean Kaep won't be a great QB in the future, but it will mean that the Smith of 2011-2012 is a better QB than Kaep of 2012. No need to get all bitter when your boy can't get it done.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

I got a list of 49er fansites that you should check out. They are more your speed.
Ahh sorry Drummer, I realize this is a fantasy football forum. I'm not arguing Smith is the better fantasy QB ;). As a fan of the 49ers though, I honestly feel Smith gives us the better chance to win. He has a higher QBR, completion %, and oh yea what's that thing that's most important? Winning %. Would Alex Smith have lost us that game against the Rams? Doubt it. How many fumbles does Kaep have? 9? In 7 games? You're just upset because you know that the 49ers very well might lose on Saturday with your boy Kaep under center. Alex Smith already beat the Pack on the road. Doesn't mean Kaep won't be a great QB in the future, but it will mean that the Smith of 2011-2012 is a better QB than Kaep of 2012. No need to get all bitter when your boy can't get it done.
This is really horrid trolling.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

I got a list of 49er fansites that you should check out. They are more your speed.
Ahh sorry Drummer, I realize this is a fantasy football forum. I'm not arguing Smith is the better fantasy QB ;). As a fan of the 49ers though, I honestly feel Smith gives us the better chance to win. He has a higher QBR, completion %, and oh yea what's that thing that's most important? Winning %. Would Alex Smith have lost us that game against the Rams? Doubt it. How many fumbles does Kaep have? 9? In 7 games? You're just upset because you know that the 49ers very well might lose on Saturday with your boy Kaep under center. Alex Smith already beat the Pack on the road. Doesn't mean Kaep won't be a great QB in the future, but it will mean that the Smith of 2011-2012 is a better QB than Kaep of 2012. No need to get all bitter when your boy can't get it done.
This is really horrid trolling.
Says the guy who essentially called me stupid, but can't find a way around my argument?
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

I got a list of 49er fansites that you should check out. They are more your speed.
Ahh sorry Drummer, I realize this is a fantasy football forum. I'm not arguing Smith is the better fantasy QB ;). As a fan of the 49ers though, I honestly feel Smith gives us the better chance to win. He has a higher QBR, completion %, and oh yea what's that thing that's most important? Winning %.

Would Alex Smith have lost us that game against the Rams? Doubt it. How many fumbles does Kaep have? 9? In 7 games?

You're just upset because you know that the 49ers very well might lose on Saturday with your boy Kaep under center. Alex Smith already beat the Pack on the road. Doesn't mean Kaep won't be a great QB in the future, but it will mean that the Smith of 2011-2012 is a better QB than Kaep of 2012. No need to get all bitter when your boy can't get it done.

This is really horrid trolling.
Says the guy who essentially called me stupid, but can't find a way around my argument?
I'm not calling you stupid. Your argument speaks for itself.

If you want to count winning percentage, then you need to use 2005 to 2012 for Smith. Oh wait, that kinda blows things up for you a bit now.

You're better off using your argument against Jets fans who might want Smith when he is traded or released after this season. Then you can compare both Smith and Sanchez's post-season records!

Edited by drummer
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Norcal believes Justin Beiber really deserves a Grammy nomination.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
That's ridiculous. People made excuses for Alex longer than any other QB in history. And when he won last year it was clear that the defense and running game paved the way. Smith beat GB in week 1 following that formula - it's hardly conclusive proof that Alex is better than Kaepernick if the defense gives out on Kaepernick this weekend and SF loses.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?

Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.

ETA: I was using Smith's 2011 season, his first with Harbaugh. Why? Here is why:

2006 and 2011 are the only 2 full 16 game seasons Smith has played, thus making stats relevant.

Edited by drummer
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
That's ridiculous. People made excuses for Alex longer than any other QB in history. And when he won last year it was clear that the defense and running game paved the way. Smith beat GB in week 1 following that formula - it's hardly conclusive proof that Alex is better than Kaepernick if the defense gives out on Kaepernick this weekend and SF loses.
Yea, Alex Smith had nothing to do with that playoff win against the saints. He only had all the touchdowns. He was pretty pathetic setting the NFL record for completion % in game this year too.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?

Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.

ETA: I was using Smith's 2011 season, his first with Harbaugh. Why? Here is why:

2006 and 2011 are the only 2 full 16 game seasons Smith has played, thus making stats relevant.

My mistake. I'll own up to mine. At least I know my addition and subtraction though.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?

Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.

ETA: I was using Smith's 2011 season, his first with Harbaugh. Why? Here is why:

2006 and 2011 are the only 2 full 16 game seasons Smith has played, thus making stats relevant.

Is 7 Ints a lot? I was under the impression it was well below league average. Not sure about this but didn't he set or come close to setting the record for most passes without an INT?
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?

Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.

ETA: I was using Smith's 2011 season, his first with Harbaugh. Why? Here is why:

2006 and 2011 are the only 2 full 16 game seasons Smith has played, thus making stats relevant.

Is 7 Ints a lot? I was under the impression it was well below league average. Not sure about this but didn't he set or come close to setting the record for most passes without an INT?
Passes without an INT should also weigh passing yardage and 3rd down/RZ percentages, all of which the 49er passing game with Smith was poor.

If we went back to Smith's 2011 season as far as passing yardage, he is right in the middle of the pack with Tarvaris Jackson right behind him. Again, if you're gonna use stats like QBR or whatever you can want to use, it's best to use stats in a single 16 game season, not aggregate them over a a period of game 7 of last season to game 5 of the next. That's cherry picking stats. Smith has only started 9 games this season, so to use any stats to compare him to Kaep is kinda whack, because the season doesn't end at 9 games. I've already posted stats, basic stats between them in this thread already.

Of course it's nice to say that Smith hasn't thrown an INT over a period of games, but he wasn't exactly lighting the field up. The reason you go by a the start of the new season as opposed to a period of games in the variable of the off-season, new wrinkles in the offense, new players, etc. Bottom line is there was enough there for Harbaugh to make a switch at QB, and it isn't like that was not in Harbaugh's mind in the first place. They did go after Peyton Manning even though Smith was Harbaugh's caddie at Pebble. Harbaugh's offense has a higher ceiling than Smith can provide. Andrew Luck is already better than Smith in the NFL. He can make his team better with his arm and play. Smith needs everything perfect around him to be effective. A lot of QBs do, but that would make a case for Sanchez as well.

Edited by drummer
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?

Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.

ETA: I was using Smith's 2011 season, his first with Harbaugh. Why? Here is why:

2006 and 2011 are the only 2 full 16 game seasons Smith has played, thus making stats relevant.

Is 7 Ints a lot? I was under the impression it was well below league average. Not sure about this but didn't he set or come close to setting the record for most passes without an INT?
Passes without an INT should also weigh passing yardage and 3rd down/RZ percentages, all of which the 49er passing game with Smith was poor.

If we went back to Smith's 2011 season as far as passing yardage, he is right in the middle of the pack with Tarvaris Jackson right behind him. Again, if you're gonna use stats like QBR or whatever you can want to use, it's best to use stats in a single 16 game season, not aggregate them over a a period of game 7 of last season to game 5 of the next. That's cherry picking stats. Smith has only started 9 games this season, so to use any stats to compare him to Kaep is kinda whack, because the season doesn't end at 9 games. I've already posted stats, basic stats between them in this thread already.

Of course it's nice to say that Smith hasn't thrown an INT over a period of games, but he wasn't exactly lighting the field up. The reason you go by a the start of the new season as opposed to a period of games in the variable of the off-season, new wrinkles in the offense, new players, etc. Bottom line is there was enough there for Harbaugh to make a switch at QB, and it isn't like that was not in Harbaugh's mind in the first place. They did go after Peyton Manning even though Smith was Harbaugh's caddie at Pebble. Harbaugh's offense has a higher ceiling than Smith can provide. Andrew Luck is already better than Smith in the NFL. He can make his team better with his arm and play. Smith needs everything perfect around him to be effective. A lot of QBs do, but that would make a case for Sanchez as well.

Is andrew luck not better than CK?? I'd trade CK for Luck or Tannehill (in real football) long term. You showing just how dirty harbaugh did smith doesn't prove anything. I already knew he was a total fraud. If they lose against the packers i would contend they should've made the switch over the offseason. Would have had legitimacy if smith didn't get it done. Wouldn't have need to have happened if he did. Now we'll never know.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win. Under Jim Harbaugh2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex SmithDefeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex SmithSo, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
That's ridiculous. People made excuses for Alex longer than any other QB in history. And when he won last year it was clear that the defense and running game paved the way. Smith beat GB in week 1 following that formula - it's hardly conclusive proof that Alex is better than Kaepernick if the defense gives out on Kaepernick this weekend and SF loses.
Yea, Alex Smith had nothing to do with that playoff win against the saints. He only had all the touchdowns. He was pretty pathetic setting the NFL record for completion % in game this year too.
Kaepernick in NE this year was more impressive than smith at home against NO. And that was smiths best game in his entire career. Kaepernick had 7 starts.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?

Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.

ETA: I was using Smith's 2011 season, his first with Harbaugh. Why? Here is why:

2006 and 2011 are the only 2 full 16 game seasons Smith has played, thus making stats relevant.

Is 7 Ints a lot? I was under the impression it was well below league average. Not sure about this but didn't he set or come close to setting the record for most passes without an INT?
Passes without an INT should also weigh passing yardage and 3rd down/RZ percentages, all of which the 49er passing game with Smith was poor.

If we went back to Smith's 2011 season as far as passing yardage, he is right in the middle of the pack with Tarvaris Jackson right behind him. Again, if you're gonna use stats like QBR or whatever you can want to use, it's best to use stats in a single 16 game season, not aggregate them over a a period of game 7 of last season to game 5 of the next. That's cherry picking stats. Smith has only started 9 games this season, so to use any stats to compare him to Kaep is kinda whack, because the season doesn't end at 9 games. I've already posted stats, basic stats between them in this thread already.

Of course it's nice to say that Smith hasn't thrown an INT over a period of games, but he wasn't exactly lighting the field up. The reason you go by a the start of the new season as opposed to a period of games in the variable of the off-season, new wrinkles in the offense, new players, etc. Bottom line is there was enough there for Harbaugh to make a switch at QB, and it isn't like that was not in Harbaugh's mind in the first place. They did go after Peyton Manning even though Smith was Harbaugh's caddie at Pebble. Harbaugh's offense has a higher ceiling than Smith can provide. Andrew Luck is already better than Smith in the NFL. He can make his team better with his arm and play. Smith needs everything perfect around him to be effective. A lot of QBs do, but that would make a case for Sanchez as well.

Is andrew luck not better than CK?? I'd trade CK for Luck or Tannehill (in real football) long term. You showing just how dirty harbaugh did smith doesn't prove anything. I already knew he was a total fraud. If they lose against the packers i would contend they should've made the switch over the offseason. Would have had legitimacy if smith didn't get it done. Wouldn't have need to have happened if he did. Now we'll never know.
You're calling Harbaugh a total fraud for doing what the other 2 head coaches did with Smith: bench him. If Bill Walsh himself benched Smith, Alex fans would call him a total fraud. If the 49ers had Andrew Luck this team be set without a whole lot of players they have now like Vernon Davis and Patrick Willis. If CIN hadn't grabbed Andy Dalton the 49ers would have drafted him instead of Kaep, and he would had been starting last season. If Peyton Manning had signed with the 49ers this argument and thread wouldn't exist.

Either way, this team isn't about Alex Smith, and it never was. Harbaugh wasn't hired to fix him and be tied to the hip with Smith. He was hired to change the culture of the team and win games doing so. He wasn't expected to do it this fast, but he did. He has won games with both Smith and Kaep. He could probably win a game with Tolzien. I dunno if he can without Justin Smith, who Nolan signed.

I dunno if you're just trolling here, but this is something everyone who reads this should realize: Smith chose to stay in San Francisco twice these past 2 seasons. He had his chance to leave before Harbaugh signed on, had his chance last season to leave but didn't find any real good offers for him, and now will have one more chance to leave again after this season. If that doesn't tell you the commitment or lack of from the Organization to Smith, I dunno what brand of Kool-Aid you have been mainlining. Smith didn't a raw deal from anybody. He got his fair market deal for what he is worth, and the 49ers have been very generous to him overall. But even they know this is a QB driven league, and Harbaugh's job - because he is known as a QB guru - is to find the next great 49er QB.

It just isn't Alex Smith.

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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?

Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.

ETA: I was using Smith's 2011 season, his first with Harbaugh. Why? Here is why:

2006 and 2011 are the only 2 full 16 game seasons Smith has played, thus making stats relevant.

Is 7 Ints a lot? I was under the impression it was well below league average. Not sure about this but didn't he set or come close to setting the record for most passes without an INT?
Passes without an INT should also weigh passing yardage and 3rd down/RZ percentages, all of which the 49er passing game with Smith was poor.

If we went back to Smith's 2011 season as far as passing yardage, he is right in the middle of the pack with Tarvaris Jackson right behind him. Again, if you're gonna use stats like QBR or whatever you can want to use, it's best to use stats in a single 16 game season, not aggregate them over a a period of game 7 of last season to game 5 of the next. That's cherry picking stats. Smith has only started 9 games this season, so to use any stats to compare him to Kaep is kinda whack, because the season doesn't end at 9 games. I've already posted stats, basic stats between them in this thread already.

Of course it's nice to say that Smith hasn't thrown an INT over a period of games, but he wasn't exactly lighting the field up. The reason you go by a the start of the new season as opposed to a period of games in the variable of the off-season, new wrinkles in the offense, new players, etc. Bottom line is there was enough there for Harbaugh to make a switch at QB, and it isn't like that was not in Harbaugh's mind in the first place. They did go after Peyton Manning even though Smith was Harbaugh's caddie at Pebble. Harbaugh's offense has a higher ceiling than Smith can provide. Andrew Luck is already better than Smith in the NFL. He can make his team better with his arm and play. Smith needs everything perfect around him to be effective. A lot of QBs do, but that would make a case for Sanchez as well.

Is andrew luck not better than CK?? I'd trade CK for Luck or Tannehill (in real football) long term. You showing just how dirty harbaugh did smith doesn't prove anything. I already knew he was a total fraud. If they lose against the packers i would contend they should've made the switch over the offseason. Would have had legitimacy if smith didn't get it done. Wouldn't have need to have happened if he did. Now we'll never know.
You're crazy if you'd trade Kaep for Tannehill in NFL terms. I'd love to hear your reasoning.
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Stats are wonderful, but at the end of the day you're supposed to win.

Under Jim Harbaugh

2011-NFC Championship Game quarterbacked by Alex Smith

Defeat Green Bay Packers in Lambeau in Week 1 of 2012 Regular Season quarterbacked by Alex Smith

So, if Kaepernick can't do it then how is he better than Smith? Smith is terrible right drummer? Then if we lose to GB, Kaep couldn't even do what Smith did this/last year.

Hint: there is more to winning a given game than the quarterback play.
Funny, no one seemed to mention that the first 6 years of Alex Smith's career. I'm hearing a lot of excuses for kaep. That's fine. You can say the 49ers won in spite of smith and lost in spite of kaepernick all you want, it won't change the two most important words of this sentence.
Yeah, if you're a Smith fan, I think the last thing you want to mention is his QB play before Harbaugh.

Even under Harbaugh, in an era with Andrew Luck surpassing Cam Newton's rookie record of last season, Smith's is just really 9 ints less of his 2006 season.

He had 16 INTs, most in his career, in 2006. 9 less than that is 7...he's had 5 this year. Was his qbr 3rd in the league in 2006?
Was ESPN's QBR metric used in 2006? Or are you talking passer rating that doesn't use sacks in their data?

Just a thought: if you're gonna use stats, know them first.

ETA: I was using Smith's 2011 season, his first with Harbaugh. Why? Here is why:

2006 and 2011 are the only 2 full 16 game seasons Smith has played, thus making stats relevant.

Is 7 Ints a lot? I was under the impression it was well below league average. Not sure about this but didn't he set or come close to setting the record for most passes without an INT?
Passes without an INT should also weigh passing yardage and 3rd down/RZ percentages, all of which the 49er passing game with Smith was poor.

If we went back to Smith's 2011 season as far as passing yardage, he is right in the middle of the pack with Tarvaris Jackson right behind him. Again, if you're gonna use stats like QBR or whatever you can want to use, it's best to use stats in a single 16 game season, not aggregate them over a a period of game 7 of last season to game 5 of the next. That's cherry picking stats. Smith has only started 9 games this season, so to use any stats to compare him to Kaep is kinda whack, because the season doesn't end at 9 games. I've already posted stats, basic stats between them in this thread already.

Of course it's nice to say that Smith hasn't thrown an INT over a period of games, but he wasn't exactly lighting the field up. The reason you go by a the start of the new season as opposed to a period of games in the variable of the off-season, new wrinkles in the offense, new players, etc. Bottom line is there was enough there for Harbaugh to make a switch at QB, and it isn't like that was not in Harbaugh's mind in the first place. They did go after Peyton Manning even though Smith was Harbaugh's caddie at Pebble. Harbaugh's offense has a higher ceiling than Smith can provide. Andrew Luck is already better than Smith in the NFL. He can make his team better with his arm and play. Smith needs everything perfect around him to be effective. A lot of QBs do, but that would make a case for Sanchez as well.

Is andrew luck not better than CK?? I'd trade CK for Luck or Tannehill (in real football) long term. You showing just how dirty harbaugh did smith doesn't prove anything. I already knew he was a total fraud. If they lose against the packers i would contend they should've made the switch over the offseason. Would have had legitimacy if smith didn't get it done. Wouldn't have need to have happened if he did. Now we'll never know.
You're crazy if you'd trade Kaep for Tannehill in NFL terms. I'd love to hear your reasoning.
Better prospect.

Tannehill

-Doesn't have perfect mechanics, but CK's godawful windup makes him look wayyy better.

-Way better pocket presence

-Just as good as CK throwing on the run

-Throws a better ball, CK throws a lot of woblers

-Comparable arm strength, although CK throws with more velocity

-Can actually make a touch throw. Did you see CK's attempt at a fade to Moss? A hs kid could have done better.

Kaepernick

-More athletic, faster

-Throws harder

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Better prospect. Tannehill-Doesn't have perfect mechanics, but CK's godawful windup makes him look wayyy better.-Way better pocket presence-Just as good as CK throwing on the run-Throws a better ball, CK throws a lot of woblers-Comparable arm strength, although CK throws with more velocity -Can actually make a touch throw. Did you see CK's attempt at a fade to Moss? A hs kid could have done better.Kaepernick-More athletic, faster-Throws harder

Don't need to call you stupid with a post like this one.
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